Gwendar
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Posts posted by Gwendar
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14 minutes ago, RUNCMD said:
Apologies I'm not sure hot to do the neater lists as a drop down on this forum
There's a few things I'm missing like his Skulls forcing ALL my successful spells Turn 2 or 3 I think to be re-rolled and man that hurts, but less so when you don't even roll successful casts anyway
Can't DD them either because they are still forced to be re-rolled, but you can use them after the inital roll as the re-roll.
Nice game.. and I hate Khorne when I play as Tzeentch but they still have trouble chewing through Horrors. Just have to make sure your Heroes are far enough away so the Bloodthirsters don't explode MW's on them when they hit. Had a single Bloodthirster kill Scribes, Changecaster and Curseling from that one time 😅
As for the drop down thing, just hit the spoiler button above (the little eye icon) then just past whatever you want in that.
So, 2 things for you to look at when you play Khorne again:-
DD cannot be re-rolled or modified.. so you wouldn't have to RR them.
- If you have RR's (so Scribes or HD trait) and you fail to roll and you choose to RR it, you cannot then be forced to RR that RR. Per core rules, you never RR a RR.
You didn't mention #2 specifically as happening, but just wanted to include it in case 😉-
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DD cannot be re-rolled or modified.. so you wouldn't have to RR them.
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Been playing a lot of Tzeentch lately and taking a break from Skaven this month.. but I know some of you like reading my batreps so figured I would post it here too for anyone interested 😉
Also @SoSoCho I would agree that you'll probably get a lot more mileage from the Furnace being General like Riff_Raff said. Good luck to any future games for you.-
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Well, here it is.. had my game vs Fyreslayers tonight, so for anyone looking at a decent representation of how my magic-based HD lists work, here you go 😉
As always I welcome any feedback\questions\comments.-
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10 minutes ago, Kasper said:
Excellent points my good Sir. I see what you mean with Skyfires and DD, I just feel like I would rather use those DD to secure a Gift through the Spellportal to snipe important heroes in turn 1 etc. Ontop of having the horde clear. I think its ultimately much stronger, at least for the meta Im in locally.
I thought Blue Scribes main purpose was to give the other boys rerolls, but pretty much securing the Spellportal for big boi Kairos makes alot of sense. How do you keep track of Frantic Scribbling btw? From what I gather he can learn an unlimited amount of spells?
I thought the purpose of the Manticore was going solo with maybe the Kairics for an objective since hes reasonable tanky with a 3+ and the extra hit and wound makes him somewhat punchy. In that case he wouldnt really give the reroll to the other guys, so figured giving it to the Changecaster or Magister would be more beneficial.
I mean sure, it isn't going to be available to do both every game unless I roll like four 6's 😅. If someone deployed a hero to be in range of the portal then I would absolutely choose that.. but people are generally less afraid of Skyfires and that extra 4" of range can make a difference. They're more of a mind-game type unit; if you make me go 1st, I have a good shot at killing something unless you literally deployed it in the corner somewhere (which is a win for me) and can just generate FP's and set up a better screen\position Skyfires somewhere I think you won't want them. If you make me go 2nd, I can potentially double-turn you and you may be closer with everything to let me start wiping units out\locking them down.
In most lists yeah, but since HD gives RR's to all but 2 of my Wizards (whose warscroll spells are the reason I take them and Kairos can just cast them anyway) for free then he can actually do other stuff. Usually he's the one zipping around to summon things on top of objectives and throwing out Tzeentch's Firestorm on a 2+ when the Portal isn't needed. As for Frantic Scribbling, I find it isn't really anything I pay much attention to honestly.. I may remember use it to learn Bolt of Tzeentch or a good spell from an enemy wizard in range, but it usually slips my mind and I haven't felt I lost a game due to not learning a spell.
