Kasper
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Posts posted by Kasper
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1 hour ago, Nacnudllah said:
Everchosen player rolls dice with Yahtzee cup, peeks, but leaves the cup on top of the dice. Then, at the start of the next battle round the cup is removed revealing the roll.
This is exactly what I imagined. I already use one for all my rolls due to stinky dice from slightly sweaty hands/generally more comfy to stuff dice into the cup then shake.
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10 hours ago, Scurvydog said:
<Snip>
Come on man, nobody is saying that Seraphon is OP in a competitive environment. Your statistics are 100% irrelevant when this post is about casual games between mates that lack experience and seemingly just put random units into a list and call it a day. Absolutely nothing wrong with this. Armies have significant different power levels depending on what kind of experience the player has controlling them, fighting against them and what units are being fielded.
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1 hour ago, Sleboda said:
Just a thought, but maybe consider not calling someone with whom you disagree "stupid."
I wasn't calling him stupid, but his post? More specifically I was referring to his comment about requiring a "peer reviewed analysis".
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15 hours ago, MKsmash said:
Sir, I was talking to @Sleboda, as he had made this same comment after I lost to Petrifex the first time. Yes, I had played them before this and I was continuing a conversation. Thank you for the criticism, but please don't interfere. And if you must, see the whole conversation beforehand.
How am I supposed to know from your reply that you are continuing a conversation that apparently requires 20 pages of reading?
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1 hour ago, JPjr said:
Considering he was commenting in a thread entitled "Ossiarch Bonereapers, hideously overpowered?" that was started before any of the models or battle tome had even been released I think it's fair to say that expecting peer reviewed analysis based upon double blind tests with control groups here is, perhaps, a bit of an ask.
I dont understand your sarcasm at all and frankly find your post stupid.
I was pointing out how silly it was to try and gouge any kind of balance from a single game of 1.500 pts between what was explained as two inexperienced players.
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1 hour ago, MKsmash said:
@Sleboda I MIGHT have to change my opinion of OBR being OP.
1500 point game against em. Played as Ironjawz, who I had just got an army for and was my first game as them. Fought a Petrifex list that was meh, and the player fully admitted they forgot a lot, but... I won.
<Snip>
SO maybe OBR isnt broken. Slightly.
I hope you realize how silly it is to comment on game balance based off 1 game between two players who are doing tons of mistakes and apparently dont really know their own army.
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The exact same topic has been discussed a million times and reading through the replies there is nothing new that is being brought to the table. It feels like a dead horse by now.
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On 11/17/2019 at 7:35 PM, Waaaaaaght? said:
Dang, that's what I thought, but I hoped against it. Gotrek is very hard to damage or kill. His main weakness is just to run from him, he is pretty slow.
His warscroll base movement speed is slow, sure, but he can be buffed to run and charge etc. Is it the same threat range as a MawKrusha with MD? Not at all, but thinking he's a snail is just not true. 😛 His true weakness is endless spells imo.
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1 hour ago, tom_gore said:
I do actually agree with you that the correct playstyle for IJ is going hyper aggressive. If I had more GG models I would probably go for just that - a massive alpha strike that will wipe the table clean in one glorious combat phase. I actually did play my list pretty aggressive anyway when it came to objectives and that pretty much won me the game - although against the lists I went against were also outmatched in killing power and I would have tabled them anyway. Still, with the first and third scenario and the consecutive point gain forgetting the objectives early game is just not an option if you plan to win.
However, as I don't have more GG models and I don't plan to buy more unless I run into a better deal than buying the SC set and selling off the rest, for 2K points I'm indeed torn between BW and IJ allegiance. Taking the Ironfist is in any case a no-brainer, and model-wise I'm stuck with adding more Ardboys (which is not a bad thing). Adding Scuttletide is also nice so I would try to find room for that.
I don't think he nesscecarily means aggressive as in alphastrike lists. It's more like you really have the tools to capitalize on your opponent not screening properly, moving out of position with key units etc. Ironjawz can be super punishing with Mighty Destroyers and the Ironsunz CA.
Big Waaagh definitely lends itself towards a lot more bodies (Ardboyz) to withstand not having Smashing and Bashing imo. and then grind it out with super combat effective units.
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7 hours ago, broche said:
Anyone think Cog could still be usefull? 80 pts is expensive, but it's still a powerfull spell. Combine well with Maniak Weirnob reroll cast and/or cast bonus from da big waaagh
If you truly want to alphastrike everything turn 1 (I'm not a fan of this playstyle) - Sure I guess. Otherwise I wouldn't value it all that much since we are already rather fast (at least with MK + GGs) and wouldn't want to give the enemy too much move.
