Kasper
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Posts posted by Kasper
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1 hour ago, Enoby said:
I'm not sure why, but I'm not too worried about a 2+ save if it doesn't have a lot of killing power behind it. Like, Nurgle can get 40 mauraders with 2 wounds each and a 5+/5+/6+ reroll 6s to hit and wound against them (maybe even more) which isn't exactly stomping tournaments. I'm not a fan of tankiness in games (just boring to play against) but I don't think it's broken.
Not only that, but if you are a combat army that doesn't manipulate the ordinary combat activation, the warscrolls have to be extremely tough and killy if it still has to pose a challenge after having been beaten by FEC/Slaanesh/IJ S&B etc. in a round of combat.
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I don't think faction terrain fits every faction. But it has gotten to the point where so many people complain/whine/are disappointed if their army doesn't get faction terrain and endless spells. Honestly alot of the terrain feels kinda lackluster and has very limited use, but it is there just for a free, tiny bonus to your army. That feels bland and boring imo. Either make it an important part of the army that it should play around, or dont bother making it in the first place.
Stuff like the Beasts of Chaos terrain feels so weird to me. It is completely opposite of what the faction likes to do - Run fast and ambush the enemy, but the aura wont benefit you until much later in the game, so what exactly is the point of it?
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10 hours ago, JackStreicher said:
If guerrilla miniature wargaming IS correct you can have X mortek guard units running around with a 3+ save rerolling failed armour saves - that is sick.
If it specifically says FAILED armor saves and not just "armor saves" that's great - Obviously I would have prefered no rerolls in the future, but heavy rend will make a big impact there.
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The state of AoS is amazing - They have pumped out tons of battletomes recently and pretty much all of them have something decent to offer. GW has certainly come very far, but that is not to say they could still do tons better.
In the future I hope to see:
- More often balancing than once a year, especially when something is obviously broken. We can't rely on new tomes to de-throne the current kings.
- Less absurd mechanics introduced - I get that they have new ideas and want armies to be different, but when the normal activation order is thrown out the window for a few specific armies, it leaves the remaining armies that don't have similiar mechanics in the dirt.
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This might be skewed due to the armies that I play, but I also feel you field less models on the board, so even though prices increase the overall cost of an army is roughly the same.
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11 hours ago, Shadow said:
Here’s a list I took to a 3 round competitive tourney and won 2 of 3, lost the third because I made a tactical mistake that cost me the game by 1 point in the last round.
Bloodtoof tribe
megaboss - quick duff amulet.
megaboss on maw krusha - boss hacka and choppa - ethereal amulet - brutish cunning
warcaster
warcaster
3x gore gruntas - jagged gore hacka
6x gore gruntas - jagged gore hacka
9x gore gruntas - jagged gore hacka
Gore fistreroll
1970
Isnt your Megaboss with the Quick Duff Amulet forced to take the Bloodtoofs trait? I don't see how it is legal to have Brutish Cunning.
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6 hours ago, Malakree said:
Potentially the biggest part of his list is the ability to fit triple warchanter with the buff targets. It makes even a unit of 10 Ardboys vicious as all hell. The only other 4-1 in the tome was a 4-1 Big Waaagh! with a cabbage. On the other hand a whole bunch of us went 3-2 with either some horrific matchups or being shot down on mirrors. I know @Chris Tomlin had an IJ mirror in Game 5 and lost his game 2 to the Big Waaagh! player who went 4-1, meaning he had 2 "Mirror" matches which dropped one of us down.
I briefly talked to a couple of the other players afterwards/during the day and I think a lot of it came down to either required list changes, horrific matchups, some terrible luck or minor errors during games. Ie. Ben Sava (As Bonesplitterz) was on the table next to me round 2 and was being rekt by constant key 6s from his opponent. I'll try and do a quick rundown myself just to give my own thoughts on how my list played, what could have improved it and changes I'm thinking about. I'm still recovering from the weekend right now though so you'll have to wait.
Anyway, I feel like the weekend showed.
- Warchanters are gods.
- Ironsunz is amazing.
- Ardboys are amazing with support.
- Goregruntas are fantastic with/without support.
- Oh god do we all need more CP's everytime ever.
- Brutes are to expensive. Maybe they are still useful if you build around them?
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Man Brutes needed to be Bravery 7/8
- There are several "reliable" 4-1 lists in Ironjawz.
