Fulkes
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Posts posted by Fulkes
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11 minutes ago, Foe-Hammer said:
Same here... Two armies for the price of one! I also like your idea of looted dinos - Terradons as Deff Koptas and a Stegadon as a battle wagon!
I'm trying to work out how to turn a Bastilladon into a Trunk too. Probably use the one with the snakes and build a howda on it.
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12 minutes ago, Foe-Hammer said:
I had something similar in mind a while back... arrow boyz as boyz with shootas, morboyz as boyz with slugga and choppa, and boar riders as biker boyz.
I forgot about the arrow boyz. Those would work better as shootas.
I feel like Feral Orks are the army everyone wants but no one actually pulls the trigger on because of the conversions needed. Though Moonclan helps with that since it gives us more Squigs to work with (the big double squigs count as an all melee Deff Dread for example?). I've had this army on my mind since I saw Savage Orcs back in WFB and only had it reinforced by their role in Imperial Glory. Plus any army you can double up game systems on is just a good buy, right?
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So I'm starting a Feral Ork army for 40k, and after much back and forth of how I was going to do it I'm keeping most of the models unchanged (instead I'm looting Seraphon dinosaurs to be my vehicles (Terradons as Deffcoptas anyone?), possibly using the big spiders as Squiggoths and using Squig Hoppers to make Stormboyz. Basically the whole army will be a Feral Ork tribe on some death world) so I can also use most of it in AoS as well.
As I'm fuel building, any recommendations of stuff I should focus on getting first? I'm thinking and stikka boyz will be shootas for 40k and any double choppa boyz will be shootas and choppas for 40k. I know I'll need a prophet (makes a great weirdboy too) but I don't know enough about the army to know of anything I specifically nees to run an effective list.
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@sal4m4nd3r Nice BCP ad! 😉 So any tactics or thoughts on special tricks you built into your army?
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I feel like the bird goat and bird beast list should be called "Chicken Run".
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9 minutes ago, SwampHeart said:
I mean no good BoC player doesn't own 30 Gors regardless - you just kind of end up with them over time. I don't recall ever buying any but they seem to show up in my boxes somehow.
I think it's just a law of nature.
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I admit I likely over rely on the internet when first dipping into an army. The game isn't cheap and while I want to own everything, I also want to prioritize the stuff that plays well so I can stand a decent chance of winning. So it's probably my fault for buying into the hyperbole.
I still feel some blame should be leveled at the rules though. While we don't have a Hagg Nar option in terms of strength, we definitely have options that are so obviously better that it's hard for even casual players to pick something else (Gavespawn specifically). And consodering it's not even a game breaking level of "good" it just makes me wish the rest of the book was at that level too.
It could always be worse I know, we could have been the next KO, but that doesn't change that there are some balance issues with the book that I hope get addressed the next go round.
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1 hour ago, cranect said:
Eeven if you have a competitive environment you can still get good games in with just about any of the units in the book. Some require a lot more work to figure out how but you definitely can. If your only enjoyment comes from winning then it isnt for you. If you are just there to get good games and win close to 50% of your games then you can just about make anything work. Maybe not against the top lists played by a good player but anything short of that and you can.
My only enjoyment doesn't come from winning, but I don't enjoy having my teeth kicked in either.
Much of the advice an opinion about the army pushes the idea that you shouldn't use about half the book. Hearing people then say "forget that, it's basically all good 👍" gives me a fair bit of whiplash.
I don't disagree that you can fly in the face of internet wisdom and win games (I did it with Repentia for three editions in my Sisters army), but when everyone pushes you towards a certain build and then says "oh, forget what we said if you're not playing tournaments" I have trouble switching trains to join that side of things.
At the end of the day Allherd is still a mess of a Greatfrey. It lacks an real bonus for pushing you to always be in combat for its leadership bonus, it barely helps with the summoning and frankly the artefact is a joke. Even the most casual players skip right over it and look at the other two 'freys.
One guy making it work with bird goats doesn't make it a good choice either. That's like saying the Beastlord is good just because he can carry the Gavespawn artefact. It's the artefact that makes him good, not his own merits as a model, likewise it's the bird goats who make the Allherd Greatfrey good, not the 'frey itself.
And maybe it is just the loss of several options we used to havr (like the army standard) that are causing the problem for me. I cut my teeth with Beastmen at the start of 8th, so the way they function now doesn't mesh with the playstyle I enjoyed then and that might be where the frustration I'm having with the army comes from. We just lost too many tools that the army needed to be played the same way.
I have no intention of quitting the army, but when it doesn't let you really reflect the lore on the table and bring out a playstyle that feels like ther herds of old, it's a bit frustrating for someone like me. I'd probably be happier if I had less history with the army I guess.
I'm still going to be painting Goat men, I'm just going to need time to reconcile how much the army changed I guess.
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@swarmofseals I guess it comes down to who you normally play against. My enviroment starts with semi-competetive and goes up from there. Net listing and optimization ate common things.
Plus some armies habevthings so good they basically build themselves (DoK).
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@swarmofsealsYou ignored my point regarding non-competetive play revolving largely around the same lists, but sure the book has a strong set of competetive options.
My issue, I guess, is that non-competetive options of the book are so non-competetive that they actively hinder your ability to win games.
And I dislike any labelling of criticism of the faults in a book as "whining". Just because you can do one or two strong builds out of an army doesn't make all the options that can't be used in those builds "okay".
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Pretty in-depth insight! Thanks for the deep dive into the whole process.
