Celestant on Drac Mortal Wounds

[mDaro]

My Celestant on the Dracoth has a Lightening Hammer. On a roll of six it does 2 mortal wounds. If I give him the Hammer of Might from the Blessed Weapon list do the mortal wounds double to four if I roll a six to hit with it?

[Turragor]

If you roll a 6 you do 2 mortal wounds and that hit continues to roll to wound as normal.

If that wound roll is 6 and its not saved the normal 2 damage becomes 4 from Hammer of might.

You also get a bonus attack with blessed weapons. You have to roll again.

If the bonus attack hits on a 6 you'd have another 2 mortal wounds.

If that wound wounds on a 6 and it's not saved you do 4 normal weapon damage.

Am I explaining that right?

Tldr - Hammer of might affects the weapon's damage (not the ability associated with it). Blessed weapons triggers a normal (and full) attack again.

There can be no debate over the mortal wounds in this case as their source is 6s to hit. Hammer of might is double on 6s to wound (stage after the mws strike).

[AdamR]

Hammer of Might does double damage on a to wound roll of 6. My gut feeling is that it would only affect the regular damage but I could see it being argued either way. 

Sorry that's absolutely no help!

[mDaro]

Hammer of Might isn't a prayer. It's an artifact. 

[mDaro]

1 hour ago, Turragor said:

If you roll a 6 you do 2 mortal wounds and that hit continues to roll to wound as normal.

If that wound roll is 6 and its not saved the normal 2 damage becomes 4 from Hammer of might.

You also get a bonus attack with blessed weapons. You have to roll again.

If the bonus attack hits on a 6 you'd have another 2 mortal wounds.

If that wound wounds on a 6 and it's not saved you do 4 normal weapon damage.

Am I explaining that right?

Tldr - Hammer of might affects the weapon's damage (not the ability associated with it). Blessed weapons triggers a normal (and full) attack again.

There can be no debate over the mortal wounds in this case as their source is 6s to hit. Hammer of might is double on 6s to wound (stage after the mws strike).

That sounds right! Thank you. 

[Nico]

Hammer of Might is on Wound Rolls, not hit rolls.

Turning to the wider issue.

In my view, GW don't distinguish wounds and mortal wounds very strictly (less strictly than I thought originally), such that "Damage" encompasses both wounds and mortal wounds. Particular examples are the writer of the DoT book giving an example of where he would use Destiny Dice to change a "Damage roll" in relation to a spell.

Thus you could make a good argument that it would double the mortal wounds (if the wording covered it).

I should add that this is somewhat controversial. We'll see how this is dealt with in an FAQ. From our experience at the South London Legion in the time since the DoT book came out, using destiny dice for mortal wounds doesn't seem overpowered (because you get 1.5 sixes and 1.5 fives on average and often need to use the fives for things like casting rolls of 9 for Pink Fire). This is particularly the case when compared to self-healing Husktusks (Thundertusks).  

[Turragor]

1 hour ago, Nico said:

Hammer of Might is on Wound Rolls, not hit rolls.

Turning to the wider issue.

In my view, GW don't distinguish wounds and mortal wounds very strictly (less strictly than I thought originally), such that "Damage" encompasses both wounds and mortal wounds. Particular examples are the writer of the DoT book giving an example of where he would use Destiny Dice to change a "Damage roll" in relation to a spell.

Thus you could make a good argument that it would double the mortal wounds (if the wording covered it).

I should add that this is somewhat controversial. We'll see how this is dealt with in an FAQ. From our experience at the South London Legion in the time since the DoT book came out, using destiny dice for mortal wounds doesn't seem overpowered (because you get 1.5 sixes and 1.5 fives on average and often need to use the fives for things like casting rolls of 9 for Pink Fire). This is particularly the case when compared to self-healing Husktusks (Thundertusks).  

I wouldnt even say its mortal wounds that are confusing. People just focus on them as they're so important at the moment.

I'd say it is multipliers that GW need to take a wee look at. A rule for any kind of multiplier is pretty easy to implement - but hard to fully test!

If an external source (item, battalion bonus or prayer or all 3!) interacts with a roll (hits, wounds, saves, damage, etc) on a unit that has another ability connected to the same roll via the warscroll.

The Judicator shockbolt bow (d6 wound rolls on a hit) with Vanguard Wing battalion bonus (6 to hit "make two wound rolls rather than one") and the relictor prayer Blessed Weapons (6s to hit generate another attack) is another good example.

I think destruction has a few explody attack classics too.

[Nico]

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The Judicator shockbolt bow (d6 wound rolls on a hit) with Vanguard Wing battalion bonus (6 to hit "make two wound rolls rather than one") and the relictor prayer Blessed Weapons (6s to hit generate another attack) is another good example.

Good points.

This one has been floating around in my mind as well.

You would get the extra attack from Blessed Weapons (as that doesn't clash with the other rule - it's just a good combo).

Whether you get 2 x D6 wound rolls or not is less clear. Purposively you probably do.

[Turragor]

6 hours ago, Nico said:

Whether you get 2 x D6 wound rolls or not is less clear. Purposively you probably do.

I agree blessed weapons gives you another d6 (on successful hit).

For some reason my brain translates the vanguard bonus to d6+1.

It's not clear either way though - I just don't want to think about the potential list of 20 judicators with 4 shockbolts in a vanguard wing battalion sitting near damned terrain receving blessed weapons with an Azyros near the target.

It is quite the setup so should be rewarded.

But is it worth:

4 d6  wound rolls on a 4, 5 or 6 (the prime)

12 d6 wounds rolls on a 5 or 6 (other shockbolt bows)

64 wound rolls on a 5 or 6 for the other 16 models.

?

... I think that's right.

All 3+ to wound. -1 rend.  24 inch range.

You could get used to that rain of arrows.

I think you could probably get 2 battalions with 15 juds each in. So 30 instead of 20. Yeesh!

Edit/ No I think you can get 25 only:

Quote

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals

Knight Azyros (80)
Lord Relictor (80)
- General
- Trait: Staunch Defender - Stormcast Eternals
- Artefact: Mirrorshield
- Prayer: Bless Weapons
Lord Relictor (80)
- Artefact: Mirrorshield
- Prayer: Bless Weapons
Knight Azyros (80)
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
15 x Judicators (480)
- Skybolt Bows
- 3x Shockbolt Bow
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
10 x Judicators (320)
- Skybolt Bows
- 2x Shockbolt Bow
3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (80)
- 2x Stormsurge Trident
3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (80)
- 1x Stormsurge Trident
3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (80)
- 1x Stormsurge Trident
3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (80)
- 1x Stormsurge Trident
3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (80)
- 1x Stormsurge Trident
3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (80)
- 1x Stormsurge Trident
Vanguard Wing (100)
Vanguard Wing (100)

Total: 2000/2000

 

 

[Turragor]

That's disgusting haha! I think I've authored a new SC winning list. Someone with the money and time to paint it work away.

[Nico]

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For some reason my brain translates the vanguard bonus to d6+1.

Yeah - I think that makes more sense. Still very good.

[Marc Wilson]

@NicoHow are you ruling this at #Calling?

(Looks on shelf, sees all models listed above...) 

[Nico]

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@NicoHow are you ruling this at #Calling?

D6+1.

I wonder if you'll come up against the all Plaguebearers, Verminlord Deceiver and Cunning Deceiver list of joy!