Gokken

Yea it gives a damage bonus of 1 on one weapen when a model attacks, so the biggest amount of attacks would make sense right? not sure if it counts as a mount. would the statue also count as a mount then? is a giant cauldren really a mount :D?

I think this will be the modified version of my old list Hagnar list before the book. I ran 60 witches in a cauldren guard with 15 sisters and a ironscale. Hagnar list 2000 Lifetakers one group of 10 one of 5 240 1760 Cauldren gaurd 120 1640 Witches x 50 500 1140 Medusa foot 100 1040 Ironscale 110 930 shrine 160 770 Bloodsisters x15 390 380 Cauldren 220 160 Heart of fury 80 80 Mogwaeth 80 0 sorry for the weird format it was made in excel with new points. I like how many thing we can get for 2000 points One medusa has mirrior dance other one has Mindrazor Priests will have catachism of murder and shield of khaine I must say I am very much in doubt about artefacts, bloodsigil with battleshock immunity og increase blood rites are very good. shadowstone is nerfed I know but still Its nice to get the spells off easier. Artefacts are the most complicated I think Depending on shadowstone or Sigil the cauldren accolytes og shrines goadstaves gets ulfuri so the 8 attacks have damage 2.

Very nice write up Moose, I noticed you wrote it seems like you did two rolls one for immunity and one for rerolls on witchbrew I am pretty sure its a 5+ for both effects. Also how helpfull was the heart? I think Deepkin is one of the better armies out there really tough to kill.

Does anyone know if the mirrordance can affect the hero casting it? I would like to play Hagnar with medusa shrine as general, would be nice to use bloodsisters and be able to teleport to a location so my guys are wholly within 12? or do I need a separate medusa to cast it? I mean I would be visible and within myself right? does my shrine question its own existence? do I feel? do I breath? am I a real boy? was my shrine just gaslighted into thinking it is within itself? does my shrine even exist?

I agree they should have been snake traits, so medusas coul reroll or ironscale get +1 save. Like mount traits for other books, why get +1 to save on a hero when I can give my entire army 5+ ward?! why?!

I like this aswell, It will also mean we actually get to use round 5 abilties when I get there my army is dead or I have won, so the turn 4 and 5 are less used for me. This way they advance faster in a smaller way, also if we still get sacrament prayer you could have turn 4-5 buff really fast for one unit. If the 5fnp is gone then some serious changes has to be made, I painted 60 witches with daggers, they will be useless because they will die instantly and with bloodsisters only costing 20 more those will be much better. Also stalkers list with bloodsisters will be the only options because other units will be to squishy, maybe sisters of battle because they can use some movement stuff to avoid danger. I made emotional invested in my army and I fear the nerfing of the 5 fnp will do some serious damage to the army.

If you look at ardboys, wardens from LRL and some other battlelines, I would not say witches need a nerf they are good but since they came out their points have increased and other armies have gotten just as good units.

I have now playtested this with 10 matches and I won 9 random map from gw was rolled each time and lost one 15-16. Thanks for chumphammer for some thoughts. I must say it works well, 3 big units forces shooting armies to focus atleast some of them over my heroes, or face alot of bodies. Melusai with thousand and one dark gift, within a cauldren and a none hero units gives her a save of 3/5 -1 to hit on ranged she is actually quite tough. the tactic is to send it sisters and one unit of witch aelves again most armies, when they are done fighting it will have caused loads of damage, then you still have a big unit of witches to deal with and going into mid gear, you start to unlock reroll hits for these, second priest is a abit of tie between sacrament or catachism of murder. Cauldren is given iron circlet and shield of khaine. Save your command for battleshock immunity on one unit, and snake run and charge. Something thats 24 far away is on aveerage 9 away, considering you roll average on your dobbelt run dices with snakes, not factoring in rerolls of 1 and possibility of rerolling a charge for your command point. its actually a decent chance of straight up murdering something in turn 1. nice I end up making a army list that really works for me, and new book comes out for the new book I hope the make our damage better, we have almost no rend of mortal wounds and are very dependant on mindrazor, which is not that reliable. I like the 5 fnp from Hag'narr It fits with my theme, I painted my elves very shadowy and blood covered, for me it makes sense that the chosen of the god of war, would be fearsome and durable fighters even with limited gear. hope that this stays, so you can play a more straight up version of DOK. I dont like the new "Daughters of Overlord" where you teleport down and shoot everything, if we get a mass slow I am out