- There are several "reliable" 4-1 lists in Big Waaagh which are based on Ironjawz.
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A good player with a solid list can definitely go 5-0 and win the tournament
Yeah matchups plays a big part obviously, but watching both the game vs Khorne and vs Slaanesh he played extremely well. Especially the game vs Slaanesh was quite awesome to see - He was very patient and played it it very calculated rather than just max moving everything and spamming MD.
My army has consisted of largely GGs recently, and I really feel the lack of bodies - Epsecially screening - When playing the double Maw Krusha setup. The insane amount of Ardboyz (55) he was playing with looked awesome on the table. Still got that hammer unit of 6 GGs. I still have an Ardboyz box and another starter box laying around on sprues, I just dread putting them together and painting them.
I would love to upgrade his Megaboss on foot to a Maw Krusha, because the Megaboss didn't really do anything in both of the 2 games from what I saw, just not sure what I would cut. 😛
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3 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:
Not sure if you guys are aware, but there was a big event over in the UK at the weekend: Bloodshed in the Shires, 80 players.
Ironjawz (and the legendary Leo Rautonen) won it with a no-Krusha list:
Quite amazing - To be fair there are like 3 other lists going 4-1 with a Maw Krusha, so I don't think this rules him out. I think it makes sense though - He's playing into the meta where Slaanesh is a crazy dominating force, so having more units rather than one big guy that screams "Locus me!" makes sense.
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1 minute ago, TALegion said:
Yes. Hand says that you can't move in the subsequent movement phase and MD makes you move in the hero phase. It's separate from the regular move, which is cancelled out by MD.
And remember to place the unit outside of 12" with the teleport
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5 hours ago, TALegion said:
Initial thoughts:
- I could definitely remove the 5-man ardboy unit and replace it with something more useful. The first thing that comes to mind is Fungoid cave-shaman (like the winner's list). If it just uses mystic shield each turn, it lets the weirdnob use hand of gork more. Also, the army is pretty CP thirsty overall, so any additional CP would be appreciated.
- Ironsunz was a terrific clan - much stronger than I expected. The -1 to hit on the first turn let me be very aggressive, making turn 1 charges with the boss and GGs each game. Also, the counter-charge completely changes the way that people need to play around you - you have a lot of opportunities to engage them when they retreat, try to sneak past your units, engage your units one at a time, etc. I'll try the other clans, but I was very surprised by how much I relied on the Ironsunz' benefits.
- Loud 'Un performed better than expected. I was on the fence about it vs. Weird 'Un, but, when combined with Ironsunz' -1 to hit, Loud 'Un certainly made me tankier than Weird 'Un would have. Spells were never very threatening to me, but that may just be because of the armies that I faced.
- Mortal wounds, on the other hand, were pretty devastating for the megaboss. In each game, mortal wounds accounted for between 40-100% of all wounds taken. This makes me want to experiment with Ignax scales.
- I feel that this is likely a problem with my play, but I didn't utilize Waaagh at all. In each game, I told myself "Not this turn; I might get a better opportunity later." It's most likely that this was a play mistake on my end - I shouldn't hesitate to use Waaagh on 2-3 units if it will make a difference. But, it does make me wonder how valuable it is and whether it may be worth making the weirdnob the general in order to get the Dead Kunnin' command trait (+d3 CP vs. Right Fist of Dakkabad's +1 CP).
I have the same thoughts from playing a couple of games - Ironsunz give you some really awesome tools, and considering there are quite a few fast armies (especially Slaanesh) the -1 to hit is not to be underestimated imo. The counter charge as you said also messes with people - They are so used to be able to charge and only tag a select few units, but with this ability you don't care - So you charged and my other units are more than 3" away? Hold my beer!
Now the issue is that you are forced to take the kinda meh Ironsunz artefacts. I really love the Ethereal Amulet + Brutish Cunning + Weird 'Un combo on my Megaboss, but that isn't possible with the Ironsunz. In general I really like the dual Megaboss setup and has been using Gordrakk + "normal" dude. I really love Gordrakk, but I might have to downgrade him to dual Megabosses so one takes the required trait/artefact, and the other guy is beefed up survivability wise.
In general I really think maximizing damage on the Maw Krusha is the wrong way to go about things - The damage is already insane, and I think it is much more important to keep him alive and well to stack up SFV and also to ensure your dude lives until your next hero phase, where you hopefully are in combat with something and can rip it apart with MD.
