[Starting Nighthaunt: First Approach (Help needed)]

1 hour ago, kryptman said:

So here is a second try. I did include the Dreadblade and restructured my Battleline. This forced me to cut on the Revenants. I also switched the KoS for Reikenor and dropped the Endless Spell. Not sure about that move. I also got one artefact left.

In my opinion, the only reason why you'd want to consider Reikenor is his +3 to cast, which is typically leveraged to cast the Chronomantic Cogs on a 4+, making them quite a reliable cast. It's an investment, but depending on the list it could be worth it. A mounted Knight of Shrouds (KoS) with an artefact such as the Balefire Blade dishes out way more damage than Reikenor - the latter, however, is a caster with a decent anti-horde spell. So your choice is a valid one - I'd probably opt for a mounted KoS, though, as he can give the Revenants that clutch +1 attack each for a Command Point. In fact, I'd say the biggest problem of our named heroes is that they are much worse as support heroes if compared with the non-named ones.

1 hour ago, kryptman said:

Furthermore: Do I really need the Shroudguard Battalion?

No, not really. The Chainguard is probably a better option. A 5+ shrug looks very solid on paper, but the problem is that our Revenants are supposed to go against the opponent's elite units - which will wipe our Revenants out whether they have a 5+ or a 6+ shrug. Those points could be used to add the Cogs in or some more bodies even. 

I like your second list the most - in terms of strength. The reason why I don't personally play Chainrasps is because I can't be bothered to buy and paint 40/80 tiny models to a decent standard  

Re: the missing artefact: @punkycloud's suggestion is good - I personally don't like it too much, but many people swear by it so it must be good. Thing is: either you make good use of screens, or you deep strike via From the Underworld they Come, hence +3 movement is good but not great, especially taking into account the fact that the whole of our army flies, which is usually enough to outmanouver most opponents. My favourite Nighthaunt artefacts: the Midnight Tome on a Spirit Torment and the Balefire Blade on a mounted KoS. The Gryph-feather Charm on your squishy Dreadblade Harrow is also an option (flat -1 to hit? Yes please) to make it more durable, as shooting is now a serious threat in AoS. 

In any case, your lists are definitely in the right ballpark for playing "competitive" Nighthaunt: good mobility, a decent number of bodies... the two things I'd work on (obviusly it's always a case of compromising... 2000 pts are not that many after all!) would be (1.) screens/chaff. Our "heavy" hitters are all glass cannons: whether you get the charge first with your Reapers or Revenants would make the difference between wiping out that enemy unit or your units instead. Screens (Spirit Hosts and Chainrasps are my favourite, with the former being actual threats because of their mortal wounds output and the latter because of how cheap they are) are key to ensure the charges go off at the right time - coupled with the fact we fly, that makes for a powerful tool in our Nighthaunt box. (2.) A distraction piece, tanky enough to survive 2 or 3 battlerounds even in combat and killy enough to worry your opponent, so as to having them focusing on said piece as opposed to your expensive, squishy units. I'll be running a Mourngul in my next list: now that the Black Coach went down in points one could argue that it's not worth it, but if you pair a Mourngul with a Spirit Torment (ideally equipped with a Midnight Tome) you have a -1 to hit bubble coupling with some decent healing power for both and a very useful re-rolling hits of 1. A Mortarch (my favourite for Nighthaunt is Neferata) can also work, but 340 pts is too much of an investment in my view. 

Final thought: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts is good with 1-wound models, but it's downright outrageous with Spirit Hosts, allowing you to return as many as 9 wounds on the table for free. Given that you have quite a few bodies in your list, investing in a very tanky section of Spirit Hosts + Dreadblade Harrow could be an idea.

But again, everyone, myself included, has a very biased opinion about what a list should look like, so take all of the above with a grain of salt!

[Starting Nighthaunt: First Approach (Help needed)]

@kryptman, glad to hear you have picked the Nighthaunt (NH) as your entry ticket to the awesomeness of Age of Sigmar. The one piece of advice I feel worth sharing even before going into your list is: "stick with them". NH are not an easy faction to play with: they require very careful positioning (the best example of this is the infamous "wholly within" wording that cripples many of our abilities), they don't deal much damage and they die rather quickly (despite being ethereal). Finally, as opposed to most (but not all) Death armies, once summonable units are gone, they're gone for good. No bringing them back with one CP (which is why LoG is much "simpler" to play). In a nutshell: it's a very tough place to start, but if you enjoy the challenge it's also a great place to start! I said "stick with them" because I found that it took me a long while to start winning games with them. You really have to commit to a list and learn how to make the best out of it, and with NH the only way forward is playing the list and slowly refining the way you play, especially movement wise - with the additional layer of complexity given by "From the Underworld they Come".

