Malakree

I think one thing you are missing out on is the value of those impact mortal wounds occurring on the charge not during the combat phase. Charge phase mortals can bust holes in defensive lines/formations and there are some very dirty potential tricks. This is especially true when you consider the mawkrusha destructive bulk+stomp combo. 1 extra mortal could be the reason your MK gets to punch through the line and get to stomp again.

I've got a tournament coming up on the 25th, this is the list I think I'm running. Allegiance: Ironjawz- Warclan: Ironsunz- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line- Triumphs: IrrelevantLeadersMegaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)*- General- Boss Choppa and Rip-tooth fist- Command Trait: Mighty Waaagh! Leader- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)**- Boss Choppa and Rip-tooth fist- Artefact: Armour of Gork- Mount Trait: Fast 'UnOrruk Warchanter (115)**- Warbeat: Get 'Em BeatOrruk Warchanter (115)**- Warbeat: Fixin' BeatBattleline10 x Orruk Brutes (320)*- Jagged Gore-hackas- Reinforced x 110 x Orruk Ardboys (170)**- Reinforced x 15 x Orruk Ardboys (85)*5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)* Units 3x Orruk Gore-gruntas (150)*- Pig-iron ChoppasCore Battalions*Battle Regiment**WarlordAdditional EnhancementsArtefactTotal: 2000 / 2000Reinforced Units: 2 / 4Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 127Drops: 5 It's actually a variation on my current big Waaagh list but swaps the wurrgog+wardokk+lifeswarm to just take a second cabbage. Unfortunately I don't have the third painted yet so I can't try triple. Will test how I feel with 2, previously I just felt it lacked board presence and the cabbage was either squishy or weak. Hopefully the updated rules should fix both those issues. @Warbossironteef Swap the brutes down to ardboys to free up points. 5 Brutes aren't a hammer and the dual wield didn't get the rend upgrade. 10 ardboys is 10 points more expensive and has more wounds with an inbuilt ward save on 40%. You could easily go to 10 Brutes and 2 units of 5 ardboys. Another really great option would be to put an arcane tome on the footboss and use emerald lifeswarm. It's healing effect is great and you can do some dirty positional stuff with it if you're clever. EDIT: also that list needs to be bloodtoofs. You aren't getting value out of buffing up two more units of 5 but being able to charge after breaking your opponents screen not only gives more impact hits but massively limits their options.

It's 1960... Drop one of the brutes to ardboys and grab a 2nd WC instead.

Brutes would be the 2 handed hakka version. The 2" reach means they can fight in 2 ranks and the hakka just got bumped to -2 rend! Any pure IJ list atm is going to be comprised of lots of goregruntas (if bloodtoof) or a solid core of brutes supported by a couple small ardboy units. As to the WC proxy, I have no idea would depend on local clubs or the tournament you are attending. Always ask first.

I'd say all the kruleboyz stuff is solid atm. For ironjawz 10 Brutes with the -2 rend option and a warchanter will be your starting point, the warchanter is 100% whatever you do for the +2 Waaagh points. Gordrakk is actually really solid in big Waaagh atm due to his CA multiplier being usable on destruction not just IJ. I'd always recommend a wardokk to go with your wurrgog, it's a combo I absolutely love and have used extensively since the first warclans book dropped. It only got cheaper now which is awesome. Allegiance: Big Waaagh!- Grand Strategy:- Triumphs:LeadersWurrgog Prophet (170?) - GeneralWardokk (85?)Gordrakk the Fist of Gork (560)Orruk Warchanter (115)Total: 930 / 2000 That gives you ~1100 points to fill out how you want. Your battleline options are gutripperz, savage orruks, orruk ardboys and orruk brutes. Ardboys would be your "I want to spend as few points on battleline as possible." A unit of 10 Brutes at 320 is scary as hell atm with a warchanter buff. Savage orruks would be your hard to shift huge blocks. Gutripperz are the slightly more expensive/threatening and less tanky large block. I would probably recommend a start collecting ironjawz, that gives you the warchanter and 10 (5+5) ardboys which combined with your savage orruks is the battleline sorted and you get 3ggs aswell. After that it's whatever you fancy

