[TOW 1.0 - The Empire]

On 3/13/2024 at 4:14 PM, Vakarian said:

Hello, fellow Landsknecht aficionados! With thanks to the mod team here for opening up an Old World sub forum, let’s start tossing around some ideas for Empire lists and tactics. Has anyone been able to play a game yet? Just theorycrafting still? 
 

Me, I’m just excited to put a Grand Master on a Demigryph and see what he can do along with his buddies on demis. It seems like Empire cavalry could be quite good and fun to use in Old World. 
 

I’m still thinking through how to use state troops, but spears and shields on the main block with halberdier detachments (and maybe some classic archer screens) seem solid. Captains might be a must to keep Panic at bay. 
 

How are you planning to play the grandest army in the Old World?

[Warhammer - The Old World]

22 minutes ago, Wnerva said:

got it boys!

 

IMHO, and unfortunately, this does not clarify the issue. The sentence is about suffering wounds, but the FAQ is about wounds that were saved anyway (so, not suffered).

[The Rumour Thread]

19 minutes ago, TrawlingCleaner said:

I'm sure they'll make it clearer soon but I do wonder how they'll make the Darkoath supplement work as it is they have:

Warqueen

Cheiftain/WH event exclusive Split-eye

Theddra Underworlds team

Gnarlspirit Underworlds team

Darkoath Savagers

New:

WH+ unit

Chieftan on mount

Horsemen

Mauraders

Wilderbeast

 

That doesn't really seem like much to me? Like outside of the Wilderbeast, I can't see the army doing any heavy lifting.

I'm guessing they might allow a few specifically undivided StD units to join a Darkoath army, maybe something like:

Centurion Marshall

Ogroid Myrmidon

Ogroids

Fomoroid

Mindstealer Sphrinx

Furies and Raptoryx

Warshrine

 

The distinctly Undivided units that also aren't "Core" to the StD army?

 

Maybe it's me misinterpreting, but I don't think the "Darkoath supplement" will be a separate "army of renown", let alone a "battletome". Instead, I always imagined it would just be similar to the Ironjawz supplement, maybe with some additional stuff or modifying existing warscrolls but nothing more.

[Warhammer - The Old World]

8 hours ago, Milford said:

Thanks for the reply @Lord Krungharr. Could you expand on your suggested approach? That each of the four models should have a small flat magnetised base, then (i) (for AoS) all of these attach to the magnetised 90mm round, and (ii) (for TOW) each crew member attaches to a 25mm square and the cannon to a 75x50?

I did have this in mind, but it will be a pain trying to get the mini flat bases and the proper bases to look seamless together.

My suggestion would be to magnetise only the cannon (much easier to hide the magnet). Crew members are essentially optional in TOW so you can glue them on the AoS base and in case kitbash two more to glue on the TOW one

[AoS Cities of Sigmar Battletome 2023 Discussion]

13 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Yeah, completely forgot about the doggo

I think you were right the first time, the dog is not an actual model (as in, with a wound count), he's clearly indicated as a companion (core rules 22.3.1)

[Warhammer - The Old World]

Finally manged to get another game last night (at the low cost of only sleeping 5 hours), 1500pts of my Winter Court Wood Elves vs my mate's Ogors in the Watchtower. We were using 2d terrain as we were at my mate's place.

Another very enjoyable game, going longer than the previous ones (barely below 3 hours) due to it being very balanced until the end. Main thing I learned: I have to hide my Treeman when a cannon is around other than that, 4 Tree Kins were a proper anvil and I was happy to have tweaked my list to give my opponent a more "engaging" experience as opposed to the "pure" Wood Elves guerrilla. On the other hand, my lvl 4 skirmishing wizard was devastating and frustrating: my opponent had no magic and I blocked him from charging 3 or 4 times by summoning a forest in front of his Ironguts+Tyrant+BSB block. In the end I won by 400 points (of which, 200 due to the Watchtower).