It can go both ways I guess. T1\2 in almost every scenario he's sitting in the little wizard castle providing RR's. T2\3 is usually when things start looking like I can send him out to be more aggressive and lock things down with the 3+ save. I dunno.. still experimenting with it. Late enough in the game and I may not be overly concerned with having RR's and if I think I may be then I can run the Blue Scribes back down to everyone else and have him use Boon. In another version of the list I have the Changecaster with it, but haven't got to test it out yet to see if I prefer it. Being on the BW means his base size increases quite a bit and makes that 9" aura easier to work with.-
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2 minutes ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:
Yup Gnawholes can be place anywhere on the board edge. The 9'' away from enemies part I don't get or can't remember was part of the rule because I don't know what in the game causes enemy models to be on the table pre-deployment. If you really wanted to you could put all 3 on your opponents side just for giggles.
I wouldn't bother. All of those armies you're playing are going to close the distance so fast you're better off just adding more speed bumps for them. The other skaven players have tons of opinions on those catapults but for now I would wait to put them in a list until you're playing 2K points.
I think @SoSoCho is confusing the placement of Gnawholes with "models that use a Gnawhole must be more than 9" away from enemy models". The Gnawholes have specific rules in the battletome for how far away from other terrain they need to be, and they just need to be wholly within 8" of an edge. And as for those Catapults... oh boy do we have opinions on them 😉
I appreciate your comments in the last post. I've had people get so down and out the moment one of their units dies.. it largely ruins the game for both players (because now I feel bad for playing the game) and I try to turn them into a teaching moment the exact way you described. Of course, sometimes people don't want to listen and will continue to be a bit sour about it. -
1 hour ago, Kasper said:
Semi necro but have you had time to get more games in with this build? I dont like the idea of the Skyfires because from my experience with them in BoC they were really lackluster and disappointing. I do get the speed and the long range snipe potential, but still. I feel like the horde clear spell from the Manticore looks much better on paper.
I thought about swapping out the Darkfire Daemonrift and instead include the Prismatic Palisade, especially since you can create 2 chaos spawns and set them up just within 3" of a unit, then cast the Palisade between the spawn and the enemy unit and really mess up with their pile-in since they likely wouldnt be allowed to do a pile-in due to the requirement of ending closer and due to HD they couldnt retreat either. You could effectively lock down a big blob of HGB (or anything really) in the middle of the map until the Palisade was dispelled. The Palisade also protects the Spawn from being sniped with shooting/magic due to blocking LoS.
Isnt Blue Scribes a little redundant in HD though? You already have the trait to give casters rerolls. Did you put it on the Manticore because you reckon it is the most tanky model due to the +1 save artefact? Just wondering why he got it over someone else, since he wont benefit from it himself.
I have another scheduled for either tonight or thursday vs a Vostarg FS list. I feel Skyfires work better in Tzeentch for 2 reasons:
- DD potentially giving you 1-2 6's for the MW's on an important hero
- Discs getting +1 attack which makes them capable of throwing out ~20 damage vs a 4+ save
That can absolutely clear a lot of things.. plus they can go first for the RR's and don't have to wait to get hit first like Enlightened (assuming you aren't hiding them behind chaff). Enlightened can do twice as much potentially, but they're harder to use and aren't a big threat vs 5 wound heroes like Skyfires 24" bows are. But yeah, the full magic list has the Sorc Lord and that spell really shines sometimes. I think I did like.. 20-25 MW's to a unit of Stormvermin before and absolutely crippled them, but I was obviously rolling hot 😅.
Hmm... I hadn't thought of a Palisade but I like the idea. I think my worry is just that the list lacks some direct damage and that Daemonrift can usually net me d3+4-5 MW's when I throw it out there. I think I may give that a shot though as that sounds incredibly frustrating and thus incredibly funny to watch someone deal with.
The Scribes is there because he get's out important spells on that 2+ which can't be unbound, he's never using Boon. Usually that means he's casting the Spellportal for Kairos so he has 3 spells to blast into things with the 1 spell going through portal usually being Gift or Winds of Chaos. For me, he's the best model to have it other than the Changecaster; Kairos and the Scribes are both named and I would rather a high wound +1 save model have it over a small hero like the Magister. I'll likely change his spell to Glimpse since Kairos is usually casting Winds of Chaos and Bolt of Change which frees those 2 up to do something else.-
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@Ganigumo true, I think for me I just have a hard time justifying it in most lists because I'm filling it so heavily with lots of wizards or Enlightened\Skyfires that I simply don't have room for 2 battalions. Stacking it with Aspect on a different model could be funny too... I dunno, I may go and see if I can write a list on lunch that could benefit.
