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Gwendar

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  1. Gwendar
    I agree with the others in that you need to drop the Priest as he isn't doing anything. I would rather bump a Clanrat unit to 40 or take 10 Nightrunners. I also don't particularly care for Jezzails in units of 6 but that's just me 😅 I would also potentially suggest finding a way to get a 2nd WLC now that I think about it... 1 is fine, but 2 is more consistent when you really need something to die, especially if you're only running 6 Jezzails.. but like I said I'd try to up that to 9 and still take 2 WLC's if able. Typically you'll be overcharging at least 1 of them (note 1 Engineer can only Overcharge 1 WLC per turn) unless you want to gamble without it when it comes to killing that 5-wound support hero. Yeah, I wouldn't mind something like that. I really think Fiends need to have some power given back to them. Losing those 3 extra fiends lowered their wound count too much to stand up to a lot of things... it was nice when it would take 27 wounds to start affecting our shooting, now it's only 20 and their firepower is reduced at the same time. I'd still rather see Stormvermin go down in price so I can actually take them when it comes to dedicated melee. I always vouch for 2 Engineers if you have something reliant on MMMWP.. but in your case, you don't have anything that needs it. Jezzails should never get it in my opinion; it won't up their damage by enough and it will kill them off too quickly. For the same reason I tend to never give them Vigordust and just try to use their re-rolls to fish for 6's in a scenario where they're at -1 or more to hit. I've been iffy about the WLV recently but it can still do work under the right circumstances.. so it's worth trying. Deranged Inventor is good if the Jezzails need to move, but 9\10 times they just get sent through a Gnawhole which isn't a move and thus they get to keep their RR's. If you take WLV, consider Skitterleap on the Bell to drop it where you need it (teleport near a Gnawhole, drop it, then escape in movement phase with the Gnawhole teleport) but Death Frenzy is probably a higher pick due to your 40 Monks.
  2. Gwendar
    I can honestly see people taking 9 Jezzails and 1-2 WLC's. That can still leave you room for 6 Fiends\30 Acolytes\40 Monks\HPA, etc.
  3. Gwendar
    I don't think so, personally. They won't benefit much from buffs at that size.. although I do wonder if you outfit them to be more melee-focused (Shock\Doomflayers, Warpfire and Grinders) if they could be decent. Still not worth their points compared to a dedicated melee unit in my opinion. As for Seraphon, I've been wanting to get some competitive games in with our local Seraphon players, but my state is shutting down Thursday and we've not been able to get games in for about 1-2 weeks now. I think the standard Coalesced CC builds will be easier for us to deal with like most CC armies are; I'm more worried about the shooting\magic focused lists which is having me reconsider the Ratling Gun thing for the time-being. That said, Seraphon are hyper-reliant on their heroes as nearly all their buffs come from them to make their units deadly. Without those buffs, their stuff really isn't all that great overall. So, yeah, long range shooting\MW's will likely be the trick. Many are going to be running 10-15 Saurus Guard to pass wounds\MW's off to on a 2+ and they have 2 wounds each so.. chewing through that to actually kill said heroes (note this is only possible with the Slann who generate all the CP but they're also threatening spellcasters) can be a challenge. I see more Jezzails\WLC's in the future potentially; any competent Seraphon player isn't going to let your 12" Ratling Cannons or 8" Acolytes get in range.
