Heijoshin
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Posts posted by Heijoshin
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2 minutes ago, Emissary said:
Also, one of those mortek guard units was probably 10 less as the current points cost of the list is 2,080.
Its 440 points for 40 mortek guard and not the usual 520 you would think. There is a saving for taking larger units. That makes it spot on 2000 points.
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4 hours ago, Inquisitorsz said:
(...)
As for OBR in general... it's too early to tell since they're only just starting to pop up in tournaments now.
But KRIGSLUNTAN GT this past weekend had 92 players and one OBR player finished 2nd being one of only 3 undefeated lists. The others being Slaanesh (winner) and Khorne.
The OBR player won against 4th, 9th and 11th (which was DoK, Skaven, DoT) so it's not like he had an easy run either. All 3 of those were 4-1 players.
BTW his list was
Petrifax Elite (+1 save)
Katakros
Soulmason
40 Mortek Guard
20 Mortek Guard
20 Mortek Guard
2 x Mortek Crawlers
So.... yay, he didn't have harvesters... but still had 80 infantry with 3+ saves and 2 catapults.
I wouldn't say it's the most interesting list.
I think it's really important to give some context to this list though. He didn't just win because he used lots of guard and 2 crawlers. Out of all the lists, this was the only one that went higher than 3-2, despite many of the lists using Mortek Crawlers (I think 5 of the 9 had 2 Mortek crawlers included) and many lists using more than 60 guard (two lists using 60 guard also had 1 harvester). There was even a Nagash list with just him, Liege Kavalos and 70 guard.
The most important factor in seeing this list place 2nd? Well, if you take this guy's opinion from this video: https://youtu.be/mKJQN9_Cp5E?t=6744, Adam is one of the best players in Sweden, so is it really that surprising to see him place 2nd and 5-0? I would argue that his personal skill is what gave him that 5-0, wouldn't you agree? Seeing as if we take Adam out of the equation, how did OBR fare, despite seeing lots of Mortek guard and crawlers? I get you are trying to show that you think guard and crawler "spam" is strong, which I am sure it is, but highlighting one winners list and going "look, see!" without all the context behind it feels a little disingenuous. Lots of other armies took a load of guard and crawlers and fared perfectly average at 3-2. One went 3-1 (The Nagash & 70 Guard list specifically) and I am not sure what that means. Perhaps they had to leave and didn't play the final match? Not sure and could have been a 4-1 result. The one Cremitoriam list that was there also went 3-2. This is of course one tournament and not indicative of how strong the army is as a whole. But at basically 10% representation of this whole tournament, it does give a fairly clear indication nonetheless.
Lastly, what do you mean by "interesting list"? This feels really strange to read. Like you want to see more variety of units ? Most competitive lists are not interesting if that is what you mean. Shootcast lists look so boring in my view that despite them being the best way to "win", I just can't bring myself to expand my SCE in that direction. As you obviously know, in a tournament setting efficiency > interesting every time. This is doubly so in OBR with the high point cost of the units in this army basically having larger effects than other factions.-
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16 minutes ago, Dolomyte said:
In praetorians only, and against order and destruction models.
Sure, but they wanted to know the possibilities. It also effects Chaos models also.
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3 hours ago, boots468 said:
In all the complaining about bonereapers being too good on twitter etc, a few people are mentioning us having re-rolls to wound. Have I completely missed something, or are they wrong in thinking we have that?
The only way to improve wounds I can see is the 9" melee only bubble put out by the Soulmason item that doesn't work against other death.
There is also the Arch Liege Kavalos Zandtos (probably spelt his name wrong)
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Sorry if this has already been asked, but does the latest Designer Commentary now mean that the Immortis Guard can't benefit from the Reinforce Battle Shield spell too, despite having Nadirite Battle Shields??
Here it is:
Q: Can Katakros, Mortarch of the Necropolis, benefit from the ‘Reinforce Battle-shields’ spell?
A: No, the ‘Shields’ in this rule refer to the weapon option for Mortek Guard and Kavalos Deathriders units.
This is confusing....
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I genuinely do not know what to think of this. I am not an old school WHFB player, and only got into AoS fairly recently after loving Vermintide and TW:W2.
