Klamm

I don't *feel* cheated in the sense I'm outraged there's a Lumineth update so soon (or Slaanesh, which I actually collect). My silly nerd brain is excited about seeing the cool new stuff. What can I say, I have warhammer brain. But yeah, chaos of covid scheduling aside, splitting the releases like this tactically sound. Short announcement-to-release turnover allows hype to build but not dissipate. Under-informing customers about things being released 6 months from now is a good way to get people to spend now and 6 months from now. So I guess the question is, what does 'cheated' mean here? A company under-informing its customers because it would be profitable? Okay. The way this discussion usually goes, lines are drawn between GW defenders and GW cynics, but always in relation to the customer. Because there is a group who ARE being cheated (or to use the economic term, exploited), the employees. GW is one of the few retail stores to have BENEFITED from the pandemic. They've gone from a revenue of £118 million in 2016 to 269 million in 2020, more than doubling their profits in 4 years. Is this value their employees have added compensated? Well obviously no. Then how about a real wage rise for GW employees? No. There was a company-wide bonus in 2019 (cool, there's a reason why unions don't fight for bonuses). GW even made a show of paying back its furlough cash to the UK treasury as a PR thing. They clearly have money to burn, maybe they should invest in their variable capital. Anyway, feel what you wanna feel about the lumineth split release, I get both the "well that's scummy" side and the "WAHOO NEW 'ROO" side. But if we're throwing around 'cheated' let's remember employees have it worse than customers.

She does have some similar stormcast armour stylings, especially the shoulder pads, but a lot more cloth and 'mortal' clothing than we've ever seen, even on vanguard chamber 'cast. Judging by the art, it's pretty likely this silhouette goes with her. Again, it's a little more lithe than we expect from a Stormcast but I think it's a 40mm base so maybe? If she is reforged then that'll be a very new thing: a Stormcast wearing civilian clothing under her armour. As for the big figure on the right of the hero shot in the teaser, I really really really hope for an Ogor, but it's a little hard to judge. The proportions are promising, the head is sitting where we'd expect in relation to the shoulders (orruks usually are more hunched). But there's a bit of the old orky bow-legged posing going. Still, art isn't an exact representation of the model. The armour is most interesting, resembling nothing like the armour we get with any other orruks or ogors. However, ogors are famously quick to adopt the culture around them, so this might be a local ogor mercenary wearing the apparel of this city. But it's also a little... chaosy. The last Warhammer Quest had a darkoath cheftain, so it could be something slaves to darkness. I covered my bases with that lol, could be this, could be that OKAY FINE IT'S AN OGOR 150%

Soulblight release makes sense, it was the one notable faction which had its own allegiance but no book or models to go along with it. That new years teaser with the more traditional skeleton and pistol zombie had me wondering whether it was gonna be a Cities of Nagash sort of deal, but I guess not. Or hey, maybe both? Though it would be weird to give spooky ghosts a whole book to themselves while bunching Vampires, Zombies and Skellies together.

I've got some proxies I'm pretty happy with based on Namarti Reavers, though unfortunately the base size doesn't match so might not be an ideal solution. I mixed em with Tree Rev and Hellstrider bits. Actually, Hellstriders have been a goldmine for conversion bits in general. I've used the shields as gutplates for my SlaanOgors.

Wow, looks great. That would take me two years. A bit of a pity it's a named character, it means all the big mortal heroes (Glutos, Sigvald) are unique. It's an issue the Nurgle range has as well. But still, a great centrepiece. The elite Painbringer guy with the barded sword is amazing, I bet people will proxy him as a Lord of Pain.