@Boggler @Carnith I think the big thing about ardboys is they are now solid points per wound and a pita for people to shift. There was a really dappy which was a foot hero or two then just the rest as ardboys. Throw insane wound potential out onto the board and force your opponent to deal with it. Probably runs a weirdnob with the +cast ability with a unit of 15 to try and dump into your opponents deployment zone turn 1. Only issue I could see is not having the dps for the gargants. Imo all the units now have their strengths and place which is nice. I do think if you're looking to hard invest I'd recommend the kruleboyz. Not least because it opens up big Waaagh for you to mix and match, an MK is a really solid choice for big Waaagh atm due to his CA duplication.

No Comment... Mass monster spam both scores heavily (due to all the extra do x with monsters) but also bleeds vps heavily.

Personally I think a proper bloodtoof list is going to be nuts atm. Your ability to get across the board and tie down the enemy in the first turn is insane, he pure utility granted by the bloodtoof trait is nuts. The general strategy you will be aiming for is to seize control of the board and lock your opponent off the objectives using the after combat move. It also helps how ridiculously wound efficient gg's are now. If you go for a really heavy gg list, this is 30 of them, you're putting a metric ton of highly mobile wounds on the board which can redeploy after the combat phase. It's bonkers the amount of space control you can manage. EDIT: Imo the IJ is probably the weakest part of the book with kruleboyz being the strongest. That said there is definitely some power in the IJ (at least 4-1 on multiple lists) and it's not that extreme. Note: The new Megaboss warscrolls all have the TOTEM keyword, which means they can use CA's at an 18" range regardless of being the general.

I think hackas "might" be better, definitely for larger blocks. It's really close though. My main reason for the swing would be that the primary time you will use GG's now will be in bloodtoof armies and the end of combat phase charge means you get a second shot at the impact mortals, so having them on a 2+ is actually really hefty. You put the wc buff on an MK then use the gg impacts to try and blast a hole through your opponents line.

There's a command trait which lets your general use Mighty Destroyers even if another hero has already used it that turn.

It's why the MB/MK being able to hit multiple targets with CA's is so important. You can use IP on 2/3 Brute units at once, we are guna be super CP hungry though. EDIT: I have them but it will be ages before I paint them up. Personally I aim for ~4 drops as it gives you the extra enhancement and allows for the 2nd mawkrusha. With that in mind you're probably looking at something like this instead The 2nd mawkrusha means you can mighty destroyers 6 units a turn(!) which is conveniently a mawkrusha and 2 units of ggs. Plus the MK is just another huge threat on it's own.

The MD might get FaQ'd otherwise it's a pretty huge nerf. I can't see the bloodtoofs ever letting you attack, that would be bonkers. The fact that there is no downside to picking a subfaction makes them all great. Ironsunz is your standard, da choppas is for infantry focused builds while bloodtoofs is your gg focused builds. I love the current iteration of them, don't forget that while bloodtoofs/choppas are free utility with 0 cost the ironsunz is actually a CA. So if you trigger the Ironsunz CA off an MK you can charge with 3 units now not 1. EDIT: @Boggler you should be running bloodtoofs with that list and just drop the brutes/ardboys. Use the after combat move combined with alphastrike to seize control of the board. EDIT2: After playing around with lists I think if I were doing a 1 drop alpha it would be this As far as alphastrikes go this is top tier. Your opponent will be bogged down for at least the first 2 turns while you seize the board and really pressure. I'd say the other viable lists are double cabbage and/or infantry heavy lists.

