ilaxu 'Minute'
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Posts posted by ilaxu 'Minute'
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3 minutes ago, Duke of Gisoreux said:
Just wanted to share this picture of my rebased Bretonnian force:
I even converted a Bretonnian Lord on Dragon to be used as a Dragonlord:
All I can say is that is amazing! Well done!
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So I'm just curious, how many people on here are a part of this facebook group? (Bretonnia / Kingdom of Equitaine)
I've found it to be really inspiring and have seen some really nice model work on the page.https://www.facebook.com/groups/2459572376/?epa=SEARCH_BOX
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BY THE LADIES GRACE, IT'S STARTING TO HAPPEN!
Can't tell I'm excited more than a Noise Marine on Slaaneshmas? In that case, allow me to be absolutely blunt. I AM HYPED! My amazing partner has finally received the first shipment of Bretonnians I sent her for painting and Knight Numero Uno has just been completed. (Well, mostly.) And I'm in love.
He doesn't have a shield at current, but after seeing how he looks I'm certainly not complaining~
Yes I know that she painted part of the barding like the horses neck, honestly I'm okay with it though. As long as she doesn't do that to all of them...
No Coat of Arms yet but her hands are playing up today so she wasn't able to freehand. I look forward to a time when she is able to add some freehand designs though! Also, can we just appreciate how nice that Wine Red Scabbard is~
I love the little Fleur De Lis on the Lances~ And for that matter, the 'Eavy Metal Lances are great too.
And to round it off, I love the darkened armour effect and the look of the fabrics...
Is it bad to say that this is making me love my partner even more? Because I am sooooooo happy at the moment~
I need to treat her to something... But I'm broke. Daaaaaaamn it.
Well, in the meantime all I can say is,
FOR ZE LADY!~ilaxu
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So I've been thinking about how I want to theme my army visually recently and that's inspired me to go and have a read over the lore behind Bretonnia a bit. And after looking through, honestly I still have to say I'm heavily drawn towards Mousillon.
But what I wanted to ask is what do others find most interesting about Fair Bretonnia? What parts of the lore appeal to you most, be they concepts, characters or events.
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2 hours ago, Sir Valiant de Quenelles said:
Could you please provide some examples of both cases?
I had on mind the way to convert foot knights (Or like in Total War Warhammer: Foot Squires) and it could be interesting know best units to do it.
Some common options:
Spellcasters:
Archmage on Horse (Eldritch Council) - 18" Aura of 6+ Ignore Wounds
Amber Battlemage (Collegiate Arcanum) - +1 to Wound Rolls
Infantry:
Freeguild Guards (Freeguild) - Men-At-Arms Replacement
Freeguild Archers (Freeguild) - Peasant Bowmen Replacement
Freeguild Greatswords (Freeguild) - Foot Squires (Fictional)
Others:
Demigryph Knights (Freeguild) - Alternative Heavy Cavalry
Freeguild General (Freeguild) - Buffing Freeguild Units.-
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5 hours ago, oscisi said:
To answer the question posed by @ilaxu 'Minute', however, I will actually not be running any of these mixed lists for the simple reason that I’m a die hard fan and a bit obsessive about consistency. But please note that this is my personal preference and that I have nothing against people with other views on it.
Most likely I will stick with the puritan lists myself but I at least want to experiment with them and see how they play out. The only reason I'm really considering it is because of how overpriced the Peasants are considering their atrocious performance at their price points, especially when compared to their Freeguild counterparts..
5 hours ago, Dynas said:Hello
Old Duke here. I ran a Royal Air Force list RAF at the end of 8th. With the new book coming out my FLGS owner said I should look into AoS. Any love given to Bret's? I haven't really looked/watched any of the YouTube reviews as they are all really long.
Are Bret's even viable? What are the "must pick units?"
The Lady welcomes you with open arms.
Sadly the Bretonnians have been at rather the short end of the stick for AoS but we aren't completely out of the running yet. As previously mentioned, the King on Hippogryph is a massive Hero/Monster killer and the Enchantress/Grail Knights are two of the nastiest units at your disposal when working together.
When it comes to modern Bretonnian lists there are a few factors to consider.
Synergy: Most of the Knights (except Pegasus Knights) can gain re-rolls when a certain condition is met. As such it is almost always advisable to build your list with these in mind. Most of the Heroes also have buffs they grant to nearby units.
Spellcasting: Bretonnian armies almost REQUIRE you to have spell casters. The more buff spells you can put onto your Knights, the more enemies you can kill. and the longer you'll last.
