Charleston
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Posts posted by Charleston
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Nice to see Despoilers get some more spotlight right now with Bela coming around! It's my favourite legion and I always wondered why it often looks like people don't play it (well, althrough I have to add that using the always-fights-first-sheningans can feel quite powergamey)
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Ok, my bet:
- Book does not wholly play in curernt narrative time but instead in a longer period in the past with a block playing in current time
- Belakor shemes how to get in controll of the Mortal realms for Chaos and how to get rid of Mortals since the fall of the World that was.
- Some Plotpoints of the past become tied to Belakor. Maybe he pitched Nagash the Idea with the Necroquake and Shyish Nadir? Who knows, maybe he even told the Great Horned Rat to stop it. Remember that prior to the Necroquake Daemons were only able to get a foot on the Mortal Realms for a limited time and disappeared.
- His absence from the Plot will be explained with a long term war on many fronts outside the realms against the Seraphon (which would also explain in hindsight why they were not part of the current narrative)
- After Teclis ended the Soul Wars, Belakor goes into phase 2, something related to Chamon and beeing done with Tzeentch together. Maybe a new spell to let more deamons enter the Mortal Realms? Kharadron Fleets find this by accident and call for aid. Seraphon, led by Kroak, already were looking for Belakor and now come to help
- Seraphon interrupt Belakor, but too late. Bela gains a new power, maybe inspired by Nagash's prior soul siphoning. As SCE arrive Bela has already the power to cath their souls and turn them into limitless power, new deamons or whatever. Similar to this he manages to siphon on the Seraphon who are not coalesced.
- Belakor leaves the battle and heads with his deamons to the ols fortress of Nagash, using his absence after the lost battle with Teclis. Soulblight Gravelords who guard the city let him pass without battle as all was planned along to weaken Nagash even more and get rid of the Nighthaunt.
- Belakor uses the remains of Nagash's Gravestone-Pyramid to recreate a Shyish Nadir, a giant soul siphon, this time to use thoose souls to feed Chaos and twist them into new deamon kohorts. SCE, Seraphon come to stop him. The Nighthaunt, seeing this as an existential threat, come to get rid of the invader. They form an unlikely Alliance with SCE and Seraphon against the common foe.
- Who wins? Who's next?
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Okay, I think I have my first go-to-list that I attempt to build for. It is quite a mixed Hagg Narr List from the Models I have available right now:
Spoiler
Allegiance: Daughters of Khaine
- Temple: Hagg Nar
Leaders
Bloodwrack Medusa (100) Magic Defense and Source of Mindrazor
- Lore of Shadows: Mindrazor
Hag Queen (90) Shall allow to move an Avatar turn 1.
Slaughter Queen on Cauldron of Blood (270) Shall work as support with the Cauldron but also after turn 2 once the Avatar is awoken she shall pray for the rune and then rush into the enemy blending as much as possible.
- Prayer: Catechism of Murder
Melusai Ironscale (110) Required as general to make my Snake Ladies work as battleline.
- General
- Command Trait: Devoted Disciples
- Artefact: The Ulfuri
Battleline
30 x Witch Aelves (300) The blending Party.
- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives
5 x Blood Stalkers (140) I guess they work fine on backfield objectives and can take their chance at finishing of single models.
10 x Blood Sisters (260)
Units
10 x Doomfire Warlocks (240) I see some potential here for models that can run for objectives in the late game.
5 x Khinerai Lifetakers (80) The Lifetakers are supposed to work as turn 1 blender. With 14" and Mindrazor on them I see potential to hurt something as early as turn 1 with their 11 -2 Rend D3 attacks.
Behemoths
Avatar of Khaine (130) I like thoose dudes. They make prayers more reliable and also hit quite hard. Only downside is the requirement of a priest to move one of them turn 1.
Avatar of Khaine (130)
Battalions
Scathcoven (140) +1 CP, +1 Artifact and Bravery immunity for Khinerai and Melusai
Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 133As I still have to assemble the Shrine and the Meusai I am still concidering how to build them. Any advice for the list?
