EMMachine
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9 hours ago, Beer & Pretzels Gamer said:
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That said I guess I am confused about what negatives Tzeentch players are being accused of ignoring in taking only the “good side” of this? (Maybe it is referencing something outside of Battleshock?). When I play Khorne whether the unit is destroyed by wounds inflicted or Battleshock I still get to claim the blood tithe. When I play against Warclans if they take the battalion whether the Ardboyz died on the field or fled from it they get a chance to bring them back. Same for Gitz and the Loonshrine. (thank you WD for finally extending that to the Trogs!) Somebody already mentioned it for Death. Pretty sure it counts the same for auxiliary objectives (cant think of an exception but haven’t played them much so maybe). I’ve had players hoping to fail Battleshock in order to be able to bring back and reposition.
Again, Battleshock feels like it was tacked on to the rest of the rules compared to the other systems I’m familiar with but I’m struggling to see many cases where factions who have the option don’t follow the advise of Monty Python and always look on the bright side of death (by Battleshock)... why would Tzeentch be any different?
The case of being destroyed is a little different (sadly only with FAQ not with ruletext), but it is handled like this.
QuoteQ: Some abilities refer to units that have been ‘destroyed’. What does this mean exactly?
A: A unit is considered to be destroyed when the last model from the unit is slain or flees. When measuring the range to a destroyed unit, measure to the position occupied by the last model in the unit to be slain or flee.
Here we have the definition, when the last model is slain or flees, and in case of the battleplans the ruling is for "destroyed" units.
So their they make a difference between slain and flee. Sadly the First blood Battleplan from the corebook only mentions slain (so I'm not sure if GW had the slain or flee definition at the beginning of the edition yet. (so the question is, how many times the "count as slain" is even used anymore except for the
9 hours ago, Beer & Pretzels Gamer said:Again, Battleshock feels like it was tacked on to the rest of the rules compared to the other systems I’m familiar with but I’m struggling to see many cases where factions who have the option don’t follow the advise of Monty Python and always look on the bright side of death (by Battleshock)... why would Tzeentch be any different?
I also quite like the ruling that fleeing models are removed as well because in case of lore, it can mean as well that a hero that is slain, can also be a "Enough, I'm out of here" instead of being dead (something that isn't really posible when a fleeing unit is moving instead of removing models).
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So, Sigmarpedia hat soeben mit 2200 Artikeln einen neuen Meilenstein erreicht.
--So, Sigmarpedia has just reached a new milestone with 2200 articles.
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On 3/16/2021 at 1:43 PM, Neil Arthur Hotep said:
We should probably be considering both tournament an casual play as different ways to play AoS with their own standards of what good balance would look like.
For tournament games, I don' think it is realistic to expect every army to be viable. I believe this because in my experience with competitive games, I have never seen one succeed in making every option a player can choose equally viable in a competitive environment. I don't know of any TCGs where all deck archetypes are equally good, or any fighting games where all characters are. So I don't think we should expect all armies to be equally good in AoS competition.
So what should we expect from a balanced game? I think it's reasonable to expect that there should not be absolute outliers in mechanical strength. We don't want a situation where a handful of armies are in their own tier and make up a majority of podiums. I think we are in or trending toward such a situation at the moment. So that's definitely not ideal.
For casual games, we should want every army to be able to have a chance against every other army. And we should want many different lists to be reasonably playable. "Reasonably playable" does not mean "able to win in a tournament", though. Likewise, it also does not mean that we should expect be able to throw any random units into a list and have it be good.
Due to the amorphous nature of casual play, what makes good casual balance is also a bit vague. I think we should think of it as balance at a "tuned" level, where players try to optimize to a degree and do powerful stuff, but the lists are not necessarily built for maximum consistency and are often restricted to a non-optimal theme. In that regard, I think AoS is still doing fairly well. There are a lot of different playable options in most books at a 7-8 out of 10 power level, often enabling a variety of play styles.
looking at Tournament Meta, I think the problem is at some point that some builds are quite conflicting with the actual lore of the faction.
