dekay
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Posts posted by dekay
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20 minutes ago, Icegoat said:
I think they are slowly removing cities of sigmar as an army so would not be suprised if these were not updated
May not sound like one, but this is an entirely honest question: Do you have some active agenda to scare people off the faction and/or the game? Are you a shareholder of one of GW's competitors? What do you have to gain in popping up in all those unrelated threads and repeating the same apocalyptic tales? It used to be annoying but now I'm genuinely curious.
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5 hours ago, Lord of the Isle said:
You seem to rate Darkling infantry way above Corsairs?
All right, time for a long post ; )
Let's put it like this: Corsairs are terrible. Keep that in mind any time you plan on using them, because they're a fascinating combination of being really bad, and being extremely receptive to large number of buffs. Entirety of corsair tactics is making them not terrible, all up to making them good.
First things first: there are two possible weapon options they can have. A handbow and a second blade. This very much determines their role: handbow corsairs are a screen/chaff/objective holder unit. They work best in units of 10, to keep them cheap. They can be used to fill the minimum requirements of Anvilgard battalion as well. Just... don't expect them to do much fighting. They are bad. But they are also cheap and not bad enough to be utterly ignored by the enemy, and they get some extra durability against shooting.
Let's talk about dual blade corsairs though, because this is where things get funny: Each one of them has two bad attacks. If the unit is large enough, they get +1 to hit. So that's a start! And, coincidentally, if you take a full unit of 40, they get even cheaper. So let's do that. Now, look at the Fleetmaster. Fleetmaster has an ability giving their melee weapons +1 attack. Nice. But wait' there's more! Each of their attacks comes from a separate weapon profile, so it's +2 attacks each (with +1 to hit for being a large unit!). With 4 attacks a piece, they are now more than twice as killy as their initial stats would suggest. But wait, there's still more! We have multiple ways of increasing their hit chance even more: Hurricanum gives them a further +1 to hit (to total of 2+) while one of the universal command skills (or knight azyros) allows them to re-roll 1's as well. So now we're talking a 40 men blob where everyone has 4 attacks (realistically, not all 40 will get to combat, but hey, they're cheap and it's one more reason to take full unit!), all those attacks hit on 2+ re-rolling 1's, half wounds on 4+ and half on 5+. Still not awesome. But now let's get to what particular cities can grant them:
Hallowheart!
Ignite weapons spell, +1 to wound! Warding brand! Killing them in melee wounds enemies! Combine this with Hallowheart insane casting bonuses and you can actually count on those spells working when you need them.
Tempest's Eye!
+1 save in the first turn, boosting their armour against shooting to 3+, so more of them will actually get to combat! Access to items for both re-rolling failed charges and granting immunity to battleshock (so the enemy must physically remove all 40 of them) and, probably the best thing, Aura of Glory spell. Remember this hurricanum that accompanies them? Now it can give their weapons +1 attack. And remember, they have two separate weapons. 6 attacks a piece yo!
Anvilgard!
There's 40 of them. So removing one to give them and everything around them immunity t battleshock is very solid. And, as a part of battalion, they get +1 to wound against monsters. Not as good as flat +1 in hallowheart buuut, speaking of spells, Anvilgard's great strength is their Vitriolic Spray. Spell that straight up removes armor from one enemy unit. You have guys with 4 attacks each, with no rend, so armor is their biggest weakness... if it's gone, they turn to actual blender. Your opponent will do everything to block this spell, though, so plan it well.
And that's a basic gist of making corsairs good ; ). Is it the best tactic? Hell no, it's complicated and involves many moving parts. Is it fun, especially in friendly games? Very much so!
So let's talk about darkling infantry:
Executioners and black guard are more or less the same in function. Mathematically, black guard hit harder but are more expensive. It's your choice, honestly, but if you take executioners, it's best to take a full unit due to their horde discount. Keep in mind, both are generally worse than Phoenix guard, so if you're using them, you should use them in a way that Phoenix Guard won't allow. Namely: A sorceress gives them access to charge after running. This makes them much faster, and opens up a possiblity to use them even for the 1st turn charge! (if the sorceress is on a dragon, she gets a second ability increasing their hitting power as well, and Anvilgard is a good place for dragon sorceresses. Drakescale cloak greatly increases her survivability, drakeblood curse is free, so you should be taking some monster anyway, and vitriolic spray is short ranged so her being closer to the enemy might be useful).
