Malakree

I'd recommend asking in the Bonesplitterz thread, they can give you much better advice in terms of specifics of bonesplitterz. Definitely seems like that's the way you want to go though!

****** i missed that, I assumed you wanted the warboss for the bouncy with the Squig Hoppers but yeah the fungoid was actually my first choice Gives you access to the bonesplitterz spells as well which are also really solid.

I would drop one of your units of savage orruks to either regular orruks or gitmob grits with bows. That would gain you an extra cp! Also you could see if you can fit a snagga rukk in! Hell man up and go for broke. Here's a bonesplitterz version of that list. Allegiance: BonesplitterzMortal Realm: HyshLeadersWurrgog Prophet (140)Maniak Weirdnob (120)Maniak Weirdnob (120)Savage Big Boss (120)- Granite ChoppasGrot Warboss On Great Cave Squig(100)- Moon Cutta & Git Shield- AlliesBattleline10 x Savage Boarboy Maniaks (280)10 x Savage Boarboy Maniaks (280)10 x Savage Boarboy Maniaks (280)Units20 x Grot Squig Hoppers (320)- AlliesBattalionsSnaga Rukk (170)Endless SpellsQuicksilver Swords (20)Total: 1950 / 2000Extra Command Points: 2Allies: 420 / 400Wounds: 160

Maybe try some spearchukkas if you've got them and nuke down his bloodpriests. Battalions like that are really vulnerable to hero sniping. Edit: can I also suggest the following filth list. Allegiance: IronjawzMortal Realm: HyshLeadersMegaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)- General- Trait: Prophet of the Waaagh! - Artefact: Mirrored Cuirass Orruk Warchanter (80)- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch Orruk Warchanter (80)Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)Gordrakk The Fist of Gork (580)Battleline10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)5 x Orruk Brutes (180)5 x Orruk Brutes (180)3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)BattalionsIronfist (180)Bloodtoofs (120)Endless SpellsChronomantic Cogs (60)Aethervoid Pendulum (40)Total: 2500 / 2500Extra Command Points: 2Allies: 0 / 500Wounds: 127 Just blitz him off the board.

Specifically fw models all have pitched battle profiles and warscrolls produced by GW which makes them matched play legal. There are some tournaments that will say "no forgeworld" etc. or at a more casual level some people might object. Ultimately you can't force people to play against them but if it's a tournament they are essentially forfeiting.

The no charging if you use Ironfist to retreat is pretty much the one thing that seems guarenteed. The issue here is specifically that you have a warscroll ability instructing you to make a charge, you can't choose to make the normal move instead of the charge. As a result it seems that's the allegiance would let you make the extra charge. If you are attempting to make a charge without using a warscroll or allegiance which lets you do that having fallen back then you can't declare a charge in the charge phase.

You have an old pdf you need to dl the new monstrous arcarnum

So as an extension of the question brought up by @jondoe297 there's something that I've been looking at which seems funky and am wondering if anyone can come up with a reason why it doesn't work. Specifically it's for the following sequence. Ironfist move to fall a unit back out of combat. Mighty Destroyers trigger on the unit. Unit makes a Charge move. Now down to why I'm asking this. Firstly the Ironfist and core rules say The core rules thus don't define a "retreat" as a different type of move. It's an addendum to a normal move rather than it's own type of movement. Since the Ironfist lets you move as if it were the movement phase this means you can use it to retreat. Next is the Mighty Destroyers trait and the Core Rules FAQ part which matter. Thus while a unit couldn't normally attempt to charge having retreated with the Ironfist it CAN make a charge because of a Mighty Destroyers trigger. Question then is. Have I messed up anywhere, has anyone already been doing this and I'm just a numpty? Personally I always just assumed you couldn't retreat with the Ironfist move but that doesn't seem to be the case.

You can, the Ironfist specifically has no restrictions on running or moving later in the phase. I don't remember where but I think I read something which implied to me you couldn't use it to retreat. Something to do with not being able to use it while within 3" of an opponent. I'll have a fish through the FAQ's and see if I can pull up a reason. EDIT: Apparently I'm wrong on point 2 at least. EDIT2: Checked the Ironfist wording. It says "can move as if it were the movement phase but cannot run. So while it doesn't say "normal move" it is because it predates that term. So yes you could retreat but no you can't charge later. Going to look up the Ironjawz rules wording, think there might be some shenanigans here.

Personally I magnetised the hell outa my MK's just to make them more transportable. One thing I would definitely recommend is doing it for the boss to the MK and the bosses banner off his back. This means if you paint your cabbages up to look distinct from each other you can transfer your bosses around them for variety when using them.

Basically this Allegiance: IronjawzMortal Realm: HyshLeadersMegaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)- General- Artefact: Mirrored Cuirass Orruk Warchanter (80)- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch Orruk Warchanter (80)- Artefact: Lens of Refraction Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)Battleline10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)5 x Orruk Brutes (180)5 x Orruk Brutes (180)3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)BattalionsIronfist (180)Bloodtoofs (120)Endless SpellsChronomantic Cogs (60)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 2Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 118 The key point is the Broach and Bloodtoofs. It wasn't supposed to be a competitive tournament and I felt bad about it afterwards.

