Laststand
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Posts posted by Laststand
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10 hours ago, whispersofblood said:
It's also possible that the designers are communicating to you that they don't want people taking units of 9 gluttons. It is difficult to interpret why they don't want that, but it's quite clear by your demonstrated lack of success that it's not a choice the game rewards. And, maybe you should try something else?
But when you look at the Ogors allegiance ability you see that their MW charge ability is on 6s unless the unit is a monster or the unit is 8 models or larger. Then its boosted to a 4+ and is actually useful and game impacting.
Rewarding a larger unit with a faction bonus but then making it very very hard to field that unit is a bit odd.
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2 hours ago, edmc78 said:
Unlikely wildcard, what about exclusive STL files?
Almost no chance of that at all. The files would be with model casters in seconds and they would flood the market with models that GW can make and sell for a very healthy profit.
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Emerald life swarm next to a warp lightning cannon will be fun.
Also considering 4x 10 monks to ping MW with the book of woe and provide aggressive screens. With less enemies on the board due to points increases they may last a bit longer.
Considering a hell pit with the 4+ save 14 wound mutation as at 240pts it looks relatively cheap.
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2 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:
I can’t say much about the skaven, since I haven’t had a game in yet.
Yet there are some buts in the min. Size department, when it comes to certain units.
Skaven have that wonderful allegiance ability where they get +1 to the hit roles if a unit has 20 or more models and +1 to the wound role if it has 30 or more models.
Since stormvermin and plague monks, can now only be taken in 30s (stormvermin) and in 20s (plague monks in a not all units a re pestilence army) it basically means, that they loose on their buff most of the times instantly, which I kinda find sad.
considering that stormvermins and plague monks are sold in boxes of 20, I really was hoping that they would get an increase on their min. size yet stormvermins and plague might now never see the table again, since it takes a huge amount of reinforcement points to upgrade them to a size where they almost always loose their allegiance bonus instantly.
Now I know Stormvermins, could be a huge problem in units of 60, with which I definitely agree, but it could be easily handled by just adding something, that says: this unit can only be reinforced ones.
@Skreech Verminking I wonder if monks may have some use in 10s as aggressive road blocks? 4 bringers of the word with books of woe are going to be a real nuisance if they are all in one area of the board.
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Observations
Points increases are across the board so every army has to make some hard choices about what to field. I have fewer models, so do you. I wish i could still fit everything in but I cant so I will move on or play at 2,500.
Some of my units got wrecked. (Looking at you stormfiends). If I choose to take them they now have to be the main focus of my army rather than one of two or three. I do not like this but it is not game breaking.
Some armies were obviously changed with new books in mind. I dont use them but have heard multiple BOC rumours for example so perhaps there is a sunny upland for them to graze coming.
The game is a different game. I have watched a few batreps and what is completely obvious when dice start rolling is that to value a unit now you have to look at it differently. The avalanche of CP, heroic actons and new generic abilities coupled with new ways of scoring mean it is a much bigger change than just points. The battleplans are worth a proper review.
List building got harder, more complex and more tactical. (I like this).
I can choose opportunities in game to score that suit both my army and position in the game. That is drastically different so I need to assess my units with this in mind. Watching batreps, more than 50% of points are from strategies and round tactics.
There are still a number of issues for certain units that points dont fix. They have badly designed warscrolls and need a change to lift or lower them. GW need to get that right or people will have entirely justifiable gripes.
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1 hour ago, Clan's Cynic said:
A surprisingly very-obviously-Ghur themed General's Handbook this year. I'm surprised how much they're doubling down on the Realm of Beasts thematics.
Nowhere on this list of spells is a balewind vortex!
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27 minutes ago, KingBrodd said:
And I'm praying to the Gulping God that Ogors get a massive relaunch and will push the Stunties out of the way if need be!!*
*We will return to raise our vertically challenged brethren on our wide shoulders to ever greater heights of Duardin success...for a Magmadroth omelette.
Fingers crossed for 2 more troop choices, an elite troop, foot mounted heroes, a named Character, a cavlary option and a Behemoth.
Oh and an Underworlds and Warcry Warband. Is that too much to ask GW?
How about a Rinox pulled butchers cart, new maneaters and gorgers, a two headed winter drake, and a couple of firebelly units.
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2 hours ago, Doko said:
If this is true......it gonna be more umbalanced than the old box of ghost(where stormcast were so much stronger than ghosts).
New orcs seems veeeeeery strongth but stormcast are.........USSELESS.
Really every unit is as 40%overcosted,basic unit does a 50% damage from elite units that costs 120 but cost 140????? Even 100 would be expensive. In short does the same damage than lumineths hammerers that cost 100 but these cost 140 and people didnt played hammerers because they were bad
The winged hero is a joke,6 damage median for 300??????? Have stats of 200 or less.
