willange

So on the topic of souping tomes… I’ve generally been vocal against souping. The reasons are obvious. I prefer each army to be as unique as possible and get as much individual attention as possible. That said, I’ve recently had a change of heart in the topic. The orruk warclans book, while not perfectly balanced or executed (seriously, who wrote bonesplitterz?), is actually in the vein of what I’d like to see. Why? 1) While there is a decent set of rules for soup, the most interesting rules IMO are the non-soup ones, meaning that the factions manage to retain their individual identities. 2) Effectively, 3 armies got a book at once. (Yeah one of them was ******, but that happens to mono-army books all the time too). At this point we have ~22 more battletomes that need to come out this edition, assuming no additional souping occurs. Given Covid and international shipping issues, that might never actually happen in time for 4th edition (assuming they stick to the 3 year edition cadence). 3) My group is being silly and doesn’t want to play PtG until “more armies get cool books and PtG rules like the new ones have. Yeah white dwarf helps there, but they’re mad about needing to buy a $10 magazine for rules (I guess a $50 book is preferable to them). Basically, I think souping partially can solve our new edition battletome delays as long as the amount of roles doesn’t get reduced too badly

Also, I've been thinking about making an alt account called "WightFang" where I only react with emojis and make cryptic comments except I only react to stuff related to the Death GA... Just to further muddy the waters.

Isn't that all of us though?

Rejoice hosts of the dark gods! Behold, Darkoath Warqueens, Chieftains and Ogroid Myrmidons will finally make sense with the Eye of the Gods table!!!

Man, we're super desperate now guys... Imagine looking to neverchosen as a source of leaks Yet here we are

Honestly this is an issue that I too am surprised to see that so many people care about so deeply. Obviously if it matters to you, then it matters to you and I won't judge that, but I honestly can't remember the last time I actually used the free warscroll feature to really look up rules. Once I found out about the app I pretty much just used that. I do absolutely agree that the warscrolls in the app should be accessible w/o a subscription for ease of entry, but whenever I look at how to build new armies I pretty much already just use wahapedia anyway, so I don't really care. I don't see a world where this change affects me at all, though it makes me feel a little bad for new players I guess. The newer players that I interact with are also unaffected by this as they already bought their warscroll packs (I've yet to meet anyone new that doesn't immediately fall in love with physical warscrolls, especially when they come from 40k). I guess my take is that this is a silly change for GW to make (though again makes sense IF they had them free on the app always because then they don't have to update and maintain a separate list of pdfs on their site), but I also imagine that the times when I and those I play with will be affected by this change are going to be few and far between. Because of that, it does seem like this is getting blown slightly out of proportion.

Yeah, it may very well be that these end up being undercosted, but they could just as easily be overcosted. It’s Schrodinger’s balance, for now

I just assumed they were all burned in a factory fire somewhere lol. It's actually a major disappointment for me as I missed getting the 1st tome's warscroll cards and then the 2nd tome just hasn't had any (beyond what was in shadow & pain)

I figured this might happen since they talked so much about them and then gave Kragnos bonuses against them.

Well if Spikeybits is saying it then we know it's 100% confirmed false :D

Yeah it seemed to me that the intent here was that they would be usable by default in Warclans, but that they will be getting their own battletome or at least unique allegiance abilities within a new Warclans battletome.

No, that's pretty common, especially for Tzaangors.

Yeah, I think that's pretty unclear for now. Maybe Grungni reveals himself in Kragnos?

Butcher-herd?!?! Doom-Coven?!?! ARE WE GETTING SKAVEN AND BOC STUFF IN THE BOOK?!?!?! It will probably just be some trash warscroll battalion that won't even be valid next edition, but still.... HYPEEEEEEE!

GW: Shows female model TGA: *Chaos Spawn Gibbering Noises* Seriously though, we've done this whole topic like 1000 times. Some of the female models look traditionally "pretty" and some don't. Big deal. They're all made-up creatures/species/races that are somehow linked to made-up deities in a made-up world. I don't think they need anymore "make-up" than that (haha see what I did there?)

