Rors

I think the most viable tactic again giants is basically the same no matter what army you bring because their strategy is the same no matter who they face. Giants move onto the objectives and you either clear enough of them off by turn 3 or you're too far behind on points. With NH I'd mass charge everything into one giant at a time and focus of bring one down a turn if you can. Keep at least one unit aside for deepstrike so if they move a giant over to help the one you're murdering, you can deepstrike onto the objective they left behind. It's a pure damage check army that objective camps so focus on one objective at a time and you'll be ahead by turn 5. If you spread out your damage they'll be too far ahead on points by the time you start dropping them.

I'm starting to think the curse is a bit of a trap on characters because they'll usually heal it back. It's still a hero action they're burning and if they have multiple heros with 4-5 wounds it puts a clock on them somewhat. However you get bonus damage against monsters. It's unlikely to ever kill one but bracketing them earlier drops their out put and makes it easier to pick them off. Those small units that sit in the back lines are also a good target. Chipping wounds off means they might die before they can do a turn 5 objective steal and it also helps you get rid of stuff that's screening you out from deepstrike. I think the best case use is probably Morathi. She can't heal and taking D3+1 each battle round means you can somewhat ignore her.

So if you took triple heros from two different clans, like master clan and molder, would you get both layers of effects from both clans?

My bad I didn't see Warlord when I looked at your list @Tinniez

Did you mean to use a different battalion? You have too many artifacts currently and too many heros to be a one drop. The only other thing I'd note is reapers do better as a unit of 20. Because rasps have a smaller base size, in 10 you get just as many attacks for cheaper.

The match up I'm most concerned with is Kragnos and an incarnate combo. It seems to counter a lot of what Nighthaunt do. They get to be the ones charging since they roll 3d6 a lot of the time and then we can't retreat... Incarnate in particular is a worry to me because we can't kill it in one turn and must grind it down without any WoT to help us. If anyone has a battle report about their experiences and how they countered it, it would be good to know what strategy they implemented

I think Scriptor with tome makes him a lot better but I think the other point you were getting at is that we could also put the times on a combat hero. For base ability for the Scriptor is just too swingy in my opinion. Sometimes you'll get an early advantage out of him and it'll be great, other times he'll be a waste of resources. I kinda think he has the same problem as the artifact that brings back a unit on a 4+. It's a gamble where you invest resources on the chance that you get more bang for buck than you put in with the risk that you might also waste them. Problem with both is the pay off doesn't justify the risk. If Scriptor didn't become a wizard I'd like him to be able to write a name everyturn and roll for each name in his book each turn. Then he'd have this snowballing potential and the gamble would be if your opponent can take him out soon enough.

Is there any clarification on how one is turned into a nighthaunt. I've seen read that it's all dead now, or that it's those who were sinners from their prospective religions and didn't make it into their heavens, or that it's all the afterlife mini-realms who pulled into the central oblivion at the core of Shyish. I only have the actual rules right now, I'll buy the book soon. Some clarification would help me with my own head cannon and army narrative though. @EnixLHQ

I'd agree this army isn't about durability. It's about aggression. Haunt are not as agreessive and fragile as Daughters of Khaine but it's an army that relies on damage output and battleshock. Our characters can be surprisingly durable though. Spirit host give them a bunch of resilience. Lord executioners hand out -1 to wound and Krulghast reduce damage. These characters can also support units. Overlapping buffs and synergy start to really add up. If this were magic the gathering I'd say this army is a black and white deck. It's techy damage with debuffs and lots of healing and techy defense.

Black Coach. Such a dynamic and characterful model.

It does seem goofy. I guess if you need to justify it in your mind thematically, being on horseback puts you further back and they're flying over the units so if their weapons are the same length as grimghast the loose an inch due to having to reach further to get passed their own horses?