 Now, the list:

On 1/3/2020 at 1:46 PM, Fabbbio said:

You can choose only 1 artifact in your whole list. If you add batallions you can add 1 extra artifact per batallion. In this case you have 1 batallion but 3 artifacts, you should remove 1

@Fabbbio, the Chill Blade is not an artefact, is one of the two weapons available to a Guardian of Souls (GoS) - as such, @kryptman's list is perfectly legal. I very much agree with the suggestion of swapping the Beacon with the Lantern, though; +1 to cast is very useful to get your spells off. Speaking of which, I'd put Spectral Tether onto Lady Olynder, as she has the potential to actually withstand some damage, as opposite to your GoS. You simply want to keep him out of trouble, shooting and mortal wounds included - he won't last a single turn. I'd give Shademist to your GoS instead - probably the best spell we have, -1 to wound his huge and with the Lantern you'll cast it on a 5+; awesome. I know you have it on your Spirit Torment already, but it's such a goos spell... Soul Cage would be my next pick. Keep in mind that Lifestealer is tougher to cast then Spectral Tether and you need an enemy to deal mortal wounds to... so always pick Spectral Tether instead of Lifestealer, I'd say.

Then: your choice of battlelines is a bit peculiar. I imagine you're trying to maximise the occurrence of a Wave of Terror? I wouldn't do that at all, especially with Chainrasps and Reapers: the strength of these units is in their numbers. Remember, they don't come back. 10 damage? Almost anything in AoS can dish that out in a single turn. I'd probably go for 2 X 20 Chainrasps and 1 x 30 Reapers (which will get you some spare points as well!). 

Similar thing with your battallion: your are paying the somehow hefty price of the Shroudguard to give a 5+ instead of a 6+ shrug to only 10 revenants?! No way - 2 units of 10 is what you want, perhaps two of 20 even. Wave of Terror is not something you can/should rely on. It's a bonus, not a given. What's a given is that small units get wiped out very easily indeed - and they don't come back in NH.

The Palisade is a nice touch. 

Finally, you're not leveraging the Dreadblade Harrow + Spectral Summons combo (which I find to be THE most amazing feature of NH) - I'm not saying you should, but think about it... moving 30 Reapers on the other side of the board for 1 CP, perhaps escaping a dangerous matchup and placing them on a precious objective instead? Yes please! AoS is all about the objectives and as such movement is key. This is our true strength. You will never table your opponent with a NH army. In fact, most times you win you would have been tabled by the end of the 5th battleround - but because we can move around so much, we can be clever about it a clutch a victory. It's almost always close with good opponents. We don't just go and kill - NH are for the discerning player.

Hope this helps - and please do stick with your squishy ghost for long enough to start appreciating them!

[AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion]

1 hour ago, Public Universal Duardin said:

Hey guys, gals and enby pals! Being of the indecisive sort I let the great god Nuffle decide my first AOS army from a pool of 'Wow, these guys look like great fun" - and Nighthaunt won by a great margin! Despite loud protests about using bone dice near a necromancer of Shyish I want to get into painting ASAP so I can start to ruffle the feathers (pun intended) of my buddy the Tzeentch-player. But Nighthaunts are a quite large army in terms of models (and just by hero choices alone!) - what would you suggest for a friendly/casual 1000p levels? I don't have to win, but I rather have some great ghastly fun instead of realising there's zero synergy and half the points being named heroes is a waste.

I agree with @dmorley21. In order to provide a concrete example along their suggestions, here's what I usually run in a 1000 pts list. Three different threats making decent use of three hallmarks of Nighthaunt funplay: (1.) The Phantasmal Discorporation + Spectral Summons combo (Dreadblade Harrow + 6 Spirit Hosts) (2.) A solid unit of Reapers wounding on 2+ (thanks to the Guardian of Souls) (3.) A fairly heavy-hitting vanguard surging from the Underworld (5 Revenants + the mounted Knight of Shrouds). Nothing spectacular, just a fairly easy list which can bring some fun on the table!

 

 

 

[AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion]

23 minutes ago, Greasygeek said:

 

Wait what now?! I might be playing this wrong but are you sure you are allowed to use the Vampire Lord’s command ability (+1A)? 
 

Thought it was against the rules to use cmd abilites from allies??

Yes you can, it's perfectly fine. The Command Ability is tied to the warscroll (not the allegiance!), and as such it can be safely used as long as the right keyword is invoked. Said keyword, in the case of Blood Feast, is DEATH, which obviously include anything Nighthaunt. As such, you are allowed to use not only Blood Feast, but Deathly Invocation (D3 models back for as many as 3 summoable units within [not wholly  within!!] 12") as well.

In fact, a Vampire Lord is vastly superior to a mounted Knight of Shrouds, as his (the Vampire Lord) Command Ability lasts until your next hero phase (not just for a single combat phase) and can be leveraged by any unit within (not wholly within!) 15". Add to all this the fact that a Vampire Lord is a caster (he doesn't know a spell from the Nighthaunt Lore, but a Mistic Shield is always a useful thing to have, not to mention Realm Spells if in use) and you have an auto-include for just 20 pts more. The Vampire Lord + mounted Knight of Shrouds is a powerful combo, giving you (for 2 CP, so that's quite the investment there) +2 attacks for each model in the unit. On a unit of 30 Reapers that's ~ 120 attacks (if you can pile them all in, which you usually manage to thanks to the 2" range) - notwithstanding the Bell that does its own thing. Enough to wipe out almost every large-ish unit, no matter how tough.

The same applies for the Mortarchs - their Command Abilities can be safely used on our Nighthaunt units (Vigour of Undeath from Mannfred is a good one!) as they are tied to the warscroll. 

[AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion]

11 hours ago, Greasygeek said:

at least he did not speak like the skavens do. Hate when players do that. You’re a grown person don’t act like you are a miniature... grrrr

Er... guilty, I suppose. I may whisper ghastly lines to my opponents in otherworldly tones from time to time... Nagash wants it!

7 hours ago, dmorley21 said:

Really, that's the way I deal with all shooting. I hide a few units and heroes in the underworld, then drop them when Cogs is turned up so I can re-roll charges if need be.

Yes, absolutely. The problem with Skaven is that they usually have a massive footprint on the table (40 Monks? Sure, I'll throw in some 80 Clan Rats as well...) - if your opponent is good they'll easily manage to zone you out, preventing you from taking advantage of the Underworld. 

7 hours ago, dmorley21 said:

Throwing blobs of Chainrasps at them (with +1 attack from a Vamp or KoS) can usually get the job done...

Never thought about this one... can they really dish out 40 damage, though? Say, 60 attacks if buffed (hard to pile in more than 20 I guess) 4/3/-/1, no rerolling (perhaps a Spirit Torment?), no rend (the rats get a 6+ save)... statistically we are looking at 16.67 damage, spiking at 25?

[AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion]

51 minutes ago, Greasygeek said:

Anyway what single faction do you fellow ghostmasters dislike the most? And how so you deal with them?

It'll have to be Skaven. I hate all their competitive builds, especially:

• The double 40 Plague Monks unit list. If you are horribly crafty/lucky you manage to throw a massive unit of overly-buffed Reapers at them and clean them off your table. A brief moment of utter joy follows, only to be shattered when said Reapers (probably the only unit we have that can deal with 40 Plague Monks) are decisively wiped out in return thanks to the filthiest of the filth (i.e. Death Frenzy). You don't have two massive units of Reapers - but they have another unit of 40 Plague Monks, which will be wiping off many ghosts indeed.
• The shooting variants, which special emphasis on the flippin' Stormfiends. Do I need to elaborate on why? 6 wounds each, outrageous MW output, they come out of bloody nowhere in massive units we have no way to get rid of, and by the time we are close enough to try we are wiped out already. Acolytes bother me as well...
• The Vermin Lords-heavy lists, with special hate to be reserved for the uber-tanky flavour (the Warpseer) - almost impossible to dislodge with our ghosts, as our damage output is below miserable. 

I'd love to say I have learned how to prevail against Skaven, and I believe I did: not with Nighthaunt, though. With LoG and LoB I have won most of the games I have played against Skavens - once more, bringing back units is the key. We have very little hopes against the rats, guys. Or at least, I was never able to identify a list that would work against them and something else, as in tournaments you can't really avoid going for an all-rounder if you'd like some winning chances...

So yes, rats. Their prayers truly are filthy, we have no way to stop them, they cast on impossibly low rolls and provide buffs so strong that ours looks like childplay. Not to mention their signature endless spell: the bloody Warp Lighting Vortex - massively, awfully, absolutely undercosted. And with that,  shall be done, your honour. Also, rats. Gross.

 

[AoS 2 - Soulblight Discussion]

3 hours ago, Raptor_Jesues said:

This actually looks pretty damn good. Let us nknow hot it rolls and dont forget to bottle some of the blood and label it with the year and the name of the hero tha got killed. On a similar note, i got myself a nice Skragrott bottle yesterday:

Remember the list i posted? Turns out i was to fight gobbos, not fyreslayers. I didnt change anything cose it looked rather nice against them: i had the prince, mannfred, allied mortis engine, 3x5 knights, 6 vargheist, soulsnare shackles and the sun (that i did not use). The opponent had Skragrott, a boss on squig, a big troll, 80 gobbos in three units, 2x10 squig knights, a mangler squig and two endless spells that did nothing. Scorched earth mission, he wins the setup and goes first.
turn 1:
he literally stays still, offering me a bait charge on the gobbos and pews mannfred with the moon but he ignores the wound.
I dont take the bait and go forth putting the knoghts in front for him to charge or to get a double turn. Mannfred also cast the shackles in front of the big troll and 40 gobbos basically stopping them still for the rest of the game, atta boy. 
turn 2:
i dont get the double turn. He goes and hand of gork 20 gobbos on my rear obj destroying it and unleashing the crazy gobbos with the flails into the vargheists killing ****** three. Then he charges my knights with his squig knights and the mangler squid. I start readying my bag to return home defeated but the knights not only survive but one squad also kill half the squig riders and the other squad (that was in cover and just lost one guy) almost kills the mangler in return! That was rather lucky i must say but putting them in a V formation helped minimized the damage. He breaks two more obj
I get to go and i fly a buffed vhordrai over the fighting to smash into 10 squig knights while mannfred gets in position with his command ability. My counter charge is deadly, killing all the knights (thanks vhordrai), the mangler squid (thanks blood knights) and Skragrott is fryied by the dragon with 6 mortal wounds (THANKS VHORDRAI, HOLY ******).  I manage to break one obj but at this point is clear that i will win only on a wipe out. 
turn 3:
I still dont get the double turn. He tries to salvage what is left of his army and runs from vhordrai but the shackles do their job (freakin priceless) and the important part of his army stays still. His boss runs away from the action. 
I go and vhordrai charges the 40 gobbos after flaming them, the bloodknights charge the big troll and manfred charges 20 gobbos along with the three surviving vargheists.  The troll holds with two wound left (i failed to get the knights in mannfred CA, im dumb) but he only gets two knights. mannfred and the vargheist kill 18 gobbos but thanks to the moon mountain thing they dont run away (damn). Vhordrai KILLS 35 GOBBOS but the rest does not run for the same reason. Dang it.  I burn another obj
turn 4:
I STILL DONT GET THE DOUBLE TURN. He runs away grabbing his three remaining obj and does nothing. The troll smashes another knight but gets skewered in return. 
I get to go and charge the gobbos with only three knights thinking that it will be enough while vhordrai flies over the boss and fries him along with the obj. mannfred and the vargheists kill the remaning gobbos and burn an obj BUT the bloodknights do not manage to kill 5 gobbos (ARGH) and he mantains that obj. 