Peasants: You'll mostly want to avoid them. Bowmen are so heavily overpriced that they may as well be worthless. Grail Pilgrims are okay but small numbers doesn't do them any favours. Men-At-Arms are probably the most useful as a tar pit unit but you need the King near them. Trebuchets are good models but again, overpriced so don't rely on them.
Allies: Getting extra buff applying spellcasters and some cheap but effective infantry isn't a bad idea.
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3 hours ago, Sir Valiant de Quenelles said:
I'm pretty close to have my first unit of demigryphs conversioned completed.
For today, the musician!
That's a great model and a creative idea!
Those models are Gryphounds aren't they?-
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3 hours ago, oscisi said:
Thanks for sharing! So I guess it will be quite hard to include 4 mercenary units in your army. Unless someone is planning to do a men-at-arms horde army (not recommended!!
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Freeguild Infantry Horde + Bretonnian Cavalry + Mercenary Blob?
In other news I've sent off my first lot of models with the partner for painting. I hope she does a good job with them. So far there are 3 Bretonnian Knights, 1 Pegasus Knight, 1 Converted Empire Knight and 2 Peasant Banner Bearers on their way to pretty coloured status.
Partner is going to trial out something a bit different for the Pegasus wings as well. She wants to see if she can get a slight hint of a rainbow hue in the end of the feathers for the wing.13 hours ago, Sir Valiant de Quenelles said:Interesting units that could potentially help? Demigryphs are 130 now
Demigryph Knights are definitely a popular choice as they considerably cheaper and more cost effective than the basic Bretonnian cavalry units. Having one or two units of them in a list is by no means a bad thing.
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7 minutes ago, Duke of Gisoreux said:
Allegiance: Hammerhal
Mortal Realm: UlguLeaders
King on Hippogryph (400)
- General
- Trait: Master of Defense
- Artefact: Sword of Judgement
[average damage: 9.03 (9.77 charge, 16.31 Monster/Hero, 21.13 charge + Monster/Hero), effective wounds: 61.43]
Enchantress (160)
[average damage: 1.32, effective wounds: 10.50]
Damsel (100)
[average damage: N/A, effective wounds: 6.30]
Archmage (100)
[average damage: N/A, effective wounds: 6.60]
Freeguild General (100)
- Shield & Lance
[average damage: 1.58 (2.25 charge), effective wounds: 15.75]Battleline
10 x Freeguild Guard (80)
- Swords and Shields
[average damage: 1.38, effective wounds: 25.20]
10 x Freeguild Guard (80)
- Swords and Shields
[average damage: 1.38, effective wounds: 25.20]
10 x Freeguild Guard (80)
- Swords and Shields
[average damage: 1.38, effective wounds: 25.20]Units
5 x Blood Knights (200)
- Mercenaries
[average damage: 5.08 (9.75 charge), effective wounds: 70.88]
5 x Blood Knights (200)
- Mercenaries
[average damage: 5.08 (9.75 charge), effective wounds: 70.88]
3 x Demigryph Knights (130)
- Lance and Sword
[average damage: 6.22 (4.83 charge), effective wounds: 30.24]
3 x Demigryph Knights (130)
- Lance and Sword
[average damage: 6.22 (4.83 charge), effective wounds: 30.24]
3 x Demigryph Knights (130)
- Lance and Sword
[average damage: 6.22 (4.83 charge), effective wounds: 30.24]Total: 1890 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 400 / 400
Wounds: 126Total average damage: 49.98 (59.42 charge)
Total effective wounds: 408.65Overall army rating: 324.3
The list deals less damage than yours, but is much more durable (408.65 effective wounds).
I don't think it's a legal list though is it? My understanding was the the Blood Knight Mercenaries required a Blood Knight Unit + a Vampire Lord on Nightmare. Or is that only optional?
Also at that point, I think the need for an Enchantress and Damsel basically goes away as the only model they can buff is the King, who can frankly manage without a pair of dedicated casters following him around. At the least the Enchantress is surplus to requirements as the King doesn't need the +1 to hit, she doesn't give him re-rolls and she doesn't have a passive heal for him either.
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On a different note, this has raised a bit of a question. What do people prefer from a 'Bretonnian' army. The Glass Cannon style of hit hard hit fast that pure Bretonnian lists tend to emphasise, or the hybrid lists that supplement the sheer destructive power of the Bretonnians on the charge with some tanky line holders such as the Demigryph Knights, Blood Knights or even massed Skeleton blobs.
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Now for a lore question, or rather a series of them. We now have a host of 8 (I've heard the number 10 mentioned though so perhaps more???) mercenary warbands available for players to add to their faction. With this in mind, which of them do you think would feasibly end up fighting alongside a Bretonnian Warband and why? For clarities sake here is the list:
Sons of the Lichemaster: Necromancer + Skeletons & Zombies.
