PlasticCraic

Think our messages overlapped there! I was talking about the Batallion with the 6" pile in rather than the run + charge, like I said above I've made extensive use of that ability with other units and it's incredibly powerful. And again, you're not actually paying much of a premium for that Moon manipulation over double Fungoids...especially when you're also getting the +1 to magic too. Well worth 40 points I think. The larger tax is missing out on a Command Trait in my opinion, which is a real concern. If people are convinced by your arguments however, one of my Fungoids is new on sprue and I'll be more than happy to part with it! The other is painted to a high standard, and I'll be keeping him for the memories...I don't think he'll be seeing much time on the Battlefield in future unfortunately. @novakai oops, my mistake!

I'm not trying to take a dump on your answer by the way @Ekrund Oath Splitters, what you have said would be helpful to someone who really didn't want to take the new guy. I think the main reason I might not take him would be the Named Character as General thing - i.e. you miss out on a Commant Trait which would be helpful for a Summoning build (rolling twice in Hero phase to recycle models) or an Aggro Mangler with the phase out of combat. But I do think the Warscroll for the Fungoid is significantly worse overall than his old one for the reasons above (also his rerollable Unbind is gone which was an underrated ability). And in most circumstances I would find myself taking Skragrott over him.

Yeah it's still really powerful because everything gets to swing first. But more than that, it means you can run and / or retreat and still pile in, because you don't need to complete a charge to get into combat. So you can't be pinned down, get an extra D6" of "free" movement, and get to swing first in every engagement. It's amazing.

I should mention that the Fungoid also lost a wound (went from 5 wounds down to 4). Between that and losing the native -1 to hit I believe he is less survivable even with the better shrug. Personally I would take Skragrott in a Squig build too - he benefits them massively. Run and charge is excellent with their dicey movement, but even moreso I like him in the Batallion with its 6" pile in. That is Bad Moon dependent (hence his CA is clutch for that build), and having used it a lot with Yhetees and Bonegrinders I can tell you it's dynamite. Also FWIW the Fungoid's old CA was superb if you harnessed it correctly, after using it on an unbogdownable Maw Krusha to multicharge per turn it is hard to go back https://thehonestwargamer.com/aos-list-rundowns/triple-bang-the-monster-mash-they-never-saw-coming/

I think they're almost completely obsolete unfortunately. 2x Fungoids at 180 points is the comparison to 1x Skragrott at 220 Skragrott has 2x casts and 2x unbinds: BUT they are all at +1 native, whereas the Fungoid has lost his rerolls. Skragrott has the amazing once per game CA. Skragrott will do some chip damage output too (remember the Mortal wounds keep leaking out). They both generate equal numbers of CPs on average. They both have a 4+ shrug. Double Fungoid has a couple more wounds but has lost his native -1 to hit. The 40 points buys you so much more, I really don't see how the Fungoid has a role. Skragrott is just a better CP generator with much more besides. Honestly, the warscroll for the Fungoid has been completely eviscerated. I own a couple and it's hard not to feel like I've had my pocket picked.

Haha fair. I do want to do a Gobbapalooza list, but more for novelty value really. I think there is a build there, but you'd really have to build the list around them.

@Malakree you are right though, I'll just have to get used to thinking of them as two separate factions (Squigs and Grots) with some overlap. There are plenty of tools in the book, regardless of my thoughts on the keywords! It's no more than a minor footnote in knee-stabbing history.

Then you are a Legend, and deserve to have some fun pulping things with your 2 units of 15!

It makes sense, but I don't like that we are the guinea pigs for it. Giving buffs to a Mangler Squig doesn't seem to me any worse than a Bloodsecrator Banner giving extra incredibly high quality attacks to big things instead of Bloodreavers. Most books are packed to the brim with unintended interactions that over time just become completely absorbed into the standard tech for that army. This book has been a long time coming, and frankly I enjoy exploring bent interactions!

Yep, it feels a little stingy to me personally. Is this the first time a model + mount haven't had the keywords for both? It would be like Enlightened on Disc not having Daemon, or Archaon not being Mortal.

Seems to be...the unit size is 5, so I'm thinking it's just a bit of fun or an Objective marker. The other use that I can see for it is to take GW at their word, and use it as a Citadel Miniature. Anyone who had 3 Fanatics before can buy 2 x boxes of 6 = 12 Plus their existing 3 = 15 So if you already had 3 old ones, and buy 2 boxes, you're bumping it up to a whole extra unit of 5

Isn't the max unit size 20 for Loonsmashas? Go on, do it, I dare you! I'd been thinking along similar lines but with an Alpha Bunker element. i.e. do it with 60 Stabbas. You will melt their front lines Turn 1, and their Turn 1 they have to spend killing the Fanatics (not hard!). Then it's their Turn 2 before they even get to engage with your 60 Stabbas. Lots of ways for them to be Battleshock Immune. Should have a really good chance of pinning them until Turn 3, at which point you are miles ahead on Objectives...and then you recycle 30 Stabbas to nick the Objectives back from their depleted army 20 might be a stretch, but there is definitely a build with Deep Striking Smashas.