we call it for the late hour and the game ends 15-18 for me, but if we played the last turn i would have burned his last obj thus probably winning but whatever, i still feel like i won. he had basically nothing left

I never really appreciated vhordrai untill now, he is a freakin beast and i love him. he killed 35 gobbos, Skragrot, a boss on squig and 10 squig knights, ending with 13 wounds left. What a champ, holy nagash. I had a lot of fun even though my luck was rather swingy
 

Great stuff - glad to hear that Our Posh Prince delivered! He dies much quicker than a “regular” VLoZD with an Ethereal Amulet or a Gryph-feather Charm, but if the opponent doesn’t have some seriously heavy hitters the V-train is well nigh unstoppable... plus, the 6 MWs flat damage on the shooting attack at full health is one of the best character-sniping resources of the entire game (well, we do have the Mortek Crawler now...). If only I could be bothered to convert&paint more Blood Knights I’d definitely field the Castellans of the Crimson Keep - potentially the coolest battalion in the whole of AoS (lore-wise, I mean). I’m not quite sold on Mannfred instead - yet...

[New to Nighthaunt - First List and help with strategy..?!?]

On 12/29/2019 at 12:51 PM, SleeperAgent said:

I used to run 1x6 Spirit Hosts and have them around my general with Ruler of the Spirit Hosts. They were never wiped off the table once. Returning 3-9 wounds with a 4+ save is super hard to chew through.

I used to run the same - took a lot of effort to get rid of them, and their mobility is phenomenal, something your opponent should/will constantly be thinking about. Then I moved to a unit of 9 Spirit Hosts, and suddenly their mortal wounds output can became a real threat. A very unreliable one, sure, but we are talking 54 dice, folks - an average of 9 mortal wounds is nothing short of amazing for their points, especially considering their staying power. They can bog down literally everything. Fantastic unit.

 

On 12/29/2019 at 2:59 PM, PALFORLIFE said:

I think I would want just a ton of smaller squads to really play the numbers game on charges.

I can understand the fun-quest, but keep in mind that (1.) it's a very unreliable endeavour, as the number of extra units you are going to bring are not going to substantially  increase your chances (2.) smaller units means that when you actually get Wave of Terror, it might not be enough to wipe your target off the table despite the double attack - at that point, you are very much in danger to be wiped out yourself... I know quite a few people have been successful with MSU lists, but I'd personally recommend to stick with big units as much as you can. 

[AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion]

On 12/31/2019 at 7:19 PM, Neck-Romantic said:

A bit lackluster; but with a little prep its a nasty ranged drop that butchers hordes on the charge

Let's not forget about the -2 rend... not much else in Nighthaunt get access to that, and this is one of the many minor (or not) weaknesses of our beloved faction. I had some success in the past by running (4) Chainghasts in conjunction with a Spirit Torment and Kurdoss: the entirety of this mojety (that works quite well in terms of From the Underworld they Come) has something with -2 rend, making for a sort of a heavy hitting phalanx to be deployed against tough heroes. - preferably your general, given Kurdoss' ability. However, the price investment to make this work is a hefty one (as it often happens to us, alas!)

[AoS 2 - Soulblight Discussion]

6 minutes ago, TMS said:

Happy new year everyone! May the coming year bring your army/armies much battle and glory!

The first list I'm going to try this year I think will be one to celebrate my 6 new vargheists I got painted up.

• VLoZD
• Vampire Lord
• 4x5 Blood Knights
• 2x6 Vargheists

1980/2000

The list is lacking something cheap like bat swarms, doesn't have  that very useful extra command point and I'm kinda screwed if one of the hero-only scenarios show up but there's a lot of scary things running around here. 🧛‍♀️

I like it - what Bloodline? This is sort of screaming Swift Death in my head... if it gets there quickly enough there's going to be some blood on the ground!

[AoS 2 - Soulblight Discussion]

2 hours ago, Charlo said:

A single Vampire lord can be used to just sit on an objective too, or fly around harassing war machines very effectively.

There’s always a Vampire Lord in my LoB, as +1 attack on a unit of 30 Grimghast Reapers means ~90 (quality!) attacks. Here, a VL is only useful, in my opinion, when buffing big (i.e. > 10) units of Blood Knights.