Bleakswords and Dreadspears are... not all that good combat units, but they're good screens, are reasonably resilient and, most importantly, make for a cheapest sacrifice for the Sorceress. Not a very glamorous job, but a unit of 10 is a very common sight. You will rarely need many of them, though. Unit of 10-20 to serve as a sacrifice fodder/screen/honored retinue is enough.
But Darkshards! Darkshards are another great use for the sorceress run and shoot ability, because unlike most of our other shooters, they lose nothing when firing on the move. Individually, their shots are bad, but they are cheap, they are accurate, and most of what I said about Corsair buffs works on them as well (disregard the fleet master and in Tempest's Eye exchange Aura of Glory for Hawk Eyed ; )). With move, run and 16 weapon range, they can reasonably threaten the enemy even if its the 1st turn and you went first. And they're good for blood sacrifices as well.
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As for particular city:
With so many elves you should probably avoid Greywater Fastness, because it doesn't rally offer them much. Phoenicium is...weird, let's call it so it's probably not the best choice as well. All the others can work pretty well with what you have, it just depends on your future units and what aspects of the army you want to capitalise upon.
Just remember: cities being themed around particular races is mostly a misconception. Try to avoid thinking, say, Hammerhal is for freeguild, but rather think what can a city do for your army in particular. For example, hammerhal gives command points for banners. Banners held by an elf or a dwarf are working just as well as human ones. Living City may seem like it's themed around wanderers, but it actually supports say, disposessed, just as well. Tempest's Eye is very universal, but you should probably avoid units that are buffed by standing still, regardless of their race. Anvilgard might seem like a corsair city (and is a bit tricky to play, be warned) but it can work pretty well with freeguild and covens, and so on. Hallowheart works with basically anything as long as you take a lot of wizards.
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Alright. First of all, this looks like a great classic model collection!
At first glance, what you have is extremely hero heavy (Mordheim knight on foot is a better model for freeguild general then actual freeguild general model is. You're from now obliged to use him in every list :D).
If you were able to find one more blister of 3 classic shadow warriors, than together with mordheim ranger and one of the characters as a champion, you have a playable unit (aenur would fit the best, but he can also be a nice battlemage and you could use more caster models).
Apart from that, your picks seem pretty solid. Now on to units, and, in all actuality, it will be pretty easy: CoS characters have pretty narrow range of units they can support. You know what characters you have, you need to get them some troops to command.
So, you will need some darkling covens infantry (and funnily enough, they are all good, only their functions differ) for the sorceress, some freeguild troops (on foot, as you lack a grifffon) for the general: handgunners are very good, and guard with sword and shield are one of our best screening units. Greatswords are not bad as well, but honestly I'd advise some of their aelven equivalents. And, for the Nomad Prince, both sisters of the Watch and Eternal Guard are considered pretty solid.
Fleetmasters see some use as well, but it's usually in forces really themed around corsairs and (even more so) scourgerunner chariots.
As you're intending them for friendly games, a healthy mix of different subfactions will serve you well, no need to overtune the list.
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16 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:
I actually don’t know.
It kinda reminds me of the old days where The dark elves had those huge ship known as Black Arks.
I don’t know exactly if this illustration is something new or one of many old world illustration (which look amazing as well) but if this pictures means that Black corsairs, still row the world with those huge ships, I’m all in for a Pirate Elf themed Faction.
I agree that it looks extremely Old-Worldy to the point where it's kinda strange that it has been used as a promo of new Aelf-themed book. Exactly what made me think.
And, as @Lord of the Isle mentioned, Black Arks are still a thing, Scourge are using them, as well as smaller ships. I mean, their basic unit is called *black ark* corsairs and they're led by *black ark* fleetmasters.
