Neil Arthur Hotep

That would actually be super sweet. Fun stat, btw: A Steelhelm counter-charge kinda looks like trash, but it is equivalent to a round of melee from a Steam Tank. But with the added bonus of your opponent probably not wanting to spend command points on All-Out Defense, since they are on the attack.

That's also something I would like. My problem with using suppressive fire so far has been that you can only trigger the order in your own shooting phase. Which means that to use it, you need to shoot but not kill a unit, beat its bravery, and then get it involved in melee and then have another one of your units in melee. All only on your own turn. Which is actually kind of hard to do. If you could suppressive fire off of Unleash Hell (or any shooting attack) it would actually be super nice. Get charged, make them strike last, get in a hit with your Blazing Weapons bayonets. Seems like a fun interaction.

For me it's an excuse to finally build and paint the cavaliers and marshall I previously could not fit into my list. And to maybe try out a Gyrocopter on the table. 4th ed is bound to shake up everything anyway, maybe Fusiliers will be good again in 6 months. EDIT: Eyeing up this list right now: Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar - City: Misthavn - Grand Strategy: - Triumphs: Leaders Alchemite Warforger (100) Steam Tank Commander (290) - Artefact: Glimmering Steam Tank Commander (290) - Artefact: Mastro Vivetti's Magnificent Macroscope Pontifex Zenestra, Matriarch of the Great Wheel (180) Battlemage on Celestial Hurricanum (260) Freeguild Cavalier-Marshal (120) - General - Command Trait: Divine Champion - Universal Prayer Scripture: Curse Battleline 10 x Freeguild Steelhelms (100) 10 x Freeguild Steelhelms (100) 5 x Freeguild Cavaliers (180) 5 x Freeguild Cavaliers (180) Units 6 x Freeguild Command Corps (200) Total: 2000 / 2000 Reinforced Units: 0 / 4 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 115 Drops: 11

This really shows how out of whack the points are. Cities get basically two allegiance abilities: Orders and their subfaction bonus. The subfaction bonus typically does not help Fusiliers. So the only reason to bring them over an ally is access to Orders. If we have allies that can do more damage for fewer points and Orders are not enough to tip the scales, then Fusiliers are really in trouble. Fusiliers are cool, though. I hope they rework their role somewhat in the next edition. Personally, I feel like they should be a unit that can be run as MSU and is good at receiving a charge (+1 rend on unleash hell or something). Before the battlescroll, they were functionally an artillery piece, which does not match the way the models look, IMO. Especially since cannons exist. Right now they are kind of without a role.

I mean, sample size of one and all that. I wonder how many terrain pieces they will stat out for this, and whether they will have any "generic" buildings, walls and towers. I would expect them to provide warscrolls for all the 3rd edition AoS terrain, I think that's a given. Next most likely is probably the Warcry stuff. Maybe faction terrain and older terrain kits, too? Wildwoods? I can see myself playing this, anyway. Maybe not the team game mode, but a one-shot siege? Seems like it could be fun. These rules look like they fix a problem I have had with previous GW siege rules (such as the ones from 2nd ed): I don't want to play a separate game before the game to determine who gets some kind of bonus. I like that the new rules are compatible with filling up a table with some terrain and having reasons not to just ignore it, so that you can play asymmetric one-off scenarios. That really is what I want from siege rules as a base-line.

I don't think this scenario is impossible: - Battletome update with a few kits for Ironweld and Devoted to Sigmar. - Mini dwarf wave sometime, maybe as part of an event box or something. The whole subfaction is just two unit kits, two heroes and the Gyrocopter right now. They can be updates in one go if GW pushes for it. - Another Underworlds warband or two. - Another Warcry warband or two. - Dark elves during the end of Edition campaign. S2D and Soulblight updated all their old stuff over a few big releases. I don't see why this should be impossible to do with Cities as they currently are (mostly humans, some dwarves, some elves).

