Malakree

Maybe try grabbing a prismatic wall because Foot of Gork doesn't actually require line of sight. Help protect you from any nasty ranged threats. I wouldn't go for the dispell ball, to much change of it backfiring on you. Cogs is great though, it gives early movement and then swaps into an extra spell cast for the shaman. Equally the Umbral Portal is pretty funny, you can use it as the origin for your cast meaning that a well placed portal will let you abuse Greenpuke hard. Remember that it is also affected by the Weirdfist and gets the 6" from the Balewind. You would be averaging 18"+2d6" range with d3+2 mortal wounds from the weirdfist, pretty fricking vicious. With balewind or cogs you could cast both easily, with both you could do spell portal+Foot+puke from inside the enemies line.

I think it's got to be the Hysh reduce spell damage by d3 because the sheer quantity of rolls against the spell mirror is going to drop it. With Kroak doing d3 multiple times d3-d3 is going to be much more preferable. Additional a malevolent maelstrom might be something to try against him so that you can get as many unbinds as possible. Blade of Secrets could be a hilarious idea but it requires you get into combat with him and I don't think we have any small base flying heroes do we? As an extra question, could a slann on a balewind teleport using their stupid teleport stuff? Reading through the rules that doesn't seem to be stopped in anyway. Man I hate that allegiance teleport so badly, it's such a stupid mechanic that should only be usable on skink or saurus units without the Hero or Monster keywords.

No. The only way a unit can be in two battalions is if the battalion is part of a mega battalion. Also it's good to know gws complete inability to balance seraphon continues. Just remove engine of gods and the teleport.

As a note ironjawz get considerably weaker at 1k because our stuff costs so much. At 2k you are adding way more power to your army, relatively, than he is. Yeah...I don't think there should be any dice fixing or rerolls on the engine and I agree it should be unique.

Definitely, I make a point of getting all the new stuff just so I have the options. Also I don't stick to any one faction so I might end up running a more midrange in the future. I think that's where the board will really shine. It also reduces the relative power of the +1 damage stuff somewhat because you can achieve the same with a push or knockback. Should introduce a ton of tactical decision making.

One question is can you place objectives onto hazardous hexes. That would ****** objective decks so hard. On the other side of it looking at those boards there is so many ways to place obj to dumpster an obj deck. Getting the board placed against you might mean lengthways but gods the obj deck is going to so extended to get anything.

I think the big thing we will see is warscroll specific CA being one per character each turn. Would also be really cool if they changed the WAAAGH! To be activated at the start of any combat phase aswell. So you spend the CA and use it at the start of the combat phase instead of your hero phase then it activating in the combat. Would also let us use it at the start of an opponents combat phase since it no longer requires we have a hero phase before it. That would be such an amazing change. Combine that with frenzy of violence lasting until your next hero phase, soooo good!

There are no rules which stop it. I asked at the open day and the rules writer couldn't find one.

Every time I forget that it's stupid. It really should increase charge range till the end of the turn and add 2 attacks for the following combat phase.

@Superninja I think this has actually come up before and we decided it didn't. @Mortaal basically covered it. It's another great example of how the ironjawz rules are vague compared to the modern ones. If you are going to a tournament ask the organiser before you submit the list. If it's a friendly game just tell your opponent it's vague and I suspect you will be allowed. To expand. I believe the key word is "following" where it activates specifically for that phase. Sorry for misleading @Rock Lobster what command trait was on the cabbage?

Honestly we don't know. We know allies can't have allegiance specific artefacts but up till this point we haven't had access to none allegiance based choices. Hopefully it will be in the faq soon. Would be such a massive boon if the realm artefacts could go on allies.

Nope I lied, was fooled by the arcane wording of the stupid rules books again.

Page 49, first row. It's nicely hidden as a footnote under "Army Roster" just above the picture.