Grugg Brothers: Up to 3 Giants.
Order of the Blood Drenched Rose: Vampire Lord + Blood Knights
Nimyard's Rough Riders: Pistoliers + Freeguild General & Outriders.
The Blacksmoke Battery: 1-3 Cannons + a Gyrocopter & Master Engineer.
Skroug's Managerie: Giant + Chaos Spawn
Rampagers: 1-3 Maurader Units + Chieftan or WarQueen.
The Gutstuffers: Ogre Firebelly + 1-3 Ogre Maneaters Units.For my own two cents, I'll throw in that Sons of the Lichemaster & Order of the Blood Drenched Rose both make a lot of sense when considering old Mousillon.
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32 minutes ago, Lightbox said:
20 grail knights for the big oof!
As someone who loves demigryph knights this looks like a list I'd be interested in trying out! Do let us know whether you get to test it out Ilaxu.I'm considering it since I've got the black contrast and some reds... though the real question is do I try and get some orange and do proper Mousillon scheme or go with my original idea of black and red. (Either way my brets will also make fine blood knight stand-ins)
If I end up trialling that monstrosity of a list then I think it's either going to be godly or it will crumble and die in a heartbeat.
As for paints, be original and do your planned Black and Red scheme. You already have the supplies after all and it'll look good either way.
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9 hours ago, Duke of Gisoreux said:
I think I would use Bretonnian Knights (Knights of the Realm for example) to proxy them, although I have the required amount of Demigryph models.
Hmmm, this might be an option. Have you done anything modelling wise to display the difference?
If I were to do this then I think I'd double base them, having a pair of knights represent one of the Demigryph Knights for the sake of clarity.
SpoilerConceptual Heavy Hitters List
Order: Hammerhal: Ulgu
King on Hippogryph 400
-General
-Legendary Fighter
-Sword of Judgement
Enchantress 160
Archmage on Aelven Steed 10010 x Freeguild Archers 100
10 x Freeguild Archers 100
10 x Freeguild Archers 100
3 x Demigryph Knights with Lances 130
3 x Demigryph Knights with Lances 130
10 x Grail Knights 360
10 x Grail Knights 360
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@Duke of Gisoreux I must admit that you've made a nasty looking force. Only downside is how many Demigryph Knights one needs to make up the army.
Although based on what you have so far it's a 1,980 point list and CP now ost 50 points instead of being granted for every 50 points below the limit.
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1 minute ago, oscisi said:
Hey guys!
I just watched Ash at GMG read through all the point changes. My beloved Chronomantic Cogs were increased from 60 to 80 points (it’s understandable but still a shame for me, since I was the only one in the local competitive scene who was using it).
According to Ash all things legacy were kept the same in terms of point values. Oh well. The good news is that the GHB 2019 will provide us with even more options for command points, which is an area where Bretonnia was lacking. I’ll keep my eyes peeled for any other interesting news about this
May the Lady save us in this time of dire news.
On an entirely different note, is anyone thinking about trying out the contrast paints for Bretonnians? I'm considering giving it a shot.
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8 minutes ago, Duke of Gisoreux said:
5 Questing Knights: 4.51 / 7.77 (Monster) / 5.74 (King + charge) / 9.81 (King + charge + Monster)
5 Grail Knights: 3.47 / 7.18 (charge) / 5.69 (Daemon/Death) / 10.14 (charge + Daemon/Death) / 4.47 (Enchantress) / 8.79 (Enchantress + charge) / 7.06 (Enchantress + Daemon/Death) / 12.25 (Enchantress + charge + Daemon/Death) / 9.07 (King + charge) / 12.78 (King + charge + Daemon/Death) / 11.14 (King + Enchantress + charge) / 15.46 (King + Enchantress + charge + Daemon/Death)
10 Mounted Yeomen: 4.29I must admit to being not entirely sure where I've gone wrong for the revised calculations I've done. Can you see the errors in these? I've redone my original calculations and edited out some of the mistakes I found but my numbers are still a little off for the Grail Knights and Mounted Yeomen and I don't think that can be attributed to rounding. (Also I realised I forgot the Rend -1 on the Greatblades, hence why the Values were low for the Questing Knights.)
Mounted Yeomen:Spoiler10 Mounted Yeomen:
Attacks:
11x Spear. 4+ Hit. 4+ Wound. Rend 0. Damage 1.
20x Palfrey. 4+ Hit. 5+ Wound. Rend 0. Damage 1.