EDIT: Yeah, I just can't make any double-battalion setup that really benefits from it? I did make an HA list with Tzaangor Coven and Cabal.. but squeezing it in with Witchfyre may be good too (I just didn't want to do that personally since I would lose the LoC from my list).
The issue I have with it remains the same though; what am I really gaining? I get more DD back which is nice, but the issue is that it kind of wants you to go into an Arcanite heavy list, and Arcanite artifacts are really not great compared to the 3 powers that Daemon's can get. So in that regard you're not really gaining much from the extra artifacts and you're really just getting lower drops and another CP. Cabal is probably alright on it's own and I could see some use out of 2 Tzaangor Shamans and a Fatemaster for an Enligthened\Skyfire heavy list perhaps.. but again I just don't see it being incredibly worth it, personally. -
5 minutes ago, gronnelg said:
Yeah, I want to keep Thanquol to be able to cast death frenzy with +2, and horde clearing. It's a tough choice though. Going down to 6 jezzails feels like it would make them much less of a threat. Do you think it would be worth it, for that extra engineer?
And yeah, I would rather keep the bell.I've largely stopped running 9 Jezzails in lists (but that's mostly because I've running 2 1/2 threat lists with Fiends and Stormvermin and then I have just enough to squeeze in a WLC or something) but when I do run them, 6 has done just fine. Jezzails will math out to do ~1-1.5 damage per model with a spark and hit RR's, so you would only lose about 3 damage. If the goal is to just snipe out 5 wound heroes then 6 should be enough unless you just roll like trash a lot 😅
I like having that extra security of another Engineer, especially in an age where so many things can take them off the board quite easily. 2 Bombardiers wouldn't be bad just because that 18" shot can surprise you in the damage it does sometimes. An AW is nice as well for the better save and extra wound, on top of being a 2-cast\unbind wizard.-
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4 hours ago, Tizianolol said:
Abother question, what do you think about arcanite cabal and how it works?:)
I dunno, that one's a little harder to gauge. I think the cost of 140 for it is steep but the effect is nice, even if it only affects 1 of the heroes (hence if that hero you chose dies, you no longer gain the effect of the battalion) but I don't think it brings enough to be worth it overall. At least not in my book.
2 hours ago, Kasper said:This effectively means you cant use your fate dice of 1s on the Pinks to bring D6 back though? Since they are immune in the first place and hence wont be able to even take the test.
Correct. If it was worded "they do not have to take battleshock tests" then it would be your choice. Since it's worded "Do not take" then you wouldn't be able to use the 1. All you'd need to do is keep 1 model outside that 12" aura though.
1 hour ago, Kasper said:Are Flamers only worthwhile within Eternal Conflag, or are they reasonable in Hosts Duplicitous?
I thought about this list below. It is built mainly from 2 SC:Tzeentch + LoC + Blue/Brim boxes.
1st SC building Changecaster + 3 Flamers + 1 Exalted (no disc) + 10 Pinks
2nd SC building Fluxmaster on the Disc from the first SC + 3 Flamers + 10 Pinks.
This would leave me with 6 screamers + 1 disc + exalted leftover. Might be able to sell them or keep them for later, dont know yet. Seems reasonably cheap to buy into.
Allegiance: Tzeentch
- Change Coven: Hosts Duplicitous
Leaders
Lord of Change (380)
- General
- Command Trait: Will of the Phantom Lord
- Artefact: Brand of the Spirit Daemon
Changecaster, Herald of Tzeentch (110)
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
Fluxmaster, Herald of Tzeentch on Disc (130)
- Artefact: Aura of Mutability
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (220)
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (220)
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (220)
Units
3 x Flamers of Tzeentch (140)
3 x Flamers of Tzeentch (140)
1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (100)
10 x Brimstone Horrors of Tzeentch (60)
10 x Brimstone Horrors of Tzeentch (60)
Battalions
Changehost (180)
Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Balewind Vortex (40)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 90I think they're generally still worth it, but I really feel like you'd want to still try to bring 9-12. That -1 rend accounts for about 2-3 damage per unit of 3 Flamers which obviously adds up (so 6 Flamers would gain ~5 damage from the -1 rend assuming all other buffs to get them to 2/2/0/d3).