The banner hero,125 points to only bring 3d3 wounds back? So im spending 125 points to revive 6 wounds? For that cost i could bring since the start a unit extra for less points,100% useless hero
The new mage is expensiver than actual mage and is worse,i prefer autocancel one spell every day before the small bubble anti endless spells
The bulku boys have stats of 140\150 units but cost 180
The bodyguards,similar units as seraphons do the same for 100 and not 155 points,but can have a use to avoid snipe heroes
If this is true all in this box gonna be umplayable for stormcast,they arent bad,they are 100% useless and overcosted by 40%. How is posible the winged hero cost 300 and the ork hero cost 200 when have similar stats
Units pts costs are not just decided on damage in melee combat. The stormcast for example can do mw to EVERY unit within 10 when they land (7" with the stormcast leader). They have great saves and some synergies too. Yes the wizard cant cancel a cast but we have been told already several times endless spells will be MUCH more powerful and relevant so an aura of denial may actually be better.
I have freely joined in criticising the silly bits of this new edition but you have to look at units beyind just the direct damage. Read some stuff from tournament winning players and they highly value great movement for example.
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7 minutes ago, Mcthew said:
Followed by a pointless article on Soulblight which all Soulblight players already know about if they have (had the misfortune of) buying the battletome.
Do you think WarHamCom are reading this Forum and have been scared off now revealing anything remotely interesting for AoS 3.0😜?
It does clear up one point that has caused a lot of argument re blood knights. They can definitely charge after using riders of ruin and the move is a "normal move".
Riders of Ruin lets them make a normal move even when enemies are within 3”, trample straight over them (inflicting mortal wounds in the process), then charge straight back into the unit with deadly lances for masses of damage.
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1 hour ago, Golub87 said:
You are 100% correct, of course.
That said, that is not an argument in favor of current system. I have played games where you simply put "unformed" token next to the formation that fell apart for whatever reason. It is not a perfect representation of what is actually happening, but it is far closer to the truth than whatever this is AND it is simpler for the player AND it allows for better and more interesting game due to the way it interacts with other elements of the game.From my standpoint, and feel free to correct me if I am wrong, when designing a rule for the game there are three things to be taken into account. Priority varies and sometimes not even all three things are considered, depending on designer goals, but any given rule must conform and reinforce at least one of these elements:
1. Gameplay - does the rule make playing the game more elegant? Does it provide more interesting choices to the players? Does it interact favorably with other rules?
Semi-independent unit movement that we have right now fails here because the game is not more elegant (tedium of pushing individual figures), choices are not really meaningful due to lack of constraints (you can push your unit trough terrain the same way you push it over open field - no risk of being unformed vs reward of being in cover there), and it does not interact favorably with other rules (best example being within vs wholly within song and dance - game is a mess of aura bubbles now due to the nature of formations).
2. Narrative - does the rule help tell a story? Does it result in a spectacle on the table? Is it pretty?Absolutely not - two most common formations were noodle lines of infantry and sideways cav formations.... No legion-like tight blocks of Ossiarchs or the like. And now we get these complex geometries in the new rule-set. It is ugly.
3. Simulation - does the rule help simulate reality? Does it drive the game in the direction where the outcomes would be similar to RL?
Again, a dud. See above as to why. No one has ever used the formations that are used in this game.
Again, not every game has to equally support all three. Chess is all about gameplay, for example. But when writing a rule, you have to get at least one of these in order to justify it.
And this is not the only rule where AoS simply fails to satisfy even one of the important game design points.Fair points. There have to be answers to some of these issues (and other games have probably found some) but GW frequently seem to go with something that hasnt been properly reviewed for each faction. Alternatively they may be winding our clocks tight so we are relieved when its shown to not be that bad. Having a hero near by might change coherancy restrictions or unleash hell might cost 3CP or something.
This makes a joke of the "best rule set ever" but will probably be workable.
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9 hours ago, Golub87 said:
True, but we should just go back to square formations. There is no reason, gameplay or lore, that requires the tedium of moving models one by one.
Historically speaking formations were extremely important in pre-industrial warfare and there is no way to impose their practicality on the player via soft rules.Historically speaking formations were loose and only the most elite units with the most training (royal guards, nobles, elite mercenaries) could hold them in combat. Many other troops on the battlefield were part timers. Its also only natural that formations would fragment over terrain or in combat when troops try to lap round an open flank. Two squares, bashing head on in strict formation wouldnt have lasted (see scrums in Rugby or NFL scrimmage lines)
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23 minutes ago, Xil said:
no it doesn't, it only matters when the enemy can target a specific model. and i think only LRL can do this still (Entomb Spell)
The Skaven splinter spell also does this and it just got a whole lot more useful.