I think for a hero hammer blog the executioner is going to be really good as a cheaper character who can brawl and debuff. Reikenor is also surprisingly good in my experience as a wizard who can get up in the thick of it The GoS and Krulghast sit in an odd space as they're amazing force multipliers but not great as front line beaters. Position to keep them in range but also safe will be the trick. Same goes with spirit host who don't really offer anything in punch, you just want them soaking up wounds, so having them in combat may not be ideal but if they don't also charge you'll probably be out of range. In terms of role I'd say it's a weird kind of bully/distraction/utility/assassin piece. Which yeah, makes it unfocused and that historical means not great. If I was using one I'd aim to kill of small weak units if they have them in the early game (bully), maybe grab an extra VP from an objective or pop up somewhere annoying or near something that's about to be murdered by another unit (utility/distraction), then is the mid to late game you can use it to assassinate a support character or a weakened monster. It's something that'll never win it's points back if you have one job in mind for it. That said, to do that, the game needs to play out the right way. You need small stuff to bully early on, and they need an exposed character you can drop down next to assassinate late game etc. I reckon someone who loves the model and keeps playing games with it will probably end up being able to justify it and because it's a great model I suspect someone will. Just like you hear AoS coach interview someone who won a tournament with an off meta list because they learned that list inside out every now and then.

I don't think the coach is as bad as they suggested. It's a mixed bag of stuff so it's points cost seems a little steep for any of them in a vacuum. It's damage potential seems a little below it's cost. Same with it's mobility and it's durability. However put it all together and you have a teleporting threat at can nab extra command points, pick off stuff that's not too big and if you get the buff up your opponent has to screen out their characters or suddenly it can drop down and whack them with 3d3 mortals. It's a utility piece that kinda just does its own thing. They were correct in pointing out that against some armies like SoB the utility it offers won't be that helpful.

Very thankful the sites back. I've been thinking about how one would optimize the crossboos. I don't think there's a way to make them genuinely competitive but as a thought exercise, if someone wanted to build around them what would be the best option? The best I can think of is take grieving legion and double reinforce two units and then take a GoS with the auto cast item and palisade and a dreadblade. In a one drop list. Take first turn and drop the crossbows as a screen with the GoS buffing them. Dreadblade also then teleports up. From here you have the option of either 60 shots on 3s and 3, or give both units a 5+ ward depending on whether it's strategically better to murder something or ensure you survive. You can drop the palisade and it doesn't bother your shooting. The real benefit of the palisade isn't stopping you from getting shot back but really hampering movement and getting models into base contact. Fro there you can rally both units on a 5+ or keep the ward or buff your shooting as needed. Anything that charges will get bogged down for awhile and if they try to ignore you, 60 shots on 3/3 isn't terrible. That's the best way I can think of taking them.. it's not great, stuff like dragons can fly straight over or easily kill the support etc Does anyone have any ideas about how'd they'd maximize this unit?

Yep that's the trade off. Guaranteed 3VP would be too good, like taking prized sorcerery with LRL. This is all but guaranteed but is more like a guaranteed D3 VP. Which I personally feel puts it in the realm of really good but not brokenly powerful.

I was about to post 18.1.2. Seems fairly clear cut to me. If you're units are outside of 6, they are not contesting. Moving within 6 of the unit does nothing to the grand strat. If an enemy model moves within 6 of an object you control but not contest (nothing within 6), they contest and then win the objective. Thus, you do not control or contest that objective when you calculate the grand strat at the end of the 5th battle round. So it's guaranteed 3VP so long as you don't get caught out by a unit that prevents you from retreating.

Hmm, I don't they're 'contesting' an objective if there's nothing the opponent has there, they're controlling it. Thus, the opponent must be within 6 of your unit and the objective they control to contest it. Within 6 on just your unit and they control not contest the objective, just within 6 of the objective and they own it without any contestation. I could be wrong but I believe contesting requires two opposing units both within 6 of the objective

@EnixLHQ I'd suggest changing your grand strat. 3 units of bladegeist that are being used as your main hammer and a single chain ghast unit isn't all the durable. I suppose you could keep the chain ghast off the board for a few turns though. You don't have a heap of wizards so prized sorcerery probably wouldn't be that helpful either but have you considered Fright or Flight. You get 3 VP if none of your objectives are contested at the end of the game. Your list doesn't look list the sort of thing that sits on objectives to hold them. Thus, you're freed up to play agro, which I think is what your list wants to do. Just make sure on turn 5 you don't enter a combat on an object you can't clear and if you're on an objective, move off it if there's anything that can contest. It's a lot more reliable way secure the grand strat with the draw back that sometimes you'll hand the oppont one VP by abandoning an objective. Still, I think the reliability of it is better. Your more likely to come ahead on VP with this than loosing all 3 because the battle line got killed while also allowing you to use the battle line without having to worry about them dying.

