broche

Yeah big G command as true value at least it's significantly better than the generic one... I'm really thinking if i play the MK i'm gonna play it with fast un and gryph feather charge for the extra move, and kill satellite units early game before going for the main body.

My personnal choice would be Weirnob, 30 arrowboys, 5 boarboys, 5 maniack. But your list is good as well

It's good infantry. It's pretty close between morboys and regular orruck. Both are the cheapest wound/model per point in the army so most army will include some.

@Warbossironteef I like your list, only concern would be speed as it really infantry heavy but maybe you're good with just breath

I don't think the extra rend from Icebone is gonna be really significant on Bonereaper (or any high rerollable save) If Bonereaper become prevalent, i think the best answer is to increase the number of Big stabbas. Stuff with 4+ is not really a problem for no rend, you can still saturate it pretty well. It start to be problematic at 3+/4+ reroll and better.

For me it's pointless to analyze units without crossing with their cost. The units I consider very cost efficient are: - Boingrots bounder - Trolls (both version) And on the other end of the spectrum: - Gargant (should be 100-120). Right now I think he is just plain too bad to be used. - Troggboss (should probably be around 240) - Scragnot (maybe 20-30 pts overcost) Note that overpriced don't mean bad, if it can still bring you something. But if you inlcude let say 2 troggboss and 2 gargant in your list, you start with a serious handicap. I'm not too aware of the spiders as i never played them, but at first glance they light rightly priced. I think taking at least 20-40 stabbas is also mandatory, just for the fact that is the only stuff you can bring back with the Loonshrine, and it's a pretty cheap and efficient unit. What preventing Gloomspite to be on top currently is that their allegience ability is both really average, and random.

Yeah I think 'win more' was not the right term here. You definitly need MD to win game. Pre-battletome, when I was activating MD to fight once or twice per turn, I would usually win those games. However in games I was not able to use it (because my model were dying to fast) I was generally losing. Popping back model is the kind of ability that can make the difference in those contest.

Quick rule question, can Shadespire orc now be include in battalions (i think they can't trigger Ardfist ability cause key word is in bold or something like that)

Brutes do significantly more damage than ardboys. around 35% without hit bonus or 70% with it (15 ardboys vs 10 brutes) Ardboys do get more utility rule (bravery buff/debuff, shield, charge bonus). Brutes might get better if the new tomb king become more prevalent (they have lot of 4+ wound Nasty unit that you need to one shot or they come back)

Honestly i don't think there is much to rant right now about Brutes except the fact that their warscroll is a bit boring (and that they have 6 bravery) What do you guys think of Fast'un? I'm starting to think that if I use the Maw Krusha, I might go for less damage and more mobility. With Fast'un and gryph feather charm for exemple is not a bad mix. The +3'' become +6'' with Migthy destroyer. Treath range like artillery!

I think Ardfist is not the best match with ironsunz honestly. But it's certainly the most potent bataillion we have IMO. Of course it's all theory because i doubt I'll ever play it due to the insane amount of Ardboys needed. Still fact is, summoning mechanic are quite powerfull. It doesnt prevent you from using Mighty destroyer. It just give you the extra ability to convert each CP. A lot of current top army have no mean of sniping him. Mighty destroyer is a powerful ability, but kind of has 'win more tag'. Meaning if you are able to activate it 2-3 time, that mean you still have model on the table and probably in pretty good shape overall. On the other hand, let say your sitting with 3 CP (and obviously the brooch) and get double turned against Slanesh loosing a big chunk of your army, I'll clearly spend 3-4 command point to try to bring 10-20 more ardboys. CP will resplendish quickly enough on your turn anyway. If you drop the Maw Krusha (which I think is the best option for the most competitive army), It's not that hard to fit both an Ironfist and a Ardfist (until Ardfist get FAQ'ed). You can then have the best of both world. Use small squad of ardboys to screen and die, support them with nearby squad of Brutes to counterattack, and some gruntas for hammer. You can start with something like this: use dead kunning, great green vision and aetherquartz brooch. Fill the remaining 400 pts with what suit you and I'm pretty sure you'll have good result.

