Turin Turambar
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Posts posted by Turin Turambar
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30 minutes ago, xking said:
When Lord-Arcanum Lynus Ghalmorian died as mortal his bones had fossilized and was long dead before Sigmar claimed him. So the Age of Myth was minimum 10,000 years.
there was a forest a couple years back that fossilized in a few weeks (as a result of a natural disaster). fossilisation is a result of a chemical reaction, not heat and pressure.
(Derek Briggs and Amanda Kear also preformed a laboratory experiement (which has been peer reviewed) that showed that fossilisation can take place in 2 weeks, and theoretically even more quickly.)
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my 2 cents on predictions:
Teclis is trying to recreate old high elves, so I would expect him to try and have units that fill the generic units within the high elves (so spearmen [check], silverhelms [check], archers [very likely check], bolt thrower, and chariot). Teclis was also heavily related to hoeth, and as they were in the reveal trailer for pointy elves, sword masters/2 handed swordsmen is quite likely, as are reavers
for monsters/monstrous mounts dragons or very dragon like (in appearance or ability) is quite likely due to being something very intertwined with high elf armies, as are great eagles or something very similar to great eagles, so both of those are quite likely. I imagine one or both of the units we've seen will be duel kits. the cavalry being silverhelm and reaver equivalents and the infantry being either spearmen and archer equivalents or spearmen and swordmaster equivalents. I also imagine the mounted heroe will be a duel kit, and riding a dragon-like thing. being the equvilent to the dragon-lord/dragon-mage kit, and I imagine we'll get mage and non-mage generic foot heroes. I think 2 more non-behemoth, non-hero, non-artillery kits are a given. as well as atleast 1 behemoth.
personally I would like...
2 infantry kits: spearmen/swordmasters (spearmen in this army being professionals rather then the citizen soldiers of uthuan) and archers/medium infantry [medium infantry is probably unrealistic to expect tho, think roman legionaries; shields, javelins and swords, shock troops. i just think the concept fits elves well), 1 horse cavalry kit: lance cav (as seen) and horse archers, 1 eagle cavalry/rider kit: lance and archer variants (able to use magic?), 1 dragon rider kit, being the mounted hero and behemoth combined: lord/general and mage versions. lastly 2 more foot heroes and eltharion, 1 being mage, 1 being leftenant hero
the issue with my hopes is that the eagle riders might be too similar in role to the horse stuff, and having swordmasters being a grade above spearmen probably works better for game purposes (and medium infantry is an unlikely concept)
On 1/25/2020 at 6:17 AM, Acid_Nine said:Unfortunately I think end times made sure that realm was destroyed by slaanesh and a betrayal by bretonnia. but there could be fluff referencing this, maybe as a source of power to avoid the flaws that the idoneth and Daughters have?
I know this is a late reply, but it was not destroyed in the end times. chaos learns of it and the main characters loose contact with it and they assume it was destroyed but later in another book they reveal it was cut off due to chaos influence on the world that was. so chaos has likely tried to destroy it but it has not been confirmed either way.
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38 minutes ago, Toptramp said:
the spears are not next gen models either, looks like mono pose with a choice of spear 40 or 45 degrees - less dynamic that when this was rank and file (which they would fit nicely into)
i agree that these gies could have been a little more dynamic.
imagine if they had the basic poses here mixed with 6th edition eternal guard poses (these wardens seem to be useing 2 handed spears). mixed with 1 handed poses (like those of the old high elf spearmen, aswell as over arm thrusts, and more non-fighting running poses).
maybe they have limited dynamics in the poses due to being a dueltripple kitt. the more options a kitt has usually results in less variety of poses (as all the weapon options need to go well with the body positions) and less dynamic positions. if this is the case i can imagine the start collecting mono-pose kits will be more dynamic (if they choose to do mono-pose start collecting kitts)
alternatively it could be done on purpose if there is a more skirmishy/moble infantry unit that they would want to contrast with. thus create a clearer visual range between a units in game ability?
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I think that old rumour engine must be part of this release,
because "wheat"...
and the aelven swirls
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I love the units so far (but not the biggest fan of their paint scheme, I will definitely use less white), but am hoping they get a more 'monstrous' cavalry unit in the near future as well (eagle cav, eagle cav)
also really love The Light of Eltharion, It would be cool if they get an elite unit of similar liveing armor, but at the same time it would be cool to keep Eltharion unique.
Eltharion's helmet and the dragon banner the cavalry have, give me hope for eagles/griffons/bird-thingies and dragons in the future tho.
now i just need to create a new pic that combines the 2 units and Eltharion...