I have to say, I almost always end up playing LoB instead of SoulBlight these days... it’s real hard to do better than the +1 attack on both VLoZDs and Blood Knights together with Endless Legions... I feel we need more love to really shine, but then again I might be missing something...

[Court of Nulahmia list help]

10 hours ago, ZLee Syn said:

Look above in this thread. I have both orb and amulet.

My dragons are both in batalion so 18 move near palanquin. 

Lance and over 2 turns is statisticaly exactly the same as sword over 2 turns.

The reason why lance is that much better to burst something is that it is reliable 3 damage. And If you need that burst then reliable is much better

I’m referring to  @Glemcik list, not yours!

Re: the 18” movement, thanks for clarifying (this tells you how often I run this Battalion, which is to say never I am afraid).

Lance equal to sword over two turns (turns or rounds?)... it really depends on what happens in those turns/rounds. I’m not going to argue further about this one, the numbers are there for people to make their choice - taking the lance might be a valid one for some, I just so happen to opt towards what’s most useful for my play style (i.e. VLoZDs that get stuck in combat more often / for longer than just one charge per battleround).

[Heal a number of wounds, or return a number of slain models]

On 12/24/2019 at 7:33 AM, XReN said:

Yes, usually those abilities worded the way you can either return models with full wounds or heal wounds allocated, but never both. Like you can't heal a Black Knight that had 1 wound allocated to him and ressurect another one with 1 use of Arkhan's ability.

Indeed - which makes multi-wounds models so much trickier to deal with if you can heal/return D3  worth of wounds instead of flat 3 (very common across many Death armies). Say, units containing 1-wound models are probably your best pick when leveraging a "regular" Deathly Invocation (D3 back), but if you are returing flat 3 (e.g. via Arkhan), I'd consider Spirit Hosts instead (3 wounds / model).

[AoS 2 - Soulblight Discussion]

6 hours ago, Charlo said:

I can also attest to BKs in 5s as opposed to 10s. They're just too unwieldy. While it's nice to get a big Vampire CA on a unit of ten I find 5 is more than enough for most jobs. 

Yep - one more in favour of 5-man units of BKs! Unless you need the most massive punch of them all, there are so many advantages... easier to fit on a single piece of terrain (cover!), easier to get all of them in combat even when targeting small characters,  practically immune to bravery, offering much more board control (assuming you are going to split bigger units into 5-man ones...) and more threats, as even "only" 5 BKs are still something your opponent has to deal with (no one wants to get charged by them...). They have been working great for me - only once or twice I wished I had 10 (against some massive FEC units, mostly). I only managed to convert 10 (took me a very long while...) but if ever we get new plastic kits I am going to buy some 30 more, I kid you not...

[Court of Nulahmia list help]

On 12/23/2019 at 7:48 AM, Glemcik said:

Are you sure Sword is better then lance? 3 dmg after charge should be better then d3 but i have never analized this.

and...

41 minutes ago, ZLee Syn said:

In legion of blood, lance and sword have same damage output over 2 turns. With 18 move you should be charging. Sword is bettet in 3rd turn but lance allows you to blow targets in 1 turn. Which helps especialy with orb of enchantment. 

(Why a 18" move? 14" at most, I believe, 19" if casting Amethystine Pinions?). Right, sword or lance? Some numbers below. This is the average damage (as the rend is identical, I am assuming no save rolls) for lance and sword, on the charge or not, and applying or not the VLoZD's CA (re-roll all failed hits). I am obviously assuming we are talking LoB (+1 attack for both lance and sword). Here we go...

Spoiler

 

** Lance

Lance - no charge: 3.56

Lance - no charge | CA: 4.74

Lance - charge: 5.33

Lance - charge | CA: 7.11

** Sword

Sword: 4.44

Sword | CA: 5.93

 

Thus, on average the lance deals 0.89 dmg more than the sword on the charge, and 0.88 dmg less than the sword if you did not charge - a rather even gap. A similarly even gap holds when activating the VLoZD CA: the lance deals 1.18 dmg more than the sword on the charge, and 1.19 dmg less if you did not charge. So, which one is better? If you are confident you can obliterate everything you touch with your VLoZD in one go, the lance is better. However, note that being able to wipe down (tough and/or numerous) units in one go is not actually down to whether you pick lance or sword... 0.89 dmg more is nothing compare the overall boost given by the CA, which affects all your melee attacks, dragon's included. That makes for differences (between with or without the CA) of the order of 6 dmg (6.15 with the sword). Having said that, I tend to use my VLoZDs to target especially nasty units: yes, they can delete stuff on the charge, but in most cases is a question of a couple of turns (note that your CA stays active until your next hero phase). That is, in my experience the number of times I charge something with my VLoZDs is less than the number of combat phases I have to go through when I did not charge: statistically speaking, in your opponent's turn you can't charge anyway, and you tend to get quite a lot of stuff thrown at you, hence I'd advocate the sword is better than the lance, at least for a "regular" VLoZD. If you intend to play a very offensive LoB VLoZD (offensive command trait+ offensive artefact) that has higher chances to delete almost everything in one go, maybe the lance would be better (I usually tend to play very defensive VLoDZs, e.g. Aura of Dark Majesty + Etheral Amulet or Gryph-Feather Charm), but your opponent will still probably charge you in their turns. 

