Maturin
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Posts posted by Maturin
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1 hour ago, VBS said:
I don't think the point is to force others to do what you enjoy, nor to force others to spend as much time on the hobby as you do...
But for many of us, playing a decent looking table with painted models (no matter how good/bad the paint is) is an essential part of the hobby. It is the way we understand and enjoy the hobby. This does not mean others should adhere to this way of gaming/hobbying, because there are dozens of ways to do so (none of them being right or wrong). However, it means that if I encounter someone that is only interested in rolling dice no matter how pitiful the conditions, I will simply walk away. Because I do not enjoy spending my time playing against a plastic grey mass. I'm sure other people actually do. Good for them.
That's why we should stick to like-minded individuals when hobby-socialising (gaming ,etc). I suppose that for tournaments, there are other factors that influence the need of paint, as others pointed out (visibility, etc). So avoiding those type of tournaments wouldn't be a bad idea if it is not the way you like the hobby.
Nicely put.
Although, I have to say, most people I play against have nothing against grey armies. They prefer painted ones, but will happily play against anybody.
What I wanted to know was if there was some official statement from GW. Because that's the manager who told me that "I was lucky that he let me play".
Anyway, cheers for your input. -
4 minutes ago, Lucur said:
I'll be back at the office tomorrow, i'll quote stuff from there. Can't straight up upload it from work due to security and all, but i'll figure out a way
Take a phone pic
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20 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said:
These largely fall on a store-by-store basis in the same way the allowance of Forge World models does. If HQ inquired, he'd probably say that he has an X% increase of paint sales around tournaments when he requires it and that would be the end of it. By the same token, another store might say allowing grey plastic encourages people who're paint-shy to buy more kits to participate.
That would be a very interesting enquiry to read !
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25 minutes ago, Kramer said:
Why should I be punished because my opponent sets a too high painting standard for himself?
Well, you're not. Your minis are good looking, mine aren't.
That's where I differ from all of you, I don't care or feel disrepected by what another player do! If I want to see good looking minis, I can read White Dwarf, go online, or just look at the Store's miniature, or come during painting events
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Now I thank all of you, for giving your view on this matter, especially those who tried to explain their point of view/stance in a positive and encouraging manner!
@Overread @michu It took me way to long to paint my 1250points and then again, everything was finished. The Store manager let me play because I decided to be in the tournament like less a month before its start. So that's nice from him. Thing is spend 4 hours on a mini to have a mediocre result, whereas some people can achieve the same result in 20mins! And time is of the essence ...
PS : the lib's hammer is broken bc I stripped him of paint for I wasn't happy with my level of painting, so that's another loss of time!
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1 hour ago, Melcavuk said:
Its worth mentioning most in store tournaments arent "Official Events" in that its literally the manager driving footfall into the shops, and as such all requirements, planning and specification for said tournament are entirely down to that Stores manager. They are able to, entitled to and often will assign whatever requirements they want for the tournament in the hopes of it boosting footfall and sales, as ultimately they are judged on sales and atv (average transaction value) as opposed to running events that fit each individuals style.
For this reason painted is almost always a requirement, as it sells paint. It also provides better advertising to sell models when players face a fully painted, fully assembled army. Essentially your role as a participant is a somewhat mobile mannequin for their product lines, yes you get a great day of tournament out of it but the stores benefit is from selling more.
Official events, such as those at Warhammer World, or the Citadel, all require fully painted, correctly based models, with all conversions or variation requiring prior approval from the events team.
Yes, totally logical point.
50 minutes ago, carnith said:At the GW store I play at, having an unpainted army means nothing. You can still play at the store, because the manager also knows that if he says you can't play cause of unpainted, a lot of people won't come back and the store looks empty.
That's what might happen to me in a very near future as I'll finally become my own boss, I'll work 7 days a week, at least 9 hours a day then I'll have to study for my Master's degree, then commute (1h30 a day) , then spend some time with my GF. So if that's down to not allow me to play because people are FEELING disrespected (the logical business explanation is actually more relatable to me) then the Store will lose one client. The manager won't care , because he has plenty of groupies in need of a place to play/hang out, but that will make one less "normal" guy in the GW. And believe me, that particular GW is in dire need of regular people.
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5 minutes ago, zedatkinszed said:
At my local GW I was shocked when the manager said "we encourage painted minis" but they don't require it at games nights. I'd be surprised if at AOS GW game night anyone would bat an eyelid for a beginner to turn-up with a grey or semi-grey force.
That's a mature thing to do.
9 minutes ago, zedatkinszed said:Personally I only field painted armies and I do feel a bit let down when my opponent hasn't made an effort. But that's a sliding scale. These days with a mature gaming circle there's a lot of nice minis and ppl with painting skills. But we all started somewhere and I would have zero issue playing someone's half painted force if it was their first army or first few months in the hobby. If they've been in the hobby 10-20 years (like I have) then not so much.
