Skumbaagh
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Posts posted by Skumbaagh
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The last pages have had such a good content! Thank you a lot guys!
I have one concern about ironfist and that is I believe there is a good chance/risk that ironfist will be FAQed to activate in the beginning of the hero phase due to movement shenanigas with teleport. Either way one teleported unit of ardboys will most likely roll a 5 to charge in most cases with a reroll. (with +4 to charge)
On another note, as I read the rules for ironfist it seems like it cant only consist of ardboys due to the boss needing to be either a bruteboss or gore grunta boss (and that he needs to be alive). I suppose most people want to run at least one unit of gruntas either way - just a note thou as the rules says "any combination".
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1 minute ago, broche said:
they count in bloodtooth right? ahhh you need 5 units right. Well it's even worse than I tougth then
They doesnt count toward the maxed ironfist battalion.
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3 minutes ago, Lanoss said:
Thank you @broche and @Superninja appreciate the input. I’ll try it and see
Yes, @Skumbaagh I had the same query. I didn’t think Ironskull’s boys could be used... if they can... WHOOOOOO!
yeah no they can't
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5 hours ago, broche said:
@Malakree had a double krusha weirdfist and did decent at a tournament. It's the only record I can remember. About bloodtooth and double krusha, let just do a quick exercise: you want to get value from bloodtooth, you need some Brutes (they benefit the best from bravery boost). You'll also need some Ardboys/Gruntas to cover objectives. I'm already at 1840 pts.
So now I need at least a third Hero to at least benefit from the third artefact. So i'll take a Warchanter and Ironskullz. For artefact, brooch is no brainer, and daubing (could be cuisrass) for extra protection is never bad. Third artefact tough is pretty meh. I feel the lens would be the best choice for some added MW protection.
Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Hysh
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)
- General
- Boss Gore-hacka and Scrap-tooth
- Trait: Ironclad
- Artefact: Daubing of Mork
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)
- Boss Gore-hacka and Scrap-tooth
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch
Orruk Warchanter (80)
- Artefact: Lens of Refraction
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas
4 x Ironskull's Boyz (80)
Ironfist (180)
Bloodtoofs (120)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 107
Not too shabby. However, exact same list with Ironsunz and replace lens for golden tooth or boss skewer is just strictly better (you can argue all day, but no +1 run/charge don't worth a -1 to hit even if it's just 4 game out of 6, especially since we already have +1 to charge and we can't run and charge). Also you could replace 5 brutes by 10 ardboys and add a fungoid (1950 pts, same CP count but you'll might get triumph. triumph is also better than +1 to charge).
So bottomline, I find paying 70 pts for extra +1 to charge and extra artefact for an army that struggle to get wounds and model count on the board is quite hard to justify...
I guess Bloodtooth might be ok if you already have lots of troop and you want to stay under 6 drops.
Ironskullz boyz doesnt count toward the battalion requirement, so its a tight fit..
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31 minutes ago, Andrew G said:
Have to admit this is my first time considering allies for IJ, wasn't aware of the 1/4 rule. I thought it was just 20% of total points... it would be hard to even fit 3 into any IJ list. Back to the drawing board.
With the list you have you only need to swap a fungoid for a warchanter and you are done. That said i dont like missing out on the brutes. Claw and smasha really goes up to 11 with stacking waagh whilst ardboys got their 4+ to hit ruining their day even with waagh and great weapons. Equiping the brutes all with twohhanders also let them reach what need to be killed when it gets crowded. With so many attacks going on the loss of one attack for added reach is really worth it.
What is needed is something to debuff -1 to hit which is quite common these days. Bringing at least one warchanter is probably mandatory..
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9 hours ago, Andrew G said:
Here's my new build, I'm enjoying playing it more than the Gorefist and I think it's stronger as well in most match-ups. It still leans heavily on a CP engine for multiple high Waaagh! turns, but it's swapping in Fungoids in lieu of some combination of cutting points,battalions, Aetherquartz, and Prophet.
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)
- General
- Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Trait: Ironclad
- Artefact: Ignax's Scales
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas
Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 170
There's an overall loss in mobility and the CP generated are not as front-loaded compared to the Gorefist, but we're adding ~30 wounds of batttline,a strong magic phase, and a tankier Mawkrusher to survive long enough to utilize the CP generation. There's probably a good version of this list that utilizes footbosses, but I find the 15" range of Waaagh! on a pie plate too valuable (that, and you get to affect 14 wounds instead of 7 wounds w/ Ironclad, Ignax Scales, Realm Spell buffs, etc.).
