Malakree

Ok seeing the points I have the following opinions (assuming the new warclans book doesn't come out with 3.0) Ardboys once again become the shizz. They went DOWN by 5 points and are battleline at 5 models, super efficient. Brutes are once again useless, are boys are just better with that price split. As is the footboss. GGs are still solid with only a 10 point increase. Mks/Big G are about the same as before relatively. Warchanter 10point increase is expected tbh. Allegiance: IronjawzLeadersMegaboss on Maw-Krusha (495)- Boss Gore-hacka and ChoppaMegaboss on Maw-Krusha (495)- Boss Gore-hacka and ChoppaOrruk Warchanter (120)Gordrakk (580)Battleline5 x Orruk Ardboys (95)5 x Orruk Ardboys (95)5 x Orruk Ardboys (95)Total: 1965 / 2000 So so tempting... EDIT: Or This LeadersMegaboss on Maw-Krusha (495)- Boss Gore-hacka and ChoppaMegaboss on Maw-Krusha (495)- Boss Gore-hacka and ChoppaMegaboss on Maw-Krusha (495)- Boss Gore-hacka and ChoppaBattleline5 x Orruk Ardboys (95)5 x Orruk Ardboys (95) 3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (170) 5 x Orruk Brutes (150) Battalions Battle Regiment Battle Regiment Total: 1995 / 2000 3 Drops...not terrible

Please god no... I could see them turning the warbeats into CAs though rather than a 4+ trigger.

Imo the troggboss with grip gets a huge boost with the new coherency rules. Even more so when you consider that +1 save is now so much easier to get for a lot of factions. The new stormcast look very smushable!

It is worth noting however that units of 3 GGs will count as 6 models for objective purposes which is a pretty huge boost for them. As it stands at the moment ardboys look to be the big losers, especially with heroic recovery pushing bravery increases up in value.

It still functions as a small terrain piece since that's what it was originally sold as 😋

Double monster trigger is really nice and they are still a huge threat. Heroic actions are also amazing. I'd use them for different roles with one being hyper aggressive and the other playing more defensively. I've always favoured a control by threats and high pressure type game and a damage based mawkrusha slamming into you is just as scary as it always was. Especially now that it's pretty easy to get them to a 2+ save. Add in the reduced board size and fact tjey coubt for 5 on objectives suddenly they are pretty damn terrifying. Mystic shield, +1 damage, mighty destroyers, normal move, reroll charge if failed. That's ~31" threat range on a 40" board for a model with 8 attacks at 2+/3+/-3/3 and 2+/3+/-2/4 who also has a native 2+ save and -1 to hit. As far as "deal with it" moves go that's pretty much the top end right there.

That's why I'd potentially go Big G, is if I wanted the drops to be lower. The previous list would be for the double CP+Enhancement though. EDIT: Honestly though I wouldn't bother for low drops with a double cabbage list. If they give you first turn you bum rush with the damage cabbage while trying to kill stuff, then blow finest hour on theirs. If they take first turn you're fine anyway. It's the big power of Ironsunz.

One bash forward two smashes back. Personally I was contemplating something like this The fungoids there because flying brutes is still one of the greatest things I can think of and Ghostmist is super nice, not to mention Mystic Shield on the Sunblessed cabbage is one of the best things I can imagine. using all out defence it has a 2+ save vs -2 rend which is nuts. I have to admit though I've always had a thing for double cabbage lists

Now that I've had some time to think on the AoS3 core rules I thought I'd give a run down of my thoughts. Basic Stuff Mass CP's is amazing for Ironjawz, we have a bunch of good abilities with solid targets for them. The inability to use a single CA more than once is horrible for IJ, means no multiple Mighty Destroyers etc. Smashing and Bashing just went through the roof in value, Lots of small units means that combat priority is now way more important. Plus lots of small units makes it that much easier to trigger. Unit champions can now issue CA's on their own units. Considering every unit we have has a champion that's unreal. Rally is stupidly good if it goes off on a key unit, we should probably be using this every turn due to the quality of every model we have. The battalions are a little awkward for us. The best one require 3 heroes which is very limiting. All-out defence is so so so good. "Enhancements" Limited access to these is painful. Brutish Cunning dropped in value quite hard. Armour of Gork is now unusable due to not stacking with Rip-tooth fist. (not that it was ever good) The Boss Skewer weirdly got better because it gives your hero +1 to it's heroic recovery..? Having extra mount traits and artefacts competing for limited enhancement slots now is painful for double MK lists. The spell lore enhancement is so so good if you're running a lot of wizards. We've always been limited by the mandatory nature of Hand of Gork. Ironclad is really mediocre due to all out-defence existing. Sub-Factions All 3 of the Clans became better far better, I'd almost say that having any clan is now strictly better than no clan. Each of the CA's became way more usable and far more impactful due to overabundance of CP's. Sunblessed Armour is amazing now that all-out defence is a thing. Means a 2+ save is easily a thing for your Megaboss. Da Choppas is now awesome. Smaller boards means Vandal Hordes comes into play much faster. Rabble Rouser helps counteract having more small units and the CA abundancy makes it way more usable. Checked out go the same buff that The Boss Skewer did. Having Bravery 10 for Heroic Recovery would be damn nice. Units Big G got a pretty large buff. Voice of Gork has always been damn good. Limited enhancements actually helps him a lot. Not having access to a Traits or Artefacts is no longer a real downside. There's a solid argument to be made for taking Big G as your MK and a different hero as your general as the only thing he needs is the mount trait. Universal Enhancements also help because you can now take your warchanter as your general and not be punished. GG's now count as 2 models for the sake of objectives! Overall I'm actually happier with the new rules than I was when I started this. We get a lot of benefit from a couple of different things and the CA flood is amazing. All the extra CP's combined with Heroic Actions and Monster abilities are really solid while the boosts to the subfactions are super nice. Big G is probably the main winner just due to being unique. Just hoping the points changes aren't super unreasonable. I'm really looking forward to using more double MK lists!