I mean we had stuff like multiple Abhorrant Archregent or Frostlords on Stonehorn. The first one is basicly a Emperor of multiple courts and the second is the leader of an Alfrostun. In both cases it is quite unlikely that their would be more than 1 of them in the same army (in case of Stonehorns that problem could even be bypassed because 1 Frostlord and 2 Huskards on Stonehorn are actually plausible to play).
It should be more importent that stuff that is reasonable from a lore perspectice should be balanced but stuff that could actually conflict with the lore should not be a result to debuff lorefriendly builds.
On 3/16/2021 at 1:56 PM, Beastmaster said:But the tournament experiences do trickle down even to the most casual player I think. Even when I started out with a bit of list building and fantasizing about an army, my choices were formed in part by what I read on the internet about those units. And a big part of discussions about units is how they perform in a tournament environment.
I think here the problem is that for years if not decades the tournament community is the most vocal and that way new players are lead to a quite unhealthy way to play.
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On 3/13/2021 at 6:08 PM, jamie.white said:
I can’t lay my hands on my book atm but I am pretty sure Vyperic Guard isn’t in the new battletome .
The Vyperic Guard is part of the Daughers of Khaine Battletome. (Page 83)
At least the Daughters of Khaine are fully included into the Battletome (and the Allegiance for Zainthar Kai was updated becaue it didn't have a Artefact in Broken Realms Morathi).
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On 3/13/2021 at 6:42 PM, Gurgamel said:
Hello,
Me and my brothers bought some old units a couple years back and finaly about to bring them to battle. But, as brothers winning and loosing is everything so we need balance acording to rules.
I cant find anywhere the points/per modell for the dwarf warriors and quarellers also the Empire master enginer/gunmaster?Sry for being newb, thanks on beforehand.
Do you have the Generals Handbook 2020? In the legends section of the Point Booklet are points for the units that don't have uptodate Warscrolls anymore.
For the warscrolls you either need the AoS App or the old Grand Alliance Books.
On 3/13/2021 at 11:50 PM, Gurgamel said:Thanks, good option. The guard and warriors seems like a good match when i watch their scroll but feels like quarrelers are a bit stronger then crossbowmen. But I could be completle wrong about that.
Also could not find the warscroll for Empire master enginer/gunmaster, only one on mechanical steed, same but witouth mount?
The Legends lists include either the modelranges of the old world in some cases and in other cases they include the models that weren't printed in the Grand Alliance Books.
Thats the reason why you don't find the gunmaster in the compendium after it was printed as part of the Ironweld Arsenal in the Grand Alliance Order Book.
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7 hours ago, Maddpainting said:
I swore it was in a faq but couldn't find.
If you have a rule to have a rule take effect on a hit that stops the attack (Example, Scourgerunner Lay the Beast Low; hitting on a 6 stops the attack and instead deals X MW's) but your opponent has a rule that yes re-roll successful hits (like Archaon's The Eye of Sheerian; hits of a 6 needs to be re-rolled).
Does the attack still need to be re-rolled?
EDIT: Adding warscrolls to easily visualize the rules
https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/aos_Archaon_eng.pdf
https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/aos_scourgerunnerchariots_eng.pdfThe answer is actually on page one of the Core-Rules. Re-Rolls, last sentence:
QuoteRules that refer to the result of an 'unmodified' dice roll are referring to the result after any re-rolls but before any modifiers are applied.
So re-rolls have priority over other abilites.
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14 minutes ago, Barbarian Borelord said:
Another question from the rookie: I was going over the warscrolls and I saw that Handgunners and Sisters of Avelorn can shoot in the enemy's charge phase when an enemy unit ends their charge within 3 inch of them. I figured that was for their personal defense, but then I thought what if a friendly infantry unit can fit in those 3 inch? Can the ranged units sit so close to the infantry units that they can act in their defense when being charged by the enemy?
It seems like such an advantage that I want to check if GW hasn't made some kind of rule against it, but so far I have only found rules about the maximum distance between models.