Ironjawz gets Smashing and Bashing, Ironjawz Waaagh! and the clan. Big Waaagh! gets waaagh! points and cross faction utility. Honestly I think they are about equal atm depending on how you want to build your list. I'd say most Big Waaagh! lists should be getting ~5 WP a round before charges etc. When you add in charges etc. I'd say it's turn 3 you're going off but the list building is way less restrictive.

Na, just you have to be with 3" of enemy units. Nothing about being near your own unit. Even the oldest version was just "the closest IJ unit".

I'm really not sure that's now the bloodtoofs ability should work. That seems nuts, especially on the Waaagh! turn, you could comfortably put 4 units of GG's and 2 MK's in combat turn 1. On the otherhand for a single CP a MK can now have 3 units make a charge at the end of the enemies charge phase

So initial thoughts skimming through the review video. Battle Traits etc. Where has my +1 to charge gone? Why has it been rolled into the waaagh, why would you do this +1 rend for a turn is awesome and the fact its board wide is just fantastic! Ironjawz waaagh isn't a command ability. Mega bossy is the return of double MD, absolutely awesome. Mighty Waaagh! Leader is interesting for the no CP charge reroll bubble on the Waaagh! turn. Touched by the Waaagh! is actually quite a cool option, potential +3 to cast and also gives a point click d3 mortals. Intresting with the Arcane Tome artefact as it would give you a 2d3 mortals for your hero phase. The Megaboss Artefacts are alright. The mount traits are all actually kinda cool. Could easily see a use for all of them. Spell Lores/Clans FOOT OF GORK IS BACK BOYS!!! A bit nerfed but still awesome. Ironsunz is still great Bloodtoofs and Da Choppas warclans aren't abilities, they are just passive abilities! The new Bloodtoofs ability is crazy good. Strategies Show 'em who's boss is bad. It's just a worse version some of the core strategies Waaagh! is slightly different than hold the line, generally will be worse but situationally could be good. Krump 'Em All is a cool option. Tactics/Battalion Time to Get Stuck In! is an amazing option to have, Limited to turn 1 and 2 but it's still awesome. Squish Da Puny Gitz is an amazing late game tactic, there are plenty of games where you can pick this after having already completed it. Destroyer of Empires is lulz. Ironjawz Fist, I mean it's not bad...I'm just not sure I'd ever use it over hunters of the heartland. Gordrakk/MK Gordrakk got the always general rule! Destructive Bulk is actually pretty fricking solid. Smasha and Kunnin are now both a flat 2 damage/mortal wounds which is way better than the old d3. Sweet Holy Gods Voice of gork and Skull-shacking Bellow are bonkers good, fricking amazing. The ability to target 3 units with each CA rather than 1 is just unreal. Riptooth Fist makes you a 3+ save. Honestly, I fricking love everything about it, it's awesome. Megaboss 8 attacks now which is solid. Ear-Splitting Bellow makes this guy a real choice now. Targets 2 units with a CA rather than 1. Can pile in and attack when killed! Warchanter/Weirdnob Warbeats are now on the warscroll not an ability, so you always get 1 per warchanter but can't get a 2nd using enhancements. Brutal power is now with 12" of 10 Ironjawz models, not wholly within 12" of a unit with 10. Green puke is still bad Brutes Wait...Wait what. Enemy models with a wounds characteristic of 1 with 3" cannot contest objectives. Holy gods. Ardboys Pretty hefty nerfs on the profile now the old 3 attacks 4+/3+/-/1 Bravery 5 and the banner is +1 (so 6 total) Drummer is now +1 to charge not +2 Shields are now a flat 6+ ward If the unit uses the rally ability while wholly within 12" of a friendly warchanter you reinforce on a 4+ not a 6+ Goregruntas Apparently we are bravery 6 across the board now.... Impact hits are now 3+ or 2+ if they have the spear. Otherwise it's the same. Points/Roles Ardboys are 85 for 5 as battleline, actually pretty solid. With the reinforce rule a unit of 15 could be a real pain to shift. Brutes as battleline at 160 feel fair with the new rules. Footboss is down to 140 which honestly makes him a steal. Warchanter is 115. 90 points for a weirdnob shaman, ok that actually makes him a pretty good choice. 6 wounds for a 1 cast wizard isn't actually bad. Goredrakk at 560 seems actually pretty solid. MK down to 480 is also great. Goregruntas are now 150 for 3 but only batteline in bloodtoofs! Thoughts Actually I'm really happy with how this turned out. Ardboys/Brutes now fill distinct roles as the core of any IJ army. The ability to multiply your CA's from megabosses is just amazing, combine that with all 3 of them getting buffs and it's super nice. The points reductions for foot characters is just so good and the warclans are ace. Honestly other than a few things missing which I really liked (my poor +1 to charge) yeah I think this is great and pushes us in the direction that IJ should be going. EDIT: Ok I missed the Mighty Destroyers no longer letting you pile in and attack, that's a horrific nerf which possibly outweighs everything else.

