Saxon

It's hard to give a company credit when the rules in their very expensive battletomes become very redundant very fast. Printing Errata all the time and taking it to games is really irritating.

Interesting. I played just the one game against an idoneth list and there was just no chance of me dealing enough wounds to kill anything. Im disappointed GW has failed in this respect because the original warbands seem relatively balanced. Once again though, if they nerf or boost anything it's another set of cards that have to be purchased because they either intentionally or not write rules poorly.

Indeed. The new space marine sculpts are absolutely terrible. They look like multiple kits frankensteined together. But give space marines stupid rules and now these things are viable. I saw on instagram some hate for some of the melta rules that are just off the charts. I must be broken because in the last 12 months GW has made it almost impossible to sell me new models. In 12 months I've purchased 1 box of models to finalise my nighthaunt. Whilst I didn't mind some of the newer models, you see the buzz online about how great they are and like clockwork the inevitable rage when their singular builds get the nerf stick. I think I'm traumatised by how quickly LoN became virtually unplayable when I spent the best part of a year building an army.

Whilst im not super familiar with 40k i have seen a lot of references to these sorts of things. The interesting question is why? Is it to make people chase the meta and thus buy more models at the expense of the rest of their customers? Do WAAC players outspend the rest of us? I see a lot of contempt for arguments that suggest that rules that create a negative reaction from the community are intentional on the basis that not every new set of rules is broken.

Isn't this an indication of either a) accidental poor rule writing and play testing or b) purposeful poor rule writing? I see nerfs as an admission that their new rules interact poorly with existing ones. Its extremely poor for a leading company to make books useless within several months.

My group hasn't played much warcry yet but we have had a bit of a go at it and really enjoyed the game using the starter set models which seem fairly balanced. Im curious, what are peoples thoughts on the specific warcry warbands vs. The ones adapted from existing AoS armies? We have only played a couple of games with models from AoS armies and probably need far more to form an opinion but they seem very strong. What are others experiences with this?

Too many ways to ignore battleshock these days. Attrition wars are long dead:(

100% correct. Some of us aren't the best painters so have to rely on our tabletop skills (or lack thereof in my case). Recent releases ( Slaanesh and Bonereapers top the list) concern me on the basis that the rules are strong to push models. I say this because there is the inevitable nerf after they've made bank. Both slaanesh summoning and petrifex elite have been hit with a stick. I dont know if that is a good business model personally. People who buy models for rules tend to get upset when those rules get changed.

Funnily enough my last idea for an army was a chaos army of marauders using females as shield maiden's as a Viking theme. There was a lack of available alternative heads that weren't extortionate expensive.

Its not explicitly political. It wasnt until about 5 years ago I realised the imperium was satire. I support female models and female options. Probably my favourite recent models are the Sisters of battle ( or whatever GW calls them for IP reasons these days). Would be nice if they made alternative sprues for most factions as well as doing more work to encourage different skin tones on their boxes

You're not wrong. I had a good laugh at the Imperium being created as a p*ss take. I would resent anything GW related becoming even remotely political. It was bad enough seeing social media blow up and demand GW become socially involved in the wake of their inclusively statement. Thats a road that leads only to trouble.

Is it not easier for them to do it this way? Consistent even? I have also derailed this thread and I apologise haha.

This is the crux of my entire argument.......

The word dictator has been thrown around a lot in my country due to harsh restrictions to control Covid-19. Politics in general seems to be a race to the bottom worldwide. I find it sad that some people cannot separate a game and real life. When I actually used to play 40k as a teenager it was so much simpler.....

Yeh im not going to wade into anything related to the disaster that is the USA. Nothing beneficial comes from discussing such a polarising and chaotic country. Its game lore and it's meant to be dark and confronting. The imperium is authoritarian and xenophobic because its the only way it survives. Getting upset by people seeing this in a way different to your own is the most concerning thing.

Hahaha nailed GWs business model there!

Oh of course 40k dominates the lore. It's been around longer so of course. Personal preference but I have had a hard time getting into the AOS lore because I was such a huge fan of the old world lore and also because I cant get past my dislike for stormcast haha.

Morals do change you are right and I completely agree that removing statues is wrong. I used this example because funnily enough the same people upset at the portrayal of the imperium are the same people upset because Winston Churchill was a war mongers racist. It greatly concerns me that the strong lore the game has does come under criticism for darker elements. I dont want games where space marines try and talk it out with Abbadon before invading the planet or that chaos is just misunderstood. AOS needs to develop strong lore to engage people in the game for the long term also. its hard not to dismiss this side of the argument when its so poorly informed and reactionary.

See i agree i love that kind of thing. The lore surrounding the seized of Vraks which was a meat grinder was cool. The 40k future is dark and bad. It may just be my circle but seeing people get upset at the way it's all portrayed just irritates me. I do recognise that being consistent for so long in writing style would be difficult.

I guess experiences are different. The last time I made the mistake of venturing into games workshop related social media there was a lot of opposition to how the imperium operates in the lore and how it apparently encourages right wing extremist views. Its one of the reasons I avoid the community on social media. My favourite part was when GW posted an inclusion statement but didn't post it on instagram and everyone lost their minds until new smurfs came out 2 weeks later and everyone stopped caring. Keeping lore in any game on track has to be hard. Everyone has their own ideas and perspectives. 40k fans in particular are demanding and unforgiving. Id hate to be a black library author. The woke generation is not mysterious.... put a conservative opinion on social media and await the hate haha

The lore of 40k has more or less been consistent in its xenophobia from the start. It's tiresome that all of a sudden its bad to show good guys as problematically xenophobic. Hence my reference to statues. Fine until recently and now they're offensive. Please.

I think that's just a reflection of 1) how that game was made - centered around the imperium and its fight for survival and 2) the customers bases appetite. It's a heck of a lot easier to sell smurfs to teenagers than the complex world of the Dark Eldar.....

I really absolutely resent that the satire aimed at the dogmatic religious organizations around when 40k was created has come under attack from the woke generation who get mad at statues. I've seen criticism of the xenophobia of the imperium far too often in lets say the last 18 months in particular. It's upsetting that the people getting upset by this are too stupid to realize the intention of it and ironic that they can't see how silly they look trying to get rid of it 😆

Agreed. The page before this comment i was praising Warcry and how much fun our group had playing it the other week only to see GW slap on a massive price tag for the new box which has instantly put us all off.....

People getting priced out of frustrated with potato rules should have a crack at Warcry. I've been having a lot of trouble in my local gaming group with WAAC players and rules/mechanics available to newer armies i don't enjoy playing against as well as my general declining enthusiasm for AOS. First game last weekend and loved it. Quick, simple, quirky missions. Love the missions, the models and the random generation of terrain and twists. Picked the game up quickly and we got 6 people to play 4 games in a few hours which was also nice. Good change of pace from AOS.