Let's see it this way. If they wanted that the unit can only shoot if they are the target, the rule would have been within 1" instead of 3" because you have to be in 1/2" that a charge is successful.
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13 hours ago, MarkK said:
Like my father would have a fair idea what a dwarf or troll is, a duardin or troggoth takes some explaining.
9 hours ago, Jefferson Skarsnik said:" They're the same thing as dwarfs and trolls"
8 hours ago, MarkK said:My point being that most of the general population knows what they are, only someone that knows what Warhammer is, and further knows what Age of Sigmar is, and reads into the lore knows what a duardin is.
It's not as easily accessible as what fantasy was; dwarfs are stout, greedy people that live in mountains, elves are haughty and look down on everyone, trolls live in swamps, etc.
I have the strange feeling AoS is the rare case where people refuse to use the names given to the races.
I mean, if you are in the Lord of the Ring lore, you would use "Hobbit" instead of "halfling", "Uruk-hai" instead of "halforc"? in germany the elves are called "Elben" instead of the normally used "Elfen".
Or when you look at 40k their were Squats instead of Dwarfs. (but also Eldar and Dark Eldar is used more often than Craftworld Eldari and Drukhari).
Duardin, Aelf, Orruks or Troggoth have the same right to be used in AoS as Hobbit and Uruk-hai in Lord of the Rings + we don't know if their could be another Orc or Troll based race in the future, that maybe isn't called an Orruk or a Troggoth.
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23 minutes ago, Enoby said:
I used to play competitive YuGiOh, and if you don't know, the point of competitive YuGiOh is to stop your opponent playing through negates, interrupts, immunity, and destroying key cards. The aim of the game was to try waste as many of your opponent's resources for them ultimately to do nothing. It was a high skill game, and initially there was interactivity in the non-interactivity; it became about negating negates, or feigning a move and baiting your opponent, or letting your opponent go off and overextend until you found the exact time in their chain to destroy a weak link.
It was a lot of fun, but I eventually fell out of love with it as my deck fell out of the meta and the new decks were even better at negating and ignoring negates and recoveries. When I played, it felt as if the choice was either to catch up and buy a new deck or to watch your opponent chain for 10 minutes. This is obviously a powercreep issue, which isn't a dirw AoS issue, but the main problem was the feeling of NPE.
It was boring and frustrating. If you showed up to a competitive match with an out of meta deck, you were basically watching your opponent play solitaire. The thought that made me quite the competitive side was "I don't even want to be here, I'm not playing anymore and I'm wasting my time".
I don't really know what is going on with Yu-Gi-Oh! at the moment (never really played it actively besides some of the console games), but I guess you mean such cases were someone starts the game and is basicly drawing his entire deck in turn one to get Exodia (at least I have seen a video with something like this.)
37 minutes ago, Enoby said:Others would argue that certain units don't have enough accessible counterplay. Sentinals are often accused of this as they ignore many important rules to help defend models. Even if a unit can be played around, if it's very awkward to do and can cost objectives, it often will be unsatisfying.
I think this is the main problem with Sentinels. Their is no reason to kill the Shooting phase for 75% of Shooting units when a simple Warscroll change (no mortal wounds on the shooting profile that is used for indirect shooting / long range) would most likely solve that problem.
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Okay, when looking with my Smartphone, I get some as well.
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12 hours ago, rosa said:
I would prefer if we get 2 Warscrolls...
One as the old version, which is totally fine rulewise. Especially for a 240?! points model. One could use the older Finecast model to play him.
And then the new pumped up version Warscroll for the new model which will be like 400-500 points and does the new model and size justice.
Play narrative play. Their you can use any warscroll you want from all years of aos.
11 hours ago, JackStreicher said:Smaug-Sized on Dracothion 😍
Srsly though: both would need to be separate. Also if Sigmar ever joined the fray, his rules would almost certainly be underwhelming. I‘d rather him empower the Celestant prime.
