overtninja

Alright, I've gotten back from today's tournament at my FLGS, and my Wanderers managed to squeeze out two victories! I spent all last night rebasing my models - Wanderers look so nice on round bases. :3 I took some notes after the games, they probably make no sense but they are pretty accurate. My list was Nomad Prince(Artefact: Starcaster Longbow), WayWatcher, WayFinder(general - SotHW), WayStrider, SpellWeaver, 20 GG, 20 WildWood Rangers, 20 WWR, 5 Sisters of the Watch, 5 Wild Riders, 5 Sisters of the Thorn, and a Maelstrom (the model was unavailable, so I didn't use it in either game). GAME 1: Blightlord Bullies I face this opponent pretty much every week I play, so we are both very familiar with each other's armies. The scenario was the one with the falling comets, one in turn 2 on the center line and two more on turn 3 in each deployment zone. Long story short, I hung back with everything and a unit of WWR and SotW on the far left side, having seen where he deployed - his top right flank was weak, and his two huge fat guys were in the middle, intent on plowing the whole field with both. I attempted a pretty vigorous refused flank, using my WF to teleport my WWR and SotW across the field to take the flank, where the first comet landed. All the big and small fat guys rumbled down the middle, and I pretty much fed them much of my army to hold them there while I gobbled points. The comets fell on the bottom right (utterly lost to me) and the top middle, and with time for the round running down I made a long move out and snagged the objective to secure victory. I lost about 1/2 my army to his without doing too much, but with Wanderers that's kind of how you have to do it. It was a very fun game, and if it had gone longer, I suspect I would not have been able to win on points, being severely diminished, but it would probably have been down to double turns (there were none in this match, for the first time in a long while). GAME 2: FEC Eating Elves and Yelling I understand now why people dislike FEC. All those rerolls, bonuses, and stacking abilities, none of which can be responded to or countered, really make playing against them feel bad. I know their base stats aren't that great, but between the free summoning, free command abilities, free model replenishment, extra attacks, double pile-ins, and whatever, I was running on a pretty high level of salt for a while. That said, the game itself went pretty okay - the scenario was 'burn the objectives' (no one likes this one either), and my goal was to pull my opponent in too many directions, since he was going fully aggressive with 9 crypt flappy guys and 9 crypt huge guys, a zombie dragon ghoul king, an Arch-Regend and a pile of summoned heroes. His objectives were only held by ten ghouls, so I basically went for a distraction gambit, teleporting a unit of WWR to the opposite corner and long-bomb charging them into an objective to tag it but not burn it in turn 1, while burning my own objective across from all the flying things. This caused the flying units to double back to deal with them, and the crypt huge guys plowed into my lines and absolutely obliterated my other WWR and my WW in a grisly flurry of rerolls and double pile-ins. I lost my middle objective, but critically, my opponent was so excited to charge and murder me in the center he didn't charge on the top left. This, combined with getting the double turn on turn 3, basically clinched the game for me - after burning the top left objective on my turn 2, I set up to charge his Ghoul Lord Zombie Dragon and butcher it with the 15 remaining WWR. In my movement phase, I used SotHP to teleport my SotThorn across the field to tag the middle back objective along with the Wild Riders, who had zipped across the field on the previous turn. Also, the horrible crypt bullies who ate my elves perished to a full barrage from my SotWatch in the shooting phase, and combined fire from my GG and other heroes finished off his Arch-Regent. The bottom right objective was secure and there was very little chance of my opponent making it across the field to take it. I think It would have been very close without the mistake on turn 2 from my opponent, but after my shooting phase my opponent cordially conceded the field. In all, I'm very happy with how my Wanderers did, and the list worked pretty well overall. With smart deployment, going second doesn't really hurt that much for this army, and in AoS mobility wins the day every single time. Even with only one teleport a turn, combining it with Stalker of the Hidden Ways means no objective is out of reach and nothing is truly safe, especially with a 20-strong block of SotWatch. I will try to figure out a way to bring 10 WR in the list - I could potentially bring Yriel and her 3 caballeros instead of the SotThorn, but even though their spell didn't do much I really like their mobility and light shooting support. Hopefully the GHB2019 adjusts points to make list-building easier!

Give it until they release the GHB2019, we'll be able to see what happens with the legacy model ranges there. It will probably provide a good indication of what they are planning. With that said, GHB2019 might not even come out in June, if China keeps holding the books, terrain, and endless spells hostage.