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2 minutes ago, whispersofblood said:
Or... You could accept that 10 man units of 1" reach Cav aren't optimal combat configurations, and perhaps they are designed to be 5 man?
It is going to be a very slow playing experience if everyone has 2k pts of minimum sized units. If the counter to that is across the board points increases GW will sell fewer models. There has to be some other rules element to this that hasnt been explained yet.
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15 hours ago, Erdemo86 said:
Normal paladins come in units of 5 and have 15 wounds a unit not 9. But we will see.
Normal paladins have a 4+ save rather than 2+. I think they will be 220-240pts. The MW on a charge ability is very powerful from experience doing it with mawtribes.
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On 6/4/2021 at 11:36 AM, Skreech Verminking said:
So, upcoming saturday, the skaven of clans Morskitt, will be taking arms up against an unknown enemy force (My eshin spies have been doing their jobs poorly, the only thint they found out, is that the enemy force may be some kind of elves, sadly they weren’t fery certain about that information)
But with our-our new rule-toys this’ll be going to be very interesting-fun.
Yes-yes let loose-release the weapon teams,
uahahaha!!!
Andyways here’s the list I’ll be using this saturday:
Allegiance: Skaventide
LEADERS
Fulrik the mad (120)
Warlock Bombardier
- General
- Command Trait: Overseer of Destruction
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
Grey seer rattersnak (240)
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell - Lore of Ruin: Death Frenzy
Fulriks very trustworthy (for a skaven) apprentices (120)
Warlock Bombardier
- Artefact: Vial of the Fulminator
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
UNITS
The black furred gnawers of the deep warrens (200)
40 x Clanrats - Rusty Blade
Raknak’s backstabbing Backstabbers (200)
40 x Clanrats - Rusty Blade
The tunneler (80)
1 x Warp-Grinder
The Squigburner (70)
1 x Warpfire Thrower
The man-things scorcher (70)
1 x Warpfire Thrower
The Dead-thing maker (60)
1 x Ratling Gun
The holemaker (60)
1 x Ratling Gun
Not worthy of-of title, yet-yet (60)
1 x Ratling Gun
The red guard (400)
40 x Stormvermin - Halberd & Shield
The Messenger of Dooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooom!!!! (150) *
1 x Doomwheel
The wheel of Doooooom!! (150)
1 x Doomwheel
TOTAL: 1980/2000 WOUNDS: 177
LEADERS: 3/6 BATTLELINES: 3 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 3/4 ARTILLERY: 0/4 ARTEFACTS: 1/1 ENDLESS SPELLS: 0/3 ALLIES: 0/400*Now I’m just hoping that I wrote enough o’s, to imitate a skaven scream-squeaking doom, while driving a Doomwheel.
How did it go?
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2 hours ago, Chikout said:
With the rumoured increase of points, more monsters, smaller tables meaning combats happen earlier and the removal of horde discounts, there's a good chance 3rd edition games will actually go faster.
If points jump and horde discounts disappear you do potentially get smaller faster games but isnt the flip side lower model sales? If i cant field 120 clan rats, an army of 5 stonehorn/thundertusks or 12 eels I won't buy them. The increased focus on points efficiency will also rule out many units from making the board at all. I wonder if there is an apocalypse type format in the works to compensate.
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11 hours ago, Cronotekk said:
New leaks from a trusted source (has never been wrong before)
- Generic command abilities completely reworked, think stratagems, no longer reliant on heroes
- "Heroic actions" as mentioned in the teaser are random effects that can trigger on a dice roll. ie. on a roll of a 6 you can attack twice
- Playing into the idea of the double turn, the triple turn is being implemented. With enough command points you can skip your opponent's turn.
- New board size isn't the same as 40k's, they really want to play into the AoS is a melee game design ideology. 2k games will play on 3x4 boards
A Triple turn with enough command points? GW have make some silly rules in the past but this one would actively stop people playing the game and buying models. I'd love to see the source of as frankly i dont believe it. Any army that can generate enough CP to do it effectively wins the game. There is no coming back from a triple turn by an opponent and if it happens you may as well go have a cup of tea and watch TV or just start putting your models back in their case.
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On 5/17/2021 at 1:53 PM, Mikosan said:
I'm a little baffled by the hand wringing and teeth gnashing over this. How is the double whammy of covid lockdowns and brexit not the obvious issues at work here? Unless folks really think GW just didn't want them, specifically, to have a copy. Pretty sure if they could have sold every single person that wanted one a copy they would have. There was the note on the warscrolls provided in the box about being updated for November. So clearly production is behind. Thats not just cursed city, all production is behind and with AoS 3 coming up I'm sure time on the production line is at a premium. Now that is not an excuse for poor communication, but maybe its just a matter of fitting in another production run to the jam packed schedule. Maybe they don't even know when that will be. Maybe they do and it's a couple months off, who knows. After 20+ years in this hobby, I know that for some folks, a big part of the hobby is crapping on GW. Lord knows they've not helped themselves over the years, I just don't think, given the state of the world and operating during lockdowns etc.. this is entirely warranted.
