Malakree
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Posts posted by Malakree
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3 hours ago, Stompa89 said:
And if i try this list it wont fit under 2k points.
Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Shyish
Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- General
- Boss Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Trait: Brutish Cunning
- Artefact: Ethereal Amulet
- Mount Trait: Weird 'Un
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- Boss Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Mount Trait: Mean 'Un
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Killa Beat
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
Battleline
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas
Battalions
Ironfist (160)
Total: 2050 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 108
Yeah you're not getting double krusha, 3 support heroes, 6ggs and a battalion in your list while keeping it legal. Tbh you need to pick between 2 krusha, 3 support hero and the battalion. 2 is fine but all of them is just to much strain on the points.
When I ran double MK I didn't have a shaman.
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17 minutes ago, Stompa89 said:
But should i drop the brutes and just go for piggys?
The difference between a unit of 6 pigs and a unit of 3 is massive though with you having 2 mk they are prime targets for your +1 damage buff so...
Not sure, personally would never want to run ggs in 3s unless I really had to.
If you need to buy stuff then a second start collecting is amazing. All of the stuff in it is great.
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1 minute ago, Luzgurbel said:
You start with 3. You can either buy the Brooch or the Green visions to try to grant more cps.
So the first one requires 3 for an to do it all, while the second requires 4. Not saying you can't do it just saying it's CP hungry.
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33 minutes ago, Luzgurbel said:
Anyways, With the MK moving 24 I think he can be close enough the Brutes to give them the charge reroll, I think. Furthermore, if Im not misunderstooding the rule, I can teleport the unit and then mighty ravager' them, right?
Yes, so depending on how you did it you can
- Teleport them out of 12" then move them with MD giving an 8" charge
- Teleport them, MD to charge with a reroll, if that fails charge with a RR in the charge phase.
You are guna be so CP hungry though.
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1 hour ago, DestructionFranz said:
I hope the Gitmob will be back soon.
Two week after I finished to paint 80 of them, they squat the army. 😞
Use them in Gloomspite armies as grots.
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1 hour ago, NauticalSoup said:
@Malakree Those are some nice lookin' boys.
Can I ask what's up with the base colours? Especially the two-tone ones. Does it mark out units or officers or somesuch?
Two tone ones? You mean round the bases those are just to seperate the units out. I've actually just done the all blue now.
Colour scheme is real simple.
Base blue is just Macragge Blue, heavy coat of Drakenhoff Nightshade, drybrush Chronus Blue, drybrush white.
The lighter blue is a teal of some kind, maybe teclis blue hard for me to tell since I have something like 10 different blues. Then just do the same wash/drybrush.
Red is Wazdraka followed by the same wash/drybrush
Green is Waaagh Flesh. Beil-tan Green, drybrush Nibet Green, drybrush white.Basically everything I do is base colour --> wash --> drybrush --> drybrush white. Not some of the more intricate pieces like the MK or my Troggs but yeah really simple way to make it look alright with 0 effort. The detail is just how much extra base colours I add before I wash.
EDIT: Think the greeny/blue on the orruks is Teclis nlue base.
As an example for the MK Before I washed and drybrushed it 😆
These are a more extreme example of the same principle. Scales are Xerus Purple, Wash Druchi Violet, drybrush: Macragge, Altdorf Guard, Calagar, Hoeth, Lothar, Baharoth, Blue Horror, White in ever lighter coats.
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14 hours ago, Ravinsild said:
what color would look good on his Maw-Krusha? White? Blue? Black? Red?
red on red feels too much. White, Green and Red are complimentary. Blue might clash. Black is kind of basic. Could do a purple MK? Idk any suggestions?
Honestly you can get away with anything as long as you're careful. These are mine and you can see that despite still being blue the cabbage stands out.
One thing I would say is pick something bright for the MK spines around the fist/face and down the back, they frame the model and stop it from being a single colour block.
In your case having a dark red/black cabbage with yellow spines should help it stand out if you wanted.
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14 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:
Speaking of the big Battalions - and not that I would go there - but would I be correct in thinking that they are technically Matched Play legal?
They have points in the current GH19, and everything they containt still exists.
Bloodtoofs Warclan in a Bloodtoofs Battalion for +3" to charge?