Hits:
5.5 Spear Hits
10 Palfrey Hits.
Wounds:
2.75 Spear Wounds.
3.34 Palfrey Hits.
Damage vs 4+ Save:
1.38 Spear Damage
1.67 Palfrey Damage
Total: 3.05 DamageGrail Knights:
Spoiler5 Grail Knights:
Attacks:
10x Pendant Lance. 3+ Hit. 3+ Wound. Rend -1. Damage 2.
10x Warhorse. 4+ Hit. 4+ Wound. Rend 0. Damage 1.
Hits:
6.67 Pendant Lance Hits. [8.94 with with Enchantress]
5 Warhorse Hits. [7.5 with Enchantress]
Wounds:
4.47 Pendant Lance Wounds. [5.96 with Enchantress]
2.5 Warhorse Wounds. [3.75 with Enchantress]
Damage:
5.96 Pendant Lance Damage. [7.95 with Enchantress]
1.25 Warhorse Wounds. [1.88 with Enchantress]
Total: 7.21 Damage. [9.83 with Enchantress]Questing Knights:
Spoiler5 Questing Knights:
Attacks:
11x Greatblades. 3+ Hit. 3+ Wound. Rend -1. Damage 1.
10 x Warhorse. 4+ Hit. 4+ Wound. Rend 0. Damage 1.
Hits:
7.34 Greatblade Hits.
5 Warhorse Hits.
Wounds:
4.89 Greatblade Wounds.
2.5 Warhorse Wounds.
Damage:
3.26 Greatblade Damage. [6.52 vs Monsters]
1.25 Warhorse Damage.
Total: 4.51 Damage. [7.77 vs Monsters] -
2 minutes ago, Duke of Gisoreux said:
I am sorry, but it seems your durability numbers are wrong.
8 Knight Errant or Knights of the Realm have 32 Effective Wounds (38.4 on the charge)
5 Questing Knights or Grail Knights have 20 Effective Wounds (24 on the charge)
3 Pegasus Knights have 24 Effective Wounds (28.8 on the charge)
10 Mounted Yeomen have 24 Effective Wounds (24.83 on the charge)
A 4+ save effectively doubles the amount of wounds as you save wounds half of the time. A 5+ save adds 50% to the wounds and a 6+ save adds 20%.- Save 6+: 120% Effective Wounds
- Save 5+: 150% Effective Wounds
- Save 4+: 200% Effective Wounds
- Save 3+: 300% Effective Wounds
- Save 2+: 600% Effective Wounds
With rerolling 1s it would be:
- Save 6+: 124% Effective Wounds
- Save 5+: 164% Effective Wounds
- Save 4+: 240% Effective Wounds
- Save 3+: 450% Effective Wounds
- Save 2+: 3600% Effective Wounds
With rerolling all fails it would be:
- Save 6+: 144% Effective Wounds
- Save 5+: 225% Effective Wounds
- Save 4+: 400% Effective Wounds
- Save 3+: 900% Effective Wounds
- Save 2+: 3600% Effective Wounds
No need to be sorry, it was my mistake for not thinking the logic through thoroughly. Thank you for the clarification.
Were the offensive numbers alright or did I make mistakes there as well?
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Hey all, just been doing some MathHammer (Lady forgive me) and wanted to get my findings double checked. Can anyone see any flaws with what I've done so far?
I must admit I was a little surprised that the Knights of the Realm out performed the Knights Errant at base sizes but when you factor in something like Divine Favour then it makes sense I suppose as the damage potential would really spike up. Especially when you factor in the massed horse attacks.
Also, I finally understand why the Pegasus Knights are avoided so much... I mean, they even lose out to Mounted Yeomen for roughly the same points...
Cavalry unit damage output on the charge:Spoiler[8 Knights Errant] Offensive: Attacks: 9x Lance, 16x Horses. Average hits: 4.5/5.25 Lance Hits, 8/9.34 Horse Hits. Average Wounds on Charge: 3/3.5 Lance Wounds, 4/4.66 Horse Wounds. Damage vs 4+ Save: 3/3.5 Lance Damage, 2/2.33 Horse Damage. Summary: 5/5.83 Wounds on Charge for 200 Points. (Bonus within 18" of Damsel at turn start)
[8 Knights of the Realm] Offensive: Attacks: 9x Lance, 16x Horses. Average Hits: 6 Lance Hits, 8 Horse Hits. Average Wounds on Charge: 4 Lance Wounds, 4 Horse Wounds. Damage vs 4+ Save: 4 Lance Damage, 2 Horse Damage. Summary: 6 Wounds On Charge for 220 Points.