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According to the Honest Wargamer statsshow, Big Waaagh was in the top 5 of the highest win % with around 52 (from what I remember). Obviously nowhere near Slaanesh, but thought it was interesting that it was higher than Ironjawz. I would think Ironjawz (especially Ironsunz) offer some much more diverse tools against the current meta. Maybe I overestimate the overall impact of being able to charge in opponents charge phase + Smashing and Bashing compared to getting the flat +1/+1 and 6+ FNP save. Mighty Destroyers isn't as big of a deal due to Brutish Kunning and Ironfist batallion imo.
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Small “expansion packs” for the armies would be great. Fill in obvious holes and update models. Im surprised Chaos Warriors are getting an update but not Ardboyz.
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2 hours ago, Tropical Ghost General said:
So to all of those who don't want to see a change to the current system, I follow up by asking, what could be added to the game to make the decision to always take the first turn, when rolling for priority, a less attractive option and less of an auto-decision?
GW tried to use endless spells but it hasn't worked, especially now OBR and other factions have endless spells that can't damage their own models.
The tactical element of choosing which turn to take (after the initial choosing at the start of the game) rarely ever happens in games, it's more often than not take the first turn and smash your opponent.
So what could be added to the game to make this core mechanic of the game be more of a tactical decision, rather than a no-brainer decision?
Sure some armies got Endless spells that dont affect their own models, but you still got stuff like Geminids that can honestly be quite impacting. From my own experience, people are lazy and dont bother much with Endless spells.
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12 hours ago, broche said:
Also Mortek guard can only reach 3+ at best as far as i'm aware.
Afaik they reroll all failed saves though + bringing models back. Quite the tanky bois.
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I really like the +2 move since it really helps when it starts to bracket. Also gives it significantly more threat range with Mighty Destroyers. The 4+ Weird Un' is also great since it lets it stay longer on the board = Means more damage from SFV stacks. I think the other ones are too weak.
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5 hours ago, Malakree said:
Aetherquartz Broach. Ie. The mandatory artefact...
But weren't you also going Ironsunz? How are you gonna get 3?
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14 hours ago, Malakree said:
One thing I have enjoyed over the weekend is a Warchanter with Get 'Em Beat and The Sash of Ten Paradises (+2" move). It meant that I could run him, make it a 6 and be going 12" when you combine that with the 12" bubble it's actually really easy to get off even with the long bomb engages. While it's very unreliable 😑 it can be game changing when it goes off.
What else are you gonna get from the Hysh realm? If not you might as well go for Aqshy and get Thermalrider's Cloak since it's +4 and fly.
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1 hour ago, Malakree said:
Quick note, I managed to ****** up the copy paste (I was knackered last night). I was big waaagh! With Big G as the general (corrected it).
A little bit but the only unit which isn't a threat with +1 damage is the 5 ardboys, even a unit of 10 or the block of 5 will mince stuff with it.
My biggest issue came down to how slow the army is without mighty destroyers, brutes limping across the battlefield being mopped up after the game is over etc. The only way I'd play big waaagh! Over IJ is if I was running a true hybrid list.
Honestly my biggest complaints were the 15 brutes rather than spells etc. I'd swap them out for 6 more GGs and possibly even another unit of 3. My next list will probably be something like this.
Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Ironsunz
Mortal Realm: Hysh
Leaders
Orruk Warchanter (110)
Orruk Warchanter (110)
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Artefact: Sunzblessed Armour
- Mount Trait: Weird 'Un
Battleline
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
Battalions
Ironfist (160)
Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 133
2 big blocks of GGs, cabbage, weirdnob (maybe as general with 2 spells?) Hand of gork. I don't think you can overdo it on GGs they are just that good.
Your lists just seem rather alphastrikey and not built around taking damage back. I have taken some inspiration, and I have had issues with other alpha strike armies personally.
I dont mean anything bad about it, because a good offense is a valid tactic, and I often roll over people, but I have trouble vs endless spells that persist entire game and tons of screens or other armies that also alpha since the lists dont really have any proper screens. Thats why Im curious.
But yeah, Im really surprised how much damage a buffed unit of charging Spear piggies do. Im certainly gonna run atleast 1 unit of 6, maybe 2, then Ardboyz.
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19 hours ago, Malakree said:
At blood and Glory with big WAAAGH! 0-3 on the first day 😥
First game was vs terradan, super close game came down to priorities and he squeaked a major with 1 vp in the final turn.
Game 2 was vs 30 hearthguard on starstrike. Stars landed in a blob under the hearthguard, real boring nothing of note happened.
Game 3 was against cities, I thought the handgunners were the scary part of the list so activated in the wrong order. Only got 5 attacks from my ardboy boss onto his greatswords not 32 at 3s/2s(rr)/-1/2...got mopped up after they minced 10 ardboys and 6ggs in a single round of combat.
Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Choppas
Leaders
Gordrakk the Fist of Gork (540)
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- General
- Trait: Checked Out
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch
- Warbeat: Killa Beat
Battleline
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
10 x Orruk Brutes (280)
- Jagged Gore-hackas
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
Units
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
Battalions
Ironfist (160)
Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)
Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 133
This is my list. Conclusions from day 1.
I hate not having MD as a CA and miss SnB so much.
Brutes are so mediocre, I'd gladly trade the unit of 10 for 15 ardboys, that +2 to charge is massive.
Combine with dropping the unit of 5 for 3 more ggs and I'd feel so much better about the list.
I miss the ironsunz hero phase charge.
The list I was planning on running was a Da Choppas list but I forgot a weirdnob and 5 ardboys so couldn't run it. Probably last time I play big WAAAGH! Outside of tech lists which are using it for some cheeky stuff. Im definately an IJ player not a big WAAAGH!
Edit: Day 2 was utterly irrelevant. 2 curbstompings vs ppl who didn't know how to play the game...I should not be on bottom tables after round 3 anymore 😅
Dont you ever run into issues having put all your eggs in one basket? Arent opponents with quite a few Endless spells gonna be trouble with zero unbinding/dispells?
What about plague monks or witches? Wont they just run in and mob your units?
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2 hours ago, JackStreicher said:
iirc DoK lost? Legions of Nagash lost as well, Gobbos lost, Idoneth lost.
they don‘t stage those battles, they just duke it out.
@Dolomyte hard counter? The way Ossiarchs seem to be they hard counter every faction. The only points you can say about Slaanesh which they‘re not the best at are armour saves and shooting. So I don‘t see how OBR are only a hard counter to Slaanesh which is a strong melee army in a melee game. Also note that most shooting is rather lackluster (or lacks sufficient rend to deal with OBR). I am rather certain that OBR will proof too resilient to be beaten at all.
I didn't watch any of those. But did they really lose big time? Theres a difference between showcasing a new army being dumpstered and putting up a fight with one of the current kings.
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31 minutes ago, Overread said:
And yet many times the new army in Twitch streams often loses. They even comment on it several times in the twitch.
Also they went against a currently strong opponent, 3 keepers and summoning a 4th is a baptism of fire for many armies. If they'd wanted a sure victory then there are other combinations of units they could have used which would have been far weaker and sub-optimal. Honestly I think the twitch games are by and large how they are, I don't think they do a lot of nefarious things to try and tweak the results (asides for which they are live streamed games; if there were clear and unfair bias it would defeat the point of the marketing.
I have never watched a twitch stream where the new army loses big time. Now it also helps that new armies tend to be quite strong, but it makes no sense to showcase a match where the new army is doing terrible. Not exactly setting themselves up for a good sale.
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Who would have guessed that the army performed well in a battle rep specifically made to showcase and create more hype around said new army.
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25 minutes ago, broche said:
Yeah I think 'win more' was not the right term here.
You definitly need MD to win game. Pre-battletome, when I was activating MD to fight once or twice per turn, I would usually win those games.
However in games I was not able to use it (because my model were dying to fast) I was generally losing.Popping back model is the kind of ability that can make the difference in those contest.
If you apologize and promose to paint 20 Ardboyz, I'll let you off the hook.
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15 hours ago, broche said:
I think Ardfist is not the best match with ironsunz honestly. But it's certainly the most potent bataillion we have IMO. Of course it's all theory because i doubt I'll ever play it due to the insane amount of Ardboys needed.
Still fact is, summoning mechanic are quite powerfull. It doesnt prevent you from using Mighty destroyer. It just give you the extra ability to convert each CP. A lot of current top army have no mean of sniping him.
Mighty destroyer is a powerful ability, but kind of has 'win more tag'. Meaning if you are able to activate it 2-3 time, that mean you still have model on the table and probably in pretty good shape overall. On the other hand,
let say your sitting with 3 CP (and obviously the brooch) and get double turned against Slanesh loosing a big chunk of your army, I'll clearly spend 3-4 command point to try to bring 10-20 more ardboys.
CP will resplendish quickly enough on your turn anyway.I don't see Mighty Destroyers as a "win more" ability at all, but I think the "issue" is that most of us have played Ironjawz as an alphastrike list that can't take a lot of punch. After having watched Leo Rautonen play his Ironjawz vs Slaanesh, I could certainly see a much slower and defensive playstyle with tons of Ardboyz where you let your opponent get the double turn and you sort of rely on your opponent to charge you, then countercharge important hammer units with Ironsunz CA and when your turn rolls around you have a load of stuff locked in combat during the hero phase and ready to smash.
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AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion
in Destruction
Posted
They are slowly starting to show up now :P https://thehonestwargamer.com/aos-results-2nd-december-2019/