So if this picture really shows Scourge Privateer ships... well, to think of it, we all know GW is not very committed when it comes to potential CoS updates. No new models, no warcry, no faction terrain, it was a pretty low risk update. Dropping some extra CoS rules and such in a supplement that players of other, more popular armies will buy as well seems like a smart thing to do if minimizing risks is their way for the faction. But we'll see. Hard to speculate any more based on a single picture. Maybe it's meant to be Idoneth or something ; )
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Maybe I'm reaching here, but doesn't this illustration from new Broken Realms look more like Scourge Privateers than Idoneth? Maybe there's a chance that city-aelves will show up in Broken Realms.
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Looks like the silhouette with the staff isn't a part of shadowstalkers kit. So there's more to come!
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4 minutes ago, KingBrodd said:
The silhouette at the front, is definitely a past Rumour Engine.
Yup. The bead-thing on the staff was certainly there.
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Might mechanics from LOTR.
Both for making heroes less swingy when it mattered, and to break turn sequence, making random priority rolls much less impactful than in AoS. It could single handedly solve the issues some have with double turn, and it was one of the best examples of heroes actually leading being reflected by the rules.
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1 hour ago, AVDN said:
Could I use my Ellyrian Reavers as drakespawn knights? Would be nice to create the 1000 points army from what i currently have.
They are perfect Dark Riders, and great Outriders. Using them as other cavalry might be too confusing. Don't worry about smaller griffon, though. Just put him on a proper base and you've got yourself a freeguild general on griffon if you ever need him (or, possibly, mage on griffon, but trust me, you WON'T be needing this one. Ever. :D)
And old anvil of doom is such great model for a dwarf themed hurricanum that no one will ever complain despite it being smaller. Maybe put it on an elevated base for the sake of those few complainers that you will encounter ; )
Back to the topic, though: I'd advise against using 5 drakespawn at all. They can be good, but mostly in units of 10 with a dreadlord support. And as they're meant to be your rearguard, dark riders might suit you better here. They're much faster and will pose a threat in the turn they arrive. And they're both tougher and faster than their freeguild equivalents as well.
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6 minutes ago, Leemer said:
Does anyone have any experience of dark elves in TE? Been thinking about building a more melee-focused list and came up with this. All feedback welcome.
As someone who likes the darkling part of TE, few suggestions:
Darkshards. I own 40 of them and several of my lists included them all. I really like them as a unit, but to be good there needs to be a lot of them, best near the hurricanum and with Hawk Eyed general. Without that they're very underwhelming. Alternatively, small unit of 10 is great as well, because they're a sacrificial unit for the sorceress and can still do some harm while camping with her. And you'll not have much use of their potential mobility, because the Sorceress is much better off using her command ability on Executioners instead.
20 with no hawk eyed and hurricanum supporting the front line will likely disappoint you. I'd consider dropping half of them. That gets you extra 100 points and, guess what, you could really use those points because...
Executioners! I kinda liked them before the update, now they're even cheaper! However! For just 60 points more, you could have 30 of them, and, really, why not? Cheap as they are, without their horde discount they're usually outperformed by other elite infantry options we have. But if you run 30, now we're talking!
And if you swap 10 darkshards for 10 executioners, you still have 50 pts leftover. And as you have neither the battalion or adjutant, you could really use that extra command point you could buy for this. Both Executioners and Drakespawn can potentially charge in 1st turn. Executioners need a command point to do that (sorceress'), drakespawn need a command point to fight effectively (dreadlord's ability). Celestial visions is a great spell, but you can't really risk it not going off, because you'll lack CP in the opening turn.
Also! Rageblade is pretty fun, but if I may suggest an alternative: Zephyrite banner. You have multiple units capable of long range charges. You can give them all a free re-roll with proper positioning. It's much more utility than making an already killy character a little bit more killy.
Apart from that, it seems like a very fun list to play ; )
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26 minutes ago, Warbossironteef said:
What do you all think about this list with the new point changes?
I hope your general has a shield because it's not listed and it's a very bad life choice to run him without it.
As for the list, it could use some outriders, it's hard to get that many pistoliers in range and outriders can still do some shooting while sitting on the objective closer to your side of the field. Apart from it, it's my favorite kind of TE list ; )
And you have 20 points leftover, consider Suffocating Gravetide. It's not of much use to you as a spell, but hey, if it's either taking it or wasting 20 points, it's basically free, and also, its base is huge. You are faster than most of your opponents, having a mobile movement blocker of this size benefits you much more than them, so you might as well. Worst case, you'll never cast it.