[5 Questing Knights] Offensive: Attacks: 11x Greatsword, 10x Horses. Average Hits: 7.33 Greatsword Hits, 5 Horse Hits. Average Wounds on Charge: 4.89 Greatsword Wounds, 2.5 Horse Wounds. Damage vs 4+ Save: 2.45/4.89 Greatsword Damage, 1.25 Horse Damage. Summary: 3.7/6.14 Wounds on Charge for 180 Points. (Bonus vs MONSTERS keyword)
[5 Grail Knights] Offensive: Attacks: 10x Lance, 10x Horses. Average Hits: 6.67/8.94 Lance Hits, 5/7.5 Horse Hits. Average Wounds on Charge: 4.47/5.96 Lance Wounds, 2.5/4.38 Horse Wounds. Damage vs 4+ Save: 5.96/7.95 Lance Damage, 1.25/2.19 Horse Damage. Summary: 7.21/10.14 Wounds on Charge for 180 Points. (Bonus within 10" of Enchantress) (Natural Rend -1)
[10 Mounted Yeomen] Offensive: Attacks: 11 Spears, 20 Horses. Average Hits: 5.5 Spear Hits, 10 Horses. Average Wounds on Charge: 2.75 Spear Wounds, 3.34 Horse Wounds. Damage vs 4+ Save: 1.38 Spear Damage, 1.67 Horse Damage. Summary: 3.05 Wounds on Charge for 200 Points.
[3 Pegasus Knights] Offensive: Attacks: 7x Lance, 6x Horses. Average Hits: 4.67 Lance Hits, 3 Horse Hits. Average Wounds on Charge: 3.11 Lance Wounds, 1.5 Horse Wounds. Damage vs 4+ Save: 3.11 Lance Damage, 0.75 Horse Damage. Summary: 3.86 Wounds on Charge for 180 Points.
Cavalry unit durability on the charge:
Spoiler[8 Knights Errant] Defensive: Wounds: 16. Save: 4+. Effective Wounds: 24/26 at Rend 0 for 200 Points. (Bonus Re-Rolls 1's on Charge)
[8 Knights of the Realm] Defensive: Wounds: 16. Save: 4+. Effective Wounds: 24/26 at Rend 0 for 220 Points. (Bonus Re-Rolls 1's on Charge)
[5 Questing Knights] Defensive: Wounds: 10. Save: 4+. Effective Wounds: 15/16.25 at Rend 0 for 180 Points. (Bonus Re-Rolls 1's on Charge)
[5 Grail Knights] Defensive: Wounds: 10. Save: 4+. Effective Wounds: 15/16.25 at Rend 0 for 180 Points. (Bonus Re-Rolls 1's on Charge)
[10 Mounted Yeomen] Defensive: Wounds: 20. Save: 6+. Effective Wounds: 23.34/23.99 at Rend 0 for 200 Points. (Bonus Re-Rolls 1's on Charge)
[3 Pegasus Knights] Defensive: Wounds: 12. Save: 4+. Effective Wounds: 18/19.5 at Rend 0 for 180 Points. (Bonus Re-Rolls 1's on Charge)
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5 hours ago, Lightbox said:
So I'd put together this so far recently using the ptg formula of 1 pick = 100 points (rounding to closest) which most ptg lists follow. Though brets may wanna be changed because they're overpriced when it comes to points. Hadn't done upgrades though so many have to pilfer ilaxus for my ptg campaign!
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bL8wFtZo_YkjZeGHTnXaLIM53wnqGX3TZZoeAkUR_HA/edit?usp=drivesdk
After going over your suggestions I've done an edit of mine to bring it a bit more in-line with the points system, however after some thought I've decided to change things up a bit. I've done an evaluation of points costs for models and worked out a rough idea of how each model type performs. I've then created new unit sizes to match the format, as the unit sizes that the Bretonnians tended to have were based on the boxset sizes, a factor which is considerably less important these days. These new unit sizes should allow for the list to have more flavour and flexibility, whilst also being well suited to a semi-narrative campaign like Path to Glory.
You can read the changes in the spoiler below, but to summarise I've set the units to work in increments of 5 instead of 6, 8 or 16 as seen in the pdf.
Knights of the Realm/Knights Errant: 5/10 a unit
Mounted Yeomen: 10 a unit
Peasant Bowmen/Men-At-Arms: 15 a unit
Grail Pilgrims: 10 a unit
I hope you like this revised version, hope it helps~ @Drakilian
Regards,
~ilaxuSpoilerBRETONNIAN PATH TO GLORY - AMATEUR CONCEPT VERSION 02 - ILAXU
GENERALS:
King on Hippogryph - 2 Units
Sacred Protector - 3 Units
Enchantress - 3 Units
Bretonnian Lord - 4 Units
Damsel - 5 Units
Noble Standard Bearer - 5 Units
Noble Champion - 5 UnitsPATH TO GLORY SPECIAL RULE: The amount of units in the army with the NOBILITY keyword may not exceed half of the total unit count rounded up. This does include the army general.
