dekay
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Posts posted by dekay
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On 5/16/2020 at 5:20 PM, BrocknerTheBear said:
Just looking for some input with regards to wings for my knight azyros. As shes made from the celestine model she is very small so any ideas would be awesome (I concidered aetherwings originally but thier wings are strangely long and rectangular)
Drukhari scourges should be the best fit size wise. Also, looking great even without wings!
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4 hours ago, Paladin of Khorne said:
I’m an old Empire general from way back in 98, when the Halfling Hot Pot and War Wagon were still kicking around and you could kill someone if you filled a sock with all the metal models and hit them with it.
that said, I’m wondering if it’s possible and/or worthwhile to create a functional and fun pure Empire army with this codex and rule set. I’ve read CoS are best served as an amalgamation, but I really just want to recreate the ranks of brightly colored infantry, shining knights, smokey artillery pieces, and magic and mighty heroes leading them.
will this army stand the test of time, or will it get blasted or charged off the table time and again until it makes its way to the bin (or eBay)? I may have to settle for waiting on the upcoming Old World Warhammer launch methinks.
Bad news is: Pure Empire probably won't be the most competitive thing ever.
Good news is: Everything else. It's still pretty competitive. Out of all the old factions Empire is probably the strongest to run solo. Its models encompass entirety of Freeguild and Collegiate arcane, plus better half of Ironweld Arsenal. That's a lot of units to choose from. Second: CoS is extremely counts-as friendly. All those old Empire units that don't have rules anymore? You can use them! And, as we seem to be talking Hot-pot era, there's *a lot* to choose from!
Just for some examples:
Empire archers / halflings? They're shadow warriors now.
Empire knights? Drakespawn knights. Not the best of our units, but it's there.
Horse archers? (yeah we're going old school here ;)) Dark riders.
War Wagon? Either one of the wizard wagons, or a scourgerunner, whatever you prefer.
Engineer? Cogmsith. obviously.
Teutogen guard if you're lucky enough to have those models? Hammerers. With ulric priest runesmith to join them.
Imperial ****** dwarfs, because it was a thing that existed? Do they carry guns, hammers, large axes or shields? Because they can be any duardin units there is, honestly.
So, yeah. With pure human-only warscroll, you'll manage. With some creative thinking, you get to use basically entire army list, have fun!
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Agreed with others: Some outriders would solve a lot of problems this list might encounter, while not diluting Greywater theme in any way. Or maybe a pair of gyrocopters. You need something fast, too many battleplans rely on movement. And longbeards without any other duardin to buffs are a bit wasted.
Handgunner base with generals' buffs might be an unmovable center, but it won't do much if enemy can just sit on objectives outside of their range.
Also, helstorms tend to perform better than hellblasters, but that's your call.
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On 4/17/2020 at 3:07 PM, Kaleun said:
alright lets evaluate the Darkshards.
Time to defend the poor guys again, it seems ; )
Point per wound caused, only shooting unit more efficient than darkshards that we have are irondrakes (against saves 3+ or better darkshards start to rapidly lose their advantage, though. Before petrifex showed up they were much less risky than now). Irondrakes require soulscream bridge to shoot with full effectiveness in 1st round, darkshards don't. In fact, darkshards are only cities shooting infantry that can, with all certainty, shoot something round 1 without sacrificing any buffs. In Tempest's eye they get +1 to wound and extra +4 effective range, allowing for better choice of targets, in Anvilgard they are one of the best recipients for the spray. They also require surprisingly light support structure to achieve full effectiveness (sorceress, hurricanum, optional azyros (can be substituted with command point). Irondrakes require a hurricanum, longbeards and, for best performance, multiple runelords, while being more expensive themselves as well.
They might not be the most efficient choice, but they're certainly not bad, and come with additional advantage of blindsiding opponents expecting irondrake bridge lists.
Plus, (and I can't verify this, due to lockdown induced lack of updated tactical information ;)) as current broken opponent started switching from petrifex to tzeentch, it's possible that against light armour/million bodies horrors, darkshards turn out to be an optimal choice.
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As I dislike big hats in general:
If you don't mind angry faces, every DoK player should have a stockpile of the best generic elven helmets GW currently offers - Dark Riders. There's no inherently evil ornamentation on those, and painted to match lumineth armour they would look very good as a more subdued version.
Shadow warriors (ask Wanderer players, they should have some) have some great helmets for more elite options.
Wildwood rangers for hooded helmets, and even the eternal guard half-helmet thing is cool too.