 

On 12/23/2019 at 7:48 AM, Glemcik said:

Are you sure 5 Blood Knights can works? I always thought i need 10 or more.  

This is a good one... yes, a unit of 5 BKs will work, but they'll have to work in a very different way compared to a unit of 10 BKs. 5 BKs can easily fit onto a single piece of terrain (cover is huge for them, especially if standing against no-rend attack... 2+ saves!!!), can easily get into combat even against small units and/or heroes, are basically immune to bravery and offer more board control and double the threat (assuming you'll be splitting a unit of 10 into two units of 5). On the other hand, 10 BKs will make the most of your CAs (once more, the VLoZD is fantastic on them, and you if you can manage both the VLoZD and the VL CAs... that's beyond nasty on a unit of 10 - nothing can stand in their way!), will be very hard to remove as a whole, and on average pack a massive, massive punch. Whether you want two units of 5 or one unit of 10 (a single unit of 5 has its place but meh...) depends on the list you are running. Do you have two very mobile heroes that can buff them, say, two VLoZDs? I'd run run two units of 5 - these guys need support (deathless spirit is key) and a VLoZDs needs their support as well! Do you have just one support character for them? One unit of 10 it is, I'd say. Final thought: they don't fly, but Amethystine Pinions can make them fly and have them moving 15". With their 6" guaranteed charge (banner!), you are 100% sure to wrack whatever stands a whopping 21" ahead of you - wow. 12 

 

On 12/23/2019 at 7:48 AM, Glemcik said:

My idea here was use SH to guard neferata,

I share your love for SHs, but I only run them in pure Nighthaunt (where the command trait brings D3 summonable models back each hero phase), as bringing them back via either Deathly Invocation and Gravesites is just too much of a gamble.

 

2 hours ago, ZLee Syn said:

Which helps especialy with orb of enchantment. 

Unless you have a very specific reason to run the Orb (e.g. knowing that you'll be facing a Ghoul King on a Royal Terrorgheist or uber-nasty things such as a certain Gotrek), I find the Ethereal Amulet to be one of the best choices out there for our VLoZDs - they last a very long time even in fairly dodgy situations...

 

On 12/23/2019 at 7:48 AM, Glemcik said:

Attack with one dragon with dark mist on side  and if brooch works give him extra attack from CA.

Two gambles in here... you have to cast dark mist and roll a 5+ for the Brooch. Even in that case, your VLoZD will be unsupported, in that everything that wants to get to him will - and sometimes is just too many dice. VLoZD + 5 BKs would make for a much more effective hammer...

Hope this makes sense! Again, I have to say I don't dig this battalion very much, but within the boundaries of it I think your list make sense. At the end, a lot of list building is about personal preference after all!

[The Dread Double turn]

7 minutes ago, stratigo said:

I have to ask, why do you and people in general here insist 40k must be an inferior product? It always feels like tribal chest beating to slag off the terrible other who dares to play that other game

I play both, and I like them both. They're different games, and I think that's a good thing: it wouldn't be so great to simply swap e.g. Space Marines for Stormcast Eternal and that's it, I enjoy the different mechanics - not just the absence or not of the double turn. Some AoS peculiarities, including the possibility of a double turn, I personally find "better" than 40 K, some others (40 K stratagems are more interesting than command abilities [very personal opinion] and tactical objectives via cards are fantastic fun... the list goes on) I think are "better" in 40 K compared to AoS. Making comparisons is always a bit silly (pears with pears and apples with apples...), I brought in 40 K just to highlight how good the double turn is (again, in my very personal opinion), that's all!

[AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion]

2 minutes ago, Mordread said:

I can't find this in the rules. But thank you for your clarification.

It's in the Malign Sorcery book, which is very much a legal expansion to be used in matched play as well.

 

[AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion]

1 minute ago, Mordread said:

The gryph feather Charme is not  in the battletome. It is one of the territorys? What do you do if the battle Takes  Place in another territory?

Sorry for my english.

The Gryph-feather Charm is an Artefact of the Realms - each Realm (Ulgu, Hysh...) has a few of them. They can be found in the Malign Sorcery book. Once again, 1d4chan provides a concise rundown: https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Age_of_Sigmar/Tactics/Malign_Sorcery#Artefacts_Of_The_Realms 

The Realm where the battle is fought has nothing to do with the artefacts you pick: you can declare your army comes from a certain realm (in the case of the Gryph-feather Charm, the Realm of Ghur) and as such you get access to the Artefacts of the Realm of Ghur. This option is built in both the Azyr app and the Warscroll Builder. The spells of the Realm (as well as the Realms' features and such) are bound to the where the battle take place, but the choice of the Artefacts of the Realm is not - obviously, you can only select one Realm. That is, your army can come from Ghur, but not from Ghur and e.g. Hysh as well (that'd give you access to too powerful combos...). However, you still have access to the Artefacts from your Battletome. Hence, picking, say, the Balefire Blade (Nighthaunt Battletome) and the Gryph-feather Charm (from Ghur) is perfectly ok - you just have to declare your army comes from Ghur.

[AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion]

Just now, Mordread said:

 Thank you for your Help. I understand your Problems with my lists. I am Not playing in a super competative Group. 