I think the bottom line is that Conflag just makes more sense even if you run a bunch of Pinks since their shooting also benefits from that -1 rend.. but that isn't to say that HD is the worst option you can go with. All those Horrors holding things up can mean a lot against certain matchups, completely nullifying my Clanrats ability to retreat + charge. Alternatively, Conflag would just let you blow the unit off the table... so 😅
1 hour ago, Asimov said:Thanks a lot! This will do perfectly
Do you think it is worth to take a chaos spawn with the extra 50? or the extra CP for 50 is still a thing?
@RUNCMD can give his input but I think you want that CP or an Endless. CP gives you BS immunity, the ability to use the LoC's ability more often, or RR 1's to hit on the unit of 6 Flamers (which is nice when their profile is 2/2/-1/d3). A Chaos Spawn isn't going to do anything for you really as they're pretty bad overall 😉
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11 minutes ago, gronnelg said:
Hey guys! I previously posted this list, which I really like on paper (haven't gotten to try it yet though). However, I am very scared of having only one engineer, as 5 wounds at 5+ is super easy to snipe, and would really hurt my list. So I'm wondering if I could somehow squeeze in a 2nd engineer.
Alternativly, how would you change this list?
The goal is an all-round tournament list.Hmm.. tough. I assume you want to keep Thanquol, so the only thing I can think to do is to drop down to 6 Jezzails in order to fit it in. I wouldn't drop the Clawlord since that +1 attack is a huge damage increase for them. You could drop down to 2x20 Clanrats and lose the Bell, but now you have BS immunity problems and less bodies.
So, other than those choices.. all you can do is drop Thanquol and you would have enough for an AW (or Engineer of your choice) and a Screaming Bell if you so desire. Thanquol is a threat in his own right though, so that's obviously something to consider. -
1 hour ago, Tizianolol said:
Im kinda new to tzeentch, how skyshoal coven works? It says a unit make a NORMAL move, so i cant charge enemy unit and pass across with the charge move? ( like terradonts) . I can only pass across in movement phase? Maybe a retreat too? Thx all !
Correct, the MW's only go off in the movement phase (so yeah, a retreat as well).
Just my input, but Skyshoal isn't super worth it in practice. You'll hardly ever get to fly over something and the units of 3 make it hard to get the most of out the units RR's. Even if you do fly over, you only pick 1 unit to do MW's to.. even if you passed over 3.-
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11 minutes ago, Tizianolol said:
@Gwendarye maybe blue scribes can be strong for portal casted with 2+ . Maybe swapping changecaster and balewind . U lose d6 damage spell but u make your emglighted better. I domt know but feel loke if i play 6 emglighted, +1 to hit make my damage output mutch better!:)
Yeah, he's usually the one that's casting the Portal in those lists T1. After that he's just on Tzeentch's Firestorm duty and running across the table to summon Blues onto objectives.
Again, I don't personally think it's worth losing the Changecaster on BW either 😅. The point of the list is to sit back 1-2 turns, spam magic, generate bodies and keep things locked down with Chaos Spawn\Horrors. +1 to hit will give them ~3-5 more damage on average.. but you then lose two d6 MW spells (Bolt of Tzeentch and Pink Fire) at 24" just so you can gain that Shaman.
Like I always say, give it a try.. but I usually only think a Shaman is worth it if I'm running 6 Skyfires and 6 Enlightened at least.. but at that point, I'm not running a caster based list and I'm likely building into Hosts Arcanum or something.-
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10 minutes ago, Tizianolol said:
@Gwendarwhat do you think about add tz shaman and 6 enghlighted on disc instead skyfire and blue scribes?
You'll have to remind me what list we're talking about.. been awhile 😅. I assume you mean the Magic-based Hosts Duplicitous one?