I think it's more likely that Dracothion would be the battlefield instead of a model on the battlefield. Behemat had the size of an entire region. And Argentine was as large as the entire hanging valleys (which should have a similar size to Dracothion).
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Yes, he can. With the Khorne Keyword he is a valide member of the Khorne faction and can get an Artefact from the Blades of Khorne Battletome when played in a Khorne Allegiance.
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46 minutes ago, Beliman said:
Maybe I'm going crazy, but after talking with a friend and reading/writting with our Hedonites, is there any possibility that we would see the same "attacking" process of 40k? Let me explain:
Age of Sigmar uses three diferent timings for the whole process:
- Making an attack (hitting, wounding, saving and determining the damage).
- Allocate wounds (after all attacks are resolved) to enemy models.
- Remove enemy models.
40k uses a one per one attack, and every attack must finish the whole process (that means: hit, wound, save and doing damage until it is destroyed too).
What it's making me crazy is Gluttos Orscollion and his Command Ability, Gorge on Excess:
Until your next hero phase, if an enemy unit is destroyed by an attack made by that HEDONITE unit and there are wounds that remain to be allocated to that enemy unit from that attack, healup to the same number of wounds allocated to that HEDONITE unit.
The point is that in AoS, attacks don't kill the enemy, it's the pool of wounds after all attacks are being made.
Wait, I need to find my tinfoil hat, that's the point of this post when I'm looking for aliens, illuminati and Half Life 3.
Unless... we are going to see something like 40k attacks in AoS. That could end the spilled dmg over other models (1 attack kill 1 model).What do you think? Is that even possible? Hordes are going to be wild with how many attacks they have with jsut 1 dmg but it couls shake
The entire phase it called attacking sequence.
The attacksequence of 40k would slow down AoS extremly.
For example 20 Attacks with fast rolling.
AoS:
- roll to-hit together,
- roll to-wound together,
- roll saves together,
- roll damage,
- allocate every wound 1 by 1.
40k (if they didn't kill of fast rolling entirely):
- roll to-hit together,
- roll to-wound together,
- allocate 1 attack,
- roll save for that attack,
- roll damage
- go back to 3.
And yeah, the attacking system of 40k would cripple Elite units and monsters completely.
In case of the ability:
Maybe the an Attack doesn't means "a single dice roll" and instead means that it has to be during a shooting or melee attack of that unit. So a Shardspeaker can't heal because of an Arcane Bolt or a Lord of Pain because of the "Share the Pain" rule
1 hour ago, JonnyTheKing said:For AOS 3 honestly just a bit of a pull back on the power creep, it’s becoming a serious issue right now with the games enjoyment sadly. We have seen just how abusive shooting is right now, at least a tidy up to the shooting phase would be nice (More disadvantages for shooting units, for example a unit CANNOT shoot if they are in engagement range in combat) even then some of the warscrolls the way they are is still going to be an issue but that is the big one for me really
battleshock is also a phase I’d like to be tweaked right now, the way 40K handles battleshock right now is pretty solid so I’d be totally fine if they just implemented that way of doing it into Age of Sigmar
Can you maybe make long range shooting weaker without killing short range shooting?
Throwing Axes, Javelins and all sorts of Pistols (maybe even Flamethrowers) are meant to shoot while the unit is in combat. Takting this away would criple such units completly because they basicly would shoot zero to one time in the entire game.
If you want to give shooting units with long range shooting a disadventage give them a minimum range of 4" or maybe 6" and those can't shoot in close combat anymore
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Hi @Zeblasky
Mortal wounds are allocated after all attacks of the attacking unit have been resolved (the same way normal wounds are allocaed). It is basicly a separate wound pool (after those woulds can only be negated by abilites that ignore mortal wounds).
The point is, that the game works this way.
If an enemy unit for example has 3 weapontypes and attacks one unit you make the following.