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8 minutes ago, silverstu said:
I watched that Grimdark Live video where they talked about 3rd - they said the Indomitus type box for AoS was coming in June, the main release fo 3rd was in July.. might make it difficult to squeeze in another BR book, but PA:Pariah came out just before Indomitus so maybe?? Don't know how accurate their rumours have been though- I think the dates for Belakor etc came from elsewhere..
If Broken Realms follows the Psychic Awakening Sheme it is likely that the last BR book will give us a final hint at the story theme of 3.0.
But to be honest: I dont care. I just want to know all about that sweet Belakor book!
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4 minutes ago, Ragest said:
No, those are different rumors, Belakor and Cursed city dates were leaked by a Spanish youtube channel, LRL were just a guessing and 3rd in July is from another guy
But, if you ask me, 3rd in July is a reality
This would mean a last BR:book in June. As each BR book so far included a single story chapter and things happen quite parallel, I don´t know what to expect for 3.0 kickoff as story hook. Althrough Godrakk's assault on Azyr is a good bet, it could end up beeing a BR book.
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2 hours ago, Kadeton said:
I kind of agree with this, but at the same time I suspect there's quite a narrow "sweet spot". If units are too slow or take too long to kill, the game becomes a dull slog.
Keeping the game moving at a good pace (e.g. melee being quick and decisive, units having the speed to jump on tactical opportunities) is a good thing. But power creep is always going to be pushing us out of the sweet spot and having to be reined back in.
Yeah, AoS suffers as much of this "Too Fast, Too Furious" effect as late 40k 8th Edition did. Both games had a similar start that was a total reset, reducing the rules to a minimum, Then both were bloated by adding more stuff to diversify "your dudes".
I recall days of late AoS 1.0 in which you mostly didn´t have to check up warscrolls as many minatures followed a pattern in design.SpoilerHeavy Armor unit? I bet it has a 4+ save! It´s a hero? So +1 and it will be 3+. Knowing factions meant simple things like "SCE have 2 lifes" and the information for this could be piggybacked by the models design. With 2.0 I stumbled on so many "Wait, your army can do WHAT?" situations that I stopped wondering. Each new tome broke thoose comfy design patterns. Newer rules broke limits set before. A small list of patterns broken or wattered up:
- 6+ Armor for "barbaric" hordes like Moonclan, Skaven and Chaos Cultists
- 5+ for Light Armored units like Aelves and some humans
- 4+ for heavy armoured units.
- 4+ hitting on average models. +1/-1 depending whether it was an elite warrior or a mob peasant
- More elite units received more life
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Each faction had specific rules that were common between warscrolls. Shields are a nice example:
- StD Shields provided a 5+ against MW's
- Undead Shields provided +1 save as long as the opponent didn´t used rend
GW stopped with such patterns. Factions can no longer be compared with the same scale. CoS for example contains several 3+ armor units that are no heroes, Seraphon even had (have?) a 1+ save. We have several units with a 1+ to hit/wound value. And while GW tries to push and improve several warscrolls with redesigns, thoose pushes came often by the price of breaking thoose patterns that were like a second ruleset of the game. This second layer helped the overall game structure and explains why many rules read like a mess. Take for example the "Effect on Value" rules like MW's on a 6+ to hit. Many factions had a reccuring effect on many warscrolls that was tied to the same condition. Sunmetal Weapons for example. The rule is easy to memorize and is tied to all of your units with that kind of weapon. But then weird singular exceptions happen, like Swordmasters that have 2 differnt kinds of attacks but no sunmetal rule despite having sunmetal weapons in the name. GW is breaking rules their designers created themself, maybe due to a missing understanding for their value. There was a design space with clear borders and it is a common issue that limited design spaces can get crowded with time passing. But simply expanding design space by violating the old patterns feels lazy and disruptive. Models that have to be protected from beeing killed like Morathi, Ghazkhul or Gotrek are a simple confession that the game design is so out of controll they can´t match the rules in a way that make their centerpieces hold longer than a turn without writing it hard into the rules.