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1 minute ago, Ekrund Oath Splitters said:
Im generally curious why Ungors are seen as the better option over Gor? For a 1pt difference per model the Gor has a better armour save and a better bravery, Gors gain +1 attack and Ungor get reroll 1s and 2s to hit. With good honeycombing you can get 2 ranks of Gor fighting and i assume people dont use spears with Ungor? Or is it the fact you get more of them at Horde cost than the Gors Horde cost? I see them more as equal, Ungors die quicker and will break to battleshock more often and severely, where as Gors just dont have a good amount of attacks of which is can be worsened as soon as they become 19 and below.
Base size namely. You get more attacks into a smaller footprint. And the unit goes to 40 making it able to screen larger areas.
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7 minutes ago, Ekrund Oath Splitters said:
whats the meta like round you are? Allherd may be in a better spot than other peoples local meta. Like in my area and tournaments around my county, there isnt a huge showing of DoC and FeC, its still very much LoN and MK then a tonne of GG players and a handful of Skaven.
In fact i dont think there is even a Single IDK player that goes my local store (we have a huge community for AoS) haha! If there is one hes probably a rare occurrence.
It comes and goes but I know we recently got 2 Fyreslayer players, and there's some folks jumping on Moonclan and Sylvaneth thanks to the box set. The store owner has a pretty sizable Nurgle force too now that I think about it.
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Sadly the way I want to play Beastmen (large usr of Gor, Allherd, mix in some big wimpy things) is basically the worst way to play Beastmen. Which kills my motivation a bit as I work on things since I can't even really focus on the stuff I really like.
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3 hours ago, SwampHeart said:
The book is tremendous - unfortunately many BoC players would rather whine about what's not there than focus on where the army falls in the overall scope of play. Much like every other book in the game there are very strong options and then options that don't hold up - BoC isn't unique in this, its the same game every other army plays. The benefit is our strong options are very competitive - we have access to most of the tools needed to be successful in AoS and there are results from it. In addition to the CanCon and masters lists Rick Myhill did well with BoC at BOBO. On the whole I can't recommend BoC enough, its a great book with enough tools for you to build the kit you want. Ignore the BoC whinerbase.
Reign it in their champ. The "whining" from the community it has nothibg to do with the idea that the book is unplayable. The complaints stem from the fact that many of us want to play more varied lists than Gavespawn + Ungor/Bestigor spam. Thr book has a LOT of cool stuff in it from the big monsters to some of other units but you fight a losing battle if you take those ouside of summoning.
No one should look down on others simply because they want to use all the tools available. Furthermore, it's fallacious to assume that because we have a competetive build or two that win games that everything else doesn't matter. GW didn't sell us a book with only those competetive builds, they sold us ones with a lot of meh as well.
And before I hear "but you can use them in Narrative/Open Play" let me give you a reminder: even in Narrative/Open Play people want to win. Throwing that away just so we can run Allherd or Jabberslyths is frankly dumb.
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We have a second playstyle: bird goats.
That said, when you have some of the coolest models in the game but are punished by your rules for using them it's not easy to stay upbeat about the army.
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2 hours ago, Riavan said:
A lot are looking way too pastel for me.
I feel like that can be a selling point for certain armies (daemons, Orruks, Seraphon), and the color darkens down quite a bit when you give it a second coat in most test models I've seen.
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Something that crossed my mind was pairing a Zenithal highlight with a gloss varnish and then the Contrast paints. The gloss could give the same smooth surface as the new primers (and is something that is used by some painters for doing interesting things with washes) and make it work over a wider variety of base paints.
I won't start messing with them until next weekend. I've got some ideas I'll be doing for my Everchosen entry (basically some stuff involving colored metallics by basically spending too many hours shading and highlighting silver to then put thinned coats of contrast over it), so it'll be interesting if I can nail the effect I'm looking for.
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Well if our army comp changes it's going to be in response to other armies, and not our own. It feels like we only got a small amount of attention to try and push models that aren't selling well and to curb the ones that are selling too well.
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22 minutes ago, The_Yellow_Sign said:
GW points writers seem to have no clue how the game works (or how to do maths) so I'm not surprised.
They have plenty idea how the game works but their vision of it doesn't always match ours.
I don't hate Razorwings, but I do question why we have an endless spell that was written for such niche uses. They seem to exist to help us push extra casualties onto enemy units and combo with our leadership based spells.
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2 hours ago, The_Yellow_Sign said:
Man I really hope not. Beastlord is still a way better hero for the Gnarlblade, which is the only thing that makes a melee hero viable in BoC.
I sincerely hope they give the Beastlord an updated sheet in this update or something. If being thd caddy for a single artefact is all he's good for then something needs to change.
Depending on how this all shakes out it might be worth sending detailed feedback to the FAQ address if we don't see some shifts to the army.
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4 minutes ago, erasercrumbs said:
I'm assuming units of 30 gors will be 200 max. That'sa lot of wounds and 4+ saves to chew through. That, combined, with their large base size and mobility, looks to make them solid board control fodder.
But I'm the worst player in the world so take that with a grain of salt.
Actually with how important board control is, they could see some use there since Ungor basically evaporate instead.
We'll have to see how the meta shifts from here though.
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I doubt the points listed were all of our changes. Chances are they picked the ones they felt mattered the most to changing the way some armies play and shared those.
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Putting them at only ten points over Ungor might help a but, but I await someone to tell me how wrong I am.
AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion
in Chaos
Posted
I was ribbing you. And you skipped the actual question I asked to boot.