RETINUES:
Troops: [1 Pick]
1: 10 Grail Pilgrims
2: 15 Men-At-Arms
3: 10 Mounted Yeomen
4: 15 Peasant Bowmen
5: 5 Knights Errant
6: 5 Knights of the Realm
Elite Troops: [2 Picks OR 1 Pick & 1 GP]
1: 10 Knights Errant
2: 10 Knights of the Realm
3: 1 Field Trebuchet
4: 3 Pegasus Knights
5: 5 Questing Knights
6: 5 Grail Knights
Heroes: [1 Pick OR 1 GP]
1-4: Noble Champion OR Noble Standard Bearer OR Bretonnian Lord
5-6: Damsel
Mighty Heroes: [2 Picks OR 1 Pick & 1 GP]
1-4: Enchantress
5-6: Sacred ProtectorCHAMPION REWARDS:
2: Unfaithful to the Lady: Your general has eternally lost the Lady’s Blessing. They lose the Bretonnian/Nobility Keyword and can no longer use spells or abilities that use the Bretonnian/Nobility keyword in their description.
3: Scourge of the Realm: Your general gains +1 to hit and +1 to wound. Your general also loses the Nobility keyword from their description.
4: Guide of the Masses: Friendly units with the Peasantry keyword within 10” may re-roll rolls of 1 to hit. This is increased to rolls of 1 or 2 if under the effects of Divine Favour.
5: Blade of the Realm: Your general gains +1 attack with a single weapon.
6: Defender of the Masses: Friendly units with the Peasantry keyword within 10” may re-roll rolls of 1 for save. This is increased to rolls of 1 or 2 if under the effects of Mystic Shield.
7: Champion of Bretonnia: Your general gains +2 Bravery.
8: Defender of the Nobility: Friendly units with the Nobility keyword within 10” add +1 to their armour save when charging.
9: Shield of the Realm: Your general gains +1 to their save.
10: Guide of the Nobility: Friendly units with the Nobility keyword within 10” may re-roll failed charge rolls.
11: Guardian of the Realm: Your general gains +2 wounds.
12: Paragon of Virtue: Your general has gained the Lady’s Eternal Blessing. They will always count as being under the effect of the spells Divine Favour and Divine Blessing which cannot be dispelled by any means.RETINUE REWARDS:
1: Lost to the Lady: This unit may not roll from this table again.
2: Strength of Bretonnia: Once per game this unit may re-roll saves.
3: Steeds of Bretonnia: Once per game this unit may run and charge.
4: Sons of Bretonnia: Once per game this unit may add +1 to hit.
5: Saviours of Bretonnia: Once per game this unit may add +1 to wound.
6: Blessing of the Lady: The unit will always count as being under the effect of the spell Divine Blessing which cannot be dispelled by any means. -
2 hours ago, Drakilian said:
In other news, the local area here does seasonal path to glory leagues. The guy in charge is making me a Bretonnian chart. Any ideas for me to send his way?
So I may have decided to randomly accept this challenge and built an entire thing from scratch... I've set the Generals list along with starting units (As well as a conceptual additional limiter, which limits how many units with the Nobility keyword each general option can have in their starting roster), the unit pool for te Retinue and the Champion/Retinue rewards. See in spoiler
Hope this helps.
Regards,
The Amateur Game Designer,
~ilaxubelow
SpoilerBRETONNIAN PATH TO GLORY - AMATEUR CONCEPT VERSION 01 - ILAXU
GENERALS:
King on Hippogryph - 2 Units / 2 Nobility Max (General Not Included)
Sacred Protector - 3 Units / 2 Nobility Max (General Not Included)
Enchantress - 3 Units / 2 Nobility Max (General Not Included)
Bretonnian Lord - 4 Units / 3 Nobility Max (General Not Included)
Damsel - 5 Units / 2 Nobility Max (General Not Included)
Noble Standard Bearer - 5 Units / 3 Nobility Max (General Not Included)
Noble Champion - 6 Units / 1 Nobility Max (General Not Included)
RETINUES:
Troops:
1-2: 16 Men-At-Arms OR 16 Peasant Archers
3: 6 Grail Pilgrims OR 1 Field Trebuchet
4-5: 8 Knights Errant OR 8 Knights of the Realm OR 5 Mounted Yeomen
6: 5 Questing Knights OR 5 Grail Knights OR 3 Pegasus Knights
Heroes:
1-2: Noble Champion OR Noble Standard Bearer
4-5: Damsel OR Bretonnian Lord
6: Enchantress OR Sacred ProtectorCHAMPION REWARDS:
2: Unfaithful to the Lady: Your general has eternally lost the Lady’s Blessing. They lose the Bretonnian/Nobility Keyword and can no longer use spells or abilities that use the Bretonnian/Nobility keyword in their description.