Can you still do Grotception? Fanatics hiding inside Fanatics? You could release them from each other, getting progressively closer. Maybe with the first one being Spores, and the second one being Loonsmashas. So the Spores buff the Smashas, and give them an even easier charge. Then sit there as a screen in front of your Grots - you might even be able to create a choke point

Ah hang on - does Ethereal just ignore Rend, and not all Modifiers? I don't have the wording here. If it's only Rend, we're golden!

My take on it is that the Mommet would not affect Ethereal, because it is still a modifier and Ethereal ignores modifiers. But the Spider spell would still work, because it is not a modifier (FYI it makes saves of 1 or 2 auto fails rather than just 1s). So it is not actually modifying or changing the dice roll at all. If you've rolled a 2 it's still a 2. It just means that 2 fails instead of succeeds (if you'd got down to a 2+ save).

Yeah I've seen the points and he is a direct competitor to the Mangler. He is the same as the one with a Boss on top, more than the basic Mangler (although as you said he also comes with free Squigs). He can't be in the Batallions, but does benefit from Squig keyword buffs. It might even come down to whether you are taking Skragrott as General (to manipulate the Moon), or the Mangler as General (with the phase out of combat). Personally I love the Colossal and still intend to use it

Agreed. I do love the Batallion for the 6" pile in move (which does rely on the Bad Moon) - so in my Squig build I have taken Skragrott. But they definitely look strong even without that Batallion. One thing I love about Skragrott is his 4+ shrug. An expensive low-wound character like him would otherwise be too vulnerable to things like the Everblaze Comet and Celestant Prime - hopefully you should at least get a turn of him being alive, which is all you need to get some juice out of his CA. Do you think there's still a place for the Colossal Squig?

And one last thing on this topic (so as not to attempt to drag down the mood of the thread), I should just clarify that I do like the book, and I will be buying in! It might not be pitched at the level I was hoping for competitively, but it looks like an excellent book on its own terms. And who knows, with this many Warscrolls to work with, maybe we will be able to crack the code and make a very strong army even without relying on Battle Traits and the like - there are certainly a lot of tools to work with.

That being said I hope you and others who got exactly what they were hoping for enjoy the book, and I'm sure you will. Hopefully we Destro fanboys don't have to wait as long for the next book, and hopefully at that point we'll all have something pitched at the right level for us.

@Skabnoze thanks for an interesting post and perspective. I agree with your handle on where they will sit competitively. Obviously none of us have the book yet, but we’ve all read the majority of it now and an experienced player can usually get a pretty good handle on these things. FWIW (and just to voice a counterpoint) I was hoping they would catapult straight into the top tier of competitive armies. You are right to say there are other armies for that…but not in Destruction. As a devoted Orcs and Goblins fan who has waited literally years and years for any real kind of update, while power creep has rampaged ahead unchecked, I think it was reasonable to hope that when a book came it would be right in the mix. I totally get that not every player wants or needs that, and you have very eloquently expressed the perspective of those who don’t. I think it was quite a deliberate choice to pitch it at that angle, and in that sense they have absolutely nailed their objective. But after seeing successive Destruction releases proactively and heavily nerfed shortly after release, and left there; and after being left out of the GH Allegiances in successive editions; I think it was reasonable to hope for a highly competitive release. Frankly I've had enough of straining every sinew to go 3-2. My own 2 cents is that it’s fine and thematic for the Bad Moon to be erratic and therefore unreliable from a competitive viewpoint. But if they are going down that path, it would have been good to get Skyports / Temple rules and a Prayer lore. We really should have had more free rules as a quality of life issue – Prayers in particular are long overdue and would have been very thematic.

Will you be taking any Stabbas or Shootas?

This is technically correct, however they are also not Leaders. Their Battlefield Roll is blank.

From my understanding: - They are not Heroes, presumably so they don't cripple your Hero allocation - They do have their own version of "Lookout Sir" on the Warscroll to make up for that - They do not have access to the Spell Lore - However a couple of them have excellent Warscroll spells - They are quite expensive at 240 points - They count as 1 drop each (they are 5 separate units but you have to take all of them) - They have their own 110 point Batallion which would get the drops back down I like the look of them, they have some good utility. 240 points is not to be sniffed at though. I think you'd almost have to build a specific list around them, which would be a good fun exercise when you are looking for some variety.

I think there is definitely an argument for the second part. You really need Grots to get something out of the Battle Traits, specifically the recycling chaff through the Shrine. Other than novelty purposes, you really don't get much out of doing an all-Troggoth army.

For sure, I'm not saying he won't be strong - I'm really excited about using him I just wouldn't be in a rush to see him nerfed / get a points hike. He probably needed a lift, and now he's got one...itwould be great to see him being a really competitive choice, the model deserves it imo.