  4. Gwendar
    True, though I find that the power creep in this game has meant Fiends will get instantly deleted by things just as easily as anything else; at the very least brought down to 1-2 models left which makes them effectively useless. 20 Irondrakes, 6-9 Flamers, etc will all deal with Fiends as easily as they will 30 Acolytes and 9 Jezzails. Ratlings\Jezzails are never going to get MMMWP, so that's a non-issue for me. Fiends are still finding places in my lists and my local group knows what they can do; but most of my meta is CC oriented and there isn't much magic\shooting in it. I still want to include the Bridge as utility but not as something that they're going to be built around.. it can help deal with these shooting lists to be deployed further back and get closer in the following turn rather than trying to alpha-strike your opponent in shooting. We do have 1 local Seraphon player (probably more soon) that are building rather shooting heavy.. but that's handled a little differently than Tzeentch, KO or Cities. I've definitely had people surprised at what they do with just the Clubbing Blows.. but generally if they get charged, it's by something that's going to fight first and they get wiped anyway 😅 I've put out the stats before in various pages on this thread. Fully buffed (MMMWP + Vigordust + Spark), 2 Ratlings and 2 Windlaunchers (not counting their their additional +1 to hit vs. 10+ models) will do the following on average: This doesn't include Shock-Gaunlets\Doomflayers or Clubbing Blows obviously, this is strictly the shooting output.
  5. Gwendar
    @The Red King I guess it depends on the TO for anything like that.. generally I see a lot of leeway with it (despite what the pack may say) so I don't tend to worry about it. For casual then sure, I think it looks fine and I've seen people do the same kind of thing. For reference, here are mine with Irondrake Guns on them as "Poison Globe Launchers" and I've yet to have a problem. When the unit costs so much, people tend to be a lot cooler about literally any conversion with them 😅
  6. Gwendar
    People will almost always make us go first due to all the short range shooting; if they can get a double then they can deal with it through CC or shooting.. so yeah, the best you're hoping for is for them to not remove your Clanrats screens T1 or for them to not get the double so you can counter. As for the Doomwheel, I see it as more of a hero-killer much like Jezzails.. not that it can't deal with other things but I don't know that it quite compares at all to the pure damage of some Ratlings, especially when it's speed can leave it out of range of anything. It's great against Hallowheart lists where it can zoom across 2-3 of those squishy Battlemages and then shoot them off the board 😉 Oh yeah, Fiends will almost always be more consistent.. I've just been wanting to try them myself but I can still easily fit in 3 threats by using 6 Fiends, 9 Jezzails and an HPA which works well enough. Subbing the Fiends for 3 Ratlings, 30 Acolytes and potentially a Doomwheel just leaves more bases potentially covered. But yeah, overall it can suffer from other shooting\magic armies. I'm the only Skaven player in my area so I have a bit of an advantage until people start understanding what my threats are, like our Seraphon player. He can easily just Comets Call all 3 of the Ratlings off the table in 1 Hero Phase\negate the Bridge and prevent them from doing much.. and still Comets Call them off.. man, I really miss my 1x9 Fiends.
  7. Gwendar
    I make a point nowadays to include 3-4. Jezzails are the best thing to throw through Gnawholes so they can usually get an angle on something hiding if needed. Fiends are more or less considered short range; with Lo,S giving them -1 to hit it makes those 6 Windlauncher shots sorta of 'meh' at killing heroes but combined with Jezzails means you can somewhat reliably kill 2 per turn at a minimum. Acolytes have a 20" threat range, but with their base sizes you may only get 20 or less of them in unless it's already quite close to you. HPA is there as it's a horde-clearer when it isn't bracketed too hard and it's good to have something that can fight in combat. Assuming we actually have our little local tournament this weekend (doubtful) then I may try an older list of Fiends+HPA+Jezzails again since I don't have Ratlings built yet... but we'll see.