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On 1/22/2020 at 11:45 AM, Neverchosen said:
Hello everyone,
I am very interested in the upcoming 'pointy aelves' and the lore surrounding the return of Teclis. I know it is highly improbable, but I hope that Tyrion is not part of the army and that he becomes a patron god for the Idoneth Deepkin. I would also like if the two factions easily allied with one another, despite obvious tensions. The rules for including Stormcast in Cities of Sigmar set a very good precedent. Furthermore, I hope there are specific rules (a battalion perhaps) for fielding the twins alongside units from both armies.
I also hope for a similar situation for Malerion's Aelves and the Daughters of Khaine.Tyrion had his own set of elf souls, so he will have his own breed of aelves made. but a Tyrion worshiping Idoneth subfaction would be cool
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7 hours ago, Public Universal Duardin said:
Ps. Silmarillion is magnificent and my favourite novel of his - and perhaps of all time - because it really feels like a real collection of myths of biblical proportions, showcasing that Tolkien was a true scholar. No wonder everyone else apes after him in worldbuilding. Also, elves became truly interesting in it, showing how their nature meant a fallen elf would go far deeper than any human would (see: Fëanor).
the Silmarillion is also my favourite of his.
its a pitty he never really wrote about the war of wrath.
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give me elven eagle and hawk cavalry and eagle chariots and eagle warwagons, glorious it would be.
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3 hours ago, Athrawes said:
...
(The mysterious Aelves of Hysh are almost ready to be revealed - and at their head is Teclis..)
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a.) Tyrion gave his share of souls to Teclis to craft, (which seems unlikely),
b.) That this faction will be comprised of both Teclis Light aelves, and Tyrion Light aelves, which would seemingly make this a huge potential range of miniatures, or finally
c.) That this faction is just Teclis', showcasing what he did with the rest of his souls and that Tyrion's Aelves are still waiting in the wings alongside Malerion.
Others may certainly disagree, but based on the only evidence we currently have, I find the latter possibility the most likely.
I would argue that the Aelves of Hysh would include Tyrion's aelves.
B and C are the most likely. possibly even starting as C and later turning into B when Tryion's aelves are made into models.
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12 hours ago, Athrawes said:
Well, from the Daughters of khaine, Idoneth and Slaanesh Books, we know that Morathi, Malerion, Tyrion and Teclis each get a share of the aelf souls to remake as they see fit.
Focusing on the latter pair, it seems likely to me that while Teclis' first batch of Aelves became Idoneth, the rest of his "share" are becoming the pointy aelves being previewed.
I feel like Tyrion will not be in this faction at all, save for a few mentions, and he will get his own faction of aelves down the road.
Honestly It seems like Teclis' faction will be a straight up re-imagining of old world High elves, while Tyrion when his time comes will get the "angelic Aelves" that were alluded to in older material. As I just don't see pointy aelves and angelic aelves combined into the same faction.
I think it is possible to have 2+ different types of light aelves in this faction. Aelven 'chambers' so to speak.
this line: "Did any of his aelven races aside from the Idoneth survive?" from the article, implies that Teclis made more than 2 races of aelves with his batch of souls. I wouldn't be suprised if they end up doing multiple 'chambers' for this faction each with a different race of aelves made either by Teclis or Tyrion.
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i find his oversized cheak plates a little funny, as in i am almost sure 1 of GW's designers is obsessed with limited head rotation/field of view.
that said i really like where this is seemingly going
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5 minutes ago, Gothmaug said:
I agree, there’s no way the affects of slannesh were totally purged. Now what’s more important to Teclis, looks or content? Are we going to get perfect physical elves with dark inner flaws, or perfect heroic elven souls stuck in partially twisted physical forms?
I don’t know enough about Teclis to know if his personality would prefer the former or latter? Is he an egotistical madman bent on restoring the historic appearance of the aelves, no matter the cost, or is he more benevolent and accepts imperfect physical forms but with purified souls?
I would expect near perfect outer forms, with multiple harder to notice at first inner flaws.
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6 hours ago, Koradrel of Chrace said:
That said, I find it interesting the couple pics of concept art they highlighted. They showed archers, spearmen, Ellyrian Reavers, and Swordmasters. They then ended with Teclis' concept art, followed by what we assume is his new model's silhouette. So I wonder if those particular models are some of the ones being re-imagined?
what do you suppose the chances are that we will see units that are along the lines of these units as part of the first wave?
also what do you gies think the chances are for more sisters of the thorn type units, as in mage units. being a big thing in atleast Teclis's army.
speaking of which I am hoping both twins get similar but different styles, and are part of this army (with Tyrion being wave 2?)
