LuminethMage
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Posts posted by LuminethMage
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32 minutes ago, adboyslim said:
Now we are talking about ballista, I just thought about something... (not sure about the rules). They have multiple attacks (3 if not in bataillon). They can target different units in the same shooting phase? Therefore if they use the ability they can give -1 to-hit potentially to 3 different units?
According to the wording “units that are hit” which implies it can be more than one, that seems to be the case, if you split your attacks and hot multiple units. It’s only until the end of the turn though, so if you do not get into combat within the same turn the effect is over.
4 hours ago, Yondaime said:Not that i am complaing, i really love alarith lore, rules and even models (and i get SO much hate for this xD)
and i fell like playing them is so much funnier than spamming sentinels and wardens
Oh yeah, I didn’t think you are complaining : ). It’s just less fun for people like me who don’t play Ymetrica, and generally I don’t think it was a good idea to pick a faction that is so closely connected to just a small part of the Lumineth (in the lore and in the rules) as the main faction for the whole. It’s different from many other armies where usually the one they pick is the most representative of the whole, like with Stormcast, DoK etc.
But, in the end it is what it is : ). And generally they have done a good job with Lumineth.
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3 hours ago, Evantas said:
Not sure if I read the tomes properly, but Ymetrica allegience basically does nothing for Vanari and Scinari heroes right? So maybe the purpose of almost all heroes coming from Ymetrica is to keep the named heroes stuck with no allegiance abilities?
Which could be a good balance consideration.
That's very likely the case, but it would have been better to make sure they don't have to do this. Lyrior is from a Tyrionic nation, but Ymetrica, the Twins are from Iliatha, but Ymetrica, Sevireth is from Haixiah, but is from Ymetrica.
If it's about balance - like Koradrel mentioned above - they could just have said "can't take faction traits", it would have been better. Or make them work with everything like Eltharion and Teclis.
But the reason most likely is balance, yup. Or their faction painting scheme, so after they chose Ymetrica everyone had to be shoehorned in there.
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On 4/14/2021 at 3:05 AM, LoonKing98 said:
More than likely the consequences of her actions will be felt in a future installment, but already alienation from Sigmar's support is big enough. Mortathi actually holdings so far include Har Kuron and bits of Ulgu, correct? She herself has immense power, but her actual empire is quite small in comparison. I'm assuming any Khaine temples would been rooted out in cities still loyal to Sigmar, following Morathi's betrayal.
On a different note, with Morathi's role in Kroak's model reveal trailer- are we setting up a split right down of the middle for Order? Morathi, Seraphon, and any Idoneth swayed by her gifts on one side- Sigmar, Teclis/Tyrion, and Arrielle on the other? The Duardin would of course fight for whichever side would pay better.
So far we don't know though if any of this really comes into play in the future. There has been no news about any issues with Khanite temples in other cities, nor that Sigmar does anything about Morathi. He didn't trust here before, and still had to go along with what she did, they could do just the same thing again in the future. She got actually more powerful in BR Morathi, Teclis and the Lumineth didn't. I like BR Morathi, I just don't think there is any real difference between how the negative side for the protagonists are handled in both books - it's all a vague something that could happen in the future, or be forgotten because the story just moved on.
The Order split could be interesting yeah - I understood Morathi's part in trailer more as she wants to redirect Kroak, because he would come for her, and it would be more in the direction of Chaos. The Seraphon seem to be difficult to include in any side really, as they are always doing their own, largely mysterious thing. When they introduced Broken Realms they mentioned Alarielle lashing out against allies, including Stormcast, so she might not come out on Sigmar's side.
They handle this part very well, seems like Order is pretty chaotic right now, hard to say how this goes.
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On 4/13/2021 at 10:25 PM, stratigo said:
And how exhaustive is this list?
Look, you aren't using datasets very well. I can use this graph to argue "Well seraphon isn't that overpowered really". And that'd be ridiculous.
Where are you sourcing your data? Honestly it's not looking like you have done your due diligence in statistics. Maybe to argue against needed nerfs for your faction? Indeed it looks like AoSshorts format, but, I can't find this dataset on their website at all. Their last one ends in September far as I can find. Did you do it yourself? I'd like to see some analysis behind this dataset if it exists.
Now, it does annoy me somewhat that THO doesn't regularly leave their stats in writing where I can find it, leaving them mostly in video format, and thus not easily linkable, but they do good stats. Their most recent stats video is promising something big for stat in the future, so here's hoping. Ultimately though, going with their regular analysis, LRL are easily in the top 5 of armies. I place them number 3, after seraphon and IDK.