  8. Gwendar
    @Twh30 I will always try to make room for those 9 Jezzails; they've proven to be invaluable in nearly every game. I've been thinking of an alternative to the Thanquol list I posted a page or two back that removes him as the horde-killer and allows for 30 Acolytes which.. pretty much delete anything they touch. Combining them with 4 Ratlings (1 is more or less "reserve"),9 Jezzails and a HPA. The main difference here is that with the Thanquol list, nothing needs MMMWP so it's completely non-reliant on that spell going off.. here though, it's needed due to the Acolytes, but even without it you can do decently if they target a horde. Anyway, more math-hammer for those interested. This is all 3 options without MMMWP. All have +1 damage and the Acolytes\Fiends are getting +1 from Vigordust. Ratlings have Overseer of Destruction and is assumed you get the average of ~42 shots: This is what led me to want to test 3 Ratlings as they don't require anything but Overseer which can't fail.. of course like Fiends it really matters what you roll on those d6's. But you're saving 340 points which can net you those 30 Acolytes. It's worth noting that if you just give Fiends and Acolytes Deranged Inventor then the damage jumps on both by about 6-8 on average which will surpass the Ratlings.. but by using 3 Ratlings, you again save a ton of points for other things like Monks, Jezzails, HPA, etc. So I guess in the end it's more a matter of your preference.
  9. Gwendar
    I still think they're fine but after the unit size max went down to 9 they've a lot more "meh" to me. I've been testing lots of stuff but I'm currently trying to work out 3 Ratling Teams in place of them (or more as reserve when the others die) but with everything being cancelled\shutdown it's hard for anyone to get games in it seems to test things and any major tournaments are cancelled to observe any meta shifting. In your particular case, you will absolutely want to run Deranged Inventor so you can buff 1 unit with MMMWP and another with that so they at least get some support; neither unit is super astounding without MMMWP but Deranged is a good backup. You do have a lot of close-range shooting here though, so keep that in mind. I don't find that 6 Jezzails are worth it and if I run them I exclusively only do 9 as they can pop supports or cripple\kill larger things on good rolls.
  10. Gwendar
    I hope you meant run and shoot. They can't run and charge and you should never charge them into anything as they hit horribly in CC and will die in droves 😅 But yeah, they have a nice 20" threat range, though I usually say it's more like 18" or so due to the larger base size. If you only get 10 of them in range to shoot, they aren't all that astounding even fully buffed.
  11. Gwendar
    I find SoJ better, but if you're going casual games then people may not like the MW's it does so.. Dimensional Blade may be the better option 😉 I love them.. often use them in place of 6 Fiends and it leaves me 200 points to spare. I did damage calculations on them pages back and they're pretty insane..I think against a 4+ and fully buffed, just 20 of them can do ~40 damage on average? I once got all 30 in range of 20 or 30 Spite-Revs and they did about ~70 damage after saves (he had none thanks to the =2 rend) so... yeah. I like to take 30 but I generally only assume 20-25 will get in range unless something gets in my face T1. If you want them to be a main threat, then you need 25-30 in my opinion just to mitigate the self-damage from MMMWP + VIgordust. They're fragile of course, so be sure to keep them out of range of other shooting; once they drop below 20 they start to get kinda 'meh' really quickly.
  12. Gwendar
    Warpseer is generally considered a great all-rounder Verminlord. Good defense, a spell that can snipe a hero on a good roll or slow down something scarier and it has a huge BS immunity bubble.. the dude even gives you free CP.
  13. Gwendar
    If you run a "standard" 2-3 Skryre guns and a 40-Monk unit then no.. I think a Seer + 2 Engineers is perfect.
