Chikout

Not expecting anything for AoS, when gw themselves have said there's something for AoS, would get your picture next to the dictionary definition of pessimism.

It is weird. In the 5 months before second edition we got 25 AoS kits and 5 books. Before 3rd edition we got 7 books and 35 kits. We also got Warhammer quest that year. If we got Dawnbringers 5 with 5 kits, that will take us up to 3 books and 15 kits including the FeC from last year's box. Even if we add in 4 warcry kits we're still well short of the last two new edition years. It really does feel like there should be one more thing to fill the gap.

You are way too pessimistic. We know there's something coming for mainline AoS. The worst case scenario is that there's one more Dawnbringers 4 hero and that's all we see. Personally I think we've seen all there is for book 4 and we'll see book 5 which is a minimum of the Darkoath cavalry and a chaos hero. My guess is that we'll see that plus Darkoath on foot, Callis and Toll and a DoK hero too. Then we'll see Nighthaunt Vs Lumineth for warcry, Soulblight for Underworlds, solar Auxilithingy for 30k, ork box, custodes box and Kroot box for 40k and the mandrakes for Kill team. That would be a massive show though. They could keep some of the book 5 stuff and one of the 40k boxes back to show later. I do think we'll see everything that was in the new year videos.

Warcry is moving in that direction though as I pointed out with the chameleon skinks and the gorgers. With Underworlds it's more difficult. Honestly the best way to use them is as alternative sculpts of existing characters like the recent plague priest. Also why did Skaven make you hate Underworlds? All three of those warbands are fantastic.

The Seraphon and Ogor warbands are improved versions of old AoS units though. A kit like that is definitely a proper AoS unit.

Ok. Here's a question for you all. What to you makes for a meaningful update? Assuming we see a Nighthaunt warband tomorrow, that would make for 5 kits this edition. A special character, a regular character, two units and an Underworlds warband. If you got that for your faction of choice next edition, would you be satisfied? A lot of people were happy with the Dok update in first edition but it was only actually three kits. Personally, I think dual kits go a long way. The Ironjawz also got five kits this edition but with the dual build kit and the triple build big pig, it feels a like lot more. I would have loved to see a spear option for the steelhelms and a lance option for the cavaliers. I think it would have made the cities release feel more like an army.

Not sure what everyone is talking about. Warcry is on a 3 year cycle like 40k, AoS and kill team. We're currently in year two. Year one had quarterly big boxes but this year is different. We've had one smaller box set and two other individual warbands. There have been confirmed to be 4 more warbands in year 2. The next two are heavily rumoured to be Nighthaunt and Lumineth. The last two are unknown. Lumineth and Nighthaunt will probably be shown tomorrow, but they could just show one of the warbands like we saw with the last kill team reveal. The last two will probably be shown at Adepticon. Then we'll probably get some kind of year 3 tease at Warhammer fest. Third edition, if it comes, isn't due until 2025.

Second edition didn't get revealed until Warhammer fest. Third got caught up in COVID, so a new AoS edition has never been shown at Adepticon. I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't anything of 4th edition shown at Adepticon. It has always felt like a 40k centric show. It depends on whether there is anything coming for AoS 3rd after Dawnbringers 5.

Yeah. I'm glad some of these old minis are coming back for those that want them, but I really don't miss metal minis.

Also the next old world army is going to get revealed at the launch event this weekend. My money's on the dwarves.

New Behemoth is on the list.

Are we getting a Verminlord in the core box? Also I was kind of hoping for an Eshin or Pestilens themed box. This feels like it could be a retread of the 8th edition box which was cool but doesn't exactly have the new and exciting vibe that I've enjoyed about AoS. Let ToW have the nostalgia.