On the one hand I am curious and would love to get into it, but also it doesn't make the most sense to me compared to something like Age of Myth or something. For me 30k to 40k has a natural progression "this lead to that" sort of thing, and whilst that is kinda true for fantasy, the "blowing up" of the old world has more real life symbolism with how it relates to GWs attitude to fantasy post AoS announcement. It's always "The world that was" like it was some mysterious and almost taboo thing to mention, like mentioning Voldemort by name or something. That and all the legal and financial stuff around WHFB makes it seem that the blowing up of the old world is such a cataclysmic event, that it was done and over and nothing more than a slight reference when needed. Basically I see WHFB and AoS as two games (narratively and literally), rather than one. Whereas I see 30k and 40k as one game narratively, seperated by rule variations.
At the end of the day (AND MOST IMPORTANTLY) I am happy people get to play what they want and how they want. I don't fault that at all. People should get to have it if they want it. I am just a little perplexed as to the reasoning, as it seems counter to GWs whole thinking since they end times.
Also: SETTRA'S BACK BABY!-
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58 minutes ago, Dracan said:
Thats a lot of dice, to push through wounds on characters. Really starting to like idea of Arkhan and archia retinue within aegis immortal batalion.
If arkhan suffers a wound, in petrafix he will have 3+ save a 6+++ death save then on 2+ archia gets the wound and saves on 3+ then 6+++. If it was a mortal wound its 6+++ then 2+ gets passed then 5+++ followed by 6+++.
And even better if the dice to pass the save is 5+ it just goes away
That's not exactly how it works. Both arkhan and the guard don't get to do their own saves and after saves. That would be too much. From what people are saying (and people correct me if I am wrong) it goes like this.
-save roll of Arkhan
- wound allocated to Immortis Guard or Archai (with batallion) on a 2+. 5+ wound is just negated
- any after saves are applied e.g.
- 5+ mortal wound save from Archai
- 5+ save for mortal wounds if the Immortis Guard have the shield spell thing on them
- Both get 6++ death save.
As you can see the Imortis Guard / Archai don't get to do their own normal save, because that stage is already over and Arkhan doesn't do any after save because the wound moves to someone else before he can do that. If the 2+ guard ability fails, then sure he can do his own after saves. But you can't double up.
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1 hour ago, XReN said:
It is stated in the rules for Piling In, in a part that was quoted and highlighted TWICE here
59 minutes ago, Gwendar said:This really is a separate thing altogether and you shouldn't keep comparing them. The SoS ability lets them effectively get 6" away (IE not making a charge) and still pile in as it overrides the need for them to be within 3" to pile in.
Deathrider CA defaults to the core rule for piling in, allowing them to pile in to a unit regardless because they charged a unit.37 minutes ago, relic456 said:Yeah the rules are pretty clear. If you charged, you get to pile in (as per the quoted rules). You usually get to pile in 3", but the CA lets you increase that. If you had enough RDP, you could pile in as far as your RDP allow.
To further @Gwendar's point, the abilities that clarify you can pile in from further away from normal are there to allow you to avoid charging if you so choose.Then I'm definitely wrong and confusing these two things entirely. I guess this will get clarified soon enough!
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1 minute ago, XReN said:
U wot?
They are eligible to pile in if they charged, don't you get it? Other criteria doesn't matter in this case
Like I said, there are other abilities which specifically state that a unit can pile in from further away I.e. sisters of slaughter and bloodthirster of unfettered fury. This does not state that. This states more distance when they move. If GW wanted to allow this ability to allow you to pile in from further it would state so.
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4 minutes ago, Gwendar said:
Yes, you can. The rules give 2 criteria for piling in:
So the idea is to stack the CA, wipe the unit out with mortals and then get the extra pile in distance and hit another unit which is exceptionally good at clearing smaller screens (Skinks, Marauders, etc) and then piling into whatever they were screening (probably a bigger unit that doesn't want to get hit by 10-15 Deathriders).Sure, I'm not saying that they can't charge in general. I'm saying they wouldnt be allowed to pile another unit from say 15" away.
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On 11/6/2019 at 1:47 PM, Dracan said:
Quick question regarding dethriders ability
You can use this command ability when a friendly KAVALOS DEATHRIDERS unit that includes a Mortek Hekatos finishes a charge
move. You can pick 1 enemy unit within 1" of that KAVALOS DEATHRIDERS unit and roll a
number of dice equal to the number of models in that KAVALOS DEATHRIDERS unit. For each
5+, the enemy unit suffers 1 mortal wound. In addition, in the following combat phase, that KAVALOS DEATHRIDERS unit can move an
extra 3" when it piles in.do you guys think this is stackable?
ie. I use 4 cp and do 4x models mw on 5+ and then they are able to pile in 15" ??
charge chaff 10" away blow them up with mortal wounds pile into something other side of table???