  14. Gwendar
    Well... that would certainly do it 😅 I prefer 9 Jezzails for various reasons.. but 2 WLC's overcharing every turn against something like Archaon could work out well. If you need to get MW's out, then just use those RR's to fish for 6's. You kind of have too many threats and no screens, so I'd try to have at least 60 Clanrats in there somewhere. 30 Acolytes will out-damage everything else by a substantial amount with MMMWP so you need to assess the situation and what they will be in range of with run + shoot. The problem I see you having is if you play something very capable of T1 charging you and the like. As said above, you don't have anything to screen (unless you planned to use one of those 30 units of Acolytes to do that) and with our naturally high drops you often won't be deciding who goes first. You can always deploy back, but then you have to hope that they don't get that double turn as they will be in range no matter how far back you deployed... and likely have full objective control. If you're given first turn, any decent player will deploy far enough back to negate the abundance of short range shooting you have which is the main threat compared to the 2 WLC's; lists like these do well with playing it back for 1 turn and getting a double once everything is in range. I try to always include 3 threats at a minimum but have recently moved to trying to have 4 and planning to give Ratling Guns plenty of time this month and next before I take a break from Skaven for a month or so. Anyway, sorry for the ramble... I do that a lot and my thoughts just sort of spill out 😉 Oh and it is.. when it goes off.. sometimes. The problem it's currently facing is this magic heavy meta; Nagash\Arkhan in OBR, Tzeentch\Archaon and auto-dispells\unbinds, New Seraphon (who I believe will be quite popular in the competitive scene) and even some CoS armies can do well to disrupt magic. With having a high CV, a Skryre Wizard with a RR next to a Gnawhole (they still get the +1 after RR's unlike Thanquol\Grey Seers) is the best option to cast it with but.. if it doesn't go off it's a 100 point paperweight for your cheat sheet. Even if it does go off, you can have abysmal luck with it by rolling 1's on d6 MW's or rolling a 1-3 four times in a row when you needed a 4 to do d3 MW's.. but it's a dice game after all and that's the nature of it in your case, yeah if you don't have anything that needs an Engineer then I wouldn't bother.. but always try to have at least 3 heroes\wizards for when those certain battleplans pop up.. and to spend CP obviously.
  15. Gwendar
    With your current list, you likely won't be doing much to kill him since he ignores spells too.. you just don't have enough reliable firepower to really deal with him in my opinion. The math on Ratlings is odd to calculate due to the random rolls.. I mean, you're always going to be doubling their shots (remember you roll 2d6 then double the result) so the mathed out average of 3 of them is going to be 42 shots, which with Overseer (RR all hits) and a Spark to all 3 will be ~20 damage vs a 4+ if I remember correctly. I wouldn't go with the WLV in the current meta anymore.. there's far too many things that can deny it\auto-unbind it as you've found out and it's CV of 8 is difficult, even with the RR's of a Spark. If you're going to bring Ratlings, you really want to have at least 3 and run the Engineer\Bombardier as General so they can have Overseer of Destruction.. I would also recommend Bridge in that setup but it isn't necessary. Your proposed list lacks any semblance of threats other than the 2 WLC's to kill heroes with.. but you also only have minimal Clanrats to take\hold objectives with. Even if you summoned in 2 VL's from the Bells (which is highly unlikely) none of them are inherently threatening when it comes to killing potential on their own. Bottom line with your final list is that I think it's more of a fluff list; which is totally fine if that's what your going for and I don't mean to be rude about so sorry if I'm coming off that way 😅. I just don't think it will hold up well in a competitive environment if that's what you're aiming to do.
  16. Gwendar
    Solid enough, 2 CC units and 2 shooting units.. overall though you don't really have a big "heavy hitter" unit like 6 Fiends, 20-30 Acolytes or Ratling Guns, but that isn't to say you absolutely need one at all. I assume your Bell has Death Frenzy as it's spell? Archaon can be tough, but it's generally going to come down to turn priority (which he can somewhat control if running Host of the Everchosen). He still dies to any heavy rend combat\shooting but that's really dependent on how close he is and if you get the next turn priority instead of him... which unfortunately is how AoS tends to work out. You shouldn't have issues screening Archaon with Clanrats so long as you place things in such a way to where he can't charge over them, IE keep everything close enough to where he has no-where to land except in front of some Clanrats. If you get the next turn, you should be able to shoot him off with Jezzails, 3 buffed Ratling Guns (requires Overseer of Destruction from a Skryre General), 6 Fiends and an overcharged WLC or 2.. or any combination of the above. All in all, yeah your list is wholly un-optimized due to what you have available to you. See some lists I and others have posted and you can get a sense of something a little more competitive.. if that's what you plan to do anyway 😉 Also on your spell question, you pick it in the list building stage.