I don't doubt that list is mostly true but the contents are pretty surprising. With new starter it's not really a shock to see new clanrats but I think the current ones hold up better than the skins and the moonclan grots which are both much older and haven't been replaced. The stormvermin have pretty static poses which is emphasised by their big weapons so I'll be happy if they get replaced. No update for Eshin is a bit disappointing but a warcry warband could fix that. The current warlord and grey seer are pretty solid sculpts. I could see new versions of them in a starter set, but it feels like a bit of a waste to redo them when other kits need it more. The verminlords are decent sculpts but not quite up to the standard of the most recent kits. Again new and improved would be cool but I don't feel it's really necessary. The lack of of new plague monks is another disappointment especially after the excellent Underworlds warband. The last three kits is the most exciting part.

Context is always important. In 1st edition there were sizable updates for 9 factions. In 2nd edition there also were updates for 9 factions but both Slaanesh and Lumineth got 2 big updates. In third we've had 9 big updates. I've counted Sylvaneth and Gloomspite as their Dawnbringers additions amounted to a decent sized update across the edition. There's still time left for some more stuff before the end of the edition. A warcry unit and a hero would probably be enough to make Nighthaunt a big update overall. All that goes to show that we can expect 9or 10 more factions to get an update on 4th. We already know about Stormcast, Skaven and Chaos Duardin. That leaves another 6 or 7. I'd like to see Ogors, Malerion, BoC, cities of Sigmar, Tzeentch and KO and/or Fyreslayers. If BoC really do disappear, I'd like to see OBR get and update.

The Beastlord was designed by David Waeselynck. He's fairly active over on Instagram and gave no indication the Beastlord was an old sculpt. He did say that the event Darkoath mini was an alternative version of the the Silver Tower mini that they finally made into a mini so that sort of thing is possible but he didn't say anything like that about the Beastlord. He joined the company in 2013 and his first project was Stormcast so it can't be that old a model.

“Will post more when I’m able.” What does that mean? We’re all eager to learn more. Are the new Skaven eshin focused, pestilens focused or a bit of everything?

The worst case scenario is no 4th edition BoC book, no Daurdin in a 4th edition Cities book, no spiderfang in a 4th edition gloomspite book etc. Also no new lore or art for these things in AoS. If they get replaced that's fine but that would mean a lot of work to design minis that don't necessarily need it as much as others.

For an AoS only player moved is dropped.

So as of now these kits are currently pulling double duty in AoS and ToW. Moonclan grots, Squig hoppers, Fanatics, Mangler squigs, squig herd, (they may be using old kits for these but thst would be insane) arachnaroks, spider riders steam tank, griffon, flagellants, longbeards, irondrakes, gyrocopter, rune priest, cog smith, warden king. dryads chaos lord on foot, chaos lord on manticore, chaos marauders, chaos marauders, chaos chariots and maybe chaos giant. All the BoC stuff. I've probably missed a few. That's a lot of kits. Are we going to see them all replaced or dropped in the next couple of years?

I think a problem is that a lot of people play in their local GW store. Those stores often take the tournament rules as gospel. There are also a lot of people would love to go and play warhammer at the likes of Adepticon with their favorite army. Unfortunately due to a somewhat arbitrary ruling, that won’t be possible. I’ve certainly seen quite a few people who saw adepticon as the big coming out party for TOW. People may even have already started painting their armies for it. These days a lot of the biggest warhammer events of the year are GW sanctioned ones. Suddenly being told that your favorite army that you may have built a considerable amount of time building and painting isn’t allowed at these events is simply not a good thing. I don’t see how that is debatable. It’s not the end of the world for the game by any means but it easy to see how it would be upsetting for some. I’m not a tournament goer myself but it’s not much of a stretch to imagine a similar situation. It’s like a film you’ve excited about seeing in the cinema suddenly being a streaming only release. Sure you can still watch the movie but it won’t be the same. edit @Tonhel Any tournament that GW sponsors or does coverage for has to follow GW rules. That includes LVO and Adepticon.

