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Dankboss

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    Best shooting unit in the game

    in Age of Sigmar Discussions

    Posted

    There's different areas to consider, such as best damage per point, general effectiveness etc.

    I'll throw in Freeguild Handgunners as a contender for their general utility and low cost. While they're not a heavy hitter compared to other top shooters, their ability to screen and shoot incoming charging units to mitigate enemy damage is very useful. They are in a unique spot, being able to screen while creating area denial from their threat, and being a pain to charge against. This combined with being Battleline makes for a compelling choice, at least in the top 5.

    • Like 1

    The Rumour Thread

    in Age of Sigmar Discussions

    Posted

    I would actually like to see the realm artifacts be replaced; one of their main purposes has passed, now all armies have their 2.0 battletome, that purpose being to help bridge the gap between old armies and new, much like the generic command abilities, which might be getting removed too (Quote: Vince Venturella iirc).

    I feel like the realm artifacts too often were better choices than some tomes' own, and things like Ethereal Amulet on any monster with a 3+ save just seems like a bad play experience if you didn't have the MW output to deal with it.

    • Like 6

    Help Picking a Faction?

    in New Member Welcome

    Posted

    10 hours ago, Kindred Fear said:

    Thanks @Oak7603!

    That makes me feel a bit better about just going with a choice and not worrying overly much about whether I'll regret it!

    I'm glad to be here and be starting up the hobby again.

    -KindredFear

    Age of Sigmar has a better internal balance than say 40k imo, and for the most part, armies are in reach of each other unless you're facing a skew list of the top ultra competitive units, such as certain Tzeentch builds atm (although it's battletome is in its raw, un-altered state pre-general's handbook). Unless you're going for a wacky fun army of Snotling Pumpwagons, you ought to do just fine no matter what you choose, in a friendly to semi-competitive environment. And even then, the AoS competitive scene still sees Troggherds finding a little success and other armies most would overlook. AoS has a lot of innovation, so you can certainly develop the next effective build yourself.

    I always aim for semi-competitive, an army that won't be a pushover but also fun for both sides.

    • Like 1

    Help Picking a Faction?

    in New Member Welcome

    Posted

    13 minutes ago, Kindred Fear said:

    Hello, all. I've been interested in getting back in Age of Sigmar. I played a few games when it first launched and enjoyed it, but overall didn't have much time for gaming. I have more free time and more income now and would like to hop back into the game. However, I'm a bit overwhelmed with army choices. I'd greatly appreciate it if you all could point me in the direction of a particular playstyle. I'm looking for a faction that:

    -Is melee focused
    -Has a way to engage the enemy (speed, deep strike, etc.)
    -Hits hard
    -Doesn't crumble when attacked back

    As examples I enjoy playing my Bloody Rose Adepta Sororitas in 40k, a warrior in World of Warcraft (any spec), champions like Vi or Xin in League, etc.

    I've been looking through 1d4chan (and still am), but I could really use the assistance outside of that site. I assume multiple armies can pull this playstyle off, but thank you all for reading and helping me narrow down my choices.

    -KindredFear

    My brother has been using an all mounted Slaves to Darkness army against me and it's pretty decent, and is reasonably survivable.

    Most armies are melee orientated and have at least a few ways of closing the distance. I would avoid Kharadron Overlords, Tzeentch, Slaanesh and maybe Skaven, as they tend to be shooting/ magic orientated, or otherwise lack durability. Seraphon are borderline a shooting/magic army, but are tough enough and fast enough to play melee too.  Other than those (which could still work for you) there's a massive range of armies that can fulfill the requirements you're looking for, in one way or another.

    To narrow it down farther, it depends on how you want to engage the enemy; either through movement, teleporting or reserves.
    Ironjaws are a good example of an army that reaches their target primarily through movement; the same with Ogre Mawtribes, Blades of Khorne and Daughters of Khaine.

    Others like Stormcast, Beasts of Chaos and Sylvaneth use reserves and teleports to engage, while others like Nighthaunt and Cities of Sigmar are hybrids of different movement options. Most armies will have a viable delivery method.

    • Like 2

    Aos 2 - Lumineth Realm-Lords Discussion

    in Lumineth Realm-Lords

    Posted

    1 minute ago, zilberfrid said:

    Have you read the same Teclis warscroll? He's absolutely ridiculous.

    4 autospells at cv10, 1 autodispell in addition, 1 autounbind, +1 cast/dispell, unbind, 4+ unaffected by endless spells or enemy spell and deal d3 mw to enemy in what starts at 16", spells+ 5+ ward save in 18", d3 mw for every enemy unit in 18" on 2-4, d6 on 5-6.

    Not to mention making the enemy pay more CP, all units dispelling, mortal wound output (5-6 to hit for spears, archers and cav gives mw with the spell) and staying power.

    Moving battleshock to enemies is also unfun.

    So if you use CP, magic or are affected by mortal wounds, you're not going to have a good time.