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2 hours ago, Koradrel of Chrace said:
I hate to say it, but I doubt we'll ever see a real dragon rider again. GW wants things they can own the IP of.
you mean like snake women and bed sheet ghosts? and if you think GW has changed these concepts enough for DoK and Night Haunt then why wouldn't snake-like dragons be modified alittle to still be clearly a descendant of dragon rider concept but be more clearly 'GW' (if they even care for such things beyond names)
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22 minutes ago, EccentricCircle said:
So we have:
WFB: High Elves, Dark Elves, Wood Elves (3 armies)
40K: Craftworld Eldar, Dark Eldar, Harlequins, Ynnari (4 Armies)
Putative 40K: Exodites, Corsairs (2 armies)
AoS major factions: Cities of Sigmar, Daughters of Khaine, Sylvaneth, Idoneth (4 Armies)
Putative AoS armies: Kurnothi, Pointy Elves, Shadow Elves (3 armies)
AoS minor factions: Wanderers, Darkling Covens, Scourge Privateers, Shadowblades, Order Serpentis, Order Draconis, Phoenix Temple, Swifthawk Agents, Eldritch Council, Lion Rangers (10 Armies)
I make that 26 different flavours of Elves, so I think we beat both the Space Marines and the Stormcast combined!
the mayflies (ex-mayflies?) and mon-keigh could never compete in the first place *arrogant elf noises*
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On 1/10/2020 at 11:23 AM, Public Universal Duardin said:
I'm still holding onto the hope that Teclis managed to snatch a few Bretonnian souls (weren't they sent to some pocket dimension during End Times?) to reforge as elves. I can accept that I'll never see my noblebright frenchmen going on jolly good high adventures ever again but I'd love to get at least a cavalry unit of Grail Elves.
fear not, for the old world cometh in 3(+) years, and the mighty warriors of the Lady will ride again.
however, as for AoS, both Louen became a god, and the lady's daughter (unnamed) god are with the grail knights souls (amongst other bretonnians). i doubt those 2 gods would let them be reforged by Teclis without being for shadowed in the lore.
as for Hysh aelves, super exited, can't wait!
hopeing for eagles (or eagle-like birds) to be a big part of this faction, dragons are also cool tho.
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15 minutes ago, EccentricCircle said:
I love the idea of Exodites as much as the next person, but are they actually a functional faction? I know they don't have models, but do they actually have rules this edition?
All of Age of Sigmar's Elven factions (DoK, Syl, IDK, CoS) are completely playable, functional factions. We are pretty sure that Pointy Elves and Kurnothi will soon be too when they get their books. If Exodites are in a state of waiting for a book then I'd agree, but they are sort of the Ur-ancestor to all of our speculation about Light and Shadow Elves. If I were to guess I'd say we'll see the Shadow Elves before the 40K lot see their exodites, though I'd love to be wrong!
I believe the last time the exodites had rules was 2nd (maybe 3rd?) edition. however they still exist.
On that note, there is a faction with models and rules (although they can't work on their own in 8th edition 40k due to haveing lost the rules for HQs) space elf pirates, the Eldar Corsairs. plus they are playable in the battlefleet gothic PC games.
that makes it, what 6 to 11 elven armies?
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I don't see any reason why GW would not want at least partial crossover between AoS and the old world. if someone buys models for one game they are encouraged to buy the remaining models for the other game.
I can easily see them have certain, less fantastical units only be used in the old world. and certain very fantastical units only be used in AoS. and then units that don't look out of place in both settings be usable in both games.
essentially each army with crossover will have 3 styles, or 3 groups within a spectrum: old world, AoS and one that fits into both.
Daemons of chaos already do this with AoS and 40k, so i don't see why GW wouldn't take the opportunity to do this with more armies.
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3 hours ago, EccentricCircle said:
Ah, but its not about their aesthetic, but about their popularity as a whole.
Certainly Stormcast are emulating the Space Marine Aesthetic, and have taken their same place as the marketing poster child. However if you think about warhammer as a whole, Elves are consistently one of the most popular groups of factions.They are up there with Chaos as the only race to have three different armies in the Old World. High Elves, Wood Elves, and Dark Elves. Humans only had two, the three Chaos Armies were much more distinct from one another than the elven ones, and poor Dwarves lost their evil kin after a while. Age of Sigmar has continued this trend to the point where people have argued that Elves should be their own grand alliance. We've got what? Blood Elves, Sea Elves, Tree Elves (if you count Sylvaneth) and potentially Beast Elves and Pointy Elves coming up, plus the remnants of the three older factions. That's again almost as many flavours as you have within Chaos, and more than you currently have in either Death and Destruction.