Here's some bad pictures of the game (terrible lighting)

Spoiler

 

 aaand the minis I added to my army in the meantime: the best part of the game, in fact, was that for the first time I was able to field a fully painted army 🥳

Spoiler

Some kitbashed crazy deer boys

 

5 Deepwood Scouts (from Kings of War Norther Alliance)

 

a kitbashed Spellweaver/Spellsinger on Elven Steed

 

and 4 recycled "Tree" kins (formerly Free Folk Giants from ASOIAF, fitting perfectly on 50mm and size-wise)

 

 

 

 

[The Rumour Thread]

10 minutes ago, Glutos said:

This looks pretty good ib my eyes, only one faction in the red!

and the weirdest thing about this is that, just when the game is at its most balanced*, we're just about to hit the big RESET button

*according to the targets set by GW itself

[The Rumour Thread]

53 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

and while some models are slightly bigger them tow equivalent, it still works astonishing well 

also, what's the "baseline" size of TOW? For instance, I am a new player with no pre-existing collection. What's the baseline Wood Elf size since I literally cannot buy an official one?

as an aside, I am also generally not too bothered by different sizes as long as the difference is not huge: in my little personal experience of moving around Europe, my best friend from uni is 1.55m and the guy who stole my spot on the volleyball team was 2.06m (lanky ****** ) and they are both human, I think.

[The Rumour Thread]

4 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

chaos warrior.

a faction that has gotten a full updated range in the last 2-3 years and is just getting its next update for their marauders

I have zero ideas or guesses as to the relationship between AoS and TOW, but the fact that chaos warriors have an update range, now including marauders, allows TOW to differentiate them by claiming the old ranges

[Warhammer - The Old World]

16 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

 

and I don't have children. Kudos to everyone managing to stay in this hobby while having children

I've got a daughter (2.5 years old) and it's different but doable

taking your comment for way too serious a reflection on our hobby and having children: in the context of having a little one in the house, I am actually incredibly happy of having switched from my previous hobby (videogames) to playing and painting minis. a) we have a "0 screens as long as we can hold" policy, so it's actually easier to engage with my hobby than it would have been if I had stuck with vidogames; b) it's a creative hobby that I can actually share with my daughter already (I have bought and primed some big plastic dinosaurs for her and she's joining me at the painting table quite often these days); c) working in a office job, I've never been a great craftsman, but the stuff I learned through the hobby has made me comfortable in designing and realising a small cardboard spaceship for our little astronaut last carnival

end of the parent section, lol

[The Rumour Thread]

17 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said:

Stormcast feel like they're going to get another Spearhead that doesn't include a named character,

maybe the SCE spearhead (as in, the format equivalent of Combat Patrol) is the content of that box minus Yndrasta

[Warhammer - The Old World]

24 minutes ago, GhostShark said:

Similarly, "not for the foreseeable future" only means that they won't confirm that these armies are coming until they officially announce them. GW doesn't discuss what armies they're releasing in the future.

Seems that they violated such a rule by saying that Cathay was coming to The Old World then. And, exactly because of this deliberate choice of secrecy/obfuscation I feel people would have been justified in thinking: well, they are saying that these 9 factions are coming to the Old World initially, but they also stated explicitly that Cathay is coming, so it's just that they will announce it later (as you say, when they officially announce them). Now, they are (again) discussing unreleased armies, stating that they are not coming "for the foreseeable future".

To me, an honest interpretation of what "not for the foreseeable future" means is just that we have no idea. It could mean that they will be announced in a couple of months, or that they will never come.

[Warhammer - The Old World]

7 minutes ago, Beliman said:

Wow, didn't remember that, thanks for the answer. Knowing this part, I would say that at least Cathay was part of the project's long term pipeline but at some point, it that was pushed back. Sad outcome

Yes, this is also my conclusion.

To clarify: I agree with all the takes that stress how everybody should keep their expectations low. On the other hand, I think that a company should be criticised for this kind of communication -plans can change, especially on such a long-term project, but it was their choice to communicate so early and in this way, so the lack of clarification before the release of the product makes the whole thing feel a lot like a bait and switch.

[Warhammer - The Old World]

32 minutes ago, Beliman said:

Yes, both armies were presented in TOW articles, but just as lore blurb (hey look, ice witches weapons are made of ice, and they have bears) or some form to build hype for Total Warhammer 3, or just to show the collaboration going on between both companies.

I'd have to dig out the precise articles to give you links but no, it was a bit more specific than that

EDIT: there you go https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/02/18/grand-cathay-is-mapped-for-the-first-time-in-warhammer-the-old-world/

[Why that army?]

5 minutes ago, Big Kim Woof-Woof said:

A question that always fascinates me.... why did you choose your army (or armies)? In the flesh, I often ask my fellow generals this, and often the answers are rather intriguing. 

Was it the background? The models? The way they play? Because they're more likely win you a game? Or.... ? 

Please do indulge me. 

I choose Stormcast because (I try to put them in order of their importance for my choice):

1) I was told they were the "posterboys" so they were safe from any "squatting" and their rules, while not necessarily "good", would aways be current*

2) I read the lore and liked it more than other factions -in short, their tragic hero vibe

3) I read that they had a large roster and you could keep exploring different playstyles while only collecting one army**

4) I saw I could pick up decently sized collections for relatively cheap on the 2nd hand market

*in hindisight, I hadn't conidered how this could also be a curse, sometimes feeling the hobby-fatigue of having to buy and paint new models to stay "current"
**looking at my 20k points, I had underestimated what "only collecting one army" would entail

[Warhammer - The Old World]

Thanks to a lucky star alignment, I got to play another game on Saturday night. 1500pts of my Winter Court (Wood Elves) vs my clubmate's freshly printed bretonnians. We played on an AoS-sized table and it was another very good experience: we played 5 rounds of what I felt was a relatively balanced game (even though the points at the end tilted in my favour, with a victory 1000-300 before counting the Watchtower) in less than 2 hours. More thoughts on the game and a couple of pictures in the spoilers.

I'm still kind of amazed of how the game plays smoothly, considering that yes, we were both experienced wargamers, but none of us had ever played WHFB/T9A before. Sure enough, we had our laptops out to search the core rulebook but still. We discussed this afterwards, and we shared the feeling that a) in the end, while movement rules are more restrictive, you're moving less "stuff" around and b) when it's your turn you just get to play.

1500points is more or less where I wanted to stop before, but now I am tempted to try 2k...

Now coming to the game itself

Spoiler

We were playing the watchtower. I knew my opponent would give me first turn because he wanted to pray, so I deployed quite aggressively with all the bows in range. I killed a couple of knights and placed an eagle on the left flank to lure the pegasus knights away from the centre

The opponent sent everything forward, killed the eagle with the pegasi, but that was it. I shot some more knights, charged the pegasi with the glade riders on the left (bad idea ) and used the eagle on the right to redirect the knights of the realm and set up the charge of my wild riders. I also moved the small unit of wardancers (the one without Shadowdancer) to screen the rangers on the left from the knight of the realms. My shooting finished the graal knights (sad trombone)

In my opponent t2 the pegasi killed the glade riders on the left, the knights of the realm (with prophetess lvl 4) killed the eagle on the right, and the knights of the realm on the left slammed into the wardancers, only killed one (-1 to hit dance ftw) but I rolled a 12 on morale and they ran away 🙄 still, they ended up out of position to chase them down, with my archers on the flank (who were also hidden from the pegasi by a forest).

In my t3 my wild riders charged the knights of the realm on the right, but couldn't do much against a 3+/5+/5+. Still they killed some and gave ground -not great considering how much charging is impactufyl and they also lost frenzy. At this point I wasn't feeling too great. Still, I shot some infantry who used some special ability not to flee, and that was it.

My opponent brought down his general (a duke on hyppogryph) on my scouts in the centre, obliterating them and leaving the table. The pegasi came to the centre. The knights of the realm had a surprisingly bad round of combat vs the non-charging non-frenzied wild riders so that fight was a draw.

In my t4 I brought the glade riders on the left into the knights of the realm to help the wild riders and finished them (and the prophetess). My 6 wardances + shadowdancer charged the knights of the realm on the left together with my general, killing them all. I also finished killing the infantry in the centre. In my opponent's t4, he charged his general into my Glade Lady general, but she was kitted for that (-2 to hit in challenges) so they ended up trading blows for 3 combat phases. The pegasus knights charged the wardancer + shadowdancer, won the combat by 1, and I rolled another 12 for morale (😆). In my t5 they rallied and just put themselves between the pegasi and my general, I started moving my remaining cavalry on the right to go hunt the archers. In his t5 my opponent considered his options, decided against charging the pegasi into the wardancers, rolled another round of combat against my general, didn't do a single wound and we stopped there.

 

 

 

 

 

And here's the new stuff I added to the Winter Court in the meantime

Spoiler

A grumpy Treeman (what a struggle to fit it on 50x75mm )

A couple more archers recycled from ASOIAF (can't have too many archers)

and finally my favourite, a Glade Lady on Great Stag (or at least, that's what the dwarf who sold her the mount said it is!)

 

 

 

[The Rumour Thread]

37 minutes ago, Deakz28 said:

Probably for the best

probably, still the magnitude of changes that the Fusiliers got in the very short time span of the BT life is pretty staggering, the kind of stuff which justifies arguments about "pump and dump" tactics to sell models (which I generally find unconvincing)

[The Rumour Thread]

2 hours ago, Goatforce said:

I think this edition the tomes started fairly good

It is of course entirely a matter of preference but the blandness of the SCE battletome (my only faction) is one of the reasons why I didn't enjoy v3 very much. I see the talk about indexes and think "well I have played with an index already for 3 years" (or, as I call it, a stack of warscrolls): a single (real) allegiance ability and subfactions so shallow they only really matter for which battleline option/named character they open up.

End of the sad rant.

[Warhammer - The Old World]

2 hours ago, Ejecutor said:

In my case, it is the aesthetic of the scenery that was released with the 3rd edition. The buildings were funded by the Dawnbringers crusades. Ofc, there are plenty of buildings out there, but for me, it is the little details that point out to the Mortal Realms the ones that make them worth it.

I don't know about Dawnbringers specific, but there's quite a lot of stuff with clear references to AoS aesthetics, like this Skyport

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tiredworldstudio/zilvren-skyhold/description

or several of the sets from Dark Fantastic Mills

https://darkfantasticmills.com/

[AoS Cities of Sigmar Battletome 2023 Discussion]

1 hour ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

Also, it’s 550 pts in a box, not bad at all. Combat Patrols can only dream of such value…

At release (haven't followed changes in points) Combat patrols had an average value around 500pts so not that different. Good summary here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/14bdynj/ive_done_the_maths_for_10th_ed_points_costs_for/

 

[Warhammer - The Old World]

54 minutes ago, Ogregut said:

Did you take special arrows on all your units? Been playing with some army lists and trying to figure what goes best with what. 

Been thinking the - 2ap on glade guard, no penalty to move and shoot on glade riders and poisoned on waywatchers or maybe the multiple shot ones on them. 

Thoughts? 

my algorithm is very simple: poison on everybody, multiple shots on characters, -2 ap on characers with the bow of loren (if any). That being said, I can absolutely see the argument for trueflight for glade riders and multiple shots on waywatchers, but my experience is strongly impacted by my only two real games so far having been vs t4 armies

and yes, special arrows on everybody

[Warhammer - The Old World]

 

 

I got to play another game with my Winterheart Wood Elves. 1000 points again vs a clubmate's Ogres (again on a 48x48" table). We had to use 2d terrain as we were playing at his place on Friday evening (the dads' hour). We got to learn some more rules and I experimented on purpose with blocking/redirecting charges with the eagles with a 50% success rate Poisoned arrows and a surprisingly good performance from the Shadowdancer (lucky killing blows really hurt against such expensive models) carried my Wood Elves to the victory.

My opponent had basically two units (Bulls+Wizard and Ironguts+Tyrant) and a lot of points in chracters (almost 50%). My main concern, of course based on an extremely limited experience, is that the Wood Elves playstyle might not be the most engaging for my opponents. I'll see if the feeling is confirmed when we climb to 1500/2000pts and in case I'll just run more melee (and die)

Took a couple of pictures but the lighting was very bad:

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

[The Rumour Thread]

3 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Overall, I kind of feel like even though we were in Ghur for the whole edition, I didn't really see much of the realm at all and it didn't really matter very much that we were there.

it didn't help that rules-wise there was also little attention to make it about "the Era of the Beast", other than the first GHB. Battlelines being imporant dead and Veterans hunting them, small foot characters become tactically unavoidable, and magic getting more powerful do not exactly evoke "Beasts" or even particularly Ghurish characteristics

[The Rumour Thread]

6 minutes ago, Baron Klatz said:

We barely got to explore much of Ghur at all and an even more interesting campaign happened over in Lendu through the Flash Point white dwarfs which a lot of people missed.

Yes I feel a big part of the problem is also the delivery channels. I think a) WH+ was a bad idea, putting stuff behind a paywall instead of making it freely available/accept to give money to bigger platforms to reach a wider audience; b) more bite-size pieces of lore should be developed through Warhammer Community, like an interactive map for the area explored by each new GHB, with references to stuff you can buy if you want to read more

[The Rumour Thread]

3 minutes ago, Grungnisson said:

That's precisely the point. Togetak suggested that staying in one realm for the duration of the whole edition makes the game boring, and I'm not sure that's a valid argument, since the entirety of WHFB took place on a map much smaller and yet remained engaging.

fair. I think staying in one realm ends up being boring for some because of how they are built, that is as a series of attributes/keywords more than as "places". So, staying in the same one is not like staying in the WHFB world, but rather like staying in a single region of that universe (like: an entire edition in the desert of Khemri).