In the end there is still the fact that people like winning and like new powerfull rules because they feel good. And gw can easier sell a product that feels good. That's why they tend to use this shortcut by designing even gooder stuff.
But criticism should always also have a productive side to it: 8th Edition reset with the Index rules showed how gw can handle a full reset of a system. I belive that the Alligience/Suballigience System could be potentially removed from the Tomes and Factions on their own. Most suballigience rules are actually interchangable. Wanna have fun? Try playing Sylvaneth Anvilguard or Fyreslayer Celestial Vindicators. By providing shared pool of such abilities and maybe even artifacts that are shared between great alliances, GW could open up a quite complex and interesting new supplement product.
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54 minutes ago, Zamik said:
I'd really like if there were some allegiance ability that would let you either remove the Hero keyword from certain five-wound heroes or allow you to take 2-3 of them in one Hero slot. I think it would be a neat way to represent the highly competitive nature of leadership in Khorne armies--every single warrior wants to be a warlord, so why shouldn't Khorne as a faction be able to bend the normal Hero rules? You could call the ability "Gorechosen" and select 2-3 5-wound heroes to occupy one Leader slot.
Somewhat like Lieutenants in 40k sharing a single Slot?
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I've made some toughts about how a possible improvement to the BoK could look rulewise. Below are some ideas of mine. I would love to see some feedback on them, maybe someone feels fun enough to playtest them.
Alligience Abilities:
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Waves of Murder
- Each Khorne unit that performed a successfull charge this turn is affected by Waves of Murder until end of turn.
- Whenever a Khorne Hero without the Monster Keyword performs a successfull charge, this unit can not be picked as target for shooting attacks until the next hero phase.
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Locust
- Reroll all hits when performed a charge and within 16" of a Khorne Hero.
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Blood Tithe
- Blood Tithe points no longer get lost after using a blood tithe related ability. Each ability can be only used once a turn if not stated otherwise.
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Prayers and Judgement
- Allign with DoK change (only one prayer per priest + Judgement and no longer Warscroll prayer+ Alligience Prayer + Judgement)
- Rework Brass Icon so it no longer makes more model flee but instead disables rules that allow to automatically pass bravery tests
- Remove the healing Spell. Khorne doesn´t provide healthcare.
- Add a prayer that allows models in chosen unit to fight after death ("berserk rule") if it not have already such an ability. If target has already such an ability, instead provide +1 Attack
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Suballigiences:
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Use Waves of Murder as hook to provide some usefull buffs that allow to diversify the gameplay. This could look like the following:
- Affected Unit gets the "Berserk" rule allowing to fight after death. This could allow more damage against opponents hammer units.
- Affected Unit gets additional Rend or Attack on Meele weapons.
- Affected Unit fights first. This would provide Khorne a 40k-like attack order which is quite nice. The example below shows how it could be worded
- GORETIDE: GORETIDE units affected by the Waves of Murder may be selected to fight before other units in the fight phase.
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Use Waves of Murder as hook to provide some usefull buffs that allow to diversify the gameplay. This could look like the following:
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Waves of Murder
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5 minutes ago, Howdyhedberg said:
Who are the order of azyr? Is that a keyword for the new CoS heroes in the cursed city?
In Lore thoose are a faction similar to the Inquisition of 40k, althrough with lesser power. It is a secret order within Cities that allign with Sigmar that take care of some busines. They are also informants and spies for sigmar.
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2 hours ago, Neverchosen said:
I think it is strange as Be'Lakor is coming and we have seen some preview engines hinting at new chaos stuff (not clear if it is AOS or 40K) but also nothing even hinting at more chaos releases. I am both excited and financially worried about what is around the corner. Be'Lakor I can justify new slaves to darkness units... now things are getting dicey 😅
As we don´t have an official BR:Belakor Announcement yet, I see there potential for a teaser of an upcoming release. Also, we have 3.0 rumoured to be the next edition and so far I have not picked up a single rumour about what could be the next faction in the set. We know of the upcoming narrative with the siege of azyr, but this could be "just" a campaign and not the new editions uptake like Soul Wars was. So there is chance that in the new Starterbox we actually see different factions than Orruks. To be honest, after GW rewrote Stormcasts to be more sinister and didn´t force them on us like they to with Space Marines in 40k I get more and more curious if maybe we see a starter set without SCE included. But thoose are not more than wild theories.