3: Scourge of the Realm: Your general gains +1 to hit and +1 to wound. Your general also loses the Nobility keyword from their description.
4: Guide of the Masses: Friendly units with the Peasantry keyword within 10” may re-roll rolls of 1 to hit. This is increased to rolls of 1 or 2 if under the effects of Divine Favour.
5: Blade of the Realm: Your general gains +1 attack with a single weapon.
6: Defender of the Masses: Friendly units with the Peasantry keyword within 10” may re-roll rolls of 1 for save. This is increased to rolls of 1 or 2 if under the effects of Mystic Shield.
7: Champion of Bretonnia: Your general gains +2 Bravery.
8: Defender of the Nobility: Friendly units with the Nobility keyword within 10” add +1 to their armour save when charging.
9: Shield of the Realm: Your general gains +1 to their save.
10: Guide of the Nobility: Friendly units with the Nobility keyword within 10” may re-roll failed charge rolls.
11: Guardian of the Realm: Your general gains +2 wounds.
12: Paragon of Virtue: Your general has gained the Lady’s Eternal Blessing. They will always count as being under the effect of the spells Divine Favour and Divine Blessing which cannot be dispelled by any means.RETINUE REWARDS:
1: Lost to the Lady: This unit may not roll from this table again.
2: Strength of Bretonnia: Once per game this unit may re-roll saves.
3: Steeds of Bretonnia: Once per game this unit may run and charge.
4: Sons of Bretonnia: Once per game this unit may add +1 to hit.
5: Saviours of Bretonnia: Once per game this unit may add +1 to wound.
6: Blessing of the Lady: The unit will always count as being under the effect of the spell Divine Blessing which cannot be dispelled by any means.-
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13 minutes ago, Lightbox said:
For a 1k list with the cogs I think the following could be an interesting shout:
1 Enchantress - 160
1 Damsel - 100
10x Grail Knights - 360
16x Men at arms - 120
8x Knights Errant - 200
Chronomantic Cogs - 60
Points: 1000/1000
You'd get a decent beatstick in the form of 10 grail knights with an enchantress at 1k levels along with cheap bodies to screen and the errant and damsel to take on weaker targets / nab objectives. The cogs would help give you that superiority in movement speed.
The main thing to note here is that the Grail Knights will be relegated the task of Hero killers, as none of the other units would be able to reliably deal with a nasty combat unit very well. So whilst there shouldn't be too many monstrously strong heroes you'd have to fight at that points limit, where they do show up they would be high priority for the Knights.
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4 hours ago, oscisi said:
That’s a clever idea! The forest theme goes well with the Enchantress so it should definitely be doable. Some kit bashing will of course be needed and I would, as a matter of fact, not just cut off the antlers of the mounts but actually change the heads into horse heads completely (and then add the unicorn horn). Otherwise I think it might be hard to sell the idea that the mount is a unicorn. But beyond that I don’t see too many changes that are needed.
The plan is to take one of the Sisters of the Thorn and mount her on an Empire Knights Horse (I have 8 of them hanging around that I'm planning to add to the ranks) as they do have an armour spike on the forehead plate for the horse, which one could argue is armour over a horn beneath. Although I plan to look into the green stuff route to see if that's a viable option as well.
Another two of the Sisters of the Thorn will be added straight to the Pegasi models to give me my flying caster pair for when I decide to use 2 of them at a time. A fourth one will then gain a Bretonnian Horse mount to represent the Archmage, although I'm considering just buying the archmage kit at the moment as that would give me the mounted archmage and an unmounted mage which I could convert into a battlemage.
As for the 5 Deer from the kit, I'm not entirely sure what I'll do with them yet. I 100% plan on assembling them and all, the question is just what unit will I end up using them for?
The other thing I need to work out is what will I do to the Sisters of the Thorn models to make them become less overtly Elven.
2 hours ago, Lightbox said:Begun work on this project with my grail knights and will be posting future project updates on my blog!
Looking good, I look forward to the final result.
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12 minutes ago, Duke of Gisoreux said:
Offensive comparison:
16 Knights of the Realm do 7.97 damage on average against targets with save 4+ with their melee attacks (including horses). When charging the average damage increases to 13.48 against targets with save 4+. A regular game has 5 rounds, 5 turns for each player. They can only charge in your own turn, so let's assume they charged at 20% of the turns in a game. So in a whole battle they would possibly deal 4 * 7.97 + 13.48 = 45.36 damage. Their points cost is 440 for a unit of 16 so you pay 9.70 points per damage they do.