  17. Gwendar
    I think based on the 2 ideas given, the Plague Monk one is the most reliably competitive in my opinion. The amount of bodies for objective control and the 3 units of Monks can handle a lot.. though you're going to struggle against anything with high saves (Fyreslayers, Stormcast, OBR, etc). The Moulder list would not perform particularly better in this case though, even with the 2 HPA's. And yes, you could roll those 5's to get unit's back but overall that isn't something you can count on; running the battalion would be best if that's your strategy. Skryre shooting builds with\without 40 Monks are still sitting at the top spot for us. All I can say is either way, I hope you enjoy painting all that.. that's a nightmare come true for me 😉
  18. Gwendar
    For 2k no.. I can say you really want 1x9 Jezzails and 1x6 Fiends if you're going to use either one of them. 6 Jezzails on average won't even pop a support hero unbuffed (which, aside from a Spark you probably shouldn't be buffing them) and that isn't worth it to me, hence why 9 is generally considered the best number... or 12 if you want to go after bigger targets more reliably. Same with 6 Fiends; 3 just isn't doing anything at all and 6 is what is going to make them viable. Under 2k? 6 Jezzails would be alright.. personally I wouldn't run with only 3 Fiends though. The AW, Bombardier and Engineer can all take More-More-More Warp Power (MMMWP) which lets a Skryre unit re-roll all hits and wounds. It's literally what makes Fiends and Acolytes so damaging.. if that spell doesn't go off you're losing a rather substantial amount of damage. Many will also take Deranged Inventor which lets a Skryre unit RR all hits; it's a good backup in case MMMWP doesn't go off. For the WLC's, they can overcharge them to make them roll 12 dice instead of only 6 when firing; but for every 1 you roll it takes d6 MW's. Note that if you roll a 1 on power level, you still have to roll all 12 dice if you overcharge it to see if it hurts itself despite knowing that it automatically does 12 MW's. If you're running 2 WLC's, I would keep 2 Engineers which gives you 3 sources of MMMWP as redundancy and ability to stick with each WLC to buff it. Otherwise, 2 Engineers (or Engineer + AW) is generally enough. If you really want something dead, you should overcharge it 90% of the time.. this game is all about trades. If you trade a 180p unit for something that is buffing the hell out of your opponents army or is a threat to yours directly then it's generally worth trading even if it blows itself up afterwards.
  19. Gwendar
    Previously I did run him 50/50.. but my worry is resilient hordes such as 20 Hearthguard Berserkers, 30 Phoenix Guard, Chaos Warrior or Saurus Guard blobs, etc.. and 4 would be far more likely to kill them than just 2. In this capacity, he would be used more aggressively than as support.. which is why I suggested potentially running 4 Warpfire Throwers could be a better option for less. I would prefer Thanquol over that option, but that's more personal preference. I don't really need 2 Braziers for CC or chasing after Heroes because I have other units that take care of that. So is 9 Jezzails which 1-shot a 2+ 6++ Liege Kavalos with 8 wounds and ignoring the 1st wound taken. That isn't going to happen with the WLC unless you roll a power roll of 1 on an overcharge. I still somewhat ship 2 WLC's for less than 9 Jezzails, but overall in doing that you lose maneuverability. You can teleport 9 Jezzails and have them shoot at full strength (no Spark of course); you aren't doing that with a single WLC unless you Skitterleap an Engineer next to it ahead of time.. and even then on average you're going to do less. I only still vouch for 2 WLC's simply because it doesn't care about Look Out, Sir and all that. Playing against a Forge Brethren + LotL Hermdar list meant his Heroes were getting a bunch of +1 to saves and were -1 to hit and wound so the Jezzails had a difficult time hurting them. And then of course they would just pass off wounds on a 4+ (which Saurus Guard do on a 2+ and have 2 wounds each so be prepared to have a hard time killing Seraphon Wizards) which took even longer. 2 WLC's would've at least negated all the -'s he was throwing out but for me it just meant I had to fish for 6's with the Jezzails. If you can afford to bring a double Arkhspark I think something can be said for them.. but I'm not sure that's ever going to be worth it for the points.