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A friend who was active in WHFB tournaments some time ago told me that it is always a good go to build a list of outside the meta as man people won´t see what is comming for them. When you expect all current meta-lists, it is likely that a Yheti list suprises you so much you recognize what it is up too when it is too late.
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The BoK Tome was a lazy carryover from the 1.0 tome. The changes were mostly wording updates to bring the book in line with the new edition, some alligience abilities and buffs to Bloodthirsters to sell more of them. The few reworks we had were there to simplify the faction. There is a huge mismatch between lore and gameplay. While Khorne is supposed to be played recklessly, it actually can´t as you die on the spot asap as you leave a single buff bubble. The internal balance is a huge mess that punishes lists that don´t use Bloodthirsters, Slaughterpriests and Bloodsecrators. We have many "just don´t pick them" units, many of them heroes and daemon options (like Bloodcrushers, Skullcannons and most heralds). Bloodreavers have many trap rules that suggest to build around them to increase their attacks, which in reality simply doesn´t work.
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Btw, I wouldn´t wonder if the Vampire without the helmet with the Bat-Hair would be a hero option
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Belakor alternative fishing pose with net and rubber-river-trousers confirmed!
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16 hours ago, Tizianolol said:
Ok thx , battletome said 7 mortal units plus hero. But I have understood!!:) thx
Oh, sorry, you are actually right! I tought it was the gods holy number including the hero. So it is 7 units and 8 units affected by the battalion
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Some funny thing that come to my mind: Imagine your rection to the current state of the game when beeing told about it shortly before 2.0 launch. Like, imagine telling your past self about Idoneth Deepkin, Lumineth and Bonereapers and how you like or dislike the differences between Invocations and Endless Spells. Imagine that confused look on your past-self. Or the laughter when telling people that Flesh Eaters will dominate the meta for a long time, as well as Skaven. Imagine yourself hearing about StD finally having a Battletome :'D And that Khorne will rage so hard one day, he will manifest his anger as a spell
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First of all, I wonder how people expect "Let Nagash win" to be played out? @Sorrow complained about "Age of Chaos" beeing a thing, nevertheless Age of Chaos is a thing we never actually experienced in "game time" as it was simply part of narrative worldbuilding. Current events have a tidbit more impact. Especially Nagash's goals are quite extreme. Let the Necroquake Succeed? Nice, all living are now dead, we cut 3 Grand Alliances from the game and call it a day? Success at invading Hysh/Eightpoints? Despite the fact that you would have to kill whole (sub)factions that are based on these Realms (LRL and Everchosen), the next step would be to have more and more Campaigns about Death invading stuff. Nice, exactly the kind of game we want.
As for the "But the baddies never win" argument, it is nonsense as soon as you start reading lore instead of consuming reddit memes. Especially as AoS 3.0 was damn grim and Broken Realms: Teclis is the first "Good Guys win" plotline since a long time.
- AoS 2.0 started with the Necroquake. As mentioned above, in the narrative the Quake had to fail as it would end the whole setting. Bloody Skaven rescued the whole realms. Still the Necroquake gave Nagash a huge boost while entagling Sigmar in a war of attrition. Damn, this was even reflected in GW's release politic! We had this Edition no new SCE Models after Sancrosant despite single Miniatures to celebrate store openings and stuff! Meanwhile GA: Death had a major overhaul with several new factions added.
- The Necroquake revealed Stormvaults which were Prisons and Secrets hidden by Sigmar and the Pantheon. This actually caused a huge load of trust issues within the already separated Order Pantheon. We had Lady Olynder release Katakross from a Stormvault which was full sucess for GA:Death, all within it's own Campaign Book (Forbidden Power).
- Wrath of the Everchosen was a "baddies against baddies" Campaign. Katakross achived what even Sigmar didn´t manage: He got a foot into the Allpoints, interrupting Archaons plans. While not getting controll of the Eightpoints, it is still a great success.