If you include 40K in the equation there have also been very popular armies of Space Elves and Evil Space Elves, in addition to all of their fantasy kin. The Space Orks have never had as much variety, and the poor Space Dwarves not just got removed from the game, but leant their name to the very process by which things do get removed from the game.
I thus think that its safe to say that Elves/Eldar as a whole are second in popularity only to the Space Marines.
don't forget space clown elves
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11 hours ago, Baron Klatz said:
People are on the fence if the Silver Tower mistweaver is Ulgu or Hysh since her armor has Teclis and Tyrion symbols but if she is then she uses some mighty twisted magic that drives enemy's so mad they claw their own faces off.
"the Mistweaver Saih is a sinister figure hailing from the Realm of Shadow."-https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NL/mistweaver-saih
I don't see how there can be people on the fence
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29 minutes ago, Gaz Taylor said:
I hope not! I remember playing historical games when I was younger and the club I played at treated them as simulations, which basically led to arguments about what X could do against Y. As a child this put me off any game which tries to do this!
Personally I’m hoping for something a bit like Warmaster and WFB. I think they will cherry pick the best bits from all games they have made over the years. Like @RuneBrush mentioned earlier, we remember the best bits more easily than the bad bits and I think a lot of games we used to play would seem clunky or not quite right.
I see those arguements in warhammer circles just as much as in historicals
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now to apply by 7 reasons to AoS
1- many enemies are heavily armoured, but there are other fanatasy weapons that can penetrate armour
2-there are things scarier then load noises in AoS
3-while applies to many factions, super-humans (and super human level stuff) and undead are not necessarily affected. atleast not to the same extent
4-its probably the same or very similar in AoS, except for magical enchantments which can make storage easier
5-very useful, you can train your men to be more disaplined and thus more likely to stand and fight that Orruk/etc
6-free cities
7-endless war = lots of old soldiers (well compared to real life)
guns should be (and are?) common in AoS to those that know how to make them and aren't hyper magical. so ordinary humans, duardin , skaven, etc. provided they don't have better tech or aren't limited by the guns makers.
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16 hours ago, Overread said:
The sky was going dark and there was a wall of arrows pelting down from the skies.
this is a myth and/or exaggeration, we know English longbow men never fired in high arcs IRL. it is never described or depicted as such by eye witnesses or training manuscripts.
most people likely wouldn't even know what who the longbowman are, let alone know they are supposed to be scared. and those that knew also knew their armour was good enough to stop the arrows (note how long bows only ever defeated mounted knights, or foot knights in mud, most evidence suggests the arrows do very little to most knights)
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On 1/9/2020 at 5:42 AM, Overread said:
A few thoughts and some (likely inaccurate but at least rough) history ideas too
1) Consider the real world for a moment. Guns started to replace bow and arrow not because guns were better weapons. In fact they were not really all that good and not better than a well trained bowman. The problem is that it takes a lifetime to train a bowman (esp if you get to something like the old English Longbowman). Basically you have to spend money as a nation to have your bowmen trained up from a young age. That means spending on them even in times of peace so that you've got them for times of war. The upper body has to develop very differently in order to achieve both strength and speed needed to make bow units effective (typically they weren't shooting like Robin Hood - instead they were shooting masses of arrows into the air forming a blanket of shafts that would rain down death on the enemy).
Furthermore as your bowmen take a long time to train up, any losses of them are more keenly felt because you can't just grab any old people and give them a bow and expect them to perform well.
Enter the gun - a weapon that was pretty inaccurate, not as long ranged (certainly before rifling was developed and commonly used) and quite dangerous if wrongly used. But you could train up regiments of green recruits to shoot a gun really fast. They didn't need years of body building, just basic fitness and the ability to point and pull the trigger. The Crossbow was another technological revolution that also had the same benefit, the ability to train people to use them quickly. Meaning that a nation could buy the weapons, but not train up troops until they needed them; and also that any losses could be replaced fairly quickly.