Ironsunz and Ironsunz for neg 2 to be hit in the first Battleround, and loads of CPs?
Or even Ironsunz Warclan in a Bloodtoof Battalion, to get those countercharges cranking at +2"?
The opportunities are endless, for anyone gamey enough to go there!
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/6f127a6b.pdf
QuotePage 18 – Ironjawz Pitched Battle Profiles Remove the following pitched battle profiles:
• Bloodtoofs
• Ironsunz-
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21 minutes ago, Lanoss said:
Take Bloodtoofs then bud @Ravinsild
A MBMK or two
And a whole bunch of Goregruntas in a Gorefist.
1. Gorefist moves 9”2. MBMK mighty destroyers 12-14” up
3. Hero can mighty destroyers Gruntas up another 9” not necessary but possible4.. MBMK moves 12-14” up
5. Gruntas move 9” up6. Everything charges with +2”!
Theres your turn 1 @Ravinsild
I'd go ironsunz instead personally. You lose the +1 To charge but everything is -1 To hit instead.
Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Ironsunz
Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
Orruk Warchanter (110)
Orruk Warchanter (110)
Orruk Warchanter (110)
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
- General
- Trait: Dead Kunnin'
- Artefact: Great Green Visions
Battleline
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Pig-iron Choppas
Battalions
Gorefist (130)
Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 129
Massive alphastrike potential and the -1 To hit really negates The retaliation potential.
The cabbage and both units of pigs should hit with +1 damage and with dead cunnin + ggv you should have ~4 CP on turn 1. That's enough to MD and still have your charge in the enemy charge phase.
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21 minutes ago, Lanoss said:
Furthermore on the Brute topic.
If you want to run brutes and want them to be as efficient as possible, run them in a Da Choppas Clan. It mitigates their bravery issue, gives them reroll charges (so no cp lost there) and their warchanters can buff multiple units. I’d say using a bunch of them with a footboss general with say boss skewer. Then MBMK with whatever load out you’d like along with a fat unit of Gruntas.
Imo if you're doing that you forgo the cabbage, take a brutefist and as many brutes as you can fit.
Something like this
QuoteAllegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Choppas
Leaders
Orruk Megaboss (150)
- General
- Trait: Checked Out
- Artefact: The Boss Skewer
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Killa Beat
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
- Artefact: Great Green Visions
- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
Battleline
10 x Orruk Brutes (280)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
10 x Orruk Brutes (280)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
10 x Orruk Brutes (280)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
10 x Orruk Brutes (280)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
10 x Orruk Brutes (280)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
Battalions
Brute Fist (120)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 175You're brutes are running at bravery 9 near the megaboss, you have hand of gork to try and do some teleport shenanigans and GGV to throw out some extra CP's to funnel into the +1 damage on your brutes.
The brutefist cuts your drops down, gives you the artefact/cp and means that you're brutes are inflicting mortals on the charge giving you a lot of potential MW output in the charge phase. You are really heavily focused on making them work though and going to be slow. On the plus side anything which comes near you will be blendered and you put a TON of wounds on the board.
27 minutes ago, Lanoss said:I feel IJ builds are fairly obvious when looking at the clans.
ironsunz = MBMK focused.
bloodtoofs = grunta focused.
da choppas = brute focused.
Ardboys are just a good (albeit expensive) battleline choice to fill inAt the moment Ironsunz is the clan you run. Everything else is tailored for a very specific theme list, see above, with no general usage.
If you're thinking of running "clanless" just play big waaagh! instead. The primary reason to go clanless is the trait and artefact which you can have in big waaagh with better allegiance abilities.
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27 minutes ago, Superninja said:
Love the brute models so much!! I miss the old brute boss.
I wish that brutes had a little something more. Re-rolls, extra charge, the -2 rend we used to have... Better bravery is so needed!
Whenever I look at their warscroll, I keep feeling they should have the "Strength from Victory" rule. (like megaboss) This isn't the buff I'd want. But it feels right. It would probably be too much bookkeeping, but it could be fun.
Bravery 7, Special weapons hitting on 3s, merge the two boss weapons to be the same thing so that it's an aesthetic choice not an equipment choice. Remove the stupid +1 hit rule and add two decent abilities to the warscroll. Even something like reroll charges would be a massive boost to them.