I would be incredibly hesitant to ever consider swapping out the Blue Scribes for a Shaman to be honest. Having that 2+ to cast a spell is so good, even if it can't use DD. The Shaman is going to give them +1 to hit which can amount to another 5-8 damage on average but.. I would still rather have the Scribes, but that's a preference I think. Up to you.. but I don't think he's necessary.
As for the Enlightened, I really don't like them.. but I know most people do. I find them difficult to use and often times they'll have lost 1-2 models at least before they get their RR's which kills their damage quite a bit and the RR's don't make up for it. Skyfires can threaten small heroes and chaff units while the magic does most of the work. Again, that's just preference. If you like Enlightened then by all means use them; they are technically better and the list lacks a melee punch if we're talking about the right one. 😉 -
3 minutes ago, Elevenist said:
That's a pity, because I cant use Acolytes in two game systems.
I'm not a huge fan of the whole "you need 2 boxes of Blues per 1 box of Pinks" and it just means I have to transport\paint so much extra.. but it's pretty necessary if you want to run them. It's a big reason I generally only run 10 Pinks and fill the rest with Acolytes or Screamers.
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31 minutes ago, Kharl said:
Working on a fun list, does Kairos have access to infernal gateway of LoC if he is wholly at 18’ from him?
No, because that spell requires a damage chart to be used:
7 minutes ago, Elevenist said:Are pink horrors worth their points if you don't have any blues for the split?
Not at all. You would be paying 220 points for 10 wounds when you could pay 200 for twice as much with a better save by using 20 Kairic Acolytes and be able to get a spellcast out of them for longer since both lose their ability to do so the moment they drop under 9 models.
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3 hours ago, Tizianolol said:
Guys about destiny dice. The book says you can replace a single dice roll. Can i replace like 2 dice to hit and 2 dice to wound in the same turn potentially?:)
Yes, you can. Just keep in mind with 2d6 rolls you would need to replace both dice, not just 1.
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8 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:
2) yeah, at least against the skaven, their luck will run out pretty fast.
especially considering that a vast majority of skavenplayers have started using 100++clanrats in games.
and that’s a pretty tough not to crack for those giants.
1)I’m going to guess your looking for somebody with the tabletop simulator, game.
if I’ll be able to install it with the mod needed to play aos, I wouldn’t mind being that opponent.
although it might be a bit hard to play a game of with not knowing the full rules of those giants (allegiance and so on) .
Warstompers could potentially clear them (Mancrushers get +1\+2 damage vs units with 10+\20+ models) but.. meh.
And yeah, I am. The only thing you really need from the Steam Workshop with TTS is the following:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1703264561&searchtext=Skaven
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2041945260&searchtext=deinoks+table (this one is only really necessary if you intend to host games yourselves, honestly)
We actually do have the full rules as multiple people have put out the book review today. So I've already gone ahead and made a little cheat-sheet with all of the rules and with the warscrolls on the website.. I'm set to play them at 100% 😅-
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Just now, Skreech Verminking said:
unless they have some kind of a fight three times ability, your basically going to kill him with a screen of clanrats backed up with some Acolytes, Stormfiends, Stormvermins, Plague monks.
They don't. So they aren't super killy, nor are they super defensive.. I'm trying to get some games in with them this weekend but no-ones been available. They can maybe hold onto objectives reasonably well for a couple turns but.. they don't win the attrition game.
They can go to 40 wounds with a Command Trait and the Warstomper can take an artifact to RR saves but... yeah. They may kill 20-30 Clanrats if they're lucky, but those 35-40 wounds are getting removed right after, like you said. Assuming they make it there in the first place with Fiends\Jezzails. -
1 hour ago, Moogypies said:
There is no game state of "in combat" in the rules. Just "eligible to fight when within 3" ". (Or 6 if you have the abilities)
Flying units have to retreat still I agree, because they do not IGNORE the units they are eligible to fight.
It may well need to come to an FAQ, but as written I cannot see why they do not ignore this restriction, and I think to avoid getting completely bogged down by screens and unable to damage our way out (Literally!) this is something we need.That doesn't matter, what matters is that if you start within 3", then you have to either retreat or remain stationary. If their rule was meant to explicitly counter that, it would have said that; I don't think that's the kind of thing you simple forget to write out.