Personally, I think if they intend to keep elves and dwarves in Cities, then it makes sense to push out model updates soon. It would be much preferable compared to dragging the old Fantasy models along for another edition while humans get more and more developed. I really hope they decide to give Cities as much attention in 4th as Slaves to Darkness got in 3rd. If they do, we will have a fully developed, bespoke Cities range by the start of 5th.

The math has certainly shifted in that regard. My rule of thumb that I use to quickly get an idea of how good a unit is, is that a 3+/3+ profile is about twice as good as 4+/4+ (in reality, it is slightly worse than that, but it's a good mental shortcut). Irondrakes at 1 3+/3+/-1/1 vs Fusiliers 2 4+/4+/-1/1 is about equal according to that. But currently, with the Fusiliers having a lower ceiling for buffs, maybe Irondrakes are actually starting to look more attractive. Although I have to say: I though Irondrakes were previously just overall not worth bringing, I don't know if it helps they are now relatively better compared to other units in the faction. Currently, two cannons + Lord Ordinator looks pretty attractive compared to 20 Fusiliers + Master of Ballistics. But I would not buy into that list for the time being, with 4th ed being so close. Agreed, and I would go further: I think Fusiliers currently don't have a role in Cities. Objectively, I don't think there is reason to run them. The Steam Tank Commander is just overall a really good and fun to play unit. It makes good use of nearly all the different orders and can self-buff with them. 100% still worth bringing even at 290. Its shooting may not look all that impressive, but is still fairly scary in actual play. If you run the Tank Commander with Hurricanum support (which I have found to combo very nicely), they will actually Return Fire at +1 to hit, which is unlikely for most other shooting units. And you can Return Fire on an opponent's Unleash Hell, which is not super reliable or practical, but very satisfying when you pull it off. I really like two Steam Tanks Commanders + Hurricanum. That combo has won me several games so far and always felt strong. I think a natural match for the list, after adding good stuff like the Command Corps, would be to fill it with other high mobility units. 300 points of Cavaliers+Marshall certainly seem more attractive right now than 340 points of Fusiliers, that's for sure.

Looks too much like a "normal" axe, IMO. No cyber bits on it at all.

It really seems like there are just a few possibilities here: Grombrindal An actual new Dispossessed model A TOW dwarf I am hoping it's just a straight up new Dorf. That would mean we finally get clarity about the future of Duarding and Cities of Sigmar, which I'd like to see happen sooner rather than later.

I don't think anyone is surprised by the nerf, but given that the Castellite/Gunpowder units are a big draw in the new Cities range, it sucks that they are currently all kind of not worth seriously considering. I think it's valid to feel disappointed with GW for putting so little care into writing the Cities battletome that one of popular archetypes in it already had to be invalidated. It's also worth pointing out that the Fusilier nerf was not "they are more expensive now so their output might no longer be cost efficient" but "the interaction that made them good has been removed". I agree with limiting the Alchemite spell to melee. I think overall that makes the book's design better. But ideally the version of the rule that made it apply to ranged weapons should have never even made it to print. We have known since Sentinels at least that ranged mortals on the hit roll are problematic. Right now we are in the bad situations that people have built and painted lists that just no longer work, and that situation could have been avoided.

Nah, it's like an action movie: "OK Sigmar, I don't like you and you don't like me. But we need to get the old team back together for one last job. And this time, it's personal. 😎"

Sure, could be. On the other hand, the Skaven-Nagash grudge runs deep. If anyone could make Nagash and Sigmar team up again, it would probably be those damn rats messing with his stuff again.

If I had a nickle for every time Skaven destroyed my black pyramid doomsday weapon, I would have two nickles. Which is not a lot but it is weird that it happened twice.