Well, that's just a mess. When I was using the official warscroll builder on the community webpage, it appeared to all check out, but it looks like that thing is just broken and doesn't even pay attention to who's the general when you try to determine core. I don't even know, at this point, how it even registered that I had enough in the first place! I'll have to contact the TO and tell them I've messed up, I'll monkey around with my list and figure it out. -_-' Thanks for the tips, everyone. edit - I'll drop the Wildriders down to 5 and take a Waystrider as well, with 20 points for an endless spell - probably quicksilver swords. This let's me take Stalker of the Endless Paths as a Command Trait and go for cheeky cross-field teleports, and use my Nomad Prince with one group of WWR and the Waystrider with the other. Sad I won't be able to use all 10 doggy boys, but I'll deal with it. double edit - I'll go with the Maelstrom, there'll be enough spells going off that I'd rather try to punish them than have a great big pile of spinning swords in my way.

I always mix up the names of the Wayfinder and Waystrider - but yeah I built the list with the 2h-sword guy as my general. You are probably right about the command trait, but of all the options I felt that it would give him the most survivability, as it means that he can't be targeted with anything unless he's closest, which saves him from ranged and melee attacks. He can still get hit with spells, but if you are sniping my 5-wound dudes with spells like that, I'm coming out ahead. I run him in the middle of one of my WWR blocks, so he can pile in if the block gets charged and not be afraid of being targeted, and he can freely charge in thanks to his 25mm base size - he can squeeze between two WWRs and get within 1/2 an inch, but still be farther away than the rangers! It takes a bit of careful positioning, and if all else fails he can just charge in and get to work.

Waystrider makes WWR Battleline, so I can bring two groups of 20 and a group of GG for my required Battleline, and it fulfills my needs for solid fighting units, one of the only ones that Wanderers have. I'm bringing 10 Wildriders because I own them, and they are the old metal 80's hair band models, and I've got them riding Fenrisian Wolves. Basically, they are too cool not to use. I also find that they have sufficient staying power, at 20 wounds, and hit hard enough that they make a great unit to tag objectives and make long-bomb charges into the sorts of units that people use to guard their objectives. I'm not going to run them with shields because I prefer their higher movement, and my general goal with them is pretty much to distract everyone, combo-charge if possible, and tag objectives. If they suck a lot of damage, it's actually better than any other outcome, since I can restore d3 models with my Spellweaver if necessary!

I've got a 2k tournament coming up this weekend, and rather than bring my angry trees, I'm going to field my Wanderers! I'm not running the battalion, so I'll definitely be going second, but doing so lets me bring basically everything good in the army, and a lot of it. List is going to be Nomad Prince (Artefact: Starcaster Longbow), Waystrider (General, CT: Mystwalker), Waywatcher, Spellweaver, 20 Glade Guard, 20 Sisters of the Watch, 10 Wild Riders, 5 Sisters of the Thorn, and two groups of 20 Wildwood Rangers for an even 2k. I'll try to take notes and stuff and post my results. I expect the rest of the field to go pretty hard for this tournament, but I've been treebullying for a few months and with the new book coming out soon (hopefully) I want to give them a bit of a rest. Besides, my local meta is really heavy into monsters, and they won't like 40 WWR up in their face with Shield of Thorns.

Can confirm, as someone gainfully employed teaching English as a second language in a non-English-speaking country. English is basically a dogpile of interesting things from other languages smashed together. It's a history of being sandwiched between many other languages, cultural jealousy, conquests, imperialism, and a general willingness to poach words, improvise or just make stuff up, as there were really no rules about spelling, vocabulary or even grammar really until like 150 years ago. It's kind of wonderful, like a complete train wreck that somehow arrives at it's destination on time in a smoking heap, with few casualties.

My club usually either assembles the table for aesthetics, usually 2 pieces of terrain per square, or we roll and then take turns putting it down. Folks in my local meta like running with big monsters, I'm known for making tree-walls to prevent charges and generally stop big non-flying monsters from getting around. It's a bit of a dirty tactic, but it's what Sylvaneth currently have (old battletome) rather than MW generation, super-magic, extreme resilience, or other faction advantages. My regular opponents tend to use terrain to stop me from filling the middle of the board with trees, and I don't blame them at all. I enjoy the mini-game of terrain deployment before the game, and it's not like my opponents don't have their own bothersome terrain to put down either. 😛 Anyway it would be a moot point if people weren't so scared of going into the woods with anything else, really. I suspect the new battletome will really help out with that, though I expect the new rules will have our enemies eating 1d3 MWs in the charge phase pretty regularly. It's hard to know if they'll hedge out big monsters the same way, but I think at this point I'd be fine either way, especially since our forces look a bit more punchy in the new book.