(By the way, the cow-only idea looks great in my opinion. If I wanted a Lumineth army, I'd probably go with those)
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17 hours ago, TheCovenLord said:
Do you have a link to the lists? I would absolutely love to up my game, especially if I can add in a nice looking model for better reasons.
One example I remember:
Tim Neal's list, 8th place at Cancon. Not that bad for a list comprised mostly of seemingly weak units ; ) I've seen dragon sorceress used in Hallowheart lists for channeling too, from time to time, but I'm not sure if it had any big successes.
And yet, i don't think aynone has ever made the griffon mage work.
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Don't yall dare compare the dragon sorceress to the griffon mage! Sorceress has a unique spell that combined with vitriolic spray simply reads 'deal max mortal wounds', she has both a standard sorceress command ability (which is great) and her unique ability (that actually can give black guard an edge over phoenix guard!) and she can keep up with said black guard huge threat range! And she did well in those strange drakespawn based tournament lists we never thought would be good!
I'm not saying she's good, she isn't, but griffon battlemage has literaly none of these things going for him and zero resons to take him over the foot version. They don't deserve to be placed in their own category while he's obviously on his own, unique level of bad
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18 hours ago, Myrdin said:
I really dont see an issue with Outriders/Pistollers and Handgunners/Xbowmen. They are essentially the same unit, doing the same thing, in two different ways. None is better than the other especially with the additive bonuses. Therefore its a foolish thinking trying to split them up with a price gap will do them justice.
If anything Xbowmen should go down by 10pts. But upping either to 110 puts them into the Shadow Warriors territory and those are vastly superior to either since they require much less buffing to be just as efficient (essentially all you need is a piece of cover...). Same with the cavalry. 10 points puts them into the Darkriders zone and at that point there is the argument of why not just run those instead since they are much faster and can still shoot and even fight if charging.
Point conceded, you are right. 110 for either of those is too much.
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Phoenix guard, Frostheart Anointed, Hurricanum with mage (as incentive to take the cheaper option ;)), handgunners (10 pts, to make crossbows better?), Whitefire Retinue, Irondrakes, maybe? They kinda outclass our other shooters in many lists. Scourgerunners (opinions vary if single or horde price ;))?
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42 minutes ago, Kramer said:
Any feedback?
I will repeat this over and over again: Executioners are questionable as is (and I'm one of their proponents!) and the best thing they have going for them is their horde discount. The second thing they have going for them is Sorceress' command ability that works on one unit. Multiple small units of executioners capitalise on neither of those. Think of it what you may ; )
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12 hours ago, Dragobeth said:
You know, that guy, the guy who buys the most op army once it get released, goes to the tournament with 0 experience and get smashed by some other person who knows what to do.
Holy hell, it's brilliant. In-universe leader of the bonereapers is like those people who onlybought into bonereapers because they heard they were OP. He only needs a quieter, more skilled but less known officer who actually enjoys being a bonereaper having a string of successes behind his back that are all attributed to Katakros and we're set.
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@readercolin, great summary!
I'd only add one small thing to Anvilgard regarding artifact selection - it seems like a waste to have a large monster in there and not give it Drakescale Cloak. This is some real survivability boost that other cities may be envious of.
And it's also worth nothing that in Tempest's Eye dreadlords start the game with +1 to save. Big deal if you're going second and/or manage to pull off 1st turn charge.
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1 hour ago, Kaleb Daark said:
Malal.
he was never canon.
Not entirely correct. Malal had a portrait and description in Warhammer Fantasy Role Play rulebook, right next to Nurgle and Khorne (Tzeentch and Slaanesh weren't in, yet ;)) That makes it semi canon at least. Keep in mind, it was a rulebook where grim reaper was a greater demon of Khorne and gods of Law were still a thing.
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Alright, as I happen to like elven part of CoS the most, here's a few assorted suggestions.
Sorceress is universally good. Regardless of the city you pick, it's nearly always worth to have a sorceress. And she likes having 10 dreadspears/bleakswords around her for a casting boost.
'convert a hurricanum to look more suitable for elves' is an advice that usually pops up, so glad to hear you're ahead of us ; ). Hurricanum is awesome. One of the best units in the entire faction.
Black guard/executioners are... well, not terrible. But keep in mind, phoenix guard are usually better. If you take black guard instead, you need to capitalise on literally the only thing they're better in, which is speed. Black guard can pull off a 1st turn charge. If you need that, cool, take them. If you don't, phonenix guard it is. Also, if you use phoenix guard, your malekith/Visarch can be used as anointed. Anointed and Nomad Prince are only fighty elven characters on foot (except for assassin but he 's well, different). They support phoenix temple and wanderers, though, so if you plan to stick to old dark elves, they're not all that useful. Idea with Incantor sounds fun and does capture his nature pretty well.