It's all the 5 round+ tournaments he knows about. It should be all of them, but maybe a few are missing. You can find more information about this on his Twitter. He just updated the file again a few hours ago with the newest TTS data (below). If you combine the win-rate data and the tournament wins - sure you could try to argue that Seraphon aren't overpowered, which is fine by me. Definitely harder to do than with Lumineth though.
And the rest does just seems an ad-hominem attack without having looked at the statistics much yourself so far. Which are the 11 tournaments that Lumineth won that you mentioned in your previous post? Where is that data from? It's funny that you are accusing me of providing selective data while you yourself just state they are OP without providing any data at all. What's your "top 3" view based upon?
From what I know, AOShorts, DKHM and the Listbot are the most exhaustive data sets that are available to us for in-person games. They are usually what people in the community are referencing. They are on Twitter, and will be happy to reply to any questions you have about their data.
Here is the updated file set from AoShorts, including the newest results (mostly TTS, marked in black):
Here is the DKHM file, they use tournament results since the GHB2020 has dropped.
If with THO, you mean The Honest Wargamer, I also mentioned the results of their latest analysis, which focuses on TTS, and had Lumineth at at win rate of 48%. Not in the top 5 and certainly not top 3.
Seraphon 62%, Idoneth 60%, Dok 58%, Fyreslayers 54%, DoT 53%, Ogor Mawtribes 52%, Nurgle 50%, and then LRL, Stormcast and OBR with 48% and whole other bunch with 47%. There are a few others up there which aren't played a lot and are outliers.
Here is the link: https://thehonestwargamer.com/age-of-sigmar-tts-stats-15-2-21/ .
As you can see, there are some discrepancies between all those data sets (especially between only TTS and the in-person and mixed results), but none of those point at the LRL being really OP right now. DKHM has a nifty new graph showing how each factions does comparing TTS to in-person.
If you mean something else with THO, please point me to where I can have a look at it.
Of course these results are all before the latest expansion of the LRL - and maybe the LRL will become too strong in the future, and need to be nerfed. That's a possibility with the range being extended to twice its size. But as of now, you'd have to look at several other factions first if your concern is only about balance.
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7 hours ago, Acid_Nine said:
I played a few games with lumineth, and I gotta say there is a whole lot that can go wrong or right with them in any given game. I got lucky with my last game and had gotten the top of turn for every round, and it was pretty harrowing making sure I had every buff in place in order to withstand a charge from a bunch of very angry Bullgors. The lord-regeant really did prove himself vital with this, as the Greater power of Hysh spell is worth it's weight in gold in my opinion. When combined with my wardens it allowed me to get an offensive buff off in addition to ethereal blessings / Protection of hysh, which gave them a whole lot of longevity.
Also finally learned to just put speed of hysh on my dawn riders. I always mean to cast it with someone else but lumineth almost need a flow chart of what to cast when. I tried going for lambient light, but it wasn't always helpful if I was being honest. I may put it on my cathallar in the future just because she will be walking with my wardens up the field.You probably also play against some good people - judging from where you play : )
Why do you think Speed on Hysh is good on the Danwriders? I usually have it on someone else (mostly Warden) and cast it onto them. With the Lord Regent it all is much more flexible though, depending on how you use him (first or as a back-up).
What to cast when, and what to do when your spells don't go off (besides screaming and sobbing) is one of the most interesting things for me playing Lumineth. : )
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9 hours ago, Enoby said:
I don't see it as too bad, if they're just two new warscrolls
AoS has the benefit of free warscrolls so any additional ones come at no additional cost. The battalions are also pretty unspecific in HoS so these guys can fit in them no problem.
I very rarely look to my battletome for warscrolls anyway.
We don't know yet if that is really all there is though. There might be some rule changes, battalions etc. in the book too.
Mind you, I'm generally more on the "who cares" side on all of this, but it's best to judge after we know what's actually in the Broken Realms book.
Anyway - awesome miniature! : )
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I'm not happy specifically - I got my models so I'm fine without anything new, but sad for people waiting for Soulblight, and the rest of Broken Realms. I had this last year with the Lumineth, it's not fun knowing your stuff should come soon, but then get's delayed.
But, for people who have bought all of the recent releases I guess it's good thing : )
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1 hour ago, Koradrel of Chrace said:
Do you think the Lance battalion would be better?
Although if some of the rumors about 3E are true, we might not have to worry about battalions in competitive play anymore.
It depends to be honest. Basically both of them save you CP for re-rolling ones. I usually play only with 5 Dawnrider - and they mostly get to charge once in game, then they are dead. Until so far, they were often out of range to use CA, so in that case it was useful. But now you could have a Lord Regent in range. Danwriders have the sunmetal weapon ability, which makes re-rolling hit rolls extra useful though over the Bladelords.