- Rolling to hit, to wound, save and damage for weapon 1 (putting the damage into a pool)
- Rolling to hit, to wound, save and damage for weapon 2 (putting the damage into a pool)
- Rolling to hit, to wound, save and damage for weapon 3 (putting the damage into a pool)
Only after you handeled the last weapon, the combined pool of weapons 1-3 will be allocated to the models, and this is also the time when Mortal Wounds are allocated.
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Strange, I have never seen such popup apps for mobile games here on that page. (or they get blocked in my case)
I thought the only adds are stuff like this:
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14 minutes ago, King Under the Mountain said:
Completely forgot Gitslayer was coming out soon!
First it was mentioned with March 2021, but they changed the entry to April.
And the same with The End of Enlightenment, that first should have been released in February and was changed to March.
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22 minutes ago, Random said:
Some people said that The Cursed City is right around the corner, but I have no clue how GW wants to do a major release with these Brexit and Covid related issues still lingering.
If Cursed city was "right around the corner", I think we would definitly know the release month. We have a cursed city novel that should most likely be released the same time as the box.
Now their is the problem. Warhammer Community has a black Library coming soon article where they basicly show the releases of the next two months:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/blacklibrarycomingsoon/
The problem is, the Cursed City novel is not listed their. We have stuff for march and april listed.
It's most likely that the Lumineth Realm-lords Release and maybe Broken Realms Teclis is in march because we still wait on that book:
The other books that should be released and april are those
It cursed city should be released in march or april, the book Cursed City novel would be shown in this list as well, so we are either in the last week of April (and the Cursed City novel isn't added yet, or the release is in May.
To give a comparrison, Direchasm and Warcry Catacombs were in the months as well as their bookreleases:
+ We had the Bonesplitterz Warband in the Preview as well, that is a May Release.
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Looking at the rules, it's up to 5 plus the general (so basicly every hero that isn't a daemonprince).
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The thing is, the book should be mentioned here:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/blacklibrarycomingsoon/
At least at the moment the only Books mentioned with AoS are the following:
The book should be here if it is released at the same time as the Cursed City Box.
Especially after the Books for Direshasm and Warcry Catacombs were in the list before their release.
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8 hours ago, Wraith said:
In the Ravagers legion, does the general get both a command trait and a Ravagers command trait?
@FlipRecoil The General doesn't get the "Ravagers Command Trait" the entry in the Warscroll Builder only exists because normally only general can get a command trait, but in a Ravagers army 5 different models can have a command trait, so the entry is for the models that aren't your general.
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16 hours ago, Loyal Son of Khemri said:
Looks like vamps are going to be wearing their bloodline animal as clothing this time around.
Well let's see if we get a Snake and a Pig as well after having a Rat and a Wolf 😁
32 minutes ago, Percivael said:I think Kritza is for Soulblight as it mentions a bloodline, but I think he might be usable as an adventurer in Cursed City. His connections to the Ulfenkarn are just too strong. He certainly has a bone to pick with Radukar! He might even be the mysterious hero card in the Cursed City Novel!
After you only will get the rules for the 9th Character in the book it would be quite weird if it is a new model.
In my oppinion it would make more sense if they would say: "Here you have rules for Gotrek, Bugmansson or a Knight Questor". A Model that is already released at least.
Maybe an Expension.
Is it also possible that Warhammer Quest - Cursed City will still wait until May, because the Novel Release is not mentioned yet on Warhammer Community Coming Soon and their is stuff until April on the page at the moment.
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Sigmarpedia hat soeben 2100 Artikel erreicht.
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Sigmarpedia reached 2100 articles.
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Hi, in the rumours engine this Conversion of Sigvald was shown.
21 hours ago, Kaleb Daark said:But back on the Vampire hypetrain...
is this not the mose amazeballs conversion..
Here is the video as well how the model was converted.
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4 minutes ago, Kaleb Daark said:
But back on the Vampire hypetrain...
is this not the mose amazeballs conversion..
I think I have seen a Video on youtube, where this Sigvald conversion was made.
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Is DAEMONETTE = DAEMONETTES
in Rules Questions
Posted · Edited by EMMachine
Yes it's the same (Core Book FAQ)