That's what I thought /facepalm

Question. A Megaboss on Foot has 7 wounds. They also have strength from victory which causes them to gain a wound at the end of the combat phase if they killed one or more models. Does this mean if a Megaboss gains 3 stacks from Strength from Victory, thus now having a wound characteristic of 10, suddenly loses the look out sir bonus?

Ooph I missed that the same CA couldn't be used twice. That's a massive nerd for ironjawz compared to big Waaagh!

Also the new pile in rules combined with the rockguts attack range is super sweet for them. Makes coherency meaningless to 6 rockguts.

Take it on an MK with Metal rippers. 8 attacks, damage 4, rend 3...

Nope what it says is it cannot be further from it's starting location than it's move. Hence why I specified an oval doing a move around a unit, specifically something which can't fly. In this case say you have a move of 18" and the path moves around a unit due to the orientation the oval itself is rotated at the end. Now because you've moved in an arc, your whole base is within 18" despite the fact that a part of the base has, in doing so, moved ever so slightly further than it's move distance. As I said it's splitting hairs and I'd not even bother trying it in a tournament however rules as written the technicality exists... It's massive because some of the old tricks you could do which prevented an opponent moving around in combat no longer work. An example being that the 3 points of contact which would prevent an oval from moving no longer works, as long as the model is in base to base with a single model from the enemy unit it is "as close" to the unit as it started.

That's pretty huge, nearest enemy unit not model. Doesn't say what happens if 2 units are equally close though. Technically doesn't specify that part of the models base can't move more than it's move distance. If you have an oval base, move around a unit and end up behind it, you could then pivot so that one of the "oval" bits is moved further than technically allowed but is not further than it's move distance than it started in. Real semantics there but eh, could potentially be funny.

Interesting side effect is that a megaboss with Rip-tooth Fist should now never take the artefact which reflects mortals on a save roll of a 6 as you would have to choose between the two (they are the same effect). You get CPs for your general being on the field in your OPPONENTS turn. That's pretty fricking huge right there. Puts you up to ~3/4 CP's a round.

In that example your defensive effect triggers before the roll is finished. It's a reroll not an effect that triggers on a 6. Your defensive triggers DURING the roll where as the mortals triggers based on the outcome of the roll. Same way that reroll 1s doesn't interfere with anything which triggers when a 1 is rolled.

They might leave it at 5 and make them battleline at 5, they used to be 10 before the warclans book dropped. @Fred1245 @Zappgrot What will probably happen is people will get a vague idea of what the correct formation looks like then do then "This is what I'm trying to do" like we do with teleport etc. Atm.

It will be interesting to see what they do with ardboys being in boxes of 15. I imagine they will up the min size to 10 and increase the unit cost to ~220

I've not had a problem with finishing games at tournaments for ages, if anything the points cost increase would be to counteract how much longer the new rules are going to add to the time required. The coherency rules especially are going to be a real time consumer until we get some specialised movement trays for them...

Tournament games are 2:30? It depends on how severe the points increase is and the actual impact it has on list building. It's would be equivalent to building a 1750 list at the moment which is highly restrictive for some armies and essentially forces standardisation of lists on those armies.

If stuff really is going up ~15% we might see some tournaments transition to 2.5k as the base size. It would even bring the board size up to ~ the current standard.

Oh dear God. Welp my army now has 2 vanguard for every list...

Aye it's more to do with how ranges armies suffer less from split units due to no combat phase priority and how smaller units let you waste less shots into targets which are dead.