They only ignore units when moving, because without the FLY keyword then they would not normally be able to pass over models. While it doesn't say "pass over as if it has FLY" the end all is that they start a move within 3". By your logic, you're saying they're never considered to be in combat.
40k Knights don't have this restriction as has been discussed I believe, but this isn't 40k and Gargants may or may not have this similar rule. It's a different game.. getting bogged down by 40 Clanrats should be perfectly acceptable and I'm more concerned for their overall survivability and low damage than I am about them getting stuck in combat.
It just seems like they replaced "as if they weren't there" with "Ignore" because it's less words.. I think you're reading into this a bit much. -
20 minutes ago, Moogypies said:
We IGNORE enemy models under 10 wounds, when making the normal move, thus we do not have to retreat.
Right.. because normally, you wouldn't be able to come within 3" of something or pass across models.
This interprets the same as other abilities that do the same thing, but sure, with slightly different wording. If you're in combat (within 3" of an enemy) then you still have to retreat when you move. You're only "ignoring" the rules that prevent you coming within 3" or passing across models; units with Fly (and Doomwheels as another example) do the same thing. They still are classified as retreating.
If that wasn't intended, then it likely would've read "It can still make a charge move later in that phase". Sure, maybe it needs an FAQ but I certainly won't be playing it the way you're interpreting it until then. -
2 hours ago, Coyote said:
Regarding stinky giants -
I’m a little leery if this’ll change the way the game plays for a while, if eventually most opponents have a 400 pt 35 wound stomper running around.
I’m also wondering how many Skaven I’ll need to make a Giant RattleMech to squish things.Honestly.. really nothing to be concerned about in my opinion. I genuinely don't see them doing anything to the meta really.. maybe the Kraken-Eater since it can be taken in Order armies and has the ability to kick objectives around but.. otherwise they seem more fluff than tough.
35 wounds with a 4+ save will melt in 1 shooting\combat phase from an abundant number of things and they each do about 9-14 damage on average outside of any allegiance abilities (which of course they won't have if they're a Merc). -
@RUNCMD Honestly, I always did the same with any army I played and I've also been considering going back to writing my own. I just color-coded units and super-condensed down the rules (like CV 8, 18": d3 MW's, chaos spawn within 3" of unit if model dies) that I can glance at quickly rather than having to read the whole rule like aosreminders does. Taking an hour or 2 to bold, underline and italicize everything helps so much more 🤣
Lumineth is rough.. but they aren't OP by any means and I actually find them quite balanced overall. 100% agree however that the 30" line of sight ignoring Sentinels that put out 10+ MW's is absurd.. something needs to change with that in the Winter FAQ. Teclis with his spell through a Spellportal can also be tough for people but at least that can be worked around with strong unbinds. Unfortunately, I think they're going to fall into that same "there's barely any units in this book and some aren't great" category and you'll see the same 1-2 things.
My Idoneth game is on Sunday.. trying to chill out tonight but I'm 100% going to try to get a game in Thursday\Friday or 2 on Saturday. Good luck with your next one. -
55 minutes ago, Kharl said:
anyway this list is very competitive but lack of fun and strategy. If you have a double turn with your flamers shooting it is over.
Working now on others lists, I was wondering how it works when taking slaves to darkness units...I saw very interesting starting point from @Gwendar but what about chaos warriors? Do they have the benefit of Tzeentch mark (reroll save 1) when being close to a tzeentch hero? In addition they could receive the ability from the sorcerer...
about be’lakor, you cannot give him a tzeentch spell right?
Biggest reason I seldom run my Conflag Changehost list.. you nearly always dictate them getting T1 and if you get the double that's usually game. Not fun for anyone; casual or competitive player irregardless. Definitely something fun to take against your local "that guy" though 😉
They won't gain any StD abilities if they're played under Tzeentch which is where I assume that "RR 1's to save" you're talking about is coming from. They would get marked Tzeentch which gives them that keyword and thus they would be affected by things that affect Tzeentch units, but not anything that affects "Tzeentch Daemon" or "Tzeentch Arcanite" units. They're nice little anvils and I think they have a place in that regard.. but for damage I would look elsewhere. Even 20 with Halberds, +1 attack and RR hits\wounds from a Sorc Lord isn't doing much better than 20 Tzaangors (counting only the mutants and Greatblades getting into combat).
