Aezeal

Bit you can rr 1's from archie though

First list Aiming for something basic. Not too many fancy things that might or might not do well. I think our battleline units now all have something in favor for them (TRevs not that much... But 5 are cheap and teleport can be useful to screen or possibly objective grab). Glade will be winterleaf because without fancy stuff or putting a lot on a dancing durthu (harvestboon)it just has the best all round ability that just works on everyone in every combat phase. Also bodies are good.. (Even though FEC says differently but we can't play that game) So: The basis: Winterleaf 30 dryads 270 20 spites 200 5 trev 80 Arch revenant 100 Branchwraith 80 throne of vines So far 630 Another free forest and a mage and some hitting power and shooting Treelord Ancient 300 regrowth Subtotal 930 Then some of the good stuff with point decreases Durthu 340 (general getting both winterleaf artefact and CT) Treelord 200 Subtotal 1470 And then some more raw power 2 x 3 swordhunters or 2 bows or one of each Subtotal 1870 Cogs 60 Total 1930 +1 command point I think the simple combination of wraith + cogs + throne hasn't been mentioned yet but I think it has some potential. Throne turn 1. Cogs and summon turn 2. Summon and maybe another forest turn 3.

Missed forest folk sry. Even reread it 2 times.

How is this 4 drops?

Dont think they usually react. Once all wounds have been allocated I think the target dies and no more can be allocated. I think the discussion is about different things. The first person talking about this was indeed talking about dropping one on the table and one off. Mirage seems to be saying you could drop half your units of the table as long as you drop at least an equal number on the table.. and another person was saying you needed to drop a unit on the table before you can drop amother off it (and so on for the 2nd on and off the table).

-1 for any number of units... (1+)

Now she's just damage.. but we had that already in hunters. Horde clearing was what was nice sure i used her againstmsu.. and she was usually not as effective. And fighting 30 models worth of elite units about her points (those nighthaunt ghosts) will probably kill her still while shed hurt them hard before . There are so many units that deal 10-15 wounds with ease. And ofcourse every 300 point unit will be a nice target for the doublr attack item ofc. 270 points of winterleaf dryads will probably hurt as hell with it too, especially buffed by archie. Dreadwood is a bit of a puzzle indeed. Since the teleport is at end of movement fancy stuff like placing a forest and telorting more can't be done. So whom ever is going will be going alone, needing a 9 inch charge (I know there sre options)and being fairly unbuffed. A Durthu with some nice item would probably a good idea... something to ensure survivability, like the dreadwood item (or a movement item leaving him vulnerable). But it seems a bit suicidal still if he's solo. I guess a screen of Tree revenants who have free teleport and a reroll might help him survive if they survive the battle and they can probably buy him a turn. PS isn't the martial memory wording odd? All the or or or since most stuff happens in different phases anyway (maybe it's logical for a native speaker but translated it seems odd to me)

I'd agree. Im not sayin Drycha is bad and she may proof to be worth her points but for me her main roll was killing big units and she's not better at that now. I call it a nerf mainly due to the points increase. She's rather breakable anyway with only 10 wounds.

I think alarielle can be relevant. Rather easily in a winterleaf glade but other wise she's not a brainless auto include and need a solid build centered around her (not a bad thing). Personally I think magic isn't that strong in AoS and her combat stats aren't that much better than a Durthu. I'll probably be starting my build with units that got points decreases. - Durthu - Treelord - spites -- either 3x min size and go to town with treelords (maybe lords)and hunters -- or a unit of 20 spites for offence next to 30 dryads for defense and 5 tree revs for screening and teleporting I'll compare that to an alarielle build.

Well treelord would be crazy good with bonus artefacts for 200 points which is why I doubt this.. Even though I'd like it.

On a TLA or Alarielle or another caster? But not for casting the verdurous spell since - now I think of it - even with more spells you won't know 2 spells of the lore. Nor endless spells. So basicly only the single spell you pick on the caster. I though they meant the one whose turn it is pick the order the abilities fire. So all would strike before normals.. but you could (and would) pick all your first strikers to hit first. Not to be annoying (sry, know you've only worked with the data a few hours max) but there is no wraith in that list if you add 20 dryads and 10 TRevs. And none of the endless spells (hive) either. Though 2 spites and 1 trev would give room for the hive or cogs and wraith I think. Will probably something I try I'll admit but the lack of bodies even if you summon 20 dryads and some more with the wraith if those succeed might make objectives hard to get. Btw it's not been mentioned the new forest models might be a nerf too in a way: min 3 bases and it seems the area they cover is larger than an old single Base and rounder. Often I've only been able to place single Base old forests.. Will need bigger spaces now and away from objectives (only for the first?) .. And my group likes packed tables. . Placement might become a bigger issue.