What's been said here and widely by many, many people is the complete lack of communication. If they had just said, it's Tax changes, Brexit, shipping delays, Covid hitting production, basically anything, they would have taken customers with them. Instead they never let up for a second on the hype, building an expectation and demand they knew by then they couldnt meet. That is just bad business. Give people a reason, even if its vague and whatever solution is practical (the models will come out seperately) and then move on. Thats that would happen with any other company. Bond film late - production problems, garden rake out of stock - Covid shipping. Wiping all social media content and pretending the product never existed - fail.
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1 hour ago, KingBrodd said:
I really hope 3.0 is for updating existing Factions and with Ghur and Beasts being the focus I hope that falls on Destruction getting the major releases.
I'll be realistic and assume that the Sons of Behemat wont get a new Mega Gargant this Edition, everyone knows I would love nothing more but to temper my expectations I'll not expect anything. BUT I would love an updated Mancrusher pleaaaase.
With the new 'Morruk' Faction it will be interesting to see if its bundled into Warclans, because if its is I'll honestly be happy about it. Give the Ironjawz an armoured Crossbow unit and Siege weapon, a Warboss on Gore Grunta and a Gore Grunta Chariot and they would be in an incredible place. Same goes for Savage Orruks, update the monopose battleline and give them a new unit or two and they would be sweet.
Gloomspite, MOAR TROGGOTHS. We've heard of the Sulphur breath so they would be a great addition alongside some form of Cavlary such as Centipede riders.
Ogors I believe have the most work to be done to them. Introduce the Firebellies as a full sub faction. Update the Gluttons, Ironguts and Leadbelchers, Frost Sabres, Icebrow Hunter, Butcher, Slaughtermaster, Icefall Yehtees and Gorger.
For new units give them most Beasts, a Giant Ground Sloth or Mammoth/Mastodon centrepiece model. Imagine a Howdah full of Ogors with Crossbows on the back of Giant Sloth!!
I'm so damn hyped for 3.0!!
Excellent suggestions, would love expanded firebellies for a fire and ice army. My minimalist ask would be to give the leadbelchers cannons more than 1 damage! D3 is swingy but appropriate.
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39 minutes ago, Nezzhil said:
Hunter Ogor incoming.
@KingBrodd could this be a teaser for a King Gargant?
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7 hours ago, KingBrodd said:
Could be part of a new Huskard model? Maybe a dismounted one?
Maybe an Ogor version of a falconer. 5 vultures perched or flying round an ogor bird trainer. The model would be a ranged hero that send the vultures to attack.
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On 9/14/2020 at 1:01 PM, Harpo2 said:
Liberators to me represented what 100 points in AoS could get you but now they no longer 100 points and it feels wrong to me.
If they were going to reflect the lore stormcast should be immune to battleshock and probably rend -1 as well. Might be an idea if those hammers the size a car axle and swung by a hero of the old world singled out by a god were more effective than a pillow on a stick.
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4 hours ago, OkayestDM said:
There's a distinct leaf shape to the (basket?) over the hand.
That's hardly proof of anything, but it is a common style in elven models.
Vampire elves you say?
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1 hour ago, Beastmaster said:
I’d hope rather for some Siege rules/scenarios, even if only for narrative games, than just having a possibility to kill off the odd faction terrain buff.
This would also make objectives much less abstract.
There are siege rules in wrath of the everchosen arnt there? They include rules for every faction i think.
AoS 3 New Rules Discussion
in Age of Sigmar Discussions
Posted · Edited by Laststand
Spelling
A good aim. But no-one ever tried to string out 30 models on 40mm bases across the board. In fact you can still put 30 models on 25mm bases into a long 15" line without any problem. The rule hasn't fixed this. What it has done is make some elite units far less appealing to use. I cant take 3 gluttons anymore because the base unit size is now 6. Taking 12 is a huge waste of points v combat ability because 7 or 8 wont be able to fight and are just a wound and points soak. To compensate for this oddity the points went UP. This is not elegant design.
Coincidently I will still use one unit of 6 gluttons because I like the models and I have them painted but I known using them is playing on hard mode because they cant use their trampling charge allegiance ability effectively below 8 models and piling in will be odd. If trampling charge switched to mw on a 4+ at 6 models (from 8 models ) in an FAQ that WOULD be a compensation.