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After having seen a couple of batreps and listened to some podcasts, Im gonna reconsider Big Waaagh. The armywide +1/1 plus 6+ FNP just seems insane, especially on stuff like Gordrakk, and it gives us access to the Wardokk. For just 80 pts we get a caster and access to Bonesplitterz lore which is honestly amazing. With his dance to get +1 o casts, we basically have a ranged Locus of Diversion on a 6+. You still have 2x Mighty Destroyers with trait and Ironfist.
The only issue is the lack of Smashing and Bashing, and that you gotta aim for turn 2 to have generated enough points for the juicy buffs.
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1 hour ago, Emissary said:
I know you mention it, but lets get at least half the full picture of the army before we start running around with our hands in the air.
We haven't seen anything allowing them to fight twice or change the fighting order and it was mentioned they won't be able to summon which are the main drivers of the meta.
Agreed. If they get non of these abilities, their warscrolls overall have to be quite strong to stand a fighting chance against the current meta.
I would wait and see.
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3 hours ago, JudgeFredd said:
Wow!
I've just read through the Battletome. I like it a lot! So, I'm thinking of joining the Waaagh.
We have a little campaigne in our LGS, everyone plans a 1000 point list.I like the Big waaagh a lot, but I'm not shure if the Big waaagh realy comes to his whole potetial on 1000 points. Does the big waaagh reaches the upper levels quick enough?
Alternativly I'm thinking about the Bloodtoofs. They have their ability from the start. What do you think?I wouldn't run the Big Waaagh in a 1.000 pts. army. You simply wont generate enough points to get the juicy +1/1 bonus imo.
Bloodtoofs is okay, but I feel the purpose of the clan is the 1 pr. game secured teleport - If you don't have a plan around using this, I wouldn't bother as the rest doesn't seem that useful.
Now it depends on what your list is gonna look like, but I would personally look at Ironsunz or no warclan at all.
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16 hours ago, amysrevenge said:
Honest question.
If there were 20 factions, and 18 of them were at 50% win ratio, one was at 51%, and one was at 49%, do you think there would be the same level of outrage-filled rhetoric as we have now?
Looking at purely win % is kinda meainingless to me, but that is because I care a lot about the gaming experience. If everybody is having fun, then a couple of % don't matter at all. Nobody that I know really care if an army has a slight edge against yours, as long as you feel you can actually play the game and not just sit back and get steamrolled.
Imagine if there were 4 armies - All with 50% win ratio because army A hardcountered B and won 100% of the time, B hardcountered C and won 100% of the time etc. Would this be balanced? Yes, from a stats point of view. All armies would be considered equal. Would it be a good game design? Hell no. It would give everyone involved a horrible gaming experience.
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42 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:
I get your point
Figured I had posted in the wrong thread
But couldnt figure out how to delete.
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The recent stats for Slaanesh are to be expected from experience, but pretty gross nontheless. I really think it shows that GW need to take into consideration how armies can intereact with certain mechanics that they introduce. I realize all armies and troops can't be the same naked warscroll and this would also be boring, but if your army can't interact with the "activation wars" atm. as an example, you are left in the dirt, which is what the stats display. This also often leaves a really bad gaming experience for especially people on the receiving end.
New mechanics are cool and "needed" with armies going forward, but there gotta be some way of playing around it or competiting with it.
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3 hours ago, Slandible said:
I've ran the Big Waagh and had some success, but I tried out pure IJ today and man do they hit hard. I ran 12 pigs in Gorefist and a Mawkrusher under Ironsunz and ended up tabling two games. The pig alpha with Fury and charging Hackas has crazy mobility and damage out put. I also ran a super aggro Maw by Mighty Detroyer turn one and walk (24 inches), got the Get Em prayer off every time and 3D6 charge anything I wanted. I got 6 Strength in Victory bonuses in the second game to get up to 21 wounds.
I cant believe the damage buff pure IJ have gotten since the last edition, I'm very surprised in this damage spike.
Who are you using the beat on? It is in charge phase and wholly within 12”. Your Warchanter is not gonna keep up if you also MD the unit
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4 minutes ago, Malakree said:
If it's still legal by chrimbobo I might talk to my teammate about running this filth.
Not quite as daft since you only get the 2 CP shots per turn but still pretty bad.
- 3 from first turn.
- 1.5 from Trait.
- 1 from 2 - 4+
- 5.5 base.