I have tried quite a similar list but with 3 units of brutes and 4 units of pigs, a maw krusha, footboss (for redundancy and brute support) and 3 fungoids. I dont know if your list have a typo with the 4 fungoids instead of 3 as you must bring 16 units to get 4 allies. Also I think 3 fungoids is more than enough (I was swiming in CP.) 2 could do the trick as well and its doable to bring a batalion or bigger units.
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So I have been toying with idea of getting the most waagh out of the army. I realized playing for an early mega waagh with gorefist needed only spending points on extra command points as fungoids cost 90 points. They wont bring a lot of cp early game so I thought of an ironfist with medium speed but have had problem getting enough units in, I need 12 units for 3 fungoids. Sure one could go with only 2 fungoids but I rather commit to the waagh engine. So I figured why not bring a lot of pigs instead of an ironfist. Also I figured the pigs would cover the slow hammer which then could consist of only brutes. I have never felt I could count on ardboys killing stuff even when waaaghed, same goes with pigs. With 3 units of brutes most stuff will go down thou. One could easily change the footboss (whom is there for redundancy) to a warchanter or an extra unit of brutes. Or since I realised I now have 3 casters, I could bring an endless spell, perhaps a cog for setting the brutes in motion.
Game plan is to screen/grab objectives early with the pigs and run up the brutes behind to get in good position in cover behind the pigs or retaliate when they have died. Most likely one will go first which may not be a bad thing. I'd rather build up for a serious double turn though so bringing an ironfist may not be a bad thing after all. What's your thoughts?
Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Hysh
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)
- General
- Boss Gore-hacka and Scrap-tooth
- Trait: Prophet of the Waaagh!
Orruk Megaboss (140)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
- Allies
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
- Allies
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
- Allies
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
Total: 1950 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 270 / 400
Wounds: 138
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3 minutes ago, Malakree said:
This is correct, there's no need to roll for the squigs.
It states roll for each unit within 3". Gives the rules for mortals. After that it says "Then place..."
So either the rules aren't connected, and you always get the squigs, or they are and you get a unit of squigs for every 2+ rolled.
Clearly the second is absurd so it must be the first.
Which means I can safely model a squig in the mouth of the colossal.
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21 minutes ago, Ekrund Oath Splitters said:
MW. When he dies on a 2+ summons 5 Cave Squigs
Thx that was the answer I was looking for!
You missed out on the D3 MW to units within 3 inch on a 2+. Also I fail to understand the wording, isnt it the MW that needs a 2+ roll and that the squigs doesnt require a roll?
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Hey all! I am a bit of a skulking grot around here but sometimes I make an appearance. As my second army to IJ I emptied and sold my wallet for all the squigs one can need. Since I love the FW models I had to have me a gobba and a colossal too and now I am trying to figure out a semi competetive list.
Has anyone made the comparison between the colossal and the mangler? Even if the colossal is inferior damage wise (I dont know, is it?), I think it may have its uses with the extra dice movement and the squigs that popes out of it when it dies. -1 to hit is also really good. For my starting list I will try not to use the squig batalion because I think the rerolling of movement is not that good.
About the squigs fleeing from battle shock; if it happens in your turn, you would put out the MW before your opponent has rolled for battle shock, hence making the ability slightly stronger than if the squigs flee in your opponents turn, since then the opponent would have already made his rolls. Right?
About the squig hoppers I think they have their use when fighting for far away objectives with crippled units or such. Reaching that far away objective with 4D6 (or 3D6+6?) and killing off a model or two that is contesting it without risking losing a squig yourself. I am going to try them in fives for BL req and objevtive grabbing anyway.
Thanks for a great thread, you guys are really helpful!
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1 hour ago, Arkanaut Admiral said:
With what the Gloomspite Gitz book is doing (which I freaking love!), what do you guys think is the future of the Ironjawz? Do you think they’ll be merged with other orruk factions? Could the fluff support that?
As a new army for AOS my belief is that they wont be merged due to aestetics and being an elite army. Also those greenskins are kind of old, I dont think they will get updated. I think there will be 1-2 units, (perhaps with multikit options), 1 hero, a new tome and a couple of endless spells.