  20. Gwendar
    No squishier than Plague Monks which it often replaces\is combined with. It always has a chance to come back and if it survives can heal a bit. It does bracket rather harshly however so you really need be careful with it. You don't need one as generally if you can't summon one you just do the other effect which is to heal it but that depends on your opponent. RAW that only happens the 2nd time you roll a 12. So TLDR, yes you need a VL on hand. I generally find the Warpseer is a solid pick for this particular scenario.
  21. Gwendar
    I know some people have been curious on Thanquol (and honestly, he's seen a bit of a resurgence in the competitive scene) so I quickly made something up. I won't say it's competitive.. but maybe it can be? Ratling Gun Teams are also present as they count as their own threat.. so I'll discuss that below the list: So, what we have here altogether is: Thanquol - Anti-Horde\Elite. Warpgale is going to hinder something that you don't want getting into you. In this regard I think Shackles\WLV would be a good choice, but not sure either take the place of an HPA. Thanquol with 4 Warpfire projectors will likely delete or come quite close to deleting those 20 Hearthguard blocks that are becoming more prevalent due to how good Fyreslayers are against shooting and the like.. which I think is one reason we're seeing him show up more. Could you replace him with 4 Warpfire Thrower teams? Sure.. but I think he's a bit more resilient and efficient overall that makes him a good inclusion.. plus he nearly guarantees the Bridge gets off. 3x Ratling Guns - Anti.. anything. I compared these with 6 Fiends and honestly? I'm kind of wanting to try the Ratlings quite heavily over a Bridge which I think is mandatory with them. The damage between the two is somewhat close if you account for all buffs.. but if you fail MMMWP then then Ratlings get even closer. Obviously the Ratlings can spike higher\lower and have a good chance to kill themselves where as Fiends have more staying power. Overall, you have a 520p unit vs 180 points. Even with the inclusion of Bridge you're still getting a lot leftover.. not to mention with no need for MMMWP, you don't need another Engineer which saves 100p. HPA - Anti-Horde\Elite. You all already know I prefer this over Monks who have largely changed to only being good at killing units with weak saves. The HPA can do a bit more and can take over\help in the horde deleting role with Thanquol. It's not 40 wounds on an objective, but it can still apply pressure and act on it's own. Jezzails - Delete\Cripple heroes.. but we knew that already. I'm curious trying 2x WLC's in place of them for less points (or about the same if you include another Engineer to overcharge). I won't be teleporting them to get sneak shots like you can with Jezzails but.. may be worth testing. Note that you can throw MMMWP on them, but I would only do this if you're trying to kill something important like Nagash, a Stonehorn, Terrorgheist, etc. Oh, and just for fun the AW has Chain Warp Lightning so you can bounce some MW's around if able. The short range makes it hard but otherwise his only purpose is to keep the Ratling Guns RR'ing hits.. so feel free to include a Balewind for him 😉 Anyway yeah.. the world is ending apparently and work has been slow so I figured I would take my mind off everything going on by giving this idea some potential. Lots of things can actually be switched around, such as dropping the AW for a regular Engineer, throwing in WLV as it works well with Thanquol (of course you'll be throwing it out T2\3 rather than a ballsy T1 attempt) assuming you don't roll a bunch of 1-2's on the damage rolls like I have been. Can even swap out the HPA for Monks or Acolytes if you want. We have 4 threats here and you can easily take it down to 3 to include more support (such as Night Runner's, more Heroes, Clanrats, etc) if you feel it's needed. I dunno, curious on everyone's thoughts. I'm considering something else that drops Thanquol and you still take 3-4 Ratling Guns which would overall probably be more competitive.. but yeah. Stay safe people.