So there's a few things which are important. First is that an average ~3.5" of movement nearly doubles the move characteristic of the units which need it. Second there's the extra CP, which is "50 points" on it's own, then you get the second artefact and lastly it reduces you down to the mid-range number of drops. That last one is something I found is way more important than you think as armies generally fall into one of two categories. "I want to decide whether I go first or not" and "I don't care whether I decide". With an Ironfist, our average drop count is at around 6/7. This obviously won't give you a choice against one drops, like bloodtoofs, but it will reliably give you the choice against any army which even vaguely sits on the fence. Lastly, as The Big G is one of the main reasons to NOT go Bloodtoofs, you still want a battalion to go with him. Assuming you aren't going Gordrakkfist then the Weirdfist is really....well weird with him. It doesn't synergise properly and feels like the two portions of your army are fighting against each other. In that regard the Ironfist is the clear winner. In the end it really comes down to what level you are after achieving. If it's topping the grand final, go look at another allegiance because honestly we are not even close to king at the moment, or if you want the strongest army IJ can put out at the moment it is probably Gordrakkfist. Other than that only the Brutefist isn't a 3/5 or 4/5 (on a good day) imo. Just don't take the Brutefist and you'll get something that is pretty solid.

So I just want to add here. @DerZauberer is "correct" in that everything he has said after his initial assumption is true based on that assumption. The true power of a standard Ironfist, as opposed to a Mega-battalion of either variety, is that you don't need to max out the battalion. This, combined with the 120 points spare from the Mega-Bat and the fact the MK is no longer required, makes a standard Ironfist infinitely more flexible than a Mega-Battalion list. To illustrate this point here are two lists which hit the absolute minimum requirements to be legal at 2k. Given how expensive Ironjawz units are, across the board, the flexibility and lack of restrictions (two separate things) allows you to have a much more personalised list. As an example try building a Bloodtoof's list with 30 Ardboys in it, having done so it's incredibly tight on the points and essentially mandates what list I'm running. With only a basic Ironfist I can comfortably fit two units of 30 in and still have points to throw around. Additionally, as @DerZauberer pointed out, you are just putting more models and wounds on the board, this is not something to overlook. If you are going up to the full 5 stack Ironfist at that point, in my opinion, you are better off swaping into either a Mega-Battalion or a weirdfist. 120 points to get +2 bravery across the board is a god send, that's before you add in the third artefact or free CP. Another great point to bring up is the one which @Backbreaker asked about a few pages back, that being any list which doesn't use a Cabbage. In that case it was a question about using Gordrakk with an Ironfist, something which we fall 20 points short of doing in a Mega-Battalion. The Big G is actually one of the best reasons you would take an Ironfist without taking Bloodtoofs or Ironsunz, the Weirdfist just doesn't fit with him. Conclusion In a lot of ways Bloodtoofs is the modern incarnation of our old Ironfist lists however in reality it's actually a small sub-set of the broader Ironfist lists which work for all the same reasons. If you are considering which of the two to use it really comes down to asking yourself how drastically your Ironfist list will change to become a Bloodtoofs. If it's just "I have 1 shaman instead of 2" grab the Bloodtoofs, on the other hand if it requires you to add in two whole new units and drop a bunch of stuff then those are actually two different lists that will play very differently. In that regard play with both and see what you prefer. To give you an idea, this is the list I was using prior to AoS2, against the one I'm using now, to show how some lists don't transfer straight over. One thing I would say in particular is notice the huge difference in how many wounds/models I'm putting on the table.

If I was going to do it I would take probably 4/5 units of 10 and then use them to screen. Push them right up the board as far as possible so that armies which hit really hard run into a giant speed bump, then ideally let them have priority turn 2 so that you get the endless spells move first and they waste their turn trying to get through the Ardboys. At that point you can probably bring back 2-4 units on YOUR turn 2 and fish for the double yourself. Hell it's a bit of a funky list but this would be a laugh at least

So I'm checking Errata's for something else and just had a reread of the Ardfist rule. So Inputing this into the Ardfist. So a few thoughts. This ironically removes the requirement that it be used in your Hero Phase. While this is clearly a mistake currently there is no restrictions on WHEN we use this once per game. So if our opponent makes some long range charges that put the Warchanter into combat unexpectedly we can use the ability reactively before it dies. As it says "Any units" this means that if, when we use it, all the Ardfist other than the WC is dead we get all the units back. Theoretically if you hold it back you could resurrect 1500+ points of Ardboys. With proper placement of the first unit of 30 Ardboys you could force units 2 and 3 to be much further away from the Warchanter that is obvious. 6" is really ****** close for a unit that gets +3 to charge base. This seems a bit filthy... Opinions.