At 750 pts, definitly go bonesplitters. You get a lot of cost-efficient units, and great mobility. at 750 you'll struggle having enough model with Ironjawz to have a good army

i would use something like this. Stupid but still not that stupid use 1 ardboys, puke twice on him, then summon 40-50 and put them. Add another weirnob and/or use shamanic skull cape for more consistency. You start with 120 life, if you succed you have 200+ and deep strike potentiel. And you still have a relativly "normal' army

What I like with Ardfist, is it give you an extra option to spend command point. I don't think you need to activate it more than once or 2 to win a game. What I dislike, is that you need a shitload of Ardboys

-1 Megaboss, -1 warchanter, 10 ardboys and find another 20 pts. it's -18 wound, -2 units. Might not seem a lot, but having a big chunk of point in a single model can always be a problem. Let look at the current state vs old book: 1. Maw krusha is more potent, but cost 40 pts more. 2. 10 ardboys (our cheapest individual model) are now 18 vs 14 pts per model. 3. Before book, MK was our best damage buff (with waaagh) making him almos mandatory. Now our best buff is Warchanter. A Maw Krusha does roughly the amount of damage of 15 ardboys. But with those 15 ardboys, i've another 10 ardboys sitting somewhere. 10 ardboys buffed warchanter can actually bring you pretty far now i a tight game. Obviously, it does bring something to the army like mobility and rend 2. But now with hand of gork, and double moving pig i think we have other option to cover mobility. And if you want to strike early (to kill screen or wing unit), you're better send up anything than a MK as you'll sacrifice much less points. Right now I seem to have easier time fitting him in Big Waaagh, cause in big waaagh you have access to much cheaper model/wound. Maybe in a Ardfist too, as the bataillion is not very expensive, and you can bring back dead model (and opponent might want to kill warchanter first ignoring the Cabbage for a turn or 2). Another option is to use it as an Elite Anvil (taking Ironclad + ignax scale is the best set up I think for that). Problem is that is really risky against some army (skaven, FEC, Slaneesh, Fyreslayer) but could be really efficient against other. Army with no rend will just bounce on him, so if you engage him turn 1 and he survive and fight in your hero phase, you might win the game right there. And finally, if you plan to play super aggressive (at least a 3 units alpha strike) then you're kind of hoping you'll kill enough important stuff that it doesn't matter anyway.

When you look at his matchup, he didn't play anything shooty. I doubt Ironjawz can really loose any attrition war at the moment if you keep the warchanter all game. A single hand of gork can win the game, so it's tricky for opponent to adjust to that. Combine that with a -1 to hit in round 1, all you have to do is kill all you can in round 1 then you just put your weight on the opposing army for the rest of the game. I admit I'm curious how he would have fare against the Fyreslayer.

Hey thanks for sharing that @PlasticCraic, this confirm my guts was good Fungoid and scuttletide is really an interesting choice!

that's a really good point thanks for reminding! Pretty nasty on Gruntas actually as you can garantee a charge after a teleport, not a lot of army can do that. On the opposite, i'm more and more tempted to go Krusha - less. With i'ts cost increase, and those of gruntas and ardboys i'm finding i've hard time putting enough body/ wound on the board. Also, it's command ability is now much less impactfull than before when you had to do triple waaagh to do something. Now you can just hand of gork 10 ardboys and they will do same amount of damage than a MK, for only 180 pts... For exemple, i find a list like this really appealing (second artefact would probably be the CP on 4+ or aetherquartz brooch)

Yeah it seem access to high save/reroll is bonesplitterz bane. I'm not sure they have such damage spike tough, and will suffer from low model count, so you can always sit on objective first with 30 spearman with 3+ save. Had a chance to try some Boarboys (took them as ally in my Gloomspite), and they were amazing. 12'' move combined with +2 to charge, and now the hit hard enough to kill some serious stuff.

Oh i see. I was not aware of this rule, i need to reread the section. With that it make total sense to forgo teleport then as it's too easy to deny. edit: @Scurvydog deadly territory just mention reserve unit. You think it apply to hand of gork? I'm not so sure

@Scurvydog I think this could work? The teleport combined with the +2 charge can swap game quickly. The weirnob can puke on brutes and megaboss to make them move faster too. I just realized you can only play squad of 10 ardboys, wich is pretty weak... ( i wanted to use 15 ardobys instead of 10 brutes first)

it's pretty close now. charge bonus from Hacka compensate for extra attack on choppas. Hacka can help reach hiding backline model, but as you say hte 2'' don't really help second row to attack as their base is so big. At the end of the day i don't think it's really relevent

@Scurvydog this is quite interesting. I did not had the chance to experiment ME yet, but the way i saw it i expect it to be very random (wich doesn't necesseraly mean not fun ) So reading from your experience, do you think using bloodtooth for mid-late quickduff teleport and/or weirnob with hand of gork might be a good strategy? Also are MK/Gordrack intesting investment?

How do you like meeting engagement game overall?

Ya either that, or waaagh monger. Dead kunning, master of the weird and fueled by the spirit all seem apealing to me as well! I think I like the +1 to cast for first of gork.