On a completely different note, what are thoughts on the vaguely Persian motiff of the new minis? I think the aesthetic works really well, but there's some unintended orientalism that hampers my full enjoyment. I'm not just throwing that term around, Edward Said's concept is specifically that of the Asiatic Orient being construed as wilder, sexually deviant, decadent yet savage compared to the civilising influence of the Occident (the colonising west). Like, the cultural pastiche of eastern influences in the Cypher Lords or Scions of the Flame is great, but it's kinda weird how this is mostly limited to chaos. Set against the Germanic aesthetic of the old freeguild range, you're getting this accidental Order = Occident and Chaos = Orient vibe. Don't jump down my throat, I'm not saying anyone's wrong to like them (and anyway, *I* really like them). Probably the thing that would go a long way to fixing that would be mixing up the cultural influences of Freeguild models when they get updated. That's gonna happen anyway since GW has moved away from the old world approach of committing to a single cultural archetype (like Bretonnians or Tomb Kings). It's kinda like with Daughters of Khaine, it would be very weird if the only female representation in the game was 'bloodthirsty bikini babes'. But in the last couple years GW has released many women minis which aren't just that. The issue wasn't so much with DoK but the context that surrounded them. Same thing with the new Slaanesh models. Love the non-European aesthetic, would love it even more if it wasn't reserved just for chaos cultists.

I don't own the chaos Warcry book, but I assume people would have shared if there was an alternate load out for blissbarb seekers. Warcry seems to encompass all the 'small stuff', I think that only leaves an exalted seeker mounted hero as a possibility (not counting the large palanquin that's definitely confirmed). Again, just the fact we're getting slaanesh mortals next year has surpassed my hopes, but I do think a large, unnamed mortal hero would round out the range nicely. An updated seeker lord would be cool, though I'd also be content if that big war altar is/has a generic hero option. Special characters give a range personality but (and I have this issue with the Nurgle range) a lack of comparable generic ones creates a walled garden. All the important and powerful beings have had their personalities decided and you're left with the lowly heroes to customise.

This slaanesh release is great for all chaos fans coz it overturns the annoying pattern that was being established. Khorne launched at the start of AoS with a fantastic range of mortals, some of which debuted in the end times. Then Tzeentch came along and while the mortal range was smaller, it was a pretty fair balance of new daemons and mortals (depending on if you count tzaangors in the latter). Next, the maggotkin book dropped, and for all the praise heaped on the great unclean one and the various characterful heralds, it was pretty stingy when it came to mortals. The Nurgle mortal range is now the least satisfying, it's packed with absurd quantities of named characters (why didn't they make one of the maggoth builds a generic hero???) but after that it's basically just blight kings, mounted blight kings and hero blight kings. For a benevolent god of alchemists, gardeners and priests, it's kinda weird that all we see are jacked elite warriors. Finally, we had 2019's hedonites of Slaanesh that left mortal players like me cold. Sure, the KoS and Syll'eske were great, but this time we got a net NEGATIVE mortals (no new kits while old sigvald and mounted lord were squatted). I was worried that warcry was gonna be 'it' for chaos mortals. Not that's I don't like the warbands, just scratches a different itch. Slaanesh getting love bodes well for Tzeentch and Nurgle.

Same, though I predicted the games workshop Christmas video would be less surprising than the Kevin Spacey Christmas video. So maybe not THAT warm and fuzzy.

Wahoo, I got my niche wish: slaangors are 40mm base 3 model units. That ogor gluttons box is gonna be converted into hedogors! Hellstrider shields for gutplates, but I'm not sure where I'll find correct sized crab claws apart from on slaangors and I'd rather not buy the box just for those bits. The exalted seekers look brill, keeping the excellent design of the current range but giving them more dynamism. And of course the battletome cover has a sneak peak for the big war platform, which appears to have more architecture stuff going on than the STD warshrine. I assume it's not the newborn, though could be wrong. A lot of people might be disappointed that it's out in February but as someone with a whole shelf of unfinished slaanesh conversions... I'm grateful for the extra time.

Nice conversion! You'll get some good adornment spares from the keeper kit. I grabbed a pack of gems from greenstuff world to Slaaneshi-ify my various conversions. Depends what facet of slaanesh you want to focus on, I like the gleam but sounds like you want the mutilations. The hellstrider kit might be a good addition. Not only can the shields be used for armour plating but I notice your bull is missing a tail and the tendrils of hellstrider whips might be perfect. I've considered doing elk head slaanesh bullgors, horse heads would work nicely, like a Slaaneshi Sorry to Bother You. I was gonna use crypt horrors for the base because they're nicer sculpts and a bit lither but perhaps it's not your bag. Also, if you do get a ghorgon, you can use the spares from the keeper of secrets to kitbash a more bestial greater Daemon. Good luck with your project!