  22. Gwendar
    Since it isn't bolded\capitalized, then yeah I believe it's referring to the Engineer specifically. Hard to say 100% though as they both have the 'Warlock Engineer' keyword as you said. Also, potentially looking at re-testing Bridge for myself with Fiends. 2 games today, both being total losses; OBR and Fyreslayers. I was just playing incredibly poorly today and making decisions I normally would not (such as choosing to shoot a Liege Kavalos vs trying to cripple\kill Nagash) so I can only blame myself.. and 2x20 Hearthguard Berskers for tanking 30 Acolytes on a double turn (~40 damage one turn before their 4+ saves and ~50 the next turn) and still having ~5 models in each unit which is more than enough to wipe the Acolytes. Hermdar not having to take BS tests from practically anywhere on the board meant he wasn't losing any models anyway which is what I would've banked on normally. I will say one thing though... WLV went off in both games but wasn't enough to do much in either so I can safely retire it for the time being. I got lucky rolls of 11 +1 off with it both times but.. there's just too many points of failure with it and if it isn't rolling damage (I rolled lots of 1-3's on things within 1-2 nodes across 3 turns) it isn't doing much for 100 points. I could upgrade back up to a Bell for that or bring Night Runners. Anyway, I'm probably going to play a Fiend + Jezzails + HPA with Bridge at the monthly meetup in a couple of weeks.. I really want to give it a chance again, but I'm not holding out for it. Afterwards, I'll probably give Skaven a rest for a month or so to clear my tactical mind a bit as I've been playing them almost weekly for months now 😉
  23. Gwendar
    I'm still up in the air when it comes to the Bell.. so I will likely mess around with it. Even having 4 threats around is still nice.. having 5 is just for meme-potential if anything 😅... but I still think 3 is the potential sweet-spot. Doomwheels are a mixed bag just like WLC's which is why I think you should bring 2 if you go that route. Doomwheels tend to have more success for me on average than a single WLC. It's the potential threat they pose with speed and killing potential; they're a nice cheap candidate for taking lightly guarded objectives and being able to take out support heroes if needed. Of course... you could always throw in 2x10 Night Runners for board coverage if you need for the same cost which I think is a good alternative currently.
  24. Gwendar
    Hey everyone, wanna see something stupid that may\may not work and I'm definitely not considering? 2 Heroes is bad but.. so much death-death.. even without Death Frenzy. 5 Threats.. which, by the way is likely what we will see from the New Seraphon; lots of cheap things that when buffed become insane.. get some Saurus Guard around your CP generating batteries (who also have good casting) and.. well, I think they'll be harder to deal with than previous. Not to mention a double-turned Comets Call + Pyramid ability killing our heroes with no way to escape from it due to board-wide unbinding\casting of that particular spell but... that's a different discussion 😉 Anyway, will I try this list? Yes.. if someone want's to beat me to the punch, please do by all means and tell me how it goes.
  25. Gwendar
    https://aos-statshammer.herokuapp.com/ I have mixed results with WLC's like most people. but I think if you can fit 2 that's the best thing to do to get consistency out of them. I think if you can only fit one, you may be better off running a Doomwheel instead for the MW's, speed, and potential to 1-shot something that's hiding from all your other ranged. Currently I'm testing out 30 Acolytes, 9 Jezzails, an HPA and a Doomwheel with a WLV.. @Darkhan got me thinking about adding in the Doomwheel. Thing is, is that I could drop the AW I'm running down to an Engineer (I always run 2), drop the Doomwheel and WLV and suddenly have 320 points to play with that could be put into 40 Monks if I so desire. I think what I may try however is drop the WLV to throw in an extra CP to start and run Vermintide as it's been my go-to endless spell lately. Not that it is doing a lot of damage on average, but it sure is an annoyance to opponents in most cases and makes them think twice about movement\charges with certain things. I love WLV, but the meta has a lot of magic flying around and the reliability of getting off Skitterleap + WLV is a lot harder when things like LoC's, New Seraphon and Cities of Sigmar can throw out easy unbinds.
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