Hell ****** the bravery 7. "Brutish Frenzy: At the end of any phase in which this unit killed an enemy model or damaged an enemy hero increase this units bravery characteristic by 1 until the start of your next hero phase."
"Duff Up Da Big Fings: At the end of any phase in which this unit dealt damage to an enemy model with a melee weapon and that model isn't slain roll a dice. If the result is less than the number of wounds that enemy model has remaining that enemy unit takes d3 mortal wounds."
There we go, two rules which are thematic, interesting and have positive scaling with the other parts of the book rather than negative. If you build your list into it you could potentially have +3 bravery at the end of your turn and +5 by the end of your opponents, while the other ability allows them to rip down high wound models but gets progressively less effective the less wounds the target the has. It also defines their role as separate from GG's/Ardboys.
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1 hour ago, NauticalSoup said:
Apparently, units that are incredibly strong for their points are also garbage? Maybe your definition of garbage is just things that are poorly designed? Whatever it means to you, it's something I wouldn't recognize. Carry on.
A warscroll can be garbage and undercosted. I guess we're actually hitting a terminology difference here rather than a real disagreement.
I call them garbage because they have a bad warscroll, I also call them overcosted because they aren't worth the points paid for that warscroll especially when taking the faction context into account. You're merging these terms together and thus slightly misinterpreting what I'm saying.
They need to drop 10/20 points because right now they are to close to the godscroll that is Goregruntas. That's what they are competing against not ardboys.
2 hours ago, Ravinsild said:Was their old Warscroll better?
I remember a time when they took the shields away as a 6++ FNP from the ArdBoyz and suddenly they were shelved en masse and Brutes were king. Now it's flipped. Was their old Warscroll better?It's a couple if things. +1 hit is way worse than reroll hits, especially since we have boatloads of ways to give time +1 to hit. Excluding that largely irrelevant bonus they have no special rules, literally none. They are stat sticks with mediocre stats.
You also lost the klaw and smasha, that is such an unbelievable nerf on so many levels. Most obvious being that brutes no longer have -2 rend, so instead of being a unit designed to hack down large tough opponents they are now ardboys with no special rules and more attacks per model. The klaw/smasha also gave you two separate shots at landing your big hits, even on 6s if the klaw hits the two smasha attacks hit automatically. You essentially rolled once for all your attacks then rolled again if the first one missed.
In addition we lost the +attack stacking. A brute boss with +4 attacks was a hero in it's own right. 5 attacks any one of which caused 6 auto hits at 3+/-2/d3 was insane.
So you've gone from a warscroll with several rules which interacted amazingly with other abilities to a blank warscroll that doesn't use the other abilities properly.
For example, one of the key differences is that brutes get 2 damage special weapons, problem is that they hit on 4s which gimps them. More importantly we have the Warchanter who gives +1 damage. The difference between mostly 1 damage and 2 damage is massive, the difference between mostly 2 damage and 3 damage is mediocre. To put this into perspective, with the Warchanter buff the average damage of a 4 attack brute is HIGHER than the average of a special weapon even if the special weapon is can spike more.
It means the end you have a blank warscroll, with some bad stats (3 wounds, 4" move, bravery 6 is horrific) special weapons that aren't much better than normal weapons and get relatively worse with the faction based buffs.
Honestly they needed 7 bravery, 3+ to hit on the specials or -2 rend on them. Oh and some actual abilities.
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42 minutes ago, NauticalSoup said:
So then your definition of 'garbage' is 'anything sub-optimal'. They compare unfavourably to Ardboys, obviously, but that's because of shoddy internal balancing - Ardboys, at their current points, are almost certainly undercosted for all the free extras they get. Even with the downsides though they can do the job, and better than similar units in other books - they just look way crappier standing next to a cheaper, more efficient unit that does the exact same job and is also battleline.
They compare unfavourably to almost all good units. I'd easily take 10 savage orruks over 5 brutes.
The issue is they don't DO anything. They don't fit a role in the army and if everything was costed around them then I'd be going back to my gloomspite. The best comparison is Rockguts, they are considered ~mid tier and are the same points.
- Rockguts move faster
- Have a 5+ armour save but a 5++ after save (which is better)
- Can heal in the hero phase.