Anyone still uses battalions? I often find bodies to be more useful trying to modify my old cauldren guard with this. I geuss Morathi would be the best add to this, but its the only model I don't have for DOK. Allegiance: Daughters of KhaineLeadersBloodwrack Medusa (140)- GeneralHag Queen on Cauldron of Blood (290)Hag Queen (100)Melusai Ironscale (140)Battleline30 x Witch Aelves (300)- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives30 x Witch Aelves (300)- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives15 x Blood Sisters (420)Units5 x Khinerai Lifetakers (80)5 x Khinerai Lifetakers (80)BattalionsCauldron Guard (120)Total: 1970 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 130 Pros I can get a fast and big unit of melusai, with medusa as general Both my general and the bloodsisters will be fast with ironscale. Cons: a slaughter queen on cauldren can more easily survive shooting armies, with a thousand and one dark gift, rather than an 8 wounds medusa.

ah thank you very much, then I am afraid she will be benched, she is simply not worth 140 points, 90 sure but 140 for a command ability that on average gives 1 more move than at the double is just bad, also he blood offering is garbage.

Hey guys quick question about the Ironscale, I got her for christmas and I like the model a lot. Her command ability seems really great but does it work with at the double give you use 2 command points, and if so in which way? A) you treat each die as a roll that equals 6 giving you a run 12 for 2 commandspoints and a charge after. B) the combined roll of the two die is =6 so any low rolls can basicly be minimum to this for an extra command point. C) you roll two die one comes up as a 6 and one is 2, you use one command point to change the second dice with a value of 2 to 6. Meaning it only effects one die but you can essential choose which. D) It cannot be combined with at the double! you cannot have nice things even at christmas!!! THIS IS NOT ALLOWED!!!! Marry christmas!

They are still a contender sure, I have yet to win against KO but nice that its doable. I don't know what there is to agree about? if you have no rend having fighting against a 2+ armor save with RR 1s will give an average of 3 damage per 100 attack if you have many attacks throwing -1 or -2 can remove many attacks there is a huge difference between 3+ and 5+ when you make many attacks. shooting is tough if your armor save is 5+ or 6+

I play them myself, they are not as great as they used to be, and alot of other armies are very strong compared to what they used to be. They are not bad. I don't know what setup you play but my cauldren and witches are almost always gone when I face off against KO or other shooting armies, and from there it goes to ****** fast, specially with the skaven spell in a bottle. DOK are easy to kill with movement impearing things, shooting and minusses to hit, we are sorta forced to take Morathi to deal with those things now with her new change.

I loled, yea they are in a really bad place, permanent resident of ****** Creek, but maybe they can rebuild a nice society now that Morathi liberated them from the tyraniccal opression! a free new glorious society!

DOK faction is in a bad place at the moment and generally had a lot of weakness and to expensives units, for what is on the warscroll. If you shoot them they die instantly, KO can kill all your heroes and and most of your witches in first turn forcing a forfeit at the start of them game. Anything that rescricts movements, the sharks no pile in rules and that horrible horrible broken skaven trap KO players use, you kill half the arm turn 1 and then the rest cannot move and gets killed right after in turn 2. Anything with an armor save of 3 or better, because there is no rend in the army and the rend you have is way to expensive, so you can simply tank all the witches, with a very small unit if it has a good save. Minus to hits, Gloomspite are a ****** they minusses and so many models are a pain and they will never have enough damage to kill them. Anything with good unbinds, they have one spell they need to do in order to do damage and its tough to get off. Stormcast with ballistas shooting cauldren and then their 2+ armor saves are impossible. Ironjaws in big waaaaaaaagh, is like witche aelves except better at everything except move, and with a spell they have better move, saves, and have ward saves aswell, rend 1 and damaage 2 on there boys. OBR: really good saves, they will kill the daughters but they daughters will never kill any of them. in short most melee armies are better than DOK at everything, maybe except khorn and most shooting armies will kill them turn 1 or kill the important things, so the rest of their units become useless.