As @Andrew G and @PlasticCraic said it's to do with the Aetherquartz Broach, an artefact from Hysh. I had a turn 2 engage against a Nighthaunt army in a throne of skulls tournament and got 8 Mighty Waaagh! running off 3 CP's, I rolled one 6 (was running Ironclad not Prophet) and had 9 extra attacks with every weapon. At that tournament I averaged 5 bonus attacks from stacked Mighty Waaagh!

You have not seen a unit of 5 Brutes with 9 extra attacks on every weapon. The MK doesn't need it...

Can you get onto a key character or unit and kill it before they start buffing up. So for example if you can get a huge Waaagh! running and slam into a stardrake before it starts getting all the lantern buffs making it unkillable. If so take first turn. (This is known as an Alphastrike) By the same token, can you seize position allowing you to deny your opponents control of the objectives and force the game into a long grind where you hold the objectives for all of it. If so take first turn. If either of these are not true OR you don't think you can soak a double turn then give it to them and deploy in a fashion that lets you stop them properly alphastriking you back.

With the Waaagh! stacking, a warchanter buff and the 2h they can pump a TON of damage just from the sheer number of models. Assuming you only get 3 Waaagh! running on T1 that's 30 extra attacks on 3+/3+/-1/1 which is pretty solid and easily achievable. If you pull +9 attacks, gotta love that Aetherquartz broach, you are doing 110 attacks from a unit that costs you 160 points, it's a level of disgusting that's unreal.

Aren't they on smaller ovals than GG's? Just checked and they are. How about Gitmob Wolf Riders instead. You lose a wound per model but it drops to 90 points and they have a 4+ save while there are 5+ models, You get free wolf bows with them as well. Additionally the wolf riders move 12" instead of 9", get +2" to run and their banner is if there is no enemies in 3" rather than requiring it. As a screen I would say it depends what really comes to the forefront as the strongest army type. If it's magic then you want the Savage Boarboyz, where as against shooting you would want the wolf riders. If they aren't running melee I'd rather have the wolves for the longer charge range to pin stuff in combat.

So the +2 to move and charge really can be massive but it depends on both procs and battleplans. If you get any Ironjawz moves it makes a ton of difference just because it functions as +4" to move and +2" charge ontop of the normal +4 for the proc. For the battleplans that are 18" apart when you combine it with all the other buffs most of your army will get in combat. The problem is the same as why it can be so good, it relies on procs and battleplan. Personally I love the Bloodtoofs, however that's because of the +2 bravery rather than the charge range which is more a nice perk. I'd say the cogs are "slightly" overrated but not that much, the thing is there are so many good options and it is just the most obvious one. To give some examples the spoilers below are some potential lists. All of these lists are still 1 drops, still bloodtoofs but have a slightly different spin depending on how you want to run them.

It's definitely viable you just have to work out what kind of list you are building. So far I think we have 4ish viable builds which are distinct. Gordrakk + Gorefist - This lists works by taking priority turn 1 and trying to cripple your opponent out of the game before they can do anything. A classic Alphastrike. Classic Ironfist - Very versatile and reliable there are a huge number of varieties for this, a staple of Ironjawz. Bloodtoofs - A relatively new list made stronger with the release of Chromatic Cogs. Very restrictive from a list building perspective it's power is in just how quickly it can go. It straddles the divide between the first two. Weirdfist - Far more defensive than the other options we have. What used to be a gimick list has really come into it's own with AoS2 and Malign Sorcery due to the reduced cost of both the battalion and the Balewind plus all the increased defence against sniping the weirdnob now has.

So if you swap the gorefist to an ironfist it becomes a standard ironjawz list instead of the alphastrike list. Losing the 15" of movement makes your engage far less reliable. On some battleplans the enemy can deploy far enough back to deny you and you risk part of your army getting in. Gordrakk works with an ironfist, but you are looking for a turn 2 fight most of the time not alphastrike. Specifically the gordrakkfist tries to take priority turn 1 and hit the opponent before they can buff.

@ImperialI love the idea of Prophet of the Waaagh! and Aetherquartz broach together, it's such a level of filth. Honestly Ironjawz is such a vicious Alphastrike army now. The two core lists I see us building are the Goredrakkfist and Bloodtoofs with cogs. Both of them can jump across the board suddenly and tear someone a new one. I played several games at Bravery One British Open last weekend, i found I was very much jumping across the board suddenly and deleting key portions of their army. Even when I got jumped on by a vicious DoK army, which forced me to go first then double turned me, the remnants of my army still managed to dive through various gaps and kit key stuff. Had I been in a better frame of mind and some house rules not been in play I could have easily have minced them. My most memorable game was probably against triple stardrake which involved me going first and deleting everything other the stardrakes and putting one down to 4 wounds. I do wonder if there is a slightly more conservative list revolving around the fungoid and and double MK. Use the Ardboys/Ardfist to take up space and stall the game giving you chance to position for a turn of both cabbages getting potential double charges with the Fungoid Shamans CA. Not to mention it would be an absolute nightmare to shift something like this.

I was at Bravery One British Open last weekend and there was a Braggoths there. I don't know how it finished in the final standings but I think it was mid tables when I saw it.