Darkshards in large units are awesome. They have speed allowing for shooting things since turn 1 and are cheapr enough to have really great damage per point.
Scourgerunner chariots are awesome too.
Drakespawn chariots and knights are considered weak, but some managed to get good performance out of them. Just... make sure you know what you're doing. If you take them, use Dreadlord as well - he boosts their performance, like, very much.. Also, dreadlord in Living City, when armed with a crossbow, can pull off some crazy movement shenanigans using their move after shooting skill.
Dark Riders are cheap, fast and relatively durable. Good harassing/flanking unit.
Corsairs are very cheap and when buffed, they can do some damage. They're mostly a chaff unit, though.
Both hydra and kharybdiss are good, especially in Anvilgard.
Also, shadow warriors are dark elves now, so if you have any old shade models, congrats, they have rules.
Your city picks: Anvilgard for most dark-elfy flavour, Living City for best supporting dreadlord on dragon, Tempest's Eye for running your black guard through entire battlefield in 1 turn, Hallowheart for supporting incantor-general with hurricanum and sorceress support *really* well.
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19 minutes ago, Thiagoma said:
I like the middle of the road from Cities of Sigmar 1 in 4 flavour faction (sylvaneth, stormcast, KO)
Gives a cool mix with flavor.
And, most importantly, those Sylvaneth and Kharadrons get CoS keywords and abilities, with no option to keep their own. The worst thing in 40k version is that you can mix and match 'allegiances' as well. Even within a single faction, as long as you take required unit compositions. Basically, Imagine CoS, only you take greywater artillery company for extra shots, infiltrate a living city dragon, but rest of your army is hallowheart. And your allied Sylvaneth get their wyldwoods and summoning as normal. Things are insane.
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2 minutes ago, Overread said:
Malal is so far back in the lore that he's with squats and zoats
Worth mentioning that both Squats and Zoats have returned recently in limited capacity, so who knows...
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10 hours ago, Doko said:
It is 100% obvious that the faq is legal,but you are arguing as the typical "that player" looking for legal loops.
Yeah, It's glaringly obvious that errata (published in 12.18) for page 177 of GA: Order book (published in 4.16) is a clarification for page 104 of Cities of Sigmar book (published in 10.19). Obviously.
Doet that mean that I should add to the Wild Rider warscroll the part where they can get shields for +1 save/-2 move? Because I would very much like that option and GA: Order errata clearly states I can! And Irondrakes now fire twice in large units, not if static, also according to the same errata. Great with, say, Tempest's Eye move bonus!
Alright, enough sarcasm.
It's not a 'legal loop'. Current rules have taken into account 'does not stack' on abilities of all the other characters. They didn't for runelord. CoS errata didn't change that. There's no reason to think runelord prayers don't stack, apart from 'they used to work differently'. Yeah, well, they've been changed, apparently. We can't pretend to know what authors intentin nas been, but rules don't in any way prohibit stacking in this case (while they do in many others in the same book)
@Double Misfire, that gyrocopter remains awesome. Even better to see it painted. Almost makes me regret not going for a more mechanised theme ; )
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Archaon wins, hands down. Katakros might be one of Nagash's most powerful minions, but Archaon is closer to power level of Nagash himself. And they're fighting exactly where Archaon is the strongest and has almost limitless access to reinforcements. I'd assume they'll write it as much more one sided, but looking at how these characters are presented, Archaon losing would be very inconsistent with his portrayal. He's a worthy enemy to Sigmar, Chaos Gods are starting to fear him, it would be hugely underwhelming if he lost to someone's servant.
Of course, Katakros could be potentially able to outsmart him, given that he's presented as one of the best generals ever, but Archaon and his force win through sheer power.
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8 hours ago, JackStreicher said:
Depends.
seems like he just needed something to tank out objectives (Drakespawns) while the dragons did the heavy lifting?
It‘s also important to know that such niche lists are hard to deal with since no body knows what they do
Additionally it is „only“ place 8 in one tournament.
edit: The Subfaction and the knights are still bad, I guess he surprised his opponents with his monster mash
Oh I'm not saying they're suddenly good. They clearly aren't, just numbers wise. But given the fact that someone managed to get some actual performance out of them, they're not useless. Hard to use? Probably. Depending on being very non-meta? Likely. But still, top 10 on big tournament.
Yeah I'd assume that dragons and chariots (also of drakespawn variety - also nice to see) did most of the killing, but even if knights were just an objective holder, it's still good there's any possible reason to get them on the table.