As for Be'lakor, that is correct. He cannot be marked Tzeentch like a Sorcerer Lord can and thus he can only be taken as an ally and not able to take a Tzeentch Spell. -
@RUNCMD Nice to hear it worked out.. and solid points all around. I've found one of the biggest issues with Pyrofane is just how CP heavy it is. When I play Duplicitous or Arcanum, I can pretty easily just save them up and they really only get used for the odd at the double, inspiring presence or whatever special ability that coven has. With Pyrofane, I really want to RR wounds, but when you're already spending a CP for the Fatemaster and then potentially another as you've said it can really bleed you dry fast.
I've given Summoners a look at instead of Duplicitous in my 5-6 wizard lists.. but overall I just don't know how worth it it ends up being. I can stay in HD and then get free RR's to all daemon wizards (which frees up the Scribes to use spells on a 2+ that isn't just Boon of Tzeentch) and make everything tarpit indefinitely... or I can get 1, maybe 2 Big Birds per game.. and even then it can't do anything really until the subsequent turn other than shoot or charge. I'm interested to see how it works with a pseudo Pyrofane setup. There was actually a Summoners list that took a small 10 person tournament going 5-0 a couple weeks ago.. so it can definitely work. I think if you plan to run it, then you most certainly need to be bringing at least 5-6 Hero wizards and try to achieve 10-12 casts per turn so you can get 2 LoC's out by T2\3.
I assume you already know of it, but you may wanna look at https://aosreminders.com/ for any memory issues with rules... or you can be like me and use it, but never look at it while you play 😅-
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Can't DD them either because they are still forced to be re-rolled, but you can use them after the inital roll as the re-roll. 
AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion
in Chaos
Posted
Nope, all of my local players know I'm a competitive player and a handful of them are too (particularly the ex-40k tournament players) so they don't care at all and they just have playing and learning to get better. The different is that unlike the standard "that guy" I try to pull things back against the casual folks or literally just tell them how as we play to stay away\counter my army. This list is all about control, but if you bring a shooting focused or hyper-fast\punchy army that can just shoot the wizards off or eat through the Horrors then it falls apart incredibly quickly.
I see their point about it being uninteractive to some extent, but I would rather play against this than get shot off the board via Changehost. Teleporting right in your face and then killing 2-4 units per turn (on a 1-drop so I'll almost always decide who goes first) is far less interactive than this 9-drop list that has some glaring weaknesses. Changehost is hard to zone out if you run a Bridge like I do... but this list? I've had so many people make me go first and I can't hit anything important with spells T1.. then they double turn me and it usually goes downhill quickly once they've already reached me and claimed some boardspace. On TTS this is generally a lot harder to play because I have access to some very high level players.
I wanted to quote this part too just to re-emphasize some things. My local scene is probably about 16 players (more than half of that being 1-2 hours away) and maybe 6 of them of are as competitive\tournament focused like I am. With a couple of people in the casual crowd, I can have 1 good game where everything goes right and I blow everything off the table with Skaven (now a B tier army at best) and I'll get some talk about how they're broken.. I take the same thing to other competitive-minded folks and it's the complete opposite. Some have even outright quit the hobby for months\permanently because they didn't win a game in a year, even when playing against other casual people.
Now, I haven't played a physical game since February, but what I started doing was bringing 2 lists to these tournaments and give my opponents the choice of what to play. The competitive people would ask to play the heavy-handed list while the casual people would say "nah I don't care which you do!" so I would give them the easier list or I would pull back and do what I described above with showing them how to beat it.
"Different stroke for different folks" is a term used around here a lot and I think it applies in the divide between casual and competitive. I don't care for people that refuse to play just because of a list as I often find that these are the same people that think tournaments are stupid and that the game should only be played in a way they think is fun. If you aren't a "that guy" then they should at least give themselves the opportunity to see how it works and pass judgement then.