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15 hours ago, swarmofseals said:
If Katakros does get to buff first and the Megaboss doesn't have the Big Waaagh buffs the it's a true stalemate as whomever charges is basically guaranteed to lose.
If battle length is not an issue (and why would it be, if we're discounting every other factor basically :D), megaboss will eventually wear Katakros down with his shooting attack (it will take a million turns given it's a pretty bad attack and Katakros regenerates, but still :D). Katakros would have no other choice but to charge after receiving enough wounds to be fully buffed and count on killing megaboss in a single activation, which is possible but not certain. If he fails, even a wounded maw krusha will easily take the reminder of his wounds.
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13 minutes ago, Maturin said:
I wanted to do such a list but the 5+ save and the T1 non shooting ability in the shooting phase put me off. I already got 15 outriders...
Outriders provide T1 shooting you need. And in any objective game, giving your opponent the first turn is actually great because they have a really terrible choice between not scoring anything in their first turn, or getting all the pistoliers to the face in yours. And if you're facing something that can reasonalby pull off the 1st turn charge, you can go first and charge them instead. Not having double shots but having all the oter buffs in place is still better for you than having their charge-reliant army charged is for them. Especially that pistolier salvo ignores the activation order altogether so whatever you're fighting, it won't have their full numbers AND you have your saves boosted.
I found the tournament mentioned earlier by the way, It was Sheffield Slaughter 2020, some of the TE cavalry list games are recorded and give quite a nice insight how it plays.
Here's the list:
Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar- City: Tempest's Eye
LeadersCelestial Hurricanum With Celestial Battlemage (280)- Artefact: Seerstone Amulet- Lore of Eagles: Aura of Glory
Freeguild General on Griffon (320)- General- Shield & Lance- Command Trait: Hawk-eyed- Artefact: Patrician's Helm
Battleline
10 x Freeguild Outriders (200)5 x Freeguild Outriders (100)
15 x Freeguild Pistoliers (300)
10 x Freeguild Pistoliers (200)
10 x Freeguild Pistoliers (200)
10 x Freeguild Pistoliers (200)
Battalions
Aetherguard Windrunners (120)Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)Total: 1970 / 2000Extra Command Points: 2Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 144
And here you can see them completely rolling a Nagash Petrifex list:
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1 hour ago, Maturin said:
How about using a Bridge to get at 9" from tour opponents ?
Bridge is 'more than 9' as well. For the same reason pistoliers can't be used for living city infiltrate->shoot->move thing, which is a shame.
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2 hours ago, swarmofseals said:
IIRC a pistolier based list placed 4-1 at a major last year at bare minimum, so yeah it's a viable build for sure
Do you recall what tournament was it and/or how did the list look?
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23 minutes ago, Frowny said:
Has anyone tried a mass pistoleer or an outrider list? They math out pretty solidly I think. Possibly in tempest eye for that turn 1 or maybe living call for the move after shooting.
Thinking of a fun way to use some Brettonians or maybe mechanical horses from the admech range.
In Tempest's Eye it can be very good, and it's one of very few viable low-drop lists in Cities. You can reasonably put 80% of your army into a single battalion. You have your general/big monster in the form of griffon, pistoliers are kinda-functionally-melee units, outriders do shooting and gunhaulers provide even more mobility and firepower.
All you need for this to work is some magic. However! One very important thing when it comes to 1st turn and pistoliers:
To work as intended, pistoliers must shoot, charge and then shoot again. That means they can't run this turn, because while TE allows shooting after running, you can't charge after that. This drastically lowers their effective alpha strike range. Another thing,, pistols are range 9. Meaning that despite wide range of charge move increases we have access to (you can pull off +6 if you really want to), pistoliers effective charge range is 'less than 9'.
What does it mean in practice? Well, a problem arises. Because most battleplans place you 'more than 24' from your nearest target. You have 12 move, +3 in your first turn. If you subtract 15 from 'more than 24' you are, annoyingly, 'more than 9' from the target, and that's not good enough. Yeah, you can run after that, giving you, with right budd, extra 9 inches of movement but you won't charge after that. You can forego shooting phase and charge even 2d6+6, rerolling failures, but then, you will also only shoot once.