A lot of you who reacted to Sleboda's post have a problem to understand something, YOUR Hobby is YOURS, not everyone has the same goal.
If somebody shows with a grey force, it doesn't hurt YOUR way of doing the hobby, after all nobody deprives you the enjoyment of paiting and showing great minis. Some people don't even play with their minis, they just paint them. People don't always find the time or do not have the skill to do a proper job. It's not about how long they have been in the hobby. What are you going to do about someone who has like 1 hour of free time a day to do something else beside working, commuting, studying, taking care of his family if they don't want to spend it on painting ? NOTHING and that's not for you to decide.
I don't understand how people can be so annoyed about somebody's not wanting or being able to spend as much time as they do on a hobby.
Are you guys GW stockholders ?
I really think some of you have confusing ideas about where your boundaries cease. You are you. Somebody else is somebody else. If they don't have the same way/time of seeing the hobby, then whoy care ? It's not like they're spitting in your face, stealing from you or whatever criminal or anti-societal action they could do.
The only thing I ask of any person I play with, is not to cheat. Period. Being fair play and polite is great, if furthermore they're nice guys to talk with while playing or afterwards that's a bonus.
I don't know if that's because english is not my mother tongue that you don't understand what I mean or ... -
23 minutes ago, michu said:
Look how Duncan's first miniature looked like, yours is already better.
Wow, was he 8
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1 minute ago, Overread said:
Actually its my experience that photos tend to show up models FAR more so than real life. Depending on how well you take the photo.
Seriously get a bit closer (or crop) and take your fingers out and lets see it properly.
Ok, my GF's coming and she's got an Iphone. It takes way better pictures than my 8years old galaxy phone
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2 minutes ago, Overread said:
And that level of painting would be perfectly fine for an event.
As for 4 hours - yeah painting takes time. If you an already paint to that level then chances are you and do a decent army for an event.
Saddly I'll have to do everything again because it turns out Contrast paints wear off very easily if you don't put a varnish spray!
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1 minute ago, michu said:
What are you talking about? Really nice Stormcast,
Nah really. It's worse IRL :D.
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5 minutes ago, Overread said:
In the end painting your models isn't a huge ask really; and iwth contrast paints; lots of online and paper resources and local people the BIGGER barrier for the vast majority of people is being willing to put some money and lots of time into learning and improving.
Contrast sucks (for begginers). Took me at least 4 hours to convert and paint that SOB :
4 hours ! and it's wonky as hell! Big hammer guy's hammer is bent AF!
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3 minutes ago, Overread said:
In the end the vast majority of gamers are going to encourage you to learn to paint. Even those of us (like myself) who are also terrible painters with a perfectionist edge that results in never getting any painting done.
Yeah, and most of you were pretty cool in that way, telling me how it's great, how it's part of the hobby, etc.
3 minutes ago, Overread said:Even those of us (like myself) who are also terrible painters with a perfectionist edge that results in never getting any painting done.
Dude, are you y doppleganger ?
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2 minutes ago, Scythian said:
Lol, yes, certain game stores do attract a rogue’s gallery of “odd ducks” and “unique” characters. These gaming communities tend to have bad vibes and poor cohesion. This can often make the socially trained person feel very uncomfortable and even scare them away from the hobby. On the flip side, some game stores have a strong community of socially trained people which makes the walk-in newbies more comfortable and allows them the chance to learn and grow as a gamer. If you had a stronger gaming community, you’d probably enjoy all the parts of the hobby.
I totally agree with what you said. The best fun I had was playing WFB V8 for a year and a half, with a dentist who was about my age and whom with I could have regular conversations.
Not saying you can't have regular conversations if you're a factory worker huh ^^. -
2 minutes ago, Sleboda said:
Your dismissal of your opponents' enjoyment of the hobby is disheartening, and your comparison to dice rolling mechanics that implies cheating is way off base.
Cheating is bad.
Embracing the hobby for the mutual benefit of both players is good.
Not only does GW encourage painted models, I'd be totally supportive of it somehow being a requirement if play. The experience is a thousand times better and, in the end, helps keep many players engaged in the hobby for longer and at a higher level of care and investment.
What's disheartening to ME is that YOU'd deprive somebody of their enjoyment just because YOU think they don't deserve to play gainst YOU.
If somebody's really into painting that's cool, and I have nothing to say about it. Why would you have to say something about me not being into it ?-
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9 minutes ago, Scythian said:
Very interesting topic. I simply cannot and will not put an army on the table unless it’s painted. That wasn’t always the case for me. It took a certain degree of effort to watch painting videos, ask advice from pros, and simply practice. Maturin, no one expects you to be Leonardo DiVinci. Most of us aren’t master painters. However, I’ve never known of any gamer being respected in the community playing “bareback” models. And yet, people will always respect the gamer that at least tries. Now, go get those paints and get to it!
Hey buddy :).
Well, I don't really care about being "respected" by others because my minis are grey. I'd rather be proud of myself because I thought a lot about a list's synergy, how I did outsmart my opponent by reacting to his moves and won with fairplay!