On 11/6/2019 at 2:03 PM, Sception said:currently yes. I can't imagine it will survive faq.
On 11/6/2019 at 1:57 PM, XReN said:Yes, it seems stackable
It does not matter if its stackable or not, as it doesn't matter if you can move an extra x", you still have to be within 3" of a unit to make a pile in. If what you are trying to say is: you charge, dump CP, kill the unit, then pile in another unit thats far away, fhen you can't then pile into another unit more than 3" away. It gives you extra distance when MAKING a pile in, not DECLARING one. In other words, it gives you extra distance on where you can pile in TO, not where you pile in FROM. Hope that makes sense.
The Sisters of Slaughter Dance of Death ability on the otherhand specifically states it can pile in FROM 6" and pile in 6".
Still, it will be probably FAQd to not be stackable, so I wouldn't treat it as such.
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1 hour ago, tea_wild_owl said:
bones are contrast basilicanum grey, black is contrast black templar, gold is liberator gold and the red is bold for the blood God (I play it as hardened blood stone gems), then wash with nuln oil. very easy and fast for the guard units
Looks amazing! Did you prime it with a particular primer? Or just do a standard colour?
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20 minutes ago, Blitzd said:
*snip*
12 minutes ago, Arcian said:With 20 points left, you could throw in a carrion for funsies
This.
I think with this army, every point counts and if you can squeeze in anything else, then do it. If you don't use it, it is there if you end up needing it. It can't hurt can it?? -
20 minutes ago, alghero81 said:
Sorry all but I’m not understanding the Cauldron of torment missile attack.
It says: “pick one unit and roll one dice for each model. Add the modifier to each roll. If the result is equal to or greater than the unmodified Bravery characteristic of the target unit, 1 model from that unit is slain”.
So that means that against extremely low bravery units, like clanrats with 4, we have 50% chance to kill every model from that unit? And becomes totally useless against all bravery 7 or above units?
Example:
If the enemy unit has 20 models and it has bravery 4. You roll 20 dice and every 4+ a model is dead. Obviously you need to take into account your modifier on your roll.
At least that is how I am reading it.
And yes, anything above Bravery 6 is basically immune. -
The boney bois are available in the Azyr app, although there does appear to be a potential mistake (see pic).
I guess they meant to put Nagash and Arkhan there instead, as they can't be found and thus selected to be put in the army.
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1 minute ago, PraetorDragoon said:
Can't you give the Kavalos the Dark Acolyte trait so he can cast?
Isn't that a trait from Legions of Sacrament though?
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1 minute ago, Nasnad said:
But you do get extra spells and resurrection from an extra caster. But i agree, now knowing that i get 2 from the LK, i might try to fit him in instead.
Indeed, its just you specifically mentioned you wanted more heroes for more RDP, from that perspective it doesn't make as much sense. This is especially true if it's a 1k game.
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3 minutes ago, Nasnad said:
I had missed that, thanks, an even better reason to to take a liege-kavalos. But kinda avoiding him in my 1000 list, as i wanted more small heroes to generate more RDP.
I see what you are saying, but as a balance between point costs and RDP generation, wouldn't it be better to take the LK in a 1k game?
- LK: 200 points and 2RDP (can get a 3rd on a 6+)
or
- Two heroes (lowest is 120 - so 240) for 2 RDP (can get a 3rd and 4th on a 6+ each).
Just my opinion, but an extra 40 points (at the very least) for the potential to get one extra RDP each round isn't worth it. And that is just if you take two Soul Reapers as your heroes. -
4 minutes ago, Sception said:
Keep in mind that you don't get shrugs from the original target, just regular saves. So attack targets the hero, rolls to hit and wound as normal, hero rolls to save, unsaved wounds result in damage. Before that damage is allocated to the hero (so before they get any shrugs), roll to shift the damage to the bodyguard unit. After allocating the damage (either to the guarding unit or the hero depending on die results), you then roll any appropriate shrugs, before finally applying wounds to the units in question. In the end it's the same number of saves/shrugs as you'd get otherwise, with an extra transfer step inserted in the middle.
Ah thats good to know! I was wondering if this would work in conjunction with the spell that gave the 5+fnp on MW for those with shields (and give it to the liege first). I was starting to gawp in disbelief at how many shrugs this could do
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1 hour ago, Scurvydog said:
Wound allocation is a bit wonky at times, but I believe it will basically follow normal processes after the armor save step, so whatever the heroes armor save fails will then carry over on a 2+ to the morghast. Then this is treated as an unsaved wound or mortal wound with all the secondary saves and ignores after that. I might be wrong but this is how I see it.