3 Demigryph Knights with Lance and Sword do 3.38 damage on average against targets with save 4+ with their melee attacks (including demigryphs). When charging the average damage increases to 4.83 against targets with save 4+. So in a whole battle they would possibly deal 4 * 3.38 + 4.83 = 18.35 damage. Their points cost is 140 for a unit of 3 so you pay only 7.62 points per damage they do. So damagewise they perform 27% better than Knights of the Realm compared to their points.
Defensive comparison:Knights of the Realm have 2 wounds and a 4+ save. They can reroll 1s on the save when they charge. So a single Knight of the Realm has 4.00 effective wounds when saving wounds from regular attacks with no rend. This increases to 4.80 wounds on the charge. Let's assume the same as above, so a whole unit of 16 has 64.00 effective wounds and 76.80 wounds on the charge, which I combine to (4 * 64.00 + 76.80) / 5 = 66.56 effective wounds. Their points cost is 440 for a unit of 16 so you pay 6.61 points per effective wound the unit has.
Demigryph Knights have 4 wounds and a 4+ save. They reroll 1s on the save at any time, not only when they charge. So a single Demigryph Knight has 9.60 effective wounds when saving wounds from regular attacks with no rend. The whole unit of 3 has 3 * 9.60 = 28.80 effective wounds. Their points cost is 140 for a unit of 3 so you pay only 4.81 points per effective wound the unit has. This makes them 36% more durable than Knights of the Realm compared to their points.
You know, on the one hand I have to praise you for doing the mathematics behind that, and on the other I have to scold myself for not doing it. Damn it I'll have to start number crunching too.
2 minutes ago, Lightbox said:Ahhh that makes sense! But yeah I suppose it all depends on how you plan to run the armies etc.
Probably also worth noting that whilst they may wield cowardly guns that hurt our chivalric theme getting outriders/pistoliers as mercenaries (or just plain regular units with grand alliance order) gives us a potential good speedy and fairly cheap extra horsey unit we can send after objectives whilst our knights of the realm deal with the heavy lifting. But I'm looking forward to skellies & zombies for sure just to give extra cheap bodies for objectives / board coverage. Blood knights alternatively will give a nice alternative to grail knights as a powerful heavy cavalry.
Personally I think the two mercenary options that will suit Bretonnians are the Mousillon options, that being the Blood Knights & Necromancer Mob.
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18 minutes ago, Lightbox said:
Honestly I don't feel like I'll use much CP with brets so I'm not too worried on that side. Though would be nice if we had a formation to bolster the CP reserves a bit. Alternatively just build 50 points short if you really need the extra cp you lose.
The lords +1 to hit on charge is a CP ability, so you'll usually want some spare for that. But if you aren't going for a one turn rush then it should be manageable.
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10 minutes ago, Duke of Gisoreux said:
Funny, I came up with the same list except, that I replaced the unit of 16 Knights of the Realm with 3 units of 3 Demigryph Knights which can be buffed by the Freeguild General once they are in combat. I don't see a problem with Bravery. Archers are chaff anyway and are supposed to die or flee. Grails Knights won't flee as long as the King is alive. Demigryph Knights are only 3 models and their standard rule says that they only have to test for battleshock when 2 or more die, so you will have only 1 left anyway.
That actually seems like a really competitive option, but sadly I lack the models to go with that. The lists I've been designing have been based around what I already own with the exception of the Spellcasters which I'm planning to hunt down after my holiday.
Also, after looking at the Demigryph Knight stat lines for their price cost I feel like the Bretonnians are on an even shorter end of the stick than I initially thought.
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On a different note, this was mentioned today/yesterday.
Generals Handbook Mercenary Companies
Some possible options for Bretonnian armies... Hello Mousillon Blood Knights and Skeletons...
Don't like the lose of a CP though...
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AoS 2 - Bretonnia Discussion
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I did a search for the same thing a while back (Fellow Australian) and honestly I hit the same problem as you did. There were a couple potentials but the quality was so poor that I'd honestly say pass them up. The one you have found is excellent though! I may have to get it to be honest.
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It would seem I've fallen behind of major news whilst on holiday in Thailand. Sounds like the Cities of Sigmar could be a blessing or a curse for us flying the Bretonnian Standard. I hope it's the former and will commence research shortly.
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If you do reignite the passion then I wish you luck. It's a tough thing to do, especially with an army as old as Fair Bretonnia but may the Lady aid you in your endeavour.