- Broken Realm: Morathi may be about GA: Order but I wouldn´t call it a "the good guys won again" in the narrative. Actually Morathi betrayed GA:Order once again, releasing a damned chaos god from his prison and ascending into godhood. While fighting common enemies, Morathi has her own goals and only cares for order as long as it is required for her plans. This is again a big fail for the real good guys, which even costs Sigmar a whole City.
Broken Realm Teclis doesn´t make Order win the Edition. It merely ceases a long war that started to be dangerous to many factions. I am curious if Sigmar takes any role in the whole Plot or if it was all Teclis own solo approach, which would once again show how seperated GA:Order are. Imagine an Avengers Movie in which noone of the heroes cares to help but instead do whatever they like until Dr. Teclis Strange shows up, beats up the Bad Guy and then disappears again. The Story Arc that GW delivers is quite interesting and something I have not seen much around in TT Games.
tldr; People complain about stuff, mostly because they don´t know stuff .
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15 minutes ago, Tizianolol said:
Guys I have played sunday a game on tts. I have 2 rules questions :
- when I summon with ravagers ability 10 marauders, can I give them nurgle mark?
- in plaguetouch battalion, the slaves to darkness hero can benefit from the rules of the battalion? Or its only for 7 mortal nurlge units?:)
As alweys thx a lot guys!
- Yes, you are allowed to choose a Mark when you add the Models into your army by summoning.
- Plaguetouched consist of 1 STD MORTAL NURGLE HERO and 6 STD NURGLE MORTAL units. All of thoose 7 are affected by the battalions rule, but only them. Notice that among the 6 StD Mortal Nurgle Units you may also include heroes.
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Hi guys!
I yesterday bought my first DoK models and am currently eager to start this awesome hobby project! So far I have the Shadow and Pain Box as well as a SC! Box around. I love the book and the faction, but there is one thing I can´t really decide: How are the Altars to play? Are the ones with the Avatar on top both buffers? Is the Damage worth pumping them with Prayers to Activate the Avatar and the Rune of Kahine? And how about the Bloodwreck Medusa on Shrine? Althrough she lacks the cauldron she looks like a usefull power up over the footslogging one. -
Had a discussion about the new Lumineth Warscrolls and the heavy shift towards shooting in the recent tomes. Is it possible that AoS 3.0 will shift towards a even more strict "Look OutSir" rule, maybe 40k Style?
Also, I am really happy for the whole Broken Realms Lore looking good so far. Morathi was an awesome release and really did some heavy lifting regarding worldbuilding /storytelling. Teclis seem on par with it from the first glimpse we have. I belive this has to do with the setting beeing more feasible compared to 40k's Galaxy-span in which the death of a whole world seems irrelevant. -
I always have mixed feelings reading such profiles. On the one side: Damn cool rule that shows how good they are. On the other side it is gamedesign that removes interactions (in this case by providing 50% magic immunity as well as beeing able to ignore to-hit-modifier as well as many save rolls). AoS has already a huge issue with interaction between armies in my opinion as many factions allow to build a deathstar that simply plows through, regardless of what oppentn you play against.
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@KingBrodd Ogors were already the Mongolian-inspired army from WHFB. What we see is rather a remainer of this design rather than a new trend.
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It is a weird rumour. Overwatch was already nerfed in 40k quite a lot. I don´t get how it shall improve AoS 3.0, especially as there are tons of factions who don´t have more than a single ranged unit (BoK, many Death factions, Ironjaws etc). Also it breaks some game logic for Artillery Units in my opinion. Let us see what GW has planned there.
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22 minutes ago, warhammernerd said:
Can’t imagine they will make blood knights weaker than they currently are. I suspect they will be much the same, poss a bit improved with more varied buff support.
Currently Blood Knights are comparable with Chaos Knights. Having them perform worse would be quite unsatisfying
AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion
in Chaos
Posted
Quite interesting with the WoK Thirtser and the RoV trait. With the German wording you would actually get +2 and the damage on all Unbinds