So, what you can do with that? Well.
1: Use chronomantic cogs. +2 inches of movement and your pistoliers firepower effectively doubles. However, if you hinge your entire plan on this succeeding, terrible things happen if you fail. (Best way to cast it: either a hurricanum (+1 to cast) which you will find extremely useful anyway, outriders love it, or a sorceress with 10 men sacrificial unit (+2 to cast). Both can, obviously, just roll badly so I hope you're a betting man.)
2: You can likely control who goes first. So you can let enemy come closer, survive their initial shooting and whatnot with your extra saves and such, and then easily reach them turn 1. Maybe even get a double turn. But it hinges on your enemy actually coming closer. Will they make a push for objective? Or do they know you need them to move forward so they simply wont? Be prepared for an instance where all you will achieve with those pistoliers in the 1st turn is some impressive area denial. Which is also a good thing as well, you have outriders and gunhaulers to shoot those guys while they're keeping distance while pistoliers grab objectives.
3: Good opponent will know that pistoliers won't hit him with double shots 1st turn. And may count on you knowing that as well, planning for you to go second. Guess what, you can always go first, move forward, soften his screens with gunhaulers and outriders, charge anyway, buff yourself with general's command and be quite deadly even with just a single salvo and melee attacks.
Things pistolier/outrider based lists like:
Hurricanum. Every single thing you use gets much better with +1 to hit.
Knight Azyros. Great general material, actually. Can provide hawk eyed AND re-rolls of 1 to hit, while simultaneously benefiting from his pistolier honored retinue for not getting himself killed, all that while keeping up with your cavalry. And it allows you to use the griffon as a suicide unit when necessary.
Wildform. You want pistoliers to make their charge, +2 bonus is great.
Lifeswarm. You generally don't have the numbers infantry based list would have, so healing is always good. Every man counts.
Hawk Eyed. Other traits might be good, but when basically every unit in your army shoots, boosting shooting is what you do.
I wholly advise trying such a list, it's very fun and it's everything your opponents expect Cities NOT to be. It's fast, elite, hard hitting and aggressive, with potentially very low drop count giving you a huge chance for controlling the early game. And you won't be bored, everything wants to move a lot. If you get stuck in combat, you just retreat and shoot/re-charge. Is there a support character hidden somewhere? Gunhaulers. If there's an objective unclaimed? You just run up outriders there or high-fly a gunhauler if it's far enough.
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Sadly, bases are important.
As others mentioned, it seems like you're disadvantaging yourself because with 32mm base marauders can't fight in two ranks. But on the other hand, if you want to use them as a screen and, say, stretch them into a line, this line will be 7cm wider for each 10 guys. That's more than 10 inches longer screen for a full unit. Is this better than fighting in 2 ranks? Honestly, who knows. Because it depends on how are you planning to use them.
Important thing is, you're turning a unit better at fighting and worse at securing ground into a unit worse at fighting but better at securing ground. In some way a different unit. Can your opponent be certain you'll be using them identically to how you'd be using regular marauders despite their slightly different profile? Or even, can you be sure their different profile won't affect how YOU think about using them?
In friendly games it should be okay, but the more you think about it, the more it's because people will let you play your own homebrew unit. Unit very similar to an existing unit, of course, but still a new one. I'd advise using 25mm base to avoid any confusion. Marauders haven't been updated for StD tome and it's highly unlikely they will get update for next few years at least.
And, coincidentally, I have some ghur-freeguild guys converted from corvus cabal and they fit onto a smaller bases just fine, you should manage ; )
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52 minutes ago, ProbablyBalthus19 said:
How would the tauralon get 3 casts base. Isn't that just for non stormcast models?
Nope! Stormcasts gain Hallowheart keyword, making them legible for all the special rules. Tauralon might be actually worth considering.
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3 hours ago, Maddpainting said:
I'm fine with Black Dragon not changing and i play 2 of them time to time, with Drakespawn knights lol. Thou i do have the rest of my army as Scourgerunners for backup. They at 2+ save with 14w turn 1 is a lot stronger than you would think against shooting, or the +4" turn1 movement with run and charge in TE. 16"+D6 and charge, or the Knights 15"+D6, with a +1 to charge as well. for all of it and additional +1 for the Knights.