- Are about the same resistance to battleshock (but have the loonshrine immunity)
- Have a point click d3 mortal wound ability.
- Rockguts 6 attacks 3+/3+/-2/3 (6.6+/-3.5)
- Brutes 10 at 3+/3+/-1/1 and 7 at 4+/3+/-1/2 (6.1 +/-2.6)
Oh and Rockguts can fight over the top of each other for no penalty. As a unit Brutes are 100% dependent on the Ironjawz buffs to not be a mediocre overcosted warscroll, problem is those same buffs are equal or better on Ardboys, who are a solid warscroll at a good price, or GG's, who are an amazing warscroll at a great price.
42 minutes ago, NauticalSoup said:If you could take 'Brutes' as battleline in Stormcasts I imagine you'd see them in virtually every army.
Aside from the fact that being able to deepstrike them would make them way better you do realise that stormcast are a bottom tier army atm?
EDIT: Oh and for reference, I would consider them garbage if they cost 90 points for 5. I'd play them because they are undercosted but I hate their warscroll so much.
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16 minutes ago, NauticalSoup said:
Also Ardboys are one of the literal best battleline units in the entire game, so comparing SLIGHTLY unfavourably to them would still place Brutes in high tier.
Ehhh...mid tier. They lack the bravery, survivability or other abilities to be high tier.
17 minutes ago, NauticalSoup said:Do people say Brutes are trash? I'm pretty sure people just say they're mathematically inferior to Ardboys when you aren't fighting a lot of 4+ wound enemies, and that they have poor bravery. I don't think either of those statements are controversial, and neither of them prohibit Brutes from performing.
I mean, I personally say they are garbage. Bravery 6, 4+ save, no after saves and slow as hell is pretty awful. The only thing Brutes do is concentrate firepower in a small area.
Take his Ironjawz list though, swap the 10 Brutes with 6 GG's, the 5 Brutes with 5 Ardboys and I'd call it a way better list. Withouth having seen him play tho I can't be 100%
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39 minutes ago, TALegion said:
Essentially, there's no reason to not take all of the bonus equipment since they're all positive buffs. So just build all of your models with those bits first and then make regular dudes with whatever's left
You get 2 regular dudes per 5 minus one for the boss.
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16 minutes ago, Ruudy said:
Anyone knows which lists ends 3rd and 10th on the CanCon event?
There is no players name in the stats, so im not able to match that with the lists pdf.
Thanks!
Ask on twitter. The AoS community on there should know
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2 minutes ago, bigpaul0909 said:
gotcha, do the sc boxes come with 2sbgield per 5/1 drummer option/5? i havent looked at the sprus i dont have them yet.
They should come with enough bits. You need to see the sprus really cos they are a bit odd.
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21 minutes ago, bigpaul0909 said:
So i have my 2 sc boxes coming in this week, should i build my ardboys with shield? is that more Meta at the moment and lose out on an attack?
Look up the new warscrolls.
You need 2 shields per 5, 1 drummer per 5 and a banner or icon per 5.
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@Ravinsild Personally I think the only clan worth taking is Ironsunz. Otherwise you go clanless.
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9 minutes ago, TALegion said:
I think if I were to adjust it for use with realm artefacts, I would go with a Brutish Cunning, Ethereal Amulet, Weird 'Un cabbage.
I ended up getting a heat 1 ticket last Thursday so just reused the list. I swapped ironclad for British cunning and it was way better.
9 minutes ago, TALegion said:This is the first list I've ever run without Hand of Gork, which is a big change, but Gorkamorka's War Cry was equally as useful in different a way. I didn't get to make use of Foot of Gork because I was playing against ogors, but having that as a hordekiller option is also pretty useful since IJ lists don't really have access to anything like that.
Yeah HoG is great but perhaps not as big as people think it is 😉 Had a near mirror vs @Skeekrit and he was getting them off before finding he couldn't really use them.
On the otherhand fist of gork pummeled him several times over the course of the game.
Don't forget you can also just throw a mystic shield on the cabbage which is huge aswell.
Edit: Oh and metal rippers was consistently amazing across every game. He chewed up and spat out everything because of it.