Good point.. nasty because you can't teleport an offensive unit and his buffer. However treelords etc have a warscroll ability that allows teleporting.

Not sure bravery based armies will be viable as allcomer list.

BTW I see a market for printed bases (as awakened woods) that allow old trees to be place in them.

Yeah was thinking about Alarielle and winterleaf item too. And as I said LotC seems nice though the use of 2 TLA's seems limited. Combining both however is 880 + 760 points with leaves limited room for troops to say the least , now.. maybe those aren't needed. Is that the rule? haven't looked it up but last week someone said it was player whose turn it is decides.. No true I think the +1 to cast is an aspect (trait) and with a glade you forfeit those lists (which is sad because the wizard aspects have a great list). And we WON"T be having many models with both throne and the bring back a model spell except Alarielle or if we burn an item on that (which again has much competition). However the Vesperal Gem (especially on a TLA and even better in a list with Alarielle) ... is better than that combo anyway Not sure you can do that, since inside the forest is also part of the terrain piece and you can't place it next to other stuff.. However.. you can pick your placed awakened wood. (which means.. bascily the same) Also.. there is an item (yes ANOTHER great item) for +2 to run and charge. And hive gives +3 to both move and charge (typo I guess). SO you can get +5 on the charge.. which can be nice on a teleporter (but getting the spell next to a teleporter might be tricky).

(mentioned above but probably good to keep repeating it to prevent needing to look it up) I'm not saying nerf overall But - Drycha - Alarielle seem worse -most batallions abilities seem not that good for the points (I'm not convinced about paying that much for disallowing retreats or fixed runs of 6 or retreat and charge. --> I'd have prefered a run and charge ability) - Magic trees option (my favorite flavor) seems nerved unless TLA warscroll is changed significantly (seen it now.. it's not, not so much magic trees anymore). -wholly within IS a nerf ofcourse.. but expected and within 6" isn't terrible - TLA command ability nerfed back to 1 bubble again. - forest don't activate on unbound spells anymore On the good side -places of power is a nice bonus - There are some great items in there.. VERY great items (getting more than 1 to choose from those lists will be harder though) -Free glade.. are free with decent abilities and a command ability (we always had a lack of choice there) and the fixed items aren't bad either (fixed traits aren't all that though). -Treelord cheaper -spites cheaper -Lords of the clan seems a steal except for needing 2 x TLA (weird needing more TLA's that TL's - haven't seen TLA warscroll though - anyone?) 2 TL and 1 TLA would have been great I think. Neutral -Silent communion on TLA. A sure wood turn 1 is always good but it's 1 max too - spites changes to abilities that meddle with bravery seem about equal. My view: Heartwood CA and Item are good.. but overlap with each other and with Archie. Winterleaf Great ability, good CA and good item. Trait not good.. after getting wound and THEN a 5+.. it'd be acceptable if it was 3+ or better. Dreadwood: GREAT CA, good item, ability and trait not that good. Ironbark:ability not that great, CA: basicly a limted choice D3 damage on a 2+.. not good and probably not even worth a CP, trait: not great. Item: decent Harvestboon: ability: somewhat limited but decent. CA: very good. Trait: fancy.. probably very good. artefact: basic. Gnarlroot: ability is good. CA not that good since it's limited to 1 unit and 6+, trait not that great, item: Very good. oakenbrow: ability: decent. CA: slightly better than vanilla, decent. Trait: decent. Item: decent So yeah: Winterleaf seems best with Dreadwood and harvestboon next and maybe Heartwood Not sure winterleaf needs to be dryad spam though, the ability and the item work on any unit. Q's on my side: Can alarielle be general and get the trait now (probably not and same for item but pretty sure that is a no anyway) How are old woods still useable in the army?

What I thought... that is nice for her spell.. but it's still a spell... and useless against several tough armies.