Leasbelchers were in the original ogor release too, look at the 6th edition army book. Ogres (that is, the gluttons, ironguts and leasbelchers) are probably THE best of the 6th ed kits. They might be less detailed than today's miniatures, but they're large and brutal enough that it just looks like an aesthetic choice. The slightly static pose isn't an issue either, it communicates a lumbering gait. And even with the pose, they've got so many options bursting with personality. On top of all the options the base kits give you, they're compatible with the 8th ed mournfang and stonehorn bits, it's a kitbashers dream and GW won't create its like again. Being an ogor player I'd obviously love an update, but for yhetees and maneaters. Coz if I was gonna rank 15 year old plastic kits still in the game, ogors are like the S tier.

Yeah it was a weird pattern. Khorne came first, got a great range of mortals. Then came Tzeentch, which got an interesting mortal & beastmen range. The Nurgle book was much more Daemon focused, the blight lords were nice but that left nurgle mortals with just two very elite choices. Then Slaanesh, in which sigvald and the mounted lord were dropped and no new mortals came, was actually a net loss for mortal fans. The trend was less and less attention paid to mortals. Khorne got a lot, Tzeentch some, nurgle few and slaanesh none. The trend has been reversed! Hope that bodes well for nurgle and tzeentch players.

To me the obvious solution is a cities of sigmar starter. It's requested constantly, everyone wants to see freeguild get AoSified. I'd expect the approach to mirror how they did Slaves to Darkness: update old classics (chaos warriors and knights/freeguild guard and greatswords), add some weird new stuff (ironweld centerpieces) and keep the rest for a bloated but pleasingly diverse faction. In the fiction, it's up there with stormcast as protagonist faction. Since they can field stormcast as 1/4 of their army, a cities starter box could still include 1 or two SCE units. They could easily do a stormcast update within that release window, give em a new book and a few units but the bulk goes to cities and their opponent (Skaven would be cool). A freeguild and ironweld arsenal focused update (keeping the various elf and duardin factions we have already) would be a slam dunk. They could do units of freeguild guard that mix aelves, duardin and humans (like Warcry does). Something for everyone.

If the options are new battletome, no battletome and mortal-only battletome, I feel like the latter is least likely. Not since bloodbound in 2015 have GW seperated mortals and daemons, and they didn't do it in the tzeentch book this year either. I mentioned this somewhere so sorry if I'm repeating, but there's a lot of lore that has Slaanesh be an especially unified army. The recent slaanesh stories, such as Broken Realms lore or the Realm-Lords novel, have daemons and mortals together as the rule, not exception. Also you've got Syll'eske, a character whose story is bringing together daemons and mortals in an alliance. Then you have the twinsouls, who seem to be a less wholesome version of that same idea. There seems to be more lore about slaanesh D+M partnerships than some of the other gods. One other thing I haven't seen mentioned. The previous slaanesh allegiance was built around pretenders, seekers and invaders. These might remain mostly unchanged, but whatever slaanesh story we're about to get in broken realms might upset that. Will the newborn change the nature of seekers, who now have a true emmisary of their god? Will sigvald fit in as an arch pretender? Will those be their own thing, alongside syll'eske's host(6 allegiances would be thematic)? It seems like it's gonna be together or not at all.

Fair point @Enoby. I don't think such a quick battletome turnaround is unprecedented (it happened with Blades of Khorne) but you'd think they'd have unveiled a battletome cover or even hinted one was coming at this point, they've revealed most of the models. Then again, the allegiance rules have been FAQ-d to the point of it being in need of reprint.

I'm using namarti reivers as proxy slaanesh marauders, though I realised after already doing a fair few that marauders are on 25mms while the namarti are on 32s. The fact that makes them strictly worse I hope will make my opponents more forgiving of that ****** up

Wasn't the Slaanesh release originally planned for 2020 but covid threw the whole schedule? Hence the units getting revealed in the warcry book. Who knows how far in advance they plan marketing reveals, but I'd assume the Christmas preview would be something other than Slaanesh?