I do play Warclans, but I would disagree that it really hit the mark. Obviously it's a good book, but as someone who was chomping at the bit for new Orruk books, this one hit me as a real downer. The 3 factions each feel a bit shallow (ruleswise) to me, almost like the initial wave of Lumineth (except Lumineth had more competitive viability). Like it's all just slightly different ways to get buffs and rush up the board. I would have much preferred they bring out more distinct playtyles. Obviously though, I respect your take on this and it's perfectly valid. I'm glad you enjoyed it! Plus if they combine the duardin factions, that really makes me worried they won't do more models for Fyreslayers and KO. They're each beautiful concepts and there's so much more they COULD do with KO and Fyreslayers that I worry they won't do it for either if they're just trying to soup them up. I do KIND OF AGREE that rolling dispossessed and ironweld into Fyreslayers would work better, but I say that mainly because dispossessed and ironweld don't have their own actual allegiance abilities currently, so I wouldn't be too worried about losing out on alternative potential development, maybe a little for fyreslayers. Really the only soup book I've enjoyed has been CoS, but that faction for me is a bit of a lore and model anomaly. Obviously we knew they weren't going to ever get around to separate Freeguild AND Dispossessed AND Darkling Covens AND Wanderers, etc battletomes, so I was just happy to see them get some kind of decent rules finally. The lore of the azyrite refugees also had a lot of really good setup going into CoS. They're definitely trying to set something like that up for duardin, but so far they haven't really sold me on it.

I think if Grombi comes out with his own "Dispossessed" faction (with new models) and then THAT NEW FACTION can take a few KO and Fyreslayers per its own allegiance rules that would be fine. I just would hate to see Fyreslayers and KO get watered down in a combined book the way Orruk Warclans kinda did with Ironjawz and Bonesplitterz. I honestly don't see GW doing that.

Kragnos, God of Tikki!

That's a good catch! It wouldn't necessarily have to point to the focal point of the new edition, but the stories of the beastgrave mountain (likely where Kragnos will emerge from, if I understand correctly) and Shadespire (where Sigvald broke out of and lots of soul-shenanigans happened) both pointed to at least some new models and major story beats. So far underworlds is 2-0 predicting new editions lol! I will mention though that underworlds seems to change locations every 2 years (so far but we'll see with season 5) and AoS does new editions every 3 years, so it seems like that would have to break down eventually, right? Regardless I'm sure season 5's location will point to something.

I wonder if it's really a Grungni faction or just a Grombi mini. But if Horticulus is saying it then...

Statistical analysis and model refreshes! Basically the same things we always talk about!

The Lumineth battletome basically states that Vanari follow the "Tyrionic tradition" or something like that, so "Vanari ________" are basically all Tyrion's Dudes. That includes Lyrior Uthralle and Ellathor as well. Just wanted to point that out in case you didn't know. I'd still love to see Malerion elves and Kurnothi though!

Honestly I'm excited even if all we see is Kragnos and more SBGL. I love a good model reveal! Anything on top of that is just gravy for me! So get this gravy train going!

Actually you might be right with that. They do translocate which might be what they meant with the story about the zenith master turning to light to escape shadow demons. I do sort of expect that we'll see something more obviously aligned with the specific "zenith temple", but perhaps not.

