Aezeal

It doesn't say unmodified casting roll.. So modifiers both pos and neg should be taken into account for it.

The fact she can benefit from some of the nice Grove buffs migrates the nerds a bit. Rr save of 1 from gnarlroot or the winterleaf exploding attacks for example. But I agree with Frowny. . Overall pretty big nerf. However Frowny says I think if you don't have plans for her in every phase and certainly combat you shouldnt use her.

Alarielle got a pretty big nerf on her command ability and lost d3 wounds healing on self. Also talon works differently Melee same beside mentioned effect of talon. Gnarlroot did exist.

Not much more than I put in the big post I made. Guess it'll be trying out stuff..

Well after my very basic list with all the good stuff and winterleaf this will definately be the 2nd army I try... well dreadwood anyway, not the exact list since I don't plan on owning 40 spites anytime soon. Look up the new warscrolls and points and think about an army with an arch revenant and winterleaf for example and the freespirits battalion. Spites are even cheaper now and a bit better so going minimum spites will leave much points for hunters and have some decent screen. With the free spirits battalion Durthu will be a bit quicker too. It'll be similar to what you have now but probably work better.

@Mirage for those casting % tages I doubt you have included unbinds, am I correct? or can we assume everthing will not be in unbind range? And for starting positioning: the Tree people need to be wholly withing 6"of a forest, will that be possible if you put the pre game forest near the middle? The 2nd forest (TLA's) will need to be 1"away from everything so it will be hard to place that and THEN get everything in 6"right? Wholly within right? That seems a bit of a stretch since our side of the table is usually 12"from enemy lines and that is where the forest will be. Wait.. is this a rule? But it doesn't count for unbinding when cast I'm sure so that might be a thing. Once I have some of the forest I'll try to put the models on the table and seen if it all is possible, because I think it's possible but I also think you give your strategy the benefit of the doubt in a bit to many instances. I think it will not work THAT good. It will be interesting to try out. Note: This assumes a recast in enemy territory since hive means Durthu will need to be next to it.. and last turn it was on the other side. Possibly you even need to dispell the spell on the other side first too I think.

I think I'll keep some dryads for defense, one of the first lists I posted till seems solid. Still seems decent.

This is somewhat unfair to gw.. It's not ambiguous. As it's written you have Verdant and the a table of Deepwood spells.. nothing at all says Verdant is a Deepwood Spell. The heading of Deepwood starts below Verdant too. I think if you deploy 6 in a double line of 3 - ends touching- you'll still have some room for teleporting within 6" of those forests. It will also keep the area small so you can work roind other terrain. I think this is what might help dreadwood. Non gnarlroot and chalice doesn't seem like an option. The combination of spellsinger and chalice can't be done.

So let me try and follow the idea Set-up You put the army down. Spirit, TLA, treelord the Tree revenants and 2 unit of spites somewhere (as far away from the enemy as possible to prevent unbinds they are all whole within range of a possibly cast Hive (this might be tight I think). Then you hope there is room for a forest somewhere ~12 inch away from a vital point in the enemy line (wholly within 24' of a TLA). Hero phase Place the auto forest (silent communion) Cast Hive between the units mentioned above. Since this is rather important I assume the Wraith first tries Thorne of Vines and then this spell. After that another caster (without bonus) tries to cast cogs. Movement phase Teleport Durthu TLA treelord and a unit of spite there using the warscrolls and army abilities. Then teleport T-revs and spites anywhere out side of 9"of enemy using Treve warscroll and Dreadwood command ability. Possibly Arch revenant tries to run towards one of the points where you try to impact too? Shooting Durthu, Treelord and TLA are in range of enemy and shoot. Charge Everything hopefully has +5 to charge,( possibly only +3 though) and you charge most of your army into the enemy - hopefully in weak points. Durthu and TLA next to each other into the biggest threat Combat Treelords both try to stomp the biggest threat on enemy side. Archie possibly uses his CA to give stuff +1 attacks. Alternate activations so you might take some damage but hopefully not from the enemies biggest threat which should die before he is allowed to activate. Durthu has -1 wound vs himself. Durthu likely not in range of wood for more attacks. Next turn - you can autocast regrowth to heal - you can summon dryads with +2 to cast and summon a forest with +2 too. Is this the idea? Or is there more too it? Q's - How reliable is the alphastrike. The chance of getting both spells is certainly not 100% and not getting them decreases charge chances ofcourse. - will there be enough room near the forest to teleport them all? - I know the wych is there only for the battalion but the spell you give it seems more suited for a defensive play while you possibly have most units in enemy territory not near forests. (the alternatives sadly are not much better I see...- the wych just sucks) - Do you think it's likely that during the alpha strike AFTER charging you will still have units wholly within 12 of the Arch revenant? I think best effect would be on one of the 20 spite units.. but those might be hardest to keep within 12. Or is here there more for a possible buff the 2nd turn in your opinion. Maybe he should not be in the list if his role is minimal - Considering the Archrev will likely not be in combat in the alpha strike wouldn't it be better to put paragon of terror on the Durthu? (this makes the chance of getting a +1 attack with CA less likely of (range only 9") - Considering the wych (as I at least conclude above) doesn't have real synergy with the list and the versperal gem is there for healing only (which is powerfull, no doubt but still) wouldn't deleting the wych and household and forgetting the item on the TLA be an option to get more bodies on the table without really compromising the alpha strike? ----- It would save 180 points and you still have 50 left over.. that means you could put in another Treelord which can teleport and would give another stomp option and some more melee potential for the alphastrike. (If there is enough room to teleport most fo this army there anyway as I said above). - Would you try go first on the first turn if you can choose. Even if enemy moves you can probably still place a forest.. possibly even easier. A double turn after the Alpha would certainly be awesome. - Have you considered or done the math on going minimal spite and use hunters instead for the alpha? 6 swords or scythes is 400 points if you drop 30 spites and 5 tree revs you save 320 points. Or remove 1 big unit , t-revs , wych and batallion = 380. And some of the left over points and keep the 2nd big until. The footprint of 6 hunter might fit better in the teleport room and within the hive circle than 20 spites? Also the unit will always be in range of the archies CA and possibly .. though I'm a bit less sure about this as I said above wholly within 12 of his rr1 ability.