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4 minutes ago, Malakree said:
"Well" I went 3/5 and lost to the two opponents which mattered. Sure I made a bunch of mistakes and lost some key rolls which definitely contributed but I'm not sure I'd say it's done well competitively.
I can do a rundown if you want but it's not going to be more "what I've learned" and "what I'm guessing at" than anything concrete.
EDIT: So in conclusion, it's not super refined and I'm more of a theory crafter than a top level player like @Chris Tomlin or @Sangfroid go play it yourself, tinker with it. It's definitely a ton of fun to play and is far more enjoyable than +10 attacks Broach games in my opinion. With the Doppelganger nerf I'm not even certain what artefacts I would take though I am always tempted by Gildenbane just to ****** with people.
I got really excited about this list too just right when you posted it, tried one game, lost big time and then initially I thought the list sucked. That said, its very much up to the play style and skill of the player. Sure the list may not be extremely competetive, but I think at least in my case it was more about me sucking at playing it.
Something we miss (imho) when talking about lists is how we play them, or rather: deployment, the winning concept and how we handle certain situations and such. This is something I very much would want to learn more about and maybe these things could be managed in an easy to present way without walls of texts. Like a breakdown of key elements of the list and what to look for when setting up and such.
I really like learning about your thoughts on lists, to read battle reports and everything else in this thread, gonna keep on skulking about, so dont take this as a complaint!
I myself only fight competetive lists locally (daughters, LoN, slaanesh and nurgle at the time) and have had my few wins with gorefist. I am trying a weirdfist with a rogue idol atm. +4 to cast with arcane terrain is quite exciting! I dont mind losing as long as the game is fun and I get to smash, bash and stomp!
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40 minutes ago, ajax_xaja said:
Probably a stupid question, but I don't get to play as often as I wish I could. When purchasing a Bloodtoof battalion, do I also need to pay for the Ironfist battalion? Do I also get the Ironfist bonus/benefits?
Yes to both questions. Remember you need to field the realmgate to get the bravery buff. Also, the realmgate has new rules since last GHB which makes it do nothing. So no transport shenanigans.
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4 minutes ago, Congratz said:
Do you guys think Ironjawz will get an update in the new Destruction Battletome?
What new tome?(!)
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10 hours ago, Superninja said:
The other bit from the faq:
Page 123
– Ironfist, ’Ere We Go! ’Ere We Go! ’Ere
We Go!
Change to:
‘In your hero phase, if this battalion’s Big Boss is on the
battlefield, roll a dice. Each unit from the same battalion
can make a normal move of up to a number of inches
equal to the roll (they cannot run or retreat).
Do we have any thoughts on how the ironfist will play out with the new rule? Rolling sixes for a couple of units could be game changing as it was, both in the first turn but even more so later turns. With only one roll the threat range of the whole batttalion goes up from waagh! to WAAAGH! imo. I am sure someone here are doing math right now of how good this new rule is. Please share!
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3 hours ago, Carnelian said:
Mark my words: a new Ironjawz battletome will come with new Ironjawz models
Do you have a source you can tell something about without outing (is that a word?) or is it the normal "rumours has it..."
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5 hours ago, Malakree said:
Leaders
Orruk Warchanter (80)
- General
- Trait: Brutish Cunning
- Artefact: Mirrored Cuirass
Orruk Warchanter (80)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
Orruk Warboss (140)
- Great Waaagh Banner
- Allies
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (80)
- Allies
Battleline
30 x Orruk Ardboys (450)
20 x Orruk Ardboys (320)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
Units
4 x Ironskull's Boyz (80)
Battalions
Ardfist (170)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 220 / 400
Wounds: 196I'd skip the ironskulls and bring the cog back, when dead, the boyz need to get back into the action asap. (One needent summon the cog until after they are dead or such.)
Also I feel its too pillowfisted, need to try the list but bringing 1-2 units of brutes may be needed, and equip them with 2 handers(?) With the fungoid as general for some surprise shananigans, navigating the brutes in and out where I'd want them. Sure the list is about bringing back the boys and using them for all purposes but I dont want them stuck in a fight they need to win, but cant pillow through.
I think MSU is the way to go.