I agree with a lot here, but I think you are overstating the case just a little bit. In my experience playing Fusiliers, it is true that they want two heroes around them for Advance and Counter Fire. That has never been a huge problem for me, though: One of the heroes was typically Zenestra (who is able to give a bunch of units an order all at once with her long base) and the other (until now) was the Alchemite that I brought to buff them, anyway. And usually, past turn 1, they didn't actually need Advance all that much, because they were already in position in the middle of the board. So, in my mind, they don't need two dedicated heroes just babysitting them the whole game. They need one, and another one that can occasionally help out. Or you can run the Ven Densts for double orders at 160 points if you prefer that. Doralia is even a ranged attacker. As the Fusiliers currently are, I don't think they need a lot of support, actually. But they do need the Master of Ballistics command trait to do any work at all. If you are worried about command points, it can go on a Freeguild Marshall. And then, I think, that's all you need. Your subfaction choice is still free that way, and you paid "only" 340+90=430 points for it. Definitely don't think that Greywater is needed (I think it's actually a trap choice). You can save on command points in other places during list building, too, such as by bringing a Hurricanum to give your hammers +1 to hit instead of using All-Out Attack for that purpose. But the question is: Are Fusiliers currently worth an investment of 340 points + a hero + a command trait. I think even at that point, it's not clear. They are the best ranged human ranged attack option: 42 shot of 3/3/-1/1 is not bad. But the nerf left them a lot weaker off-turn. Their Counter Fire is no longer very scary. Their Unleash Hell is kind of a joke now. Those used to be very strong points before that, IMO, made them worth building around. Also, the command trait is actually a significant opportunity cost, because it dictates your general. That limits your ability to unlock battleline a lot, which means you have to run at least one Steelhelm unit, plus another or a Wildercorps most likely. Personally, that is actually the big thing pushing me away from Fusiliers when I try to build new lists. I find it hard to have them and still cover battleline efficiently at the same time. As it stands, I suspect Fusiliers are not competitively viable. They definitely need a points drop back to at least 150 points, like they originally were. 170 is too high for them, given their current buff potential. I don't think we will see this drop before 4th edition, though. I have not yet played with Fusiliers under the new rules, but will play a game with a list that was originally built around the Alchemite/Fusilier combo in two weeks. My list is currently pretty janky, since it runs Master of Ballistics on the Alchemite, who now no longer has a reason to be close to the Fusiliers at all. I am still trying to work out what their new role will be. They should still be able to hit a unit pretty hard on-turn, with the Master of Ballistics buff. I still have Pall of Doom, so that gets around All-Out Defense and has the potential to force a big Battleshock loss. Other than that, I will try to see if they can do work with Suppressing Fire, but that order has been pretty difficult for me to make use of so far.

Pretty sure we already have soul destruction in the setting. Anyways, it will just make it like real life, where people die when they are killed.

Whitefang insinuated that GA: Death would get involved as protagonists as well, so I am thinking that Skaven might figure out how to destroy or otherwise mess with souls. Obviously, that scares Sigmar, since it might stop Stormcast from reforging. But Nagash would also hate it, since he views all souls as being rightfully his. That would explain the team-up.

All I am saying us, don't tread on me, Sigmarites!

Must be that kind of freedom where you allow some kind of shadowy entity to dominate your entire life, but at least you don't have to pay taxes.

OK, real talk, though: They knew exactly what they were doing with that colour scheme, right?

It will actually probably not be a mini, since they announced it on the merch store update.

Happy threadiversay, everyone!

It's a hard balance to strike. I feel like a game like Warhammer, where it takes a long time to get an army fully finished if you engage with the game like you are "supposed to", needs somewhat stable rules over time. I think it is not very controversial to say that the last edition of AoS had too many, too significant rules changes too quickly. So, personally, I don't want that rules model again in the future (neither in AoS nor TOW). But I also don't want to end up in the Lord of the Rings space of no real updates at all for forever. In AoS, I still like what they are doing with battlescrolls, giving us small quarterly (more or less) adjustments to the rules to help fix obvious issues as they become apparent. I think, within a few months, people will be asking for balance updates for TOW, as well. Many are already trying to push house rules/comp packs that address certain unpopular aspects of the rules. This kind of regular support coupled with a longer edition cycle would be ideal for me.

I can't imagine that the long-term plan for TOW is anything other than placing all the factions on the battletome (arcane jounrnal?) treadmill, just like with every other system. Maybe we will see a new faction per edition, but the vast majority of the updates have got to be "book and a hero" style.

I an always amazed by how much even a minimal amount of terrain adds to the look of a model: