novembermike

Yeah, that's very reasonable. I think the Vulkite vs HGB question is basically about whether you can defend the Runesmiter, which will mostly be matchup dependent. That's also a reasonable point about needing bodies. In a pinch the Thunderers can take and hold a backline objective from the gunhauler, which is probably enough.

This looks pretty good. I'm a little mixed on HGB vs Vulkite Berserkers since you'd only be taking a single relatively squishy Fyreslayers Hero but the core idea seems good. I think you'd kind of want a single Frigate to help sneak an Arkanaut squad onto an objective, but nothing looks wrong here.

Why would it be just one? You attack with each weapon separately so you're only ever attacking with a single weapon at a time, but you'll eventually attack with every weapon.

Killing 5 of them means 10 wounds without rend on average. That's what you'd expect out of a 300 point Liberator unit. If somebody's throwing 300 points at 90 points of your army then I'd hope that it does a bit of damage. The kind of units that will run through an arkanaut squad are either expensive and can't afford the distraction or are glass cannons that will die on the crack back. Do you have a realistic game scenario where the arkanaut squad dies for nothing?

Yep. People complain about this but it's a hallmark of good game design. If you want something powerful, you must give up something else. If you want to run you can't shoot or charge. If you want to get into melee the other guy gets to fight back as well. if you have choices that are 100% then that's a bad thing.

Yep. Archaeon's an example but there's a lot of other armies that either have teleport or rapid movement shenanigans, and ironclads only have 12" range on their shorter ranged guns. Proper zoning can give you mathematical certainty that you are safe for a turn.

Why would you fly high across the board if you're screened? There will be cases where that's a good idea but if the enemy can teleport across the map or threaten you from anywhere you can shoot then teleporting randomly seems like a bad idea.

...Do you know what screening is? Archaeon's got a 160mm base. That's massive. If you can't zone out that base with a linear 250mm of Dorf muscle then you need to go back to geometry class. The same goes for teleporting models or other fast movers. At the very least you can minimize how many models can get in range of the model you actually want to defend.

They're a bunch of dwarf adventurers, they're there to brawl with the chaos warriors and die a horrible death to Archaeon. They fit the lore. The trick is that Archaeon is spending a whole turn murdering a 90 point unit which won't get his points back, and while he's doing that the rest of the army can shoot him. If they're not fighting Archaeon they'll do a good job of tarpitting and killing most smaller units. They've got range issues but they're better at killing chaff point for point than anything else in the army.

I still think people are missing the point of Arkanauts. They won't tank Archaeon or a big Petrifex blob, but neither will your Ironclad. They're still pound for pound tougher than anything else in the list and you can take them in small squads without losing anything so they'll do a good job as either a tarpit against less killy stuff or a speedbump and zoning tool against more dangerous enemies. If the enemy ignores them they're also surprisingly efficient, if they're on an objective then they're our best shooting unit against targets that are in range.

10 arkanauts will die in a blaze of mediocrity because they're 90 points. They're not going to stand up to Archaeon and if they did that would be unhealthy for the game. They should be more than capable of going toe to toe with enemies that are as expensive as them or more. I feel like competitive lists will start with at least 30-40 Arkanauts in them.

If you grab Aether War then you basically just need some foot guys (thunderers or arkanauts) for durability and maybe a frigate or or something. There's no real traps anymore so you can basically take whatever.

Thryng seems like the strongest. The extra grudges, fight after death and once per game exploding six's are all solid on their own and there are some solid Duardin to ally in.

Knight Incantors are another option for dealing with spells.

It feels interesting. I'd basically classify it like this. Mobility: A Durability: B Ranged Firepower: C (which can be a little misleading because KO would lose a pure ranged vs ranged battle against most dedicated ranged units, but KO can actually go 100% ranged because they don't tend to take penalties in melee range) Melee Power: D You need to use the mobility and durability but if you do then you can keep focused firepower going for multiple turns and use that to win a battle.

HGB are only tough with a hero nearby, and a runesmiter is relatively easy to snipe off. If we had a magmadroth or something with then that might make sense (and it might make sense) but I'd be wary of going too hard into fyreslayers since you don't have a lot of the fyreslayer synergies.

Which part is opinion? It seems like you're disagreeing with the math, which is math so either right or wrong. I didn't mention 120 points for the Smiter but I also didn't mention 750 points for the frigates you'd need to transport 30 arkanauts, I figured people could do the math there themselves.

I'm a little confused here, what do you think the point of the vulkites is? Despite what you're saying they are tougher than Arkanauts. It's 40 wounds for 280 points vs 30 wounds for 270, the Vulkites have fewer models so they're more resistant to battleshock and while 4+ vs 5+ evens out the wounds, Vulkites get a 4+ in melee most of the time and the extra wounds are superior vs rend. The Vulkites have more turn 1 mobility. Arkanaut really need a Frigate for mobility and then they can only be taken in 10 man squads. Vulkites can go in a big blob just deep strike with a Smiter. The Vulkites hit harder in melee. In an extended fight they can clear off an objective even against solid units. Arkanauts are good but they don't fill the same role of putting a hard hitting anvil down in the middle of enemy territory.

it double posted

To give an example: Barak-Thryng Leaders Endrinmaster on Balloon - 220 Runesmiter - 120 Runelord on Anvil - 140 Battle line 3x 10 arkanauts - 90 each 2x3 Endrinriggers, Sky Hook Other Gunhauler - 150 2 Frigates - 250 each Iron Sky Attack Squadron - 120 20 Vulkite berserkers - 240 The basic idea would be to deep strike the Berserkers unless it looks like a bad idea, try to get the runelord and one of the arkanaut squads on a relatively safe objetive, and then the 2 frigates, the arkanauts in them, the gunhauler and the balloon boys just ride around putting their firepower where it's needed.

How about Barak Thryng? There's a few Duardins that are probably worth a look. Runelord on Anvil - 2 denies at +2 is a little insane and he gets to spit out mortal wounds in 24" on a 2+ each turn. That's really solid for 140 points. Runelord - 1 deny at +2 but he also buffs up a dispossessed unit's rend. Irondrakes - pound for pound they're better shooting than anything KO have if they aren't getting harassed, and they're reasonably tough. They pair well with the runelord's rend. KO should have the firepower to blow away any harassing units before they fire so they can fire at full power. Gyrocopter/bomber - I'm not sure that they're better than the fliers that KO have but they're a lot cheaper so they can fit into oddly shaped holes in lists. Vulkite Berserker - With shields they're probably tougher than anything else we have access to and they're a solid melee unit which KO lack. Runesmiter - lets your berserkers deep strike. Not much else to it. Is there anything interesting that I'm missing?

The Ironclad can also burn gold and make the only real target much, much tougher.

I think this is true of the people that originally wrote it, but the team that's doing it now seems decent.

Yeah, special rules are nice but at some point you have to actually kill the enemy or take a hit. The dwarves themselves don't need to be that tough (and the models don't sell that they have a ton of armor or toughness) but the ships should be pretty damned tough pound for pound and have some damage.

That doesn't sound too unreasonable if the boats get a significant boost (more wounds, 3+ save on the ironclads, 4+ on the frigates, cannons hitting on 3+, etc). If the ships are 50% more expensive but better to compensate then that seems like a fair trade.