So even without magic or anything else, a bow unit remains quite effective for a fairly long period of time. If your nation can replace the archers and provide them in volume then its not as keenly felt when you take losses. Now AoS should, in theory, lean heavily toward guns because of the massive losses possible in war; however at the same time as the whole age is a state of war you can bet that the finances of paying for archers long term is considered very important - so there's likely funding right there to train them up.
this is for those interested bows became fall out of use in the 16th century (in Europe), bows and guns co-existed for ages (since the 14th century, in Europe) before this there were legitimate positives to both weapons.
note the 16th century is when European armies became professional armies full time armies (as pike formations require alot of training to be more then immobile blocks, amongst other reasons which i may get to), so the idea it requires less training is (probably) less of an important factor (historically)
the reasons:
1-guns do have much greater armour penetration then both longbows, composite bows and crossbows, when good quality armour (relative) became widespread as a result of watermill 'powered' furnaces making it cheap to produce, so called munitions armor, mass produced hardened steel breastplates and helmets. armour strong enough to stop longbows and crossbows was now the cost of a weeks wages for the average infantry man. bows went from being able to kill 70-90% of then enemy to less then 40%, bullet proof armour would exist even as far as ww2 (see soviet steel vests) cheap enough to equip elite units with, but the majority of an army would always be vulnerable to guns.
in this sense guns replaced bows in Europe due to armour, in asia the ability to produce such relatively high quality armour in large amounts never (really) happened, hence bows were still used intill the 1800s.(combined with the relative ease of producing high equality bows)
one can indeed say guns replaced bows because they were better weapons, for their targets.
2-guns are scary, guns make loud noises that scare horses and men (who are not used to it), entire french heavy cavalry charges were broken through the sound of Spanish guns alone (according to some sources) before they were even in effective range. bows can never do this, metal-arm crossbows are also load and had similar effects when they were first used enmasse, but they are not as load as guns (especially artillery guns). guns also have 'quicker hits', the projectiles travel faster and thus the effect of a volley is more quickly felt which combined with the sound is very terrifying. not even the famed Swiss pike could handle it before training methods were devised. the use of guns forces your enemy to spend more time training their troops and make militia almost worthless (as a single volley can cause them to route) bows do not have this effect.
3-guns require less stamina then bows, a unit of bows may fire faster but they will tire out, guns and windlass crossbows do not take much effort to load at their maximum speed. thus the effect of a long march is less on hand-gunners then archers and a battle can be faught for longer (over a number of consecutive days) without significant negative effects on your army. this is extremely useful.
4-ammunition for guns is actually cheaper. while needing simple materials, arrows require highly skilled workers to make, and alot of time to make, and do not store well (they need to be stored in cool, dry conditions and with lots of room and are easily damaged by rough transportation) compared to musket balls (very easy to make and store) and gunpowder, you can make it very easily the only issue being sulphur, and stores easier then arrows (if only because it only requires dry, temperature, rough handleing and space isn't a big issue), bowstrings also do not work when wet, so the idea of wetting powder as the only downside for storage seems like a big break.
minor reasons:
5-is the training, it takes less time to learn to use. so you can spend more time training your men to face up to gun volleys and cavalry charges.
6-Urbanization, Urban populations do not have the space for practicing archery (historically), this makes expecting an elite archer army to be unrealsitic (the position England found itself in the 1590s when longbows were discarded.
7-soldiers life time, an old soldier can load, aim and fire a gun just as quickly and accurately as a young one given the same drill time.
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The Rumour Thread
in Age of Sigmar Discussions
Posted
"Well, lads, lasses and enby pals, this is where I think my stop on the hype train comes. I wanted overly-emotional (Kin-strife! Kin-strife!) Silmarillion elves, not the arrogant and aloof LOTR elves! I am most likely hyperbolic right now, but this really feels like Eldar: AoS Edition with similar history, personality and both carry magic stones on them (albeit for different purposes, hahahah!). And nothing against Lumineth or Eldar - or anyone who wants more arrogant elves - but they aren't for me. The models are still cool and I'll gladly follow what kinds of Lumineth we'll still be teased with"-@Public Universal [my quoting they didn't want to quote his post]
I wouldn't worry too much, to me it looks like their flaw is too much emotion and that the aetherquartz slowly ("eventually") drains their emotions. thus I think there is plenty of room for overly-emotional elves in the younger Lumineth and those that refuse to walk the standard path (like eldar outcasts in 40k). It also adds a potential for an interesting internal conflict within the faction. the younger elves will be overly-emotional battling with control, middle-aged elves are going to have normal levels of emotion and older elves will have little to no emotion. and then outcasts won't even try to drain their emotion. if you think generational frictions IRL and for humans is bad, imagine what it is like for Lumineth who have potentially massive differences in emotional experiences and thus behavior and perspectives.
lol
I get the impression that there are going to be multiple types of elves made by each god. Teclis has made (at the very least) the idoneth and lumineth. Morathi has made her snake ladies, her winged ladies and her slave class.
Malerion is likely going to have multiple different creations aswell. the mistweaver and CoS shadow blades are already from the realm of shadow in the lore, so its also possible that Malerion's army will include non-slaaneshi digested elves (who will look like the mistweaver) aswell as his own twisted creations.