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4 minutes ago, Requizen said:
I honestly hadn't thought of that, a super good option. My only issue is that once the Idol boogies down the table, the Warchanter is basically doing nothing if the rest of the force is Bonesplitterz only. If you're Big Waaagh, he's still generating points I guess, and can block reserve stuff, but still not really super impactful.
Just run him up behind. You don't need him in combat and he's still a hero so gives you IP AND reroll charges from him.
He's also not terrible with the +1 damage on himself.
6 attacks, 6s to hit explode on 4+/3+/-/2 with 6 wounds and a 4+ save.
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47 minutes ago, OkayestDM said:
Honestly, Ironjawz are much more new/starter player friendly than Stormcast are. You're gonna have a lot of fun!
Definately agree, they are probably the best starting army in the game. They are simple, solid, uncomplicated warscrolls which get a lot of depth from the allegiance abilities.
Rob from the honest wargamer has described Ironjawz as the army which keeps everyone else honest. If you try to do much gamey stuff Ironjawz will just come in and mess you up.
Tzeentch at heat 1 was an amazing example. Everyone hated duplicitous host but the one time I faced it I rolled over it.
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51 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:
so I can make pretty much any list I guess. I’m just not sure what combination or how many units or drops or whatever.
I ran this at heat 1 this weekend and I played vs Ian for 4th game 5. Game was won on the turn 2 priority so definately a strong list.
Also plays the first turn far more cautious than Ironjawz which sounds like it would fit your playstyle.
If you don't have a wurrgog swap him for a weirdnob and upgrade the 5 brutes to 10 ardboys.
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56 minutes ago, bigpaul0909 said:
this is super helpful, thank you so much, i just wanted some guidance before wasting my money again lol.
I'd skip the Footboss and go straight for a cabbage, it's a solid centre piece that just does what it's supposed to and has a ton of utility. The footboss is actually a niche support piece that's quite hard to use effectively and is counter intuitive to his warscroll. I have a footboss, he's a great model but he sits on the shelf doing nothing and has done for 2 years.
1 hour ago, TALegion said:Brutes are debatable. The long-story-short for them is that is that the closest comparable unit is ardboyz, and ardboyz have a couple useful perks that makes them more versatile than brutes (e.g. higher leadership, a couple 6+++ saves, +2 to charge). Brutes do the most damage per-point out of the three battleline units, so they're a good mid-game hammer, but many lists choose to run ardboyz over brutes. Imo, the choice between Brutes and Ardboyz down to personal preference and how you want to use them.
The problem with Brutes is that they have more damage than Ardboys but are weaker in every other regard, this wouldn't be to much of an issue on it's own but the warchanter giving a unit +1 damage on all their attacks takes that "more damage" and makes it such an insignificant amount.
Ignoring the £ cost the direct comparision is 15 Ardboys (270 points) vs 10 Brutes (280 points)
- Brutes have larger bases and less models.
- Same number of wounds.
- 10 points more expensive.
- No 6++ shield save.
- Don't get the +1 bravery from 10 or more for the first few casualties.
- No +1 Bravery banner or -1 Bravery banner.
- No +2 to charge Drummer.
- Brutes with +1 damage do 21 (+/-6) damage on average vs a 4+ save.
- Ardboys with +1 damage do 19 (+/-5.2) damage on average vs a 4+ save.
So Brutes slightly outdo Ardboys is on damage (by about 2), except we already have Goregruntas who are absolutely amazing damage dealers and way out do brutes in that regard. GG's with +1 damage on the charge do 25.5(+/-6) and have impact mortal wounds, oh and they are way less likely to battleshock.
Essentially there are only a few things you need to buy.
- A Mawkrusha
- As many SC as you want until you have as many GG's as you want.
- Boxes of Ardboys when you've got all the GG's you want.
- Probably a Weirdnob
- A Wurrgog Prophet if you plan on playing Big Waaagh!
Everything around that is a luxury.
If I was forced to give a "this is everything you need" list it would be: A Mawkrusha, 4 SC, a box of Ardboys, a weirdnob and a wurrgog.
That gives you 12 GG's and 55 Ardboys which is basically every and any variation you want.
AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion
in Destruction
Posted · Edited by Malakree
You've also got the old classic gorefist