I know I'll get arguments on this.. in which FAQ is this again? PS I agree with Mirage on getting some endless spells, it would be a waste if you have nothing to heal and don't have a d6 damage spell to cast with that great gnarlroot item.

Lol.. but is your interpretation (even though it apparently is a figure of speech) RAI or RAW? I can argue my interpretation is RAW which has always been the standard to which rules are held Anyway I'm much more interested in which list you actually think is most competitive for now. Also I notice that unlike in previous post you haven't included Drycha or Alarielle in this list. I must say I favour the idea of keeping 2 TL together in a defensive action to have a high chance of stomping people to the back of the row

Hmm interesting. Quick in the reply btw, was still editing my post since that wasn't the real thing I wanted to ask

Now I'm not a native speaker.. but AT LEAST sort of equals minimum right? About that dreadwood + lords list: Do you think it's better than an optimized winterleaf list? Will you try dreadwood first? If I look at it I'm thinking the winterleaf lists seem better but I have no experience with old dreadwood so maybe I underestimate it.

I actually think we might be placing several still. 1 auto, 1 TLA auto, 1 first turn by some caster who doesn't have more to do...

No it's because the thing you yourself posted says: The GUIDELINE suggests 6 minimum... and 6 minimum is not 6 maximum so there no basis of saying the minimum GW suggests should be the maximum. I prefer a low number and I like placing as much woods as I can in every nook and cranny and I will.. I certainly don't feel bad about it.. I just don't think your argument for 6 max is that good IMHO Well.. I really think woods are and should be a big part of our army.. we are the treeguys.. trees and woods match.. taking cover in woods and getting bonusses from them is about as lore correct as it gets. It might sound harsh.. but if you don't like that part of our army you might just be better of trying another army and ally in some of the good stuff sylvaneth has. Don't know how commited you are but if one of the core mechanics isn't fun to you you might just better be of not spending more on this army. (Now ofc.. this is all just from 1 remark you made... but if that is really how you feel it might be a thing to think about). I like doing damage with the woods too.. will be easier now since magic was rather unreliable so I cut down on wizards. I think I'll really like the new woods rules.

I agree you should try to minimize.. but this box is just saying you really should play with some minimum terrain and it ends on the tone of the more the better. I just don't think it really says you should limit to 1 per 2x2.. since minimum 1 per 2x2 certainly isn't maximum. Yes I think this is the way and I actually think 4 big and 4 small makes for a nice table (I think the average of D3 per 2x2.. which would be 12 is acceptable if it's mostly small stuff). Especially if you both set it up you should be able to place stuff together or near the edge (so on other places, hopefully centrally) there will be some open room. And as I said before I'm pretty sure we can make nearly linear woods now with a very small foot print (but + 6" around will give room enough for teleporting even though it might not get a unit in cover) But 8 pieces on the table makes putting 4 in a 2 x2 look odd so I doubt that will happen.. not to mention you should build the table before you roll for the scenario anyway IMHO to make it generally more fair on both parties.

Not really something you can use. Imho it says 1 minimum (no max) and the overall conclusion is more is better. There used to be something clear that said d3 per 2x2 if I recall correctly.. and alernately you and opponent set up. This meant that you could put 3 small terrain pieces on the edge of the table on a 2x2 if your opponent picked large 2x2 covering terrain pieces on his squares.

Yeah swords will be my main melee guys

I think you are interpreting rumours a bit too literally. Like the footprint of the forests was mentioned (and not by gw I think).. but I doubt they match it exactly looking at their warscroll picture it's roundish with 3 bases and not at all similar to current shape .

Not within 1" of each other

4 can easily be deployed in a line like configuration that fits nearly everywhere I think.

Downgraded.. yes

If you are right (doubt it) since you declare they run.. they could charge.. which would be huge... But it isn't I fear. It not really it's worded differently but not really confusing

Yeah it's obviously both lore and rule wise a hunter heavy glade. I guess alarielle could be used instead of a unit of hunters (summon it), TL and TLA. Not sure that would be better since you'd loose some wounds, an auto forest, the combos in delaying enemy strikes, and you'd not gain much in shooting or combat :probably loosing a bit of damage really. Am I the only one who thinks cogs are better than the swarm btw?

At first glance I don't think heartwood brings enough unless you go kurnoth heavy. Like 5 units of hunters. And then some stuff to guarantee some woods (TLA). Artefact on a wraith behind 9 bowhunters. Archie putting the CA, his buff and his CA on 6 swordhunters (forget scythes). While at it add Durthu and spirits for lower drops and a nice artefact on Big D. That brings us on 1960 without battleline though which is a problem to be solved by deleting 3 bow hunters for 3 units of spites I think. Which leaves 60 points.. Just enough for cogs. And done. PS maybe forget an offensive artefact on Big D make the item something so the TLA can reliably cast Harmony: vesperal gem or increase survivability.. in this list (MSU hunters) life wreath seems to have great potential. I think messing with Alarielle doesn't leave enough room for hunters to be worth choosing heartwood over winterleaf. Btw.. damn The high casting values on the spells. Even with 5s and 6s I hardly got stuff through .. Now it'll be worse.