It's only +3 movement but I'm inclined to agree. In TE knights can easily get either 21 move for 1st turn repositioning (without getting any spells into account) or potential 14+2d6 (re-rollable) charge range. Again, before we add spells. That's very fast for a 2+ save unit and in many cases they'll be able to successfully charge turn 1.
As for monsters, It's a bit of a niche choice, but definitely not useless. In TE, both Dreadlord and General are very solid choices (with general necessary for the battalion, which is one of CoS more useful ones).
Dreadlord is also useful in Living City and Anvilgard, while General sees use in Hammerhal. Dragon Sorceress has also been used with success in few lists, but with her bad save she is a bit overpriced, even if it isn't to the point of uselessness. Synergies she has with darkling units (that just got cheaper!) are very much worthy of consideration.
Poor battlemage on griffon, though. I don't think anyone ever has managed to use him with any degree of success... (or even attempted to use him at all.)
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57 minutes ago, Maddpainting said:
BOOM, new faqs and points. I new Scourgerunners was going to 80/210, and they did.
Yup, as you predicted. They're still quite good, though.
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Shame about griffon mage, as useless as he ever was.
Battlemage cost is questionable, between Sorceress and Incantor (or worse, exorcist) he'll be hard to justify, unless you're really relying on those spells. Which are still better than any alternatives have built in, but is it worth the cost?
Apart from that, I rather like what I see. Scourgerunners are still good, only now we'll be taking, say, 6 as a support, not 18 as core, and all the other point drops are welcome.
Drakespawn for 130 are quite cheap for the mobile anvil that they are, steam tanks needed this drop very badly, executioners and black guard might be more viable competition for phoenix guard, all the dwarf drops are nice as well.
Neither hurricanum nor phoenix guard went up, which we should be thankful for.
Cheaper Stormcast (and KO) are a boon to us as well. Be it some heavyweight unit, or ridiculously cheap aetherwings as fast roadblock.
All the other elite infantry going down makes Wildwood Rangers even more useless, though.
It's a bit disappointing how many prices remained the same, but all in all, I think we've gained more than we lost.
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18 minutes ago, Azamar said:
There’s a mounted beast option between minor beast and monstrous beast?
6 minutes ago, Beliman said:Not sure if I understood what you are looking for. If you don't want any mount, just ignore that page. If you want a horse, wolf or something like that, there is a Mount option (between the minor beast and the gargantuan).
The mounted beast is something on a dracoline / karkadrak level (+2 wounds, low speed, multiple attack profiles) We lack option for a cold one/drakespawn/horse type mount. More base speed, less attacks, less wounds. It matters especially for CoS characters, where anything more than 6 wounds is prohibited from using retinue rules and being an adjutant.
Everything I try to build now, cavalry hero wise either lags behind all my cavalry or has to pay almost double the mount's cost extra for speed upgrades to keep up. And it's blocked from using faction's character rules anyway. It's a bit disappointing.
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Is anyone else disappointed that there's no real method of building a character on non-monstrous mount? The closest thing to it is buying all the speed upgrades you possibly can and a minor beast to simulate the mount's attacks, but it's pretty ridiculously expensive. I know that game is moving away from those, but there are still some left (Vampire Lord, Scar Veteran, Terradon Chief, Skullmaster even).
AoS 2 - Cities of Sigmar Discussion
in Cities of Sigmar
Posted · Edited by dekay
After some digging, the illustration is allegedly from the End Times and therefore, does show Corsair ships. This leaves basically 3 options:
1. Picture is unrelated. Someone thought "we're doing Idoneth expansion, this is a picture of a sea, job's a gud 'un". That would be disappointing.
2. We'll get some Mathlann related flashbacks, because he featured heavily in this part of the End Times. So Idoneth stuff. Also kind of disappointing.
3. Corsairs do have some role in Broken Realms, and this being a recycled illustration works well with low cost approach GW has to the Cities. We'll see.
And, as @SentinelGuy mentioned, Corsairs have had a pretty prominent place in a novel already, including important-ish named character. So they're not completely forgotten.