I actually think another wave of lumineth models in roughly another year is super likely. The 2nd wave being air models was obvious to see coming and it was a nice surprise to see a bunch of scinari/vanari with it, but the Lumineth Battletome still makes a lot of very "model-specific" hints at new units. I get that every battletome has some hinting at more stuff but usually in a more general way (like a logister chamber, or sun-worshipping grots, or strange shadow demons), so that's where the Lumineth book is different in my mind. I'll have to go re-read that section, but my fuzzy memory recalls water temple having something that sounded like swordmasters (but since we have bladelords that are Vanari idk anymore), some kind of cav, wizards of course and then the great pachyderm sages (which I assume are their aelementors). The pachyderm sages were even brough up in the January White Dwarf Flashpoint, so they obviously have some rather specific ideas on them. The water temple is especially interesting since they're supposedly the most populous of the temples. Then you've got Zenith temple which is likely going to be just 1 or 2 units max and likely includes an "ascended aelf" or something along those lines. Seems to me they mostly covered Vanari, but I'm sure they could still fit a few models in there. Honestly just in that 1 or 2 pages of battletome there's still enough for 2 releases if they want to stretch it that way. I also want them to update armies like Skaven (I've held off buying any Eshin models in anticipation of an update) and Fyreslayers, but I also recognize that some armies inevitably are going to get more "models love" than others. I for one am totally okay with it being Lumineth for a few years. But this brings up a larger point, what does the current state of army model updates actually look like? Not worrying about rules, I mainly look at when their last substantive update was and how they currently are on model diversity (not visually just in terms of how many different warscrolls are there). SCE - Great Diversity, No Significant Recent Updates. Last major wave was in 2018, they've had the odd event model and now Gardus, but nothing major in a long time. CoS - Great Diversity, Some Moderate Updates Incoming/Here. Finally getting some new models with Cursed City, and apparently witch hunters soon. Maybe more who knows? Fyreslayers - Poor Diversity, No Significant Updates. Got a minor update I think in 2019 with terrain/invocations + doomseeker even further back. We all know they need more. KO - Okay Diversity, No Significant Updates. Had 1 new model with Aether War but beyond that it's only been the odd model in a boxed game or event. Their initial wave wasn't too bad, so they don't feel as bad as Fyreslayers, but honestly they haven't seen much since their release in 2017. Lumineth - Great Diversity, Recent Updates. Small initial release, but the follow-up release this year has them in a good spot model-wise. Sylvaneth - Okay Diversity, No Significant Updates (maybe soon). Got the Arch Revenant and now are getting the Warsong Revenant. They also got new terrain and spells. Honestly the biggest sticking point with them is they could maybe use 1 or 2 new non-hero units... maybe a monster, but these guys are close to being what I would think of as "model diverse". Obviously Kurnothi may or may not go a long way here. Idoneth - Okay Diversity, No Updates. Absolutely no new models since launch. There will be a WHU warband, but that doesn't really count for AoS proper. DoK - Good Diversity, Few Updates. Haven't seen much since release. New hero, spells and that's it. Oh yeah, and Shadowstalkers! BoK - Great Diversity, Recent Update. Big wave of models with AoS launch and mid-sized wave in 2019 (I think it was 2019) which updated some demons and gave judgements and terrain. Nurgle - Great Diversity, No Recent Updates. Big wave in end times iirc. I think that was the last update, but I think feculent Gnarlmaw was kinda recent? DoT - Great Diversity, No Recent Significant Updates. Big wave of new stuff with AoS 1st edition battletome, but since then only a some new spells and a hero. Slaanesh - Great Diversity, Recent Updates. Big update in 2019 then another big one this year. Model-wise these guys are doing great with more on the way. BoC - Great Diversity, No Significant Updates. AoS battletome came with spells and terrain and that's it. Skaven - Great Diversity, No Significant Updates. AoS battletome came with spells and terran plus a hero. S2D - Great Diversity, Semi-Significant Updates. A few new sculpts at the end of 2019 that were only in a SC box. Spells too. Also Warcry which is weird because a lot of the models aren't really ever used in AoS but a decent number actually are. Warclans - Good Diversity as Whole (Poor as either subfaction), No Recent Updates. Saw new stuff with Ironjawz release, but that's it outside boxed games. Gloomspite Gitz - Great Diversity, Recent Updates. Big old update with 2019. Huge model variety right now, so hard to complain. Ogor Mawtribes - Great Diversity as Whole (Okay as Gutbuster and Poor as Beastclaw), No Significant Updates. Just terrain and a new hero. Sons of Behemat - Poor Diversity, Recent Update. Brand new army. Small release, but it's clear it's not meant to be much more than it is. LoN/SBGL - Great Diversity, Update Incoming. Getting a huge update. OBR - Okay Diversity, No Updates Since Release. Mid-sized release in 2019, but nothing else since. Nighthaunt - Good Diversity, No Significant Updates. Big fat relase in 2018, but only 1 hero since. FEC - Poor Diversity, No Significant Updates. Small update with 2nd ed battletome, but that was only 1 hero plus spells and terrain. So looking at things as a whole, yeah, Lumineth will be receiving special treatment. However until a likely 3rd wave, it hasn't really gone much farther than getting them to a point where I think everyone would like their army to be.