I still get called that guy for playing DoK, and i honestly dont feel they are as powerful as the used to be, Hag and witches being 100 and 120 points from 60 and 100 hurt a lot! but I like the army and painted and collected warhammer since I was 7, now I am 30. I must admit I share the concern of most people here, with the book being called Morathi and it nerfs so many of our already less than great units. what they should have done with the ironscale, was the +1 attack should come from kills period, so if she killed a dude with a throw in the shooting phase bam +1 attack. Also they should have made it so, once she had 1 kill it would stay active, "when an Ironscale kills an enemy this, sends nearby melusai into a frezy, giving them +1 to attack while within of the ironscale. or atleast if its not permanent, make it so it can proc on her shooting attack, then you have a incentive to use it on something els than heroes. Kept crystal touch as it was, just make so it based on models and still have the same hit, so you could buff it with catacism, but not the new + attack abilities. Basicly like what evocators have, why do I have to kill snakes to use the ironscale ability?! and why does snake have to wait to use mortal wounds?! thereby risking getting killed? and why would i heal a freaking medusa by killing my own guys?! they are insanely squishy everything kills, me I don't need to kill them myself....... This whole thing just seems so misguided for the design of this army. The morathi changes, I don't know much about them I never like use great epic models and 600 points is a lot, but I don't see any other way to deal with shooting armies? The hero taxing in this army is getting out of hand a cauldren is a must, now she is a must, 2 hags are a must, that is 1000 points right there. I used to run cauldren guard, with 2 cauldrens and 70 witches. I like how this army was really fast and able to do huge amount of damage, maybe some of the most damage of all the armies out there, but today it feels like the army is just a bad save, and no benefits, because all other armies basicly have better saves and the same if not better damage. I really like the cauldren model and the gaurd battalion. But I don't know if thats still viable, it seems like witches are the most viable thing but they are not even that viable with all the shooting. This is what I used to play Haq queen 100 Slaughter queen on cauldren 330 Hag on cauldren 290 Witches x 30 with knives 300 witches x30 with knives 300 witches x 10 with bucklers 120 Doomfire warlocks x5 140 Lifetakers x5 80 Lifetakers x5 80 Bloodsister x5 140 Battalion Cauldren guard. Now with the new hero from Shadow and pain I was thinking this, bloodsisters offers a way to deal with good saves model, without smashing it with a cauldren, also they are not insanely slow anymore! but 140 is steep for her. Hag Queen (100) - Prayer: Catechism of Murder Hag Queen on Cauldron of Blood (290) - Prayer: Blessing of Khaine Ironscale (140) UNITS 5 x Khinerai Lifetakers (80) 5 x Doomfire Warlocks (140) - Lore of Shadows: Mindrazor 30 x Witch Aelves (300) - Pairs of Sacrificial Knives 10 x Witch Aelves (120) - Pairs of Sacrificial Knives 10 x Witch Aelves (120) - Knives and Bucklers 15 x Blood Sisters (420) 10 x Khinerai Lifetakers (160) BATTALIONS Cauldron Guard (120) The fun thing about this list is everything is pretty fast, warlocks/khinerais/bloodsisters/witches, and I get fewer drops with Cauldren guard. I painted 60 witches with knives, so yea not gonna paint another 60 with shields.... Both are run as Hagnar, but Im afraid the squishyness is to much, and I will just die instantly, there is a lot of Idoneth, KO, Seraphon, Big waagh, Tzeetch in my group, and all of them more or less nukes my entire in a few turns, if not turn 1. I got more bodies in the second list and some rend. Anyone got some thoughts on the two setups?

What I do normaly, is I ask people what the play and if they say KO then I avoid them like the plague I must say 700 points it quit nice. I play DOK and i normaly loose 1000+ on first turn. They just pop down shoot your cauldren, 2-3 other heroes and 1 major unit of witches and 1 smaller unit. Also if you play a melee army your a skrewed, when they drop the skaven trap in a bottle and you cannot run that game is done. people say the ships are squishy, lets be honest they have high health and a 4+ armor is not squishy and they can be repaired aswell, I play an army where super elite units have 5+ armor save, most is 6+ Combined with dropping everything, warp vortex and aether gold to reroll everything, most armies will last one turn, and not be able to move.