Allegiance: Ironjawz
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (80)
- General
- AlliesOrruk Warboss (140)
- Great Waaagh Banner
- Allies
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
Ardfist (170)
Chronomantic Cogs (60)
Total: 1890 / 2000 (Another caster or warchanter perhaps)Extra Command Points: 3
Allies: 220 / 400
Wounds: 158On another note. How do you guys feel about new allies and how it will affect our loved Ironjawz? We know/(think) moonclan will get an update at least. I really hope for some new synergies but believe most new grot heroes will affect keyword "grots" only. Is a block of 60 grots with a grot hero going to be mandatory in a competetive IJ list?
Excuse my linguistikz..
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So after some rereading of warscrolls i realized that funguid is not gonna be as good as i hoped for a 1st turn strike. that wholy within 18 doesnt do very well with rampaging destroyers. I had hopes to replace Gordrakkfist and save a sh*tload of points.
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10 minutes ago, Gobsmakka said:
A few things there I see going in this thread here that seem off, unless my understanding of this game is fundamentally off.
* If you're Ironjawz Allegiance, the fungoid shaman can't be your general. "In a Pitched battle, your general must be a Leader, and may not be an ally"
* Rampaging destroyers in Ironjawz can only be rolled for Ironjawz heros, not the ally fungoid shaman. If you were intending this list to be GA Destruction then your +1(IJ charge bonus) isn't valid.Also on a general note the one issue I would see with massive Ardfist is that Ardboys don't die very quickly, especially in large blocks, so you wouldn't be looking at getting them resurrected until at least turn 3, and wouldn't be able to move until turn 4. Its a big gamble because even though they come back, they may not be able to get into a position to be useful by the end of the game, or in time to save your spiraling victory point deficit.
Yes he can be a general. Its stated separately for the heralds. He just doesnt get an artefact.
I have been messing with lists with only ten man units but thought a blob of 30 may get killed early on when charging head on the first turn. I realize the opponent may choose to leave the unit when it reaches a low count,
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14 hours ago, Malakree said:
Aye I've gradually come to the conclusion that a massive Ardfist is probably our best list. Something like
Maybe something like that, ton of wounds, big blocks of Ardboys and fungoid to allow you to reposition if they try and pin your unit down or just to have the MK do multiple charges.
Hell maybe even go the whole hog.Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Aqshy
Leaders
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (80)
- General
- Allies
Orruk Megaboss (140)
- Artefact: Thermalrider Cloak
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
Orruk Warchanter (80)
- Artefact: Ignax's Scales
Battleline
30 x Orruk Ardboys (450)
20 x Orruk Ardboys (320)
20 x Orruk Ardboys (320)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
Battalions
Ardfist (170)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 80 / 400
Wounds: 203203 wounds which you can potentially bring back 180 of them. Most armies are not going to be able to get through that number of wounds with a 4+ save and a bunch of 6++ as well.
If I get this right one could doublerun and charge a blob of 30 boyz on average 29" with cogs, fungoid and a trigger of rampaging destroyers? 2*(4(move)+2(cog)+3,5(d6 run)) + 7(2d6charge)+2(drummer)+1(IJ charge bonus) = 19+10".
And then bring them back again..
Edit: realised rampaging destroyers need to trigger on a 6 as fungoid is the general. That trigger is worth 9,5" movement, gotta bring a lot of heroes!
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Yeah. Proclaiming that there will be x numbers of waagh in the coming combat phase is done in the hero phase. In 2.0 this means you spend command points on something that may not happen if all charges fail. I suppose this is due to the old wording on the warscroll from when command abilities was used in the hero phase and needs a slight change, but rules as written makes it so.
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I brought it up cause I played it wrong in a tournament last month and I also wanted to highlight it here since I think it's common that people do it wrong. Also I think IJ need all the help they can get and that the wording on the warscroll is out dated.
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4 hours ago, Brakkus said:
Pigs failed their charge and I didn't burn a CP to reroll, as I wanted to use both on waaagh rolls.
Do I need to commit command points for waagh in my hero phase or can I wait until the waagh is about to kick off?
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2 minutes ago, Imperial said:
I think we will get next wave next summer and after Shadespire stormcast vs ironjawz....
I acctually think our army is close to done model wise. One more unit at the most (whatever role it would have, shooting or something specialised, like mosterhunters or such?) and perhaps another hero which is more of a hope. A new battle tome thou, that is a must!
AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion
in Chaos
Posted
Hi all, and thanks for a great thread. I am normally lurking in the destruction forums but I have been really into getting myself a khorne dragon to play with.. Just got ghb19 and didn't find any points for vorgaroth in there. Did I miss something or is he no longer viable in matched play?