The Bladelords ability is really niche I think. A unit where you want to use your multi-hit ability over your auto-hit ability has to charge you. No Sunmetal ability (sniff). If you have a local meta with a lot of big units on small base sizes that going to charge you, but then don't kill your 5 man unit when they do, and you can strike back and roll a bucket loads of dice - then this ability is useful of course. Or, in case the Bladelords get the sunmetal abilities in the end (which I don't think will happen). You can orchestrate it a bit of course with our double activation (pile in two Bladelords units to get the bonus).
In the end it depends what you think is more likely - you charging a lot with your Dawnriders into units with 1, 2 wounds, or being charged a lot by units where you can use the multi-hit ability of the Bladelords.
Probably both are more useful for the extra CP and artifact you can get.
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I’ve played with the Twins, they and the Loreseeker are probably the most fun units we have right now.
I had 5 Bladelords with them and from T3 onwards they can do so good damage, especially for a Lumineth unit. Best thing is the teleport. Not sure if they are the best thing competitively, but I try to build a list around them.
So thumbs up! The Bladelord battalion will likely do nothing for you besides the extra CP and artifact in most matches.
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Just for the people who might have not done that yet. The new novel “The End of Enlightenment” is pretty good. It’s foreseeable how the story will end - especially if you have heard anything about what’s happening in BR Teclis, lol - but it has some genuine good characters in my view, and even the OBR part is pretty strong at the start.
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Very nice, the candles are a good idea!
And just a few photos from a friendly match. Yesterday.
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3 hours ago, stratigo said:
You're looking at the wrong stats, and the timeline is too extended, there's like 5 months where lumineth literally didn't have the models to play competitive, and in the remaining period they still wracked up 11 tournament wins, while all these other factions were available the entire time. Indeed they had more wins then anyone but seraphon (the king of the meta) and DoT
DoT were, earlier, like so brutally overpowered they were essentially unbeatable by anyone, and GW had to emergency nerf them a couple times to leave them merely normally overpowered instead of essentially unbeatable. I'd love to see this corrected to post tzeentch nerf to see where they stand, which I imagine is still pretty good.
Also, like, this isn't taking out the outliers like the legion of grief or hedonites there and you are trying to be misleading by pointing only to winrates, which is only part of determining a faction's strength.
Don’t like those stats? Here is one with tournament wins:
These are from AOShorts.Not seeing the Lumineth winning more than anyone else besides Seraphon. Which ones are you looking at?
TTS, the last one I saw from THW, they also were just good, but not outstanding, although the second most played faction at that time. That was a month or two ago though, there might be newer numbers which I haven’t looked at. I’m not following TTS that much.
I’m not trying to be misleading at all. I mentioned other stats, and have shown tournament win rates before in other threads. I also think that people are smart enough to see that Legion of Grief is an outlier looking at how many people play it.
I’m not saying the LRL are bad by any means. But, so far where is the data showing them dominating the scene?
Also the stats aren’t perfect, but they are still better than people just saying faction a or b is OP.
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34 minutes ago, AaronWilson said:
Absolutely mad model, I cannot wait to see that new warscroll.
Will be interesting to see what they'll do with his warscroll, yup. The model is awesome, hopefully he get's an equally awesome scroll and fitting points. Then most people will be happy : )
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22 minutes ago, Sharklone said:
Oh definitely not trying to single lumineth out that was just the experience I had. I'm sure Lumineth has its own struggles against certain armies or the hero sniping isn't as effective which is probably why its not at the top of the meta.
I get the idea of talking to him about not using those units, but that feels ******, poor dude loves lumineth and Teclis, and now hes stomped a few of our little gaming group with the list he doesn't get to play the models anymore. I play OBR and often get the same thing with people saying they don't want to play them, and it is a real ****** feeling after the money and time spent on the models. They basically come out for competitive stuff and stay tucked on the shelf for anything else
@whispersofblood thanks for the advice I will look into it. It just seems unfortunate that the best way to play khorne is... to not play khorne and use S2D models instead. I'm sure its not just khorne that struggles with this. I suspect any army that has a reliance on small 5-6 wound heroes or is weak to bravery shenanigans would be in the same situation.
Anyways, I didn't want to turn this into a lumineth bashing thread, just wanted to share my experience of balance. Back to your regularly scheduled programming people.
Sorry, it's more about the general situation, if you look at the other posts, concerning the LRL part : ).
I also love to play with my toys and have Teclis. He is really fun to play because of being such a great tool box. But, I think - if your friend has the models - they also would like to have more open games, and Lumineth are also fun to play without Teclis or a lot of Sentinels. I had a match against CoS last time - where we had a bit of a similar problem (not as one-sided as your game by any means though), so next match against the same person, I'll make a list with a lot of the Mountain guys and Eltharion as its core, no Teclis, not much shooting. Depends of course on your friend having an alternative.
Hopefully the really low performing armies get a look at during Broken Realms. I'm not sure why they started with Idoneth, DoK, Lumineth and maybe Seraphon and KO next. 😅
Anyway, I hope you find a good solution. You could use your OBR : )
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@Sharklone As some pointed out, your opponent played probably the best LRL tournament list that doesn't include the new models. You would likely have had the same problem against many books like Seraphon, Tzeentch, KO etc.
If it's someone you play regularly and you guys are playing more for fun than for tournament training - you might talk to him about changing the list a bit - no Teclis, or less Sentinels should do the trick. With the new models it's now also much easier to do.
It's a bit weird to single out Lumineth - at least so far they haven't been on the top of the meta. Here is one list, there are many more, which all show the same thing, LRL are good, but by far the strongest army so far. https://aoslistbot.herokuapp.com/sotm/
There are several other similar list (in-person games, as well as TTS, which all largely show the same).
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The second part (Pit of Cathartia) is also interesting. As Tyrion can't exist in Ulgu, maybe he can just in the place where the light from Hysh shines into Ulgu, but that would be of limited help I guess.
The only one he could be fighting in Ulgu that is stronger than Nagash would be the newborn part of Slaanesh - but that's also a bit of a stretch, if it doesn't have the full strength of Slaanesh.
The traitor part is very intriguing. I don't think there is any hint anywhere who this could be in BR Teclis (also not so far in End of Enlightenment).
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1 hour ago, Darnok said:
I have, but Teclis would die a wobbly death in one of those as well. Not sure about Kroak. Still: unplayable models in my opinion - not an issue though, since I wouldn't play either of them for different reasons.
I don't even use magnets, but foam, and haven't had any problems transporting Teclis so far. And people have been using magnets too without issues.
The Kroak model is such a stunning model, worth to put in some effort to transport it. It'll be possible if you want to.
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Happy for Serpahon players - that's an awesome model. Hopefully there is more!
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1 hour ago, yukishiro1 said:
Yeah, it doesn't compare well with DoK either, though in different ways.
According to Vince you have a lot of books to single out, why make this into yet another complain about LRL thread?
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12 hours ago, Kaleb Daark said:
Other than the cover and gilt edging, do the collectors editions have anything else like additional artworks etc?
No. They have a number in it, so that you know which one you got from the 700 available, that’s the only other difference.
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I really want to see how this works on the table. With other units taking part, space problems etc. I'm sure there are some cases, where people who are good with this can pull off some great plays. I have a hard time seeing this to be a common thing in most games though. But I might be wrong. I find this hard to judge.
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1 hour ago, adboyslim said:
Sorry about the noob question : in this forum I see a lot of discussion speaking about persistent spell that are not LRL like cogs, spell portal, a vortex and palissade. Are they all regrouped in one bundle? Do you know where I can find the rules if I want to test them and use proxy?
BTW thanks @chosen_of_khaine for this kind of explanation before. This is very valuable for a beginner like me. I was not aware of this paradoxal rule of the donkey with 2 carrots at same distance 😀
Most of the Endless Spells are bundled in a product called Maligned Sorcery. But there are a few important ones, for us mainly the Balewind Vortex, that are not. Currently, you might not be even able to buy the Vortex. Malign Sorcerery has most of them though, like the Cogs and the Spell Portal.
You can go to the Warhammer Warscroll Builder website, select Lumineth under Order and scroll down to see all the endless spells we can use (names and points, not rules). You can have a look at their Warscrolls on the free app, or on the GW website. Maybe there are other good options : )
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The spirit of mount Orovelai (Avalenor) is finally done. It’s a great model, and at first I had a lot of fun painting it, but the last 2 weeks or so were a bit of a drag.
I finally can start with the new models.
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1 hour ago, Aelfric said:
Although I like the Bladelord models, I have 20 Spire of Dawn Swordmasters still on sprue who have been waiting patiently for many years and I am not a millionaire. So, they will be my new Bladelords. I am assuming they are on 32mm bases, but could someone confirm this before I actually put them together.
Thanks.
(Now waiting for a Vanari Regent on Gryphon to be released
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They are on 32mm bases : )
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That sounded like a fun game, I can imagine the “oh ****** moment” when the Chaos Knights popped up next to Teclis : ).
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AoS has the benefit of free warscrolls so any additional ones come at no additional cost. The battalions are also pretty unspecific in HoS so these guys can fit in them no problem.
Aos 2 - Lumineth Realm-Lords Discussion
in Lumineth Realm-Lords
Posted
Yeah I hope they make a novel with them in the future.