If you want to be from Shyish then the Ethereal Amulet on an MK seems like a solid choice. Considering that Ironclad is such consistent trait for an MK this is, in a lot of ways, just an upgraded version of it that trades your Artefact for a Command Trait instead. Without having to take Ironclad suddenly both Brutish Cunning and Prophet of the Waaagh! become solid choices. On the otherside of it a Banshee Blade is potentially hilarious with a few WC buffs. This is only amplified with the buff to the Boss Skewer, potentially combing it with Suffocating Gravetide and Ravenak's Gnashing Jaws. -3 Bravery means even Death units are now more likely to take the MW than not, Low Bravery units like skaven or grots are screwed. EDIT: To be honest a battalion is almost Guaranteed in Ironjawz now, with that being the case the big G is looking WAY nicer, especially since you don't have to take him as your general. For example is pretty filthy, the 3d6+3" charge makes the Brutefist charge far more likely to go off and combos fantastically with the +2 attacks from the big G. Potentially replace the Weirdnob with a Fungoid to try and do it multiple times a game.

Foot of Gork is my favourite spell in the whole game, it's awesome. Is he 140 points better though, that's the big question. Would you rather have the big G with no battalion or a normal MK with an extra unit of GG's. EDIT: As a note, whoever said that you don't generate a new general in matched play was correct. It's really hidden in the GHB rules but it is there.

It would be Age of Order first

Interesting fact, so under "Running" it says you add it to the movement characteristic for "that movement" phase. So this means if you trigger the Ironjawz movement twice on a single unit in a single phase you could run the first time, adding D6 (call it X), so your move characteristic is now 12"+X" then when you trigger it the second time, and run, you now roll a D6 (say Y) and add it to your move characteristic. That characteristic is now (12+X)"+Y". So you double up the distance on your first run movement. Combine that with the auto-6 from a CP and you have a MK going 18" followed by 18+d6" in the hero phase. theoretically you could have the cabbage sprint across the board into range of the fungoid so it can then charge. There's also the old "Charge in Hero Phase + Fungoid CA + Charge in Charge phase" stuff which is so gross. Seems filthy.

The second as the idea before was with a unit of 30 you could trail your shield boys out behind and still trigger the second or 3rd move on them. So getting 18" move off the IJ proc. Now it's going to be hard to trigger even one proc on a unit of 30 because all it takes is one of the models bases to be slightly out of the 12" and you can't proc it on them. It's obviously intended to stop exactly that but it's another of the nerfs by proxy to the max squad Ardboys. Consider before you have 15 2h and 15 Shields, you have the damage half of the unit spread out in a line 30" at the front of your deployment zone, you then have the shield boys grouped up next to the hero block. Before you would trigger the furthest away hero and then move the whole squad 6" forward but leave one boy in range of the other heroes while tailing out the other shield boys. Repeat this continuously to have the front line move 18" forward (edge case) then trigger the Ironfist move, then move normally then make a charge with +3 (IJ/Drummer). Your squad just engaged a whole portion of the enemy line. Then you start taking casulties and making the saves with the shields and just remove from the back so that after the first 10 boys have died you have a contiguous unit again focused around that front line. When I lay it out like that it definitely seems ridiculous but it was part of what made the 30 strong squad good. In the same situation now you couldn't even trigger the first 6" move because your line is so wide it doesn't fit in the aura.

He absolutely is tournament competitive. You run him with a gorefist for a vicious alphastrike. Is the post being referenced. Be aware that it is now dated and some of it is no longer correct. Ie. The multiple moves from the ij allegiance.

Added a new pair of tables above, again in response to @Jgroover This is the same but with Brutes, obv they benefit the most from a Waaagh! so just running the WC buff vs no WC buff at 1 Waaagh! lvl with RR1s (Very easy to get them now with damned, Footboss or 4+ wounds) So at 1 Waaagh! Brutes gain 3.35 ish extra damage, (this ignores the extra rend on the smasha because everything is on 6+) Variance change is +0.46 Same Situation but for 10 Ardboys who gain 3.34 damage Variance change is +0.67 Finally for GG's who add 3.53 damage Variance change is +.83 So in terms of the gain on average damage from a WC buff it's GG's > Brutes = 2h Ardboys however it's actually very similar across all the units. If we then compare the change in σ we see that for the reliability of the damage increase it's Brutes > 2h Ardboys > GG's. Based on that it looks as though your best target for the Warchanter buff is Brutes > 2h Ardboys > GG's Given that Brutes are hitting on 3s for most of their weapons and auto hitting if the claw hits, plus have RR's out the ****** the second WC buff is irrelevant to them. Equally a large part of the GG's attacks are going to cap at 2+ from the first WC. Lastly including the Ardboys with 1 WC Buff to 2 buffs A flat increase of 3 damage with no increase in variance at all. Conclusion The targets for a WC buff should generally be 5 Brutes > 2nd buff on Ardboys > 1st buff on Ardboys > GG's. That is an incredibly interesting result I would not have expected, solid call there on checking that math.

@Jgroover Running the numbers through Druchii.net for the different ones with a single Waaagh! buff and the opponent having a save of 6+, obv it's not great but it includes the rend into the numbers. For Ardboys For Gore-Gruntas with the 8" charge. In terms of pure raw numbers Ardboys are ahead by a pretty significant margin, even up to 2σ. Ardboys cost ~14% more than GG's so if we increase the GGs 1σ by 1.14 we get an average of 2.94. This means that point for point the Ardboys are a better average with less variance compared to the GG's who have a worse average but higher variance (potential). A very interesting math but I think they are close enough that it's less relevant than the other differences between the units. Ty for pointing it out though, surprised me aswell. EDIT: Single Waaagh! with 1 WC buff Full attacks with 1 Waagh! and WC buff This is where the GG's really pull out ahead in terms of the WC buff. Their raw number of attacks is high enough to make it worth it over the Ardboys. All of this assumes a 6+ save ofc so is situational, also assuming d3 damage from the charge because it's more obtainable now.

Hence why I also referenced all the other changes which have also occurred which make the choice less appealing with this being the final nail. Blocking 1 in 6 mortal wounds IS massive for a unit which has 30 wounds over 15 models. Due to how it stacks up you are on average adding 7 extra wounds to the unit with 15 shields and because of how large the Ardboy base/unit is it's almost impossible to get the unit entirely into combat anyway. End result is that you take part of the unit with shields and part with the offensive weaponry, like the big choppas. This means that you are getting the best of both worlds. Losing the Mortal Wound protection is really painful for their ability to tarpit effectively, which is their main role. Roll in the points cost decrease and we now only save 30 points for going up to a massive unit. The increased power of a Mega-battalion which requires a full Ironfist Objectives no longer giving priority to units of 20+ Increased usability and power of the Waaagh! making having 6 Ironjawz in range all the more key. General improvement in our ability to resist devestating battleshocks Many of which now require you to be wholly within range Like the change to the Ironjawz trait which means you can no longer daisy chain Ardboys to get 12-18" of IJ movement if it procs All of those then combine to make taking a single unit of 30 not particularly beneficial against just taking three units of 10. It costs you 30 points more but gives far more flexibility and is much more resistant to a whole bunch of affects that count unit size. Also at unit size 10 battleshock is basically a none issue because of their banners and the above mentioned moral buffs, so Bloodtoofs, Boss Skewer etc. Overall there are a whole bunch of changes which occurred tangentially to make 30 Ardboys much less appealing and the lose of the shield MW save means that large mixed weapon blocks of them aren't as good at tarpiting aggressively. I think 120 would be good or having his Waaagh! increased to 15" instead of 10". That's his biggest restriction imo, it's so much harder to get a proper Waaagh! off compared to the Cabbage. A range increase would be worth the extra 20 points.

This isn't actually an issue. If the MK is your general then when he dies you immediately elect another general, so another hero. You then get to generate a command trait for them. Choosing Prophet of the Waaagh! gives that character the Footboss' Waaagh! anyway so you can always do it as long as you still have heroes.

Both... The ardboy thing, for me anyway, is to do with the unit of 30. Yes the mw save was a key part of why they were good as a massive unit, it's removal really hampers them as a large tarpit unit, especially in light of how good bloodtoofs now is. They are still ok as 10s but some of the other changes aswell, goldentoof, nullify their other advantages like being good vs battleshock, daisy chain for buffs etc. Finally the ironjawz move now being restricted to wholly within 12" is the last nail, a key tactic was to fire them across the board with a ton of hero phase movement and pin the opponent in their deployment. The rules dude at the open day couldn't find a reason against when I asked. Will read again later. Was fricking knackered.

You are correct, at the time I was just to busy facepalming over the whole thing. I mean it's not like I made any comments about this or anything a while ago. After all that would be ridiculous EDIT: As an additional note the first idea of it came from @svnvaldez in this post