I have no Grmghast Reapers because I like the other models more. I will then take the Banshees and use Lady O Not from the underworld and put her so in the Table. Thank you.

The arteefacts I use are good?

They're good - I would take none of the two, though.

The Beacon of Nagashizzar only comes into play when you actually manage to cast Spectral Lure (regularly on a 6+). I prefer to take the Wychlight Lantern (+1 to cast): + 11% chance of successfuly cast not only Spectral Lure but Shademist as well. By the way, Shademist is insanely good when it does go off. - excellent choice.

The Pendant of the Fell Wind suffers from the usual wholly within 12" issue: usually you can only apply the +3 to move on one unit only. In addition, your army is not too slow, and +3 is not life-changing. My favourite picks within the Nighthaunt stuff are the Midnight Tome (because casting is important!) and the Balefire Blade (+1 damage) on a KoS.

The Gryph-feather Charm is my favourite artefact for our Nighthaunt squishy characters and it's another viable choice.

You'll find that the choice of artefacts is a very subjective thing, though - I'm sure some more people would have some good alternative suggestions!

 

 

[AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion]

13 hours ago, Nogginnocker said:

This is why I still favor VL over KoSoS. Deathly invocations and a within 15” (compared to wholly within 12”) range for Blood Feast, which lasts until your next hero phase (compared to just that phase with KoSoS). I had previously thought that you could also spam Blood Feast, since there are no restrictions on the warscroll from GW’s website. However, the app and the LoL errata does have the same added language as KoSoS. So, that’s a bummer. They should really update the warscroll on their website. I recognize you are sacrificing the NH hero-based allegiance abilities such as Deathless Spirits and you also can’t equip it with an artifact, but the free summoning is hard for me to pass up.

100% agree. The beauty of the VL CA is that it gets activated in the hero phase, which means that you don't really care about the fact that your VL is very very squishy indeed (4+ rendable and no Deathless Spirits) : just put him behind a piece of terrain (tiny model!) and bless your massive unit from a mighty 15" distance (thank you Nagash for the lack of the bloody wholly within keyword). He doesn't need to be into the thick of the combat at all, while the KoSoS usually doesn't last very long because of the combination of wholly within and the combat phase activation. Plus:

• The VL is still very fast (you should always get yourself a Flying Horror with a 10" base movement - costs nothing!)
• As opposed to the KoSoS, this vampiric lad is a caster. Sure, he doesn't get a pick from the Nighthaunt spells, but we have seen more and more tournaments adopting the Spells of the Realms (some of them are amazing), so having yet another caster for free is really good value. 

Almost all my Nighthaunt lists have a VL!

[AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion]

2 hours ago, Mordread said:

Can you please take a Look At the Who lists, and give me a Feedback. I have never Played nighthaunt bevore. Especially the artefacts.

Strategy is that Lady O pops up with the hexwraiths  behind the enemy lines. In my first round. She  is in the underworld. The Rest of the army will be set up on the battlefield to Grind  through the enemy.

If you're opponent is a decent player and/or he has played Nighthaunt before, he'll make sure you won't be able to drop Lady Olynder and the Hexwraiths (or indeed, anything else) anywhere on the board where you can do stuff (i.e. kill things or get objectives). Playing Nighthaunt as a turn 1 alpha strike army never worked for me, because:

• Experience players would pepper the board with screens, so that your  alpha strike becomes basically useless even if everything goes just as planned.
• You still need the charges to go off. I see you have included the Cogs in your lists, wich helps with that (although rolling a 7+ is very much your average, which is not very reliable a statistics to build an alhpa strike upon), but I see no Reikenor: the Cogs cast on a 7+, which again is right your average roll - not great.
• Let's assume your opponent deploys in a rather silly manner, leaving many important units exposed. Let's assume you cast the Cogs on a 7+, and let's also assume you made your 7+ charges with both Olynder and the Hexwraiths. What would typically happen is that you'd fail to inflict sufficient damage, even with a double turn, to justify the alpha strike. You'll risk your precious Dolorous Guard to be wiped out real soon, and Olynder with it.

From the Underworld they Come (as well as Spectral Summons) is not especially great a strategy to wipe your opponent's units out: it allows you to control the board, that's the real strength. Even with the cogs, very rarely you'll manage to do enough damage to displace even remotely tanky units. Ten Bladegheists, buffed, upon a 10+ charge can do work, but you have to consider that as a bonus - not something to build your list around.

I personally think that the Dolorous Guard is great to grant e.g. Olynder a phenomenal staying power as an objective holder. Let them come to you and welcome them with some mortal wounds. This "OlynderBomb" that people have been talking about might very well work in an offensive fashion, but you'll need to commit way more than just the two units of Hexwraiths to it to make it worth your points!

Having said that, your lists are both viable in my opinion. My preference would be List 1, as I'm not a big fan of the Black Coach: one model, not a hero, some synergies but really shining in the fourth/fifth battleround only (by then, it's usually too late for our flimsy ghosts...), very little damage output... it's true that it came down in points, but more bodies are still better in my opinion.