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1 hour ago, swarmofseals said:
Looking over the CanCon/Call to Glory lists I continue to be shocked that basically nobody is running Cities as a gunline. I guess there was one guy playing Greywater artillery, but that's about it!
When it comes to weird, more important thing is that Anvilgard Serpentis list actually worked well. And that's actually wonderful news. That's like, three seperate 'X is useless' dispelled at once
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8 minutes ago, SwampHeart said:
Massed Knights and Chariots took 8th at CanCon this weekend.
And I'm overjoyed about this - confirms that you *can* make drakespawn work. But it was a large unit with proper dreadlord support, Azyros for hit re-rolls and vitriolic spray that makes their mount attacks much better. On their own ,they're still a weak warscroll (and, still, one of our worst. But we have pretty solid internal balance and even bad things can usually be usable in some way ;))
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2 hours ago, Crashnarf said:
I also wonder if the hydra wouldbe nice instead of the 5 knights.
Everything is better than knights. Regrettably. Especially without a dreadlord.
Also - I'm not sure about the blade on fleetmaster. He's not good in close combat anyway, his strength is in his command skill, mostly. If you were including the hydra, swapping extra artifact for extra drakeblood curse could be beneficial. I'm also unsure about sorceress with no units to use her command abilities on (they're really good) and nothing to sacrifice for casting bonus. And no vitriolic spray. Sap strength is good, too, but spray is commonly regarded as the best thing in Anvilgard. As for Doomfire Warlocks - what's the plan for them? Unit of 5 doesn't do all that much damage with their magic as soon as 1 dies, and as allies they don't get anvilgard spells. Sisters of Thorn are quite similar in function and with access to shadow daggers they can deal a lot of MW, too, why not them? They are cheaper, too.
5 hours ago, Fazhak said:If you have questions or other feedback, please feel free to share.
It's an interesting concept and I'd very much want to hear how it works out in practice. However, one thing - even though I'm in the 'Executioners aren't all that bad' group, I have to say that the best thing about them is their horde discount. Taken in numbers smaller that 30 they are outperformed by black guard in basically any matchup imaginable outside of exotic things such as 2+ re-rollable saves. Just changing them to 30 and 10 saves you 60 points.
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I dislike how it's *implemented* given that subfactions are still wildly unbalanced in some books, but I very much like it as a concept - it's one more tool to manage internal balance and those are needed because not everything can be done with points. Restricting options that way makes it much easier for designers to think of all the possibilities.
What I don't like is, as mentioned, that despite it being a good idea it still doesn't work, and that it's sometimes easy to circumvent (If your army is from subfaction X, your Megaboss general must take trait Y... so you just make another character your general) This feels weird.
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Age of Sigmar has, as of now, 22 factions if I count correctly. Out of all those, only 4 were created specifically for AoS. Stormcast Eternals, Fyreslayers, Kharadron Overlords, Idoneth Deepkin. In addition to that, Nighthaunt and Ossiarch Bonereapers use MOSTLY new AoS models, but still parts of their range are what might be called 'leftover WFB models'. Sooo is this question basically, should 4 factions be arbitrarily more powerful than 18 others?
I don't really get the 'Cities of Sigmar/Legions of Nagash/Whatever models don't fit AoS style'... Because what makes them different from, say, Vampire Counts Ghouls? Or Black Orcs? Oh, and I'd gladly hear why Dark Elf Doomfire Warlocks fit AoS theme while Dark Riders (coming from the same exact kit, mind you!) don't!
Everything that's currently in AoS battletomes fits AoS theme because AoS creators said so. Some models are older than others. In all likeness, they'll be resculpted at some point (like, say, Black Coach, Squig Hoppers or recently Chaos Warriors were - same idea, same theme, newer, prettier model).
So no, factions with newer models deserve exact same rules quality as factions with old models (mind you, I didn't call them 'old factions' and 'new factions' because by that nomenclature, CoS are way newer than Idoneth - they didn't exist as a faction at all up until few months ago!). And every single faction deserves a quality ruleset and pretty models. Some older models need to be remade in time (those poor Skaven) because since they were made, technology allowed GW to up their quality significantly.
Blacksmoke Battery is good. Fight me.
in Cities of Sigmar
Posted
My only question would be how did you manage to get them to shoot more than once, given that it takes 6 5+ save wounds to silence them both. The greatest weakness of cannons is having the 1st edition crew rules making them ridiculously fragile. Apart from that, they're not useless. They definitely hit hard, but as they're premium targets, they rarely get a chance to shine. Why didn't your opponent just shoot them?