@dmorley21 I would have thought it was the other way around. We easily get -1 to hit but only on our turn from WoT. Lord executioners, the artifact, and the spell work in the opponents turn with -1 to wound.

So our most common buff in the book is actually -1 to wound? That's interesting given how fragile this army is to getting double turned. So maybe the designers want a army that plays hyper aggressive with most of the list tech actually geared towards being evasive while doing so. An overlapping field of -1 wound and 5+ wards would certainly go a long way to solving how much this armies special rules only benefit us in our own turn.

@That Guy I just tried out a list with 4 dreadblades and even though I lost my general early oh boy are they good. I deep struck Reikenor then teleported 4 of them up on one flank. My general issued charge reroll on himself on the other flank then one harrow handed it to Reikenor and the others used it on themselves. Caught the other player off guard and punched a hole in a flank he thought was safe. Four is overkill but spamming CP is so good. It's not just how effective the extra CP is either, repeating a command breaks core rules in a very powerful way. I think a unit that's flying under the radar currently might be the executioner. He's got an okay profile and more importantly, he gives out -1 to wound at the start of the combat phase. Outside our own GoS +1 to wound is a lot harder to find then +1 to hit, it's a great defense tool, especially since it work in every combat phase. Buddy him with another combat character and some spirit host and you'll probably get a lot of milage.

The other list I think could be fun is some form of hero synergy mega party that gets followed by spirit host 4 combat heros; executioners to hand out -1 to wound at the start of every combat and be cheap brawlers. Maybe Kurdos to maximize beat down or Olynder to res spirit host. Then a GoS to heal the spirit host and hand out +1 to our heros and a krulegjast for -1 damage bubble. Probably throw a terminexus for more healing/damage as needed. The struggle would be having enough other stuff to grab objectives but it would be an insanely durable threat that would bring some crazy hurt.

I played a game over the weekend. 2k vs LRL. Game ended in a draw. I took a really experimental build, with 4 dreadblades and a Kos for 5 free redeploys. List also had Reikenor and the rest was some chainrasp and spirit hosts and 7 units of banshees. I miss positioned the KoS so he was isolated from the spirit hosts and he died turn 2. Sentinels were a headache but being able to really shut down my opponents magic blunted them a bit. By the end of the game I had lost everything but was well head of points so my opponents last turn brought it back to a draw. The army was really fragile and loosing the redeploy meant I was loosing units quicker than I wanted to. He had a cathalar that prevented backshock on a 2+ as well which really stuff up the plan. It felt like both armies really countered what the other wanted to. Anyway my final thoughts are that myrmourn banshees are amazing, especially against magic heavy lists. That aside though, they're very easy to multicharge in and if you cast soul cage first you can just convert the 10+ rolls to extra rend. They delete stuff. However, if you don't delete it, they die horrifically fast. In the future I think they're probably better as a counter charge unit that protects your main line rather than going with 7 of them but I'll try a few more games. Dreadblades also perform really well. The teleport means they're always where you need them and like myrmourn they're great for stacking extra WoT. Most of my combats I was naturally getting 'strike last' on my opponent. I think if I hadn't messed up position of my KoS and kept him alive a turn longer or so I'd have won the game. Edit: I forgot to mention. The grand strat was fright or flight and I've found it's basically guaranteed. All you have to do is move any models that could get challenged away from their objective. Thus it's impossible to have any contested. You possibly give up an objective but I think outside of a hoard of chainrasp we don't hold objectives anyway. So long as you move off the objectives last turn it's guaranteed.

I have a game coming up tomorrow where I'll be testing an MSU list with a KoS and 4 Dreadblades for 5 redeploys a turn... I'll let you all know how it goes. Hopefully, the list will hit like a ghost train on my turn and disappear on theirs while pray to the dice gods that I don't get double turned.

I think DOOM wants to go for one maybe two reinforced units that become the core of your list and you build everything around supporting it. MSU bladegeist spreads the mortal wounds out and you run the risk that they die too quickly on your opponents turn. By making a block of 30 minus 1 to wound with a 5+ save and bringing back as many as you can you can throw it around and theaten just about anything. Technically charging 3 units of 10 does just as many mortal wounds and they can split off to act independently but it's also a lot harder to keep them all at full strength so I think the output of MSU wi drop off way quicker.