Lastly: I'd consider swapping the Banshees and the Harridans with Grimghast Reapers - easily the best anti-horde unit in the game. If you drop Banshees, Harridans and Cogs you can get yourself 30 Reapers - a mightily scary Anvil. Pair it up with a ~27-wound Olynder and watch your opponent wasting in vain all their good units on that wall of ghastly scythes.

[New to Nighthaunt - First List and help with strategy..?!?]

On 12/20/2019 at 6:07 PM, PALFORLIFE said:

as I run with some very cut throat players that only bring the cheesey and hardest of list.

Gah - not nice... sign up for some tournament instead, you'll find that only a very small fraction of the players bring the absolute filth.

On 12/20/2019 at 6:07 PM, PALFORLIFE said:

*Oh and was playing this as Legion of Grief..

Do you want to stick with LoG or do you want to try and go Nighthaunt? That's quite the difference...

If this is LoG, then I'd say this is a pretty solid list: I'd put a Gryph-feather charm on your Dreadblade, though, as the last thing you want is having him off the board at any point in time (we need those big units to come back!). You already have the Craven + the extra CP anyway, that should be enough...

I'm not an expert with respect to OBRs, but I'd reckon that attrition can work if you throw your big units in rather aggressively, as long as you make sure they can come back for 1 CP. Keep your Dreadblade alive - if this was Nighthaunt, I'd suggest to swap the Rasps for Spirit Hosts (+ Spectral Summons and Ruler of the Spirit Hosts for amazing mobility and decent staying power), but Nighthaunt against OBRs... I don't think they have the damage it takes to bring them down quickly enough. It might be battleplan-dependent, of course, but I'd stick with LoG if I were you.

And it pains me to say this, as I like playing Nighthaunt much more than LoB, but the benefits of the Gravesites are hard to acknowledge against both high-damage or high-resiliance armies such as OBRs.

Last thought: no Spirit Torment?! This Bladegheists need one. Your KoS's buffs are great, but remember, they cost a CP per combat phase - a hefty price, while the ST let's you re-roll all failed hits for free at any point in time. Massive.

Hope this helps!

[Court of Nulahmia list help]

On 12/21/2019 at 2:17 PM, Glemcik said:

What do you think about this list? Do you see any chances for this idea?

Allegiance: Legion of Blood
Mortal Realm: Hysh
Bloodseeker Palanquin (300)
- Lore of the Vampires: Amaranthine Orb
Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon (440)
- Deathlance & Shield & Chalice
- Artefact: Orb of Enchantment
- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference
Vampire Lord (140)
- Mount: Nightmare
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch
- Lore of the Vampires: Spirit Gale
Neferata Mortarch of Blood (340)
- General
- Lore of the Dead: Overwhelming Dread (Deathmages)
10 x Chainrasp Horde (80)
5 x Dire Wolves (70)
5 x Dire Wolves (70)
9 x Spirit Hosts (360)
Court of Nulahmia (150)
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 99
 

A few thoughts:

• The Sword is better than the Lance on your VLoZD - not just my personal opinion, there are quite a few threads about this.
• With the Battalion in, your board presence is not very strong. You have one heavy hitter (the VLoZD), 3 screens (dogd and Rasps) and a unit of SHs (excellent choice to sit on an objective close do Nef). However, SHs are very difficult to bring back via both Gravesites and Deathly invocation. 
• What is your Vampire Lord on foot doing? You don't have a unit that can make good use of his CA, and he is useless in melee, dying very quickly. I'd consider removing him. 140 Pts + 50 pts (you don't need two extra CPs) gives you room to add some more bodies in. Sure, you'd like an extra hero to put an extra artefact on... but it's not worth it! That's why I don't like this battalion...
• No Blood Knights?! Said 190 points + changing the Rasps for a third unit of wolves gives you the 200 pts you need for a unit of 5. They are AWESOME if played well.
• The Orb of Enchantment is very situational. The Ethereal Amulet or the Gryph-feather charm are much more reliable in keeping your precious VLoZD alive.
• You have a decent hammer with Nef+SHs (albeit again, it's difficult to bring them back...) but your hammer lacks bodies - you need bodies to score objectives, and this list doesn't have enough. Crucially, you don't have the offensive power to wipe out your opponent's army either, so what's likely to happen is that your opponent would simply avoid engaging with Nef and bog down your VLoZD until he's gone, all the while scoring objectives.

I thnk it's really difficult to make this Battalion work... +1 CP and artefact (which often you don't now where to put!) for a squishy Nef as general as opposed to a VloZD, the Palanquin in (which I don't like at all) and not much space to bring in the units you need to ensure some form of board control.

[Will we see an updated LoN Battletome in 2020?]

21 hours ago, KK9T said:

I'd love to see Soulblight splinter away from Nagash under Mannfred and Neferata. They could do a SC box with a new mounted Vampire Lord, new Blood Knights and Soulblight foot soldiers much like the new Slaves to Darkness SC box. Perhaps some bat monsters and a Nosferatu looking caster hero.

That'd be the dream... I'd buy the whole lot in one sec, competitive or not!

[AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion]

3 minutes ago, EnixLHQ said:

I'm not aware of any battle plan that specifically says a retreating unit can't claim an objective.

Places of Arcane Power is one example - but it’s the only one I can think about as of now, so it might be the only one... don’t have the GHB2019 at hand as we speak...