I'm not convinced she was underpriced really. And the combination of nerving some abilities and increasing points seems harsh.

Alarielle: quite a bit nerf IMHO. Only positive is the charge ability but the rest is worse and 60 points is a lot. Drycha: you now get both bugs... but the thing I used her for (anti horde) is severly nerved. Combined with a pretty steep points increase I'd say that for damage you can better get some hunters. Now you can declare her aspect but loosing the possibility of double melee attacks hurts quite a bit I'd say. The spell is a bit better but still not that good (btw bravery characteric.. is that unmodified warscroll number or can it be modified?) Durthu: How is the sword worse or the range different? It's exactly as it was right? Stomp change seems like an improvement really. Talon worse. So with the point drop this seems like a buff to me. As I said above.. I'm not sure she's that much better as a simple damage dealer than hunters and it's a lot of points in 10 wounds (which is always bad), especially since MW are a plague that increases (in our book too.. but doesn't make her less vulnerable). About our magic game.. theoretically it would be improved with the spell options and new endless spells. However.. with the casting value's and no blanket +1 spell gnarlroot bonus we are not going to be that strong in magic (unless ancients get 2 spell - I'm still hoping but since I've not seen that scroll nor anyone mentioned it I'm guessing I'm SOL. Especially in comparison to the priest game (I only know khorne thb) we are just loosing out.. I've seen them throwing 3 prayer things each a turn... each of them a VERY good ability (D6 damage is just annoying) and the reroll from the altar makes that great. 2 priest and 2 payed for endless prayers means you have 6 good abilities each turn. We need to pay tons of points to get 6 spells now. And unless GHB changes unbind range it'll probably still be hard to get may spells of anyway (lately getting 1 out of 3 each turn is average between casting and unbinds) Can anyone tell me why the battalions are so expensive btw? The abilities are pretty... not so good? I actually like the cheapest one (lords) best since it does damage and is cheap ( requirements not standard fare but with the drop on TL points a possible option I'd say).

Not sure uts a buff or bot. It's less effective against hordes, it's not gonna kill as many ogres or trolls either. On the other hand it will hurt characters and monsters now and proxies every charge phase. It's less of a deterrent against charges and none against running (and last game for example I was happy it kept 10 skullreapers moving slowly on one side of the ta ble).. but I think it might actually deal more damage during a game. Will try it out, sounds promising

Gryph feather charm?

With piling in and non ranked up moves are the still very useful?

I have seen it done.. so .. it CAN be done.. I can't be bothered though. I've build one of each from each box I had (now 1 unit of each complete) and my group doesn't mind proxying different weapons at all.

The betrayers crown can deal damage on enemy units on a roll per model basis right (book not here) If the enemy unit is valuable enough .. the wraith is only 80 points... just get here in there in a combination of blocking movement with a cheap unit (cheaper than 10 dryads) and doing hopefully massive amounts of damage. If you can't fit Drycha this would be the next best thing. (assuming I'm corect about what the item does :D) As a former gnarlroot player (and I started that because I just LOVE the idea's of ubermagic trees): if you have about 2-3 hours for a long post (or something close) could you please tell me why you build the list that way and how you play it. (I can see how winterleaf and dreadwood work and score, my last winterleaf games I had nice damage output but I've a hard time to see how gnarlroot still works). main Q's: - Why no Alarielle - Since 30" unbind I've been strugling to get much spells on the table (at first I was playing a 9 spell list and hardly got 1-2 each turn - when playing this list I DID play a lot against seraphon and gorepilgrims. These day I have non gnarlroot lists (3-4 spells per turn) and still playing Khorne a lot (thirsters with -2 unbind and overall more unbinds than I can cast spells. Anyway.. magic has been disappointing for me the last year. Do you deal a lot of damage with the woods even with spells that get unbound? basicly: do you deal with anti magic armies - How do you deal with hordes: my last game was against legions of nagash... and it was terrible. cheap units hardly dying and with tons of attacks .. and when 40 skellies are gone (I actually wanted not to kill them , just keep them low but.. "lucky" rolls made me kill the unit... ) they just come back at a grave site.

Neither of you is in the wrong.. You just like different games. Do you play against others who prefer another game like 40k or warmachines? No? Don't play him either; chances of it becoming more fun for you are slim.