Lots of pretty heated discussion right now which is understandable but a little perspective is needed. Here's my take if anyone's interested. When TOW was first announced, I was a bit annoyed. I thought it was way too early, especially with 3rd edition of AoS coming soon. I really do think it had an impact on the sales. All that said I got over it pretty quickly. I realised that there are lots of people who are not just bitter but genuinely miss a game they used to love. Seeing some of the new minis made realise that there could be some cool opportunities to add some things into my cities army or into warcry. My worry is that some members in the core study had a slightly more extreme reaction than I did and still haven't got over it. They should be encouraging cross compatibility not forbidding it. As a miniature company they would surely sell more models if people thought they could be used in both games. Some factions need to be differentiated like empire Vs cities but some really don't. Deamons already do triple duty in AoS, 40k and Horus Heresy. Keeping them out of ToW makes absolutely no sense. On the flip side if they do drop AOS BoC in favour of TOW, they be doing one of the things I was most worried about, namely hurting AoS in favour of TOW. There's no need to do this. They could absolutely keep BoC as completely the same faction in both settings without hurting either. As for the pdf situation, the messaging is really bad. They are a pretty small team who are currently supporting 6 games so it's understandable that they would want to limit the number of factions that receive active development, but cutting the other factions out of tournaments is completely unnecessary. Although GW said initially that extra factions would be getting pdfs, there was definitely no indication that they would be so completely cut off from the main game. So long as they make sure that the pdf factions are not too powerful, they should allow them in tournaments. If GW follow the normal path the pdf factions will gradually fall behind the power curve over time. There's nothing wrong with this. People play blood bowl with teams they know are rubbish just because they love them. Fortunately independent tournaments will probably just ignore these restrictions. People were playing Tomb Kings and Bretonnia for years in AoS. If the current game is a success, there will presumably be a second edition at some point. The current language is saying that the likes of Skaven will never be a part of the game. That does not inspire confidence in the future of the game.

There have been rumours that Beasts of Chaos were going to get squatted since 1st edition. Let's look at the reasons why or why not beasts of chaos may stop being a dedicated faction. Reasons for squatting: They are an old faction with a large number of old world kits and many resin kits remaining. The introduction of ToW allows gw to port all the kits straight over to the other setting. Gw might want to reduce the number of books they produce in order to make way for brand new factions. Some kits that looked ideal for BoC have gone into other factions. Reasons for keeping: They are a popular faction that has always seen play despite the lack of new kits. Even when the rules weren't good they saw more play in tournaments than the likes of Fyreslayers. BoC had to be in the old world. There's no way to write them out of the setting in the way they did with Skaven. In the lore they are everywhere. Like daemons there is no lore reason why they would look different in the two settings. Having a faction doing double duty in two settings with different bases is hardly unique (deamons of chaos) . Although BoC hasn't had many additions to the core range, the concept clearly interests the studio. We've had Tzaangor and Slaangor added to the range. We've even had a 40k beasts of chaos warband. In order of squatting/moving/ completely reworking likelihood l'd order it like this. 1 bonesplittas (the least popular army in the game) 2 spider fang 3 dispossessed (unlike with BoC it would be weird to have kits with exactly the same design in both settings) 4 chaos Duardin again (I just don't think a new chaos Duardin army would be nearly as popular as Beasts of Chaos with a FeC style update) 5 beasts of chaos. If I was GW I'd allow the ogroid and the warcry monsters to go in the BoC army and drop the bullgors, the doombull I'd make a new shaggoth as a centrepiece, redo the bestigors, the centigors, add pestigors, khornegors and a couple of new monsters to replace the old ones. A couple of foot heroes would round out a FeC sized update. As the for Honest Wargamer rumour he's wrong as often as he's right and also likes to mess with people so you really can't take his rumours seriously.

Those were the same rumours that said tomb kings were getting a chariot and mummies. I doubt those orc and empire rumours are true.

Isn't this true for pretty much every large decision GW makes though? Starting with Tomb Kings Vs Bretonnia is surely a corporate choice both to play on nostalgia and to avoid overlap with AoS. Assuming it's true that Skaven are the 4th edition army for AoS, having them not appear in The Old World seems like another corporate choice rather than a strictly narrative one. The famous example is the Horus Heresy being dreamed up so they could have both sides of the Adeptus Titanicus box be the same. You're absolutely right to call this out as corporate spin, I just felt it was worth pointing out that pretty much every community article is doing the same thing.