For sure, I'd like to have a cabinet full of wonderfully painted minis, but hey, maybe in another life time 😛 -
No way, you have game nights in your GW ?
Ours close at 7pm, well most at the time it even closes at 6pm or even 5.30 because the manager has had a lot of "exceptionnal early closing" lately.
See, that's a very big difference here. A lot of the regulars in my Gw are socially akward people, no mean people, but akwards. Some of them, I personnally feel discomfort when they're talking to me for too long and I'm someone who actually enjoys meeting new people. Imagine if I had to listen to them for hours for painting lessons.
And most of the very good painters don't really hang out at the Gdubs. They paint at their place.
You clearly don't have the same kind of atmosphere in your Gw than I do in mine. That's why I don't think it's fair to rob me or threaten to rob me of the only thing I really enjoy in the hobby! -
The thing I have a problem with, is GW's mentality, and some store manager's too.
I mean, I'm already paying for the miniatures. I'm paying for the paints, altough I don't use them. And then, I'm being told like they're doing ME a favour by letting me play unpainted miniatures.
Imagine you're selling pizzas, if you do not have tables for people to eat, then that's it. But if you have tables, you're not going to tell those customers "Hey, I'm giving you a favoir by letting you eat here you know! So you use your fork and knife, no hands allowed or bust !"
But with GW, they always pretend that they're giving you a favor. Just like they say "Oh we have free activities inside the store. You can come and build your models, with your glue, and paint them with your paints" Where's the free ? I just bought all that from your shop ... Free lessons ? Sure, like a guy in a one man shop can give you a private painting lesson 1 on 1, when he's being asked questions every 2 minutes, has to go back to the register to cash people out etc.
Anyway, I think this debate could go on and on. -
4 minutes ago, Aelfric said:
It is a difficult but rewarding part of the hobby, and well worth pursuing, and you will find actually playing the game more fun with painted models.
Nope, I don't :).
I have the same fun, with my grey minis as with my ****** anvils of the shittypainthammer!
I can appreciate a good paint job though, and it's always nice to watch some people's well painted minis. But if somebody wants to play the GreyHammer with me, I'm totally fine ! -
Ok, thanks for your reply.
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2 minutes ago, Overread said:
In the end yes you might well be forbidden from the events if you refuse to paint your army.
Thank you for your intake. I do not refuse to paint. I suck at it, got plenty of advices, some leeway, my painted models sucks (to my standard), and I don't really have a lot of time.
What I'd like to know is that, is there an official statement from GW, or is it up to the store manager ?
PS ; Your point about others preferring to play against painted armies is to me irrelevant. I'd like my opponents to be fair play and roll dices correctly. Some just drop them, save 13 out 15 wounds, are always over the top stats wise, whereas I always launch the dice so it really rolls and only luck, not throwing method impacts the rolls, but if they don't want to do it the "correct" way after being asked, then I have nothing else to say. I can't force them to change dices either. Why should I be punished for being bad at painting and/or too perfectionnist.
Cheers! -
On 8/30/2019 at 1:07 PM, zilberfrid said:
Then I was lied to, or people did not remember those bits. Memory does not always work well.
About Underworld, I have only one season one warband, but I mainly like it as a self contained game, where I have enough stuff for friends to play at my home. If it does not have longevity, I will abandon that as well, unless I like the models, of course. Now these being cards, I can understand the need to errata, remove or rework specific cards. That happens with Magic as well. If that remains limited, I have no issue with it. If entire warbands are removed/disallowed, well, that is a different, and more sordid tale.
I am not looking for a game where models are dumped a left and right. And yes, more research, or just starting four months later would have preempted me from playing. I would not have had these
Once again, go find some people to play WFB V8 or the ninth age, those are great games!
Honestly, If I had a friend or two to play WFB V8 with, I wouldn't even bother with AOS AT ALL! -
HEy guys,
Don't know if it's the right place to ask but this is a big question for me! I totally suck at painting. Hoarding ? Not so much.
Basically, I have a lot of grey miniatures, because it breaks my heart to totally ruin those good looking minis with a horrible paint job!
So, in my GW, it's mandatory that for tournaments, miniatures be at least base coat + bases + shade, but is there really a regulation about that ?
Let's say I want to participate in a tournament, because it's my favourite part of the hobby, and I'm forbidden to do so, because my minis are greys. Would it be condone by GW?
Cheers guys! -
4 hours ago, Mark Williams said:
Knight Questor is pretty much for the RPs...
Or to make some nice conversion! Knight questor body and left arm/weapon, with the Tempestor Hammer from the LCOD made a fine lord celestant on the tabletoday
AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion
in Stormcast Eternals
Posted
Wow, that's a strick work place or I don't know one ^^.
Yeah, a separate spread sheet, but in excel, would be nice, we could easily see the stats without having to brows 250 pages of discussion!