Auticus

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Auticus last won the day on June 19

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418 Celestant-Prime

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About Auticus

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    Dracothian Guard
  • Birthday 05/07/1977

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  1. Most of the other factors are minimal at best. Unless X Unit at 200 points with 20 shooting dice has some absurd ability like they get to regenerate their whole unit per turn or something, there is no question what people are going to take. The proof is in the tournament scene and what is as common as water. Which unfortunately oozes into the casual games and non-tournament games for many places.
  2. The units are undercosted because they push out obscene amount of dice at an extreme discount. If they couldn't target characters freely I still think they would be undercosted because they could just target whatever else and still push out more dice than they should be for their cost at other targets. They can still erase other units... with the tactical difficulty of you or I puzzling out how to draw breath. If they could not shoot while engaged, that would make their obscene dice output more inline with their cost because you would have a counter-play option to shut them down. Otherwise, they either need raised in price by about 20% at the very least or they need to have their dice output brought inline with other units that cost similar. To me if I want to be a WAAC TFG ... the math is elementary. Unit X costs 200 points and puts out 20 shooting dice. Unit WAAC costs 200 points and puts out 60 shooting dice. Which one will I min/max on?
  3. Having spreadsheet 75% of 40k 8th like i did with AOS with Azyr Comp... my finding is that about 80% of 40k 8th is within range of itself (balanced), and there are 10% overcost units and 10% undercost units. This number is very close to AOS findings as well (right now per my data 78% of AOS models are balanced with each other, 12% are overcost and 8% are undercost). What that means to me is overall the game is fine, but the extreme competitive players will latch on to the undercost units and transform the meta to be primarily about defeating those... the same as how AOS is plagued with kunnin rukk and skyfires and judicator spam.
  4. Excellent observation Our opinions will be heavily slanted by our own personal experiences and meta. In my meta... AOS is entirely about shooting and right now 40k is all about melee combat (game's only been out a week so i'm sure that will change as the min/max players figure out what is tournament worthy and then start bringing that).
  5. However... if in AOS most of the units are good in combat, but units like kunnin rukk, skyfires, and judicators are so good that the meta always includes these elements, the question is posed ... is AOS primarily about shooting? We can on one hand say that most of AOS units are hand to hand specialists, so therefore no. We can also say but the majority of armies that players field are heavy shooting because the busted units are so busted that they are auto takes... so yes.
  6. Having played a bit of the new 40k, I'd dispute that shooting is the primary mechanism. The combat armies being able to alpha strike 1st turn are quite frankly: nasty.
  7. That the rules aren't extremely complicated.
  8. I absolutely agree. They do know what they are doing yes.
  9. The thing is when we try to say players bear responsibility ... people have tried to say that for several decades. It never has worked.
  10. Well yes. Gamers are gamers. They are bred to game the system.
  11. Thats true and a driving issue that has been around forever. Players buy what will dominate tournaments and then they dont' want to buy anymore, so they want to use those same lists in softer events as well. Which I find really really sucks for those not wanting to play against tournament lists in an event listed as a casual event.
  12. The guys in my campaign group pretty much universally despise double turns. The tournament players in my group don't give strong opinions on it... but build their list to take advantage of it (and are for the most part running the rukk, skyfires, etc). In my experience, because lists I face are always extreme, he who gets the double turn first often wins.
  13. I have in the past rallied against paper/rock/scissors because players always tend to go extreme, bringing all Rock for example. But the more I think about it, thats because GW's "paper/rock/scissors" is to create a rock that not only annihilates scissors, but can shrug off paper as well.
  14. I agree fully. AOS is very flat and predictable right now.
  15. Interested to know... does your local player-base have a problem differentiating between a casual/narrative event and a competitive event? Do you have competitive tournament guys that fight to the death to bring tournament powered lists to your casual nights? Do you have narrative players going to your competitive tournaments and complain about OP lists being present?