Spell Portal is made for stuff like this. Combined with some boltboyz can just remove his dirty ginger beard from the board before he does anything.

I'd have thought you'd just reduce the banner to +1 in that case. On the killaboss with stabgrot warscroll it has So it's not unreasonable to think there might be a similar rule for the riptooth fist.

It's the functional equivalent of every other unit in the game getting -1 save, while it may not seem massive remember that a unit of 10 brutes is often going to be buffed with the +1 damage. That's the difference between -1 and -2 vs an unbuffed 4+ save. You're more likely to do 12+ damage with -2 rend than you are to do 10+ with -1. It's actually really important. I'd rather they just removed save rerolls. I really hope it's a full blown 3+ and not a 4+1. It's a massive nerf that hits them in multiple different ways, both the -1 to hit and the loss of the rend are painful enough dropping to bravery 5 is just kicking them when they are down.

I don't disagree, the question was originally asked if I would rather have a Killaboss on Gnashtooth or an MK if his save was dropped to a 4+. That's the comparision on a pure raw stats, with the 2 Gnashtoof being 100 points cheaper and the big block being 5 points more expensive. Yes they fill different roles and have different purposes but in statistical isolation you would take the block of boys everytime. It has so much more board presence in the current 2+ unrendable save era. The mawkrusha would profile instead and can't be in two places at once. The point was that statistically the MK is just worse than 2 Gnashtoofs which are 100 points cheaper. God I hated it so much, with the exception of the klaw boss. I got dice cups which have exact numbers of dice just so that I could do the dice maths quickly. On the plus side Brutes look devastating now.

2 killaboss on gnashtooth are. 20 wounds with a 3+ save. 8 attacks on 3+/3+/-1/2 that do 2 mortal wounds on a 6 to hit instead. 8 attacks at 3+/3+/-2/2 Meanwhile the Mawkrusha is 18 wounds with a 4+ save 9 attacks on a 3+/3+/-1/2 8 attacks on a 3+/3+/2/3 Statistically there isn't much difference between the two. If I wanted a direct comparision of what I'd take instead it would be a killaboss with stabgrot and 20 Gutripperz. You get a 3+ on the killaboss, he gets the lookout sir, there's 40 wounds of gutripperz which can only have 1 model flee from battleshock and it's 45 attacks which do mortals on 6s.

Holy gods, what on earth could have convinced them that any Ironjawz units need LESS bravery..? hopefully we get a corresponding points drop to ~75 for 5. Big one I want to see is the Footboss warscroll. If he still has a 3+ save it suggests the riptooth fist is functioning like a shield, if not then at least kruelboys seem to be bonkers.

And a 200 points reduction in cost, easily. EDIT: Sorry did I say 200, I meant 300. Oh and those 4 attacks he makes actually just do flat mortals on 6s to hit instead. So the real question is. Would you trade a Mawkrusha for 2 Killaboss Gnashtoofs and 100 points in change?

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