    Khorne or Fyreslayers seem about the only bets.

    Yes, he's extremely powerful, but I don't think it's egregious from a balance standpoint. He hasn't even been played yet; on paper he looks incredible, but I'm not passing a proper judgement at a first glance.

    • Thanks 1

    AoS 2 HammerHal

    in Cities of Sigmar

    Posted

    19 hours ago, Maturin said:

    Hey guys,

    Do you think that list is viable for a 1250 points tournament ? I wanted three things : a one drop army or two at max, a mage that could go along the cavalry to support them and a way to make every single dice counts, so max re rolls or +to hit.
    I think I got what I wanted. But is it strong enough in an alpha strike ? I would have liked to get the Cogs for +2 to charge distance but that would mean no re roll to hit for 1 with the Azyros bubble (Incantor + thermal rider cloak+cogs 220 points). The sisters can participate in the shooting phase too, and not being in danger melee.

    Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
    - City: Hammerhal
    Mortal Realm: Aqshy
    Freeguild General on Griffon (320)
    - General
    - Shield & Greathammer
    - Command Trait: Blood of the Twelve
    - Artefact: Ignax's Scales
    Knight-Azyros (100)
    - Artefact: The Twinstone
    - City Role: General's Adjutant
    3 x Demigryph Knights (180)
    - Cavalry Halberd
    3 x Demigryph Knights (180)
    - Cavalry Halberd
    3 x Demigryph Knights (180)
    - Lance and Sword
    5 x Sisters of the Thorn (130)
    - Lore of Cinder: Cindercloud
    Hammerhalian Lancers (140)

    Total: 1230 / 1250
    Extra Command Points: 1
    Allies: 0 / 200
    Wounds: 64

     

    I'm not a massive fan of the Azyros, given just how accurate Freeguild can be; I would take a battlemage of whatever flavor instead. You already have a potential source of reroll 1s to hit from your Griffon if you need it. You also don't have Wings of Fire which is important for hopping over endless spells. For his own spell, I'd likely go with Pha's Protection as with such a condensed list, you'll want as much protection for your units as possible, or alternatively a spell to help control the enemy, like Miasma or Transmutation, as one big smashy enemy monster will ruin your day if it manages to tag more than one unit at a time.

    I know you're trying to go for peak efficiency, but your units will be doing more damage if they're alive. In my experience, Demigryphs that hit on 2s really don't need to reroll 1s as well except in the most critical of circumstances, and you'll still be able to do that if you need to via All out Attack. Thanks to the battalion ability, you won't need to be spending CPs on Rousing Battlecry that often.

    Can 3/ 4 Troggoth Hags be semi-competitive? - Gloomspite Gitz Army List

    in Destruction

    Posted

    I really wouldn't suggest more than 1 Hag. She's a B+ grade unit, but is best used as a support and pinning unit/ skirmisher. She's in the same weight class as many big monsters, but they tend to be extremely smashy in combat; she's in quite a unique position for her class, that being a powerful backline that can transition into a frontline fighter as the game progresses, much like the Troggboss. Troggoths are great at crippling the enemy, and then fighting a war of attrition when their enemy is weak, as they're not outwardly tanky but persistent, and the Hag compliments them well. Troggoths are durable enough, but they can't survive proper concentration, however considering that all troggoths are an inherent threat, they survive by saturating their power across all units, as opposed to say the aforementioned big smashy monster that many armies have.

    AoS 2 - Gloomspite Gitz Discussion

    in Destruction

    Posted

    22 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

    There are other factors, but that goes both ways, large unit footprints can be tough to get into combat, but are excellent for holding objectives, which is a big part of why the game favors hordes at the moment plus fellwaters and rockguts are on 50mm bases with a 2 inch reach. 50mm is just under 2 inches. The dankhold also dies 2 wounds earlier.

     

    What I'm trying to get at is I really don't think the dankholds can justify having a higher price tag than the other variants. I think they belong at the same cost, because when I weigh the pros and cons they seem pretty equal to me, except for the 50-60 point difference in favor of rockguts and fellwaters.

    The reason I say 170 for now is that GW don't tend to make such massive drops in one go; it'll take another year if it were to reach 150. Now, I would absolutely want them to be 150, but 170 is the best we can hope for this time around.

    At the end of the day, we're both right about their pros and cons. Although at 170, they wouldn't be a stab in the foot.

    AoS 2 - Gloomspite Gitz Discussion

    in Destruction

    Posted

    5 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

    In terms of troggoth hordes I'm just looking for ways to buff troggoth lists that won't break the unit for anything else.

    Now onto why dankholds need a significant point drop:

    Troggoth melee average damage comparison

    3 Fellwater:

    Vs 4+ 7.11 damage

    Vs 3+ 5.33 damage

    Vs 2+ 3.56 damage

    3 Rockgut

    Vs 4+ 6.67 damage

    Vs 3+ 5.33 damage

    Vs 2+ 4 damage

    1 Dankhold:

    Vs 4+ 3.89 damage

    Vs 3+ 3.11 damage

    Vs 2+ 2.33 damage

     

    Then you can factor in special abilities like the rock throw, grab, and vomit but unless you're grabbing models with 3+ wounds, it will only even out the damage disparity. This isn't even getting into the damage variance of these guys, 3 d6 damage attacks is horribly incinsistent.

    Dankholds are also not durable at all. They are currently 10 wounds with a 4+ save is the equivalent of 5 Ardboyz or 5 chaos warriors(which will actually put out similar damage as the troggoth club) even at 170 these guys are way too inefficient. Spell resistance is pointless on a unit that is little more than a speedbump.

    Rockguts (definitely) and fellwaters(arguably) are more durable than dankholds, while dealing similar to more damage and having way better wound efficiency. I can't see dankholds being remotely usable until they cost the same, or less than rockguts and fellwaters.

     

     

    There are factors that need to be considered like power per square inch and autonomy, which are both better with the Dankhold. I'm not saying that they're the superior choice, only that they have opportunities to work well in certain circumstances. 3 Dankholds take up much less space than 9 Rockguts and can more easily control blocks of infantry with their crushing grip and smaller pile in footprint; this also makes for less enemy models striking back. I also would not discount their 4+ magic immunity, as Endless spells used as speed-bumps are extremely prevalent.

    Dankholds would be a viable choice for tackling the likes of Chaos Warriors and other elite infantry, while I would choose Rockguts for most other things. Another thing that is easily overlooked is that you're comparing 3 of one troggoth to 1 of another; the Dankhold can fight at maximum capacity while 2 lesser trolls will be dead if the same damage is taken, this is a better comparison than if they were in a vacuum, because the vacuum doesn't take the rest of the game into account. An example is my last game, where my Rockguts were getting pounded by artillery and lost models, but eventually made it into combat: that unit lost effectiveness and it showed, however Dankholds can fight at maximum capacity for longer before they are slain. The Rockguts lost effectiveness as they lost wounds; Dankholds will not.

    There's lots of non-stat factors to consider when pricing units.

    • Like 1

    AoS 2 - Gloomspite Gitz Discussion

    in Destruction

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Nezzhil said:

    The faction rules are not the Warscrolls, we have a problem with the moon... Most of the Warscrolls are fine, and the Danks have a superb rules with an specific job that they do very well. 

    I agree; most of what makes Gitz a mid tier army at best is our allegiance abilities. Our warscrolls are actually really good, especially things like Rockguts and Bounders.

    @Ganigumo

    Even if Rockguts and Fellwaters got a discount, the unit will be too big to wield effectively, and would be a battleshock magnet. The biggest unit I ever see is 9, while I run multiples of 6.

    Dankholds won't go below 170 due to things like magic resist being a premium ability (which in this meta I value highly). Now if they were between 170-180 I would take a unit of 3 in a Grot based force (not a Trogg based force like I play) as they'd make excellent line breakers due to their massive footprint to power ratio, and the ability to pull 3 models out of an infantry unit; ogres/stormcast would wet themselves if they get split. The cheapness of the Grots would offset the more premium price of the Dankholds, which is why I wouldn't take it in a Trogg list. Not to mention if you get the Dankholds fighting in cover they can be a real pain to fight. Also, being Bravery 6+1 they can be left on their own provided the enemy doesn't have any penalties to bravery. In the proposed list, they don't need a Dankboss around since All out Attack will do the same thing.

    AoS 2 - Gloomspite Gitz Discussion

    in Destruction

    Posted

    14 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

    What is everyones predictions for points changes?

    Probably not much in terms of large changes.

    Madcap Shaman: 80-70

    Loonboss on Mangler Squigs: 280-270

    Mangler Squigs: 240-220

    Dankhold Troggoth: 200-180 or maybe a discount (at this cost a unit of 3 looks like it has some potential,  ideally 170 each)

    Fellwater Troggoths: maybe 150-140 to be in line with the more popular and competitive choice, being Rockguts.

    Loonsmasha fanatics: 140-130, maybe 120. I know they have some unique utility but they're expensive for a suicide unit.

    Spider Riders: 100-90/ whatever discount they would get

    Sporesplattas: 120-100

    Squig Hoppers 90-80

    All Arachnaroks down 10 minimum

    Squig Herd: introduce a small max unit discount

    Mork's Mighty Mushroom: 90-80 maybe 70. When it was first released it looked terrifying but later releases make it look tame by comparison.

    Troggherd: 180-160 minimum, 140 preferable but doubtful

    Gobbapalooza: 110-90

    Can't speak for the Gargant as he may not exist in his current form for much longer.

    I know many people would want the Troggboss down again but from extensive playing he's good at 270 given the cost of everything else. He's just mistaken for another greater daemon ballistic missile which he's not. He's a super heavy infantry hero.

     

     

     

     

     

    • Like 1
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