Death makes a good foil to chaos because Nagash's objective is very different, but it's still a specific goal you can contrast against Order factions. Of the destruction armies, only Gloomspite Gitz seem to have a specific objective (the everdank). Orruks, Ogors and Gargants are fairly reactive. Who cares about building civilisation or ruling the realms? They just wanna grill (especially ogors). It's how Destruction contrast Chaos in the same way Order contrasts Death. They share values in regards to civilisation vs lawlessness but diverge in terms of just wanting to flourish vs seeking dominion. Order wants civilisation so they can flourish, Death wants civilisation under Nagash's dominion, Chaos wants the dominion of their gods but without the order, and Destruction just wants to flourish in the disorder. It just means they are unsuited to being driving antagonists of the main story. Out of curiosity, would people prefer GW change orruks to have clear goals to take over the realms? I really hope we see them used more as foils. The orruks benefit from keeping everyone fighting, so I'd like to see Gordrakk take steps to undermine victories of the other GA's. The ogors, especially BCR, are the most relatable destruction faction coz they're survival orientated, so I'd like to see arcs where they make strategic or opportunistic decisions to back various GAs. It's okay that destruction aren't suited to being the main antagonists, like how Superhans wouldn't work as the main character of Peep Show. Hopefully that means we get Grotbag Scuttlers and updates to Orruks/Ogors while tying them in to the ongoing story in a fun way.

Yeah, that's along the lines of what I was thinking. A scale difference like that between skyports and ironclads.

Gut feeling, I do expect to see the AoS 3 box to have Cities of Sigmar as the protagonist faction. I don't think GW are deaf to how frequently it gets requested. Small teases about Sigvald or Sons of Behemat have paid off, and there's been a hell of a lot more teasing for sigmarite cogforts, which sound like a great centerpiece of an AoSified freeguild expansion. Plus, Free City rules mean they could still include a token stormcast presence within the starter set, updating that battletome alongside a meatier cities release. An Orruk opponent would be a nice thing for Destruction players - it's their turn after all - but I kinda doubt that. The two starter sets have embodied coherent chapters in the narrative of the setting (the realmgate wars and the soul wars) and destruction isn't well suited to being a narrative focal point. A lot of the charm is how reactive they are. I hope destruction gets love next year, I don't think it'll be in a starter. So I guess what happens in Broken Realms will decide the matchup. It could end up with two order factions going at it, who knows. I could see Beasts of Chaos or Skaven be in the starter. They're large, fan favourite ranges with some dated kits. And they both offer great opportunities for upping the creative ante (warped beasts or ramshackle steampunk contraptions).

That takes them from the smallest chaos god battletome to one of comparable size to the Khorne one. I can't see them splitting mortals and daemons. Earlier this year Tzeentch was updated and it continues to have both. GW continues to use Hedonites of Slaanesh as the faction name in warcom previews. Hell, there's lore stuff too, slaanesh daemons and mortals intermingle in all the recent fiction (the Realmlords novel and Broken Realms) and there's even a character, Syll'Esske, whose whole deal is uniting daemons and mortals.

Yeah I'm thinking 3 wounds is most likely but a) Iron Golems ogor breacher warscroll also has three wounds while all ogor units have at least four and b) we don't know if the slaangor are the same size as the Direchasm fella (as per the dankhold example), the blurry background models looked more big enough for a 50mm base.

Presumably all that's left to reveal is the big war platform thing and possibly a hero too big for warcry (maybe a new lord on steed?) Which is fine, I've been waiting for Slaanesh mortals for so long and this was still a happy surprise after last year's let down. I don't wanna be greedy (even if that would be very slaanesh).

Trying to get a sense of what slaangor units will be like from all this info. The Direchasm model is on a 40mm base with 5 hitpoints, which implies monstrous infantry profile (3/4 wounds, 3 per unit). And I was wondering if the actual unit would be bigger and on 50mms, like how the underworlds dankhold is a lil munchkin compared to the AoS dankhold troggoth. But then these cards have the slaangor starting at 20 hitpoints, which is the health count you see for 2 wound AoS models. And we still haven't seen the whole model. So at this point, I'm guessing 40mm 5 model units of three wound elites? Especially since they're gonna be different from the painbringers, which I'm sure will be two wound equivalents to chaos warriors or blood warriors.