So basically the Morghasts can shrug it off too? Is it just me or is that a lot of shrugs and potential to just nullify lots if damage?
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Regarding the Morghast Archai unit in the Aegis Batallion: Do they still get to do their own 5+ shrug against mortal wounds and the 6+ general shrug? Or is it because a wound was "dealt" to the hero, then they can't do their own saves against it? So would it go down like this:
- Lets say Liege Kavalos takes a wound after his own saves etc
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Morghast roll for the bodyguard ability:
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2+ they take it instead
- 5+ it's actually negated
- If less than 5 they can use their own 5+ FNP (if its a mortal wound)
- 6+ general FNP
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2+ they take it instead
If they can do either of their shrugs, this seems really powerful to have a unit of Archai from this Battalion with a Liege Kav, who could be giving them +1 attack, as well as having the Petrifex benefits, trait and artefact to himself and the command ability to the Archai (or whoever else).
Just spitballing here but the Morghast, whilst perhaps not as blendy and killy as the stalkers, or as defensive are great hybrids that can really play however you need them to. -
Seeing as we can't use allies, are there perhaps any interesting Mercenary choices? Do people even take them usually (in a general sense, not specific to OBR)?
What do people think the reasoning is to not allow them when Nagash or Arkhan is taken?
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2 hours ago, Lior'Lec said:
@Heijoshin I mean just mixing in some standard yellowish bone colored guys with some that are more grayish and maybe even a couple greenish (mossy bones). Newer bones being more yellow in tone while the older ones taking on grey and green tints. Just an idea so that every soldier doesn’t have the exact same “skin tone” but it’s up to personally preference really.
That's a great idea! I'm new to painting and the game so this never crossed my mind. Thanks for the tip! What would be good yellowy paints to use and the moss would be a wash kinda thing right?
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20 hours ago, Redking said:
All the pics I’ve seen are really dark or blurry because of motion. I think regular bone colors would work best with the green glowing eyes for spot color. The armor looks like it has a lot of verdigris, so Nihlakh Oxide to help age. Doesn’t look very rusty, though. Dark clothing would help set off the bronze and verdigris.
Good luck.
Yes, you are aright that it the pics aren't perhaps the best, but the best I could do from Google. They weren't exactly a focal point of the movie, so not a lot of clear imagery of them unfortunately. I appreciate you taking the time to give some advice though. I definitely think Nihlakh is needed here. I do think that regular bone colour is the easiest way to go probably, or perhaps a little greyish colour (as @Lior'Lec pointed out as an option).
19 hours ago, michu said:I think you could paint the armour with Waagh! Flesh + Nuln Oil combination.
Interesting combo! Will take a look at what this might look like! Thank
15 hours ago, Lior'Lec said:@Heijoshin, I agree with @Redking the armor looks like it has a lot of verdigris but in some of the photos it also looks like there is some old chipped red on the armor as well (old lacquer on the armor?) so I’d say try a test model (space marine should work well) with a dark bronze armor (personally I’d use Warplock, Agrax, Sycorax or Runelord for edging, Nihlakh). Depending on how detailed you wanna get you could use some liquid mask to cover random patches of the base coat then apply your choice of dark red to get the chipped effect before applying the wash (more work than I’d be willing to do).
For the bones I’d do a small variety with them with different models ranging from greyed ancient bones through to fresh yellows. Have more “older” colors than “newer” shades to help the green of the eyes stand out.
I noticed the red too. I think if I add red, I may just add a dark redish colour to the sash that hangs between the legs, just to add some variation to the colours. I think the hardest for me is the choice of bone colour, but I guess I just have to experiment a little. For the armour, I was thinking something similar to what you suggested. Have the armour plates blacker / darker or with more Nihlakh, with the rims at the top (which should be bone) as more bronzey with less Nihlakh.
What do you mean with "older" colors and "newer" shades exactly?
EDIT:
Thanks to all three of you for answering! I really appreciate it
AoS 2 - Ossiarch Bonereapers Discussion
in Death
Posted · Edited by Heijoshin
Does anyone have any or seen any recommendations, styles or themes for speed painting these bois? I'm not gonna lie, as much as I wanted to have the perfect scheme, I know it's going to take me ages to get them all painted. So something simple, easy yet nice would be really great.
I'm thinking along the lines of the "stonecast" theme when I mean "simple, easy yet nice" or the ghost army style (and others) that you see on the "citadel colour: Concept" playlist on the Warhammer TV Youtube. Something simple and that I can probably do by drybrushing mostly.