- +2 from broach
- 7.5 Activations of the Ardfist.
- Round up because of errors carried through to give 4 summons turn 1.
So 40 free Ardboys on turn 1 at 1k points. Then an extra 10 everyturn.
Wrath of Gork could get real fun real fast with such a list
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22 minutes ago, Malakree said:
- Start with 2+d3 command points.
- First turn you get +1 CP
- You get 5 rolls of a 4+ for a CP each hero phase.
- So 3.5 + 1 +2.5 CP
- Average first turn CP is 7.
- Spending 6 CP should on average net you +2 with the Broach, the extra 3 then gives you a third.
- Average ability activations on the first turn is 10.
- Understrength a unit of 5 to 1.
- Green puke on it, use the Ability to green puke on it again.
- Use the ability 10 times.
- Average gain on first turn ~50 ardboys.
- This 900 points.
- Theoretical maximum (assuming average Broach rolls) ~150 Ardboys.
- This is 2700 points...
#balance.
EDIT: ON TURN 1 this says nothing about the future gains from it. Average over a game is probably about 2k points.
So you thought Slaanesh summoning was bad, huh? Lemmie tell ya about Ardfist..
So yeah real talk, this needs to be made 1 CP pr. unit destroyed, or you can use multiple CPs until you succeed in rolling a 4+. This many bodies in a Big Waaagh army with armywide +1/+1 and FNP save etc. would be nuts. Way too many bodies for people to chew through to get to the objectives.
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32 minutes ago, alterdeqip said:
Hi all, i have read all the forum and still have a question about how really works Smashing and Bashing and the Locus of Diversion.
Smashing and Bashing gives us to pick 1 unit and fight immediately in proper situation.
Still Locus of Diversion makes our units to fight last " after the players have picked any other units to fight in that combat phase".
The unclear situation is when not all our units under the Locus of Diversion.
Like this situation:
MK1 under the locus in btb with KoS
MK2 is not under the Locus in btb with some chariot.
It was our charge phase so we pick MK2 to fight first with chariot, chariot is killed and Smashing and Bashing is on.
Can i chose to fight with MK1 that is under the locus?
I guess you didn't read all the posts
Because a couple of pages back we covered the exact interaction between SnB and LoD with FAQ backing it up.
1) Smashing and Bashing says you can fight immediately with a unit instead of later in the phase. Locus of Diversion doesn't prevent your unit from fighting, it just fights at the end of the combat phase. This is still later in the combat phase, hence why you can fight immediately with Smashing and Bashing.
2) There's a FAQ for Beasts of Chaos that says if two abilities contradict each other, the most recent one (Smashing and Bashing in this case) takes precedence over the previous effect.
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49 minutes ago, broche said:
How many drop usually is Slannesh? like 5-6?
Depends on what list. Usually it is 4 drops since they take the batallion that includes all heroes, and then 3 battlelines.
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52 minutes ago, Skumbaagh said:
Oh, sorry about that, I was refering to the phase [start of the combat phase]. A lot of people are not aware of the mechanics of "I go, you go, I go ...." in [the start of the combat phase] as well as in [the combat phase].
I forgot how the Terrorgeist stuff works, but from memory it is start of the combat phase - In this case yes, he would attack first in his own turn, then you can activate cloak (kinda pointless by now).
Slaanesh has no such thing though.
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20 minutes ago, Skumbaagh said:
Doppelganger would only work in your own turn but that may have been what you meant.
(Because in your turn you play out your activations first "at the start of the combat phase")
Why is it restricted to only our own turn? The artefact reads as follows:
"Once per battle, at the start of the combat phase, you can say that the bearer will put on the cloak. If you do so, the bearer cannot be chosen as the target of attacks made with melee weapons unless the bearer has made any attacks earlier in that phase."
At the start of the combat phase refers to either your own combat phase or the opponent's combat phase. Slaanesh doesn't have anything that lets them fight at the start of the combat phase. So even if you charge or get charged and he rolls the Locus of Diversion, you pop this and the Maw Krusha fights at the end of the combat phase without having suffered any damage.
AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion
in Destruction
Posted
I honestly have a hard time seeing Ardfist being worthwhile at all. We are so starved for CPs between Ironsunz CA and Mighty Destroyers to move/fight in hero phase etc., that spending CPs to bring Ardboyz units onto the board is probably worse than having a proper list where you buff your current units and spend CPs to fight in the combat phase etc.