The new woods seem easier to put down - they aren't as restrictive and you can squeeze them into different spaces thanks to how modular they are - they don't have a set footprint. Additionally, since many abilities are now 'wholly within 6' instead of 'within 3' you don't need to be so close to them, and with only 1 teleport per turn, it's not going to be as vital to blanket the whole table with them. Lastly, I very much doubt that players will be nearly as afraid to bring their units into our woods now that they don't force every model to test vs. instant death - that's what really kept people away. With it just being mortal wounds, no one will be that scared. Now, they'll largely serve as being a LoS blocker and a way to give our kurnoth and infantry +1 armor for cover. Basically, it doesn't look like the army will be able to cover the world in trees and then castle nearly as much, so it's time to start thinking of other ways we can wreck our opponents, rather than letting the Wyldwoods do the heavy lifting for us.

I haven't cooked up many new lists yet, but I think you can bring Alarielle, Durthu, Drycha, 3 units of Spite-Revenants, Outcast Battalion, and 6 Scythe Kurnoth for 2k exactly. I'd likely drop either Durthu or Drycha for an Arch-Revenant, a Branchie of some description, and some endless spells, but that increases your drops even more. With that option you could probably even finagle another battalion for even fewer drops. I mean, you could even just use a Treelord and an Arch-Revenant, too! Good way to get another monster in there, and they're actually pretty decent anyway! I'm not totally convinced that going first is going to be totally necessary, since many armies actually don't want to go first, but there are a lot of armies that move fast enough that not going first will make it hard to put trees down. Given how important the trees have been for the army's overall strategy, it seems like a huge blow, since we really want the teleporting options and the cover. The Places of Power rules is going to be pretty solid for securing cover, and also selecting a terrain piece on an objective that your units can't be shifted from without being totally wiped off the map. With that said, the new Awakened Wildwood models appear to have have rather small footprints, and you have to put them more than 1" away from things, you they might be easier to fit in now than they were before, especially since you've got some leeway about what a 'ring' can be shaped like (in my opinion at least; I rather doubt they will be required to create perfect circles), which will make it easier to fit them around existing terrain and whatever units are there. Also, the Honest Wargamer review is like two and a half hours of doom and gloom. I understand that it's coming from the perspective of serious tournament play, but if anyone was expecting the new book to deliver cheese on the level of Skaven or FEC, they were going to be disappointed no matter what. We'll see in under a month how they adjust the points costs of certain things in the new GHB, which will likely throttle some of the abusive lists currently possible back. If anything, I'm actually happy our new book isn't shining out with imbalances, it means it won't get slapped up by the impending balance review. Anyway we've had like two days to think about the rules so far, and no one's actually played with it yet - certainly not with the new Wyldwood models. There's a lot that simply hasn't been figured out yet.

There are a lot of armies that can first-turn charge you these days - everything from FEC to Khorne to Slaanesh to Idoneth to DoK can get across the whole field and into your face in a single turn. As such, when I play Wanderers I've stopped going heavy ranged and started tanking up with a lot of WWR, because they are savage in combat, and do work on each turn. I like to bring units of GG too - one big for consistent damage (and flooding an objective) and another smaller one for support, along with a unit of SotW for reliable damage second-turn realm wandering onto the other side of the field to split my opponent's attention. I'm also a fan of WR, they are surprisingly resilient and tend to divert attention, and not slouches in combat on the charge either. I tend to ally in some Kurnoth for even more melee bite, but if you're committed to all elves everything, then really just pile on the WWR, they are a steal for their cost and they do great work. If you go really heavy into them, it honestly wouldn't hurt to bring a second NP to make sure they are getting the reroll-to-hit buff throughout the game. Honestly it's not a good idea to play any ranged-focused army at present, the game is too heavily skewed against it as a strategy in favor of having melee-only armies be viable (which is fine, but greatly diminishes the potency of many units that pay a premium for what amounts to less potency). If you do want to focus on shooting, I'd recommend getting as many 10-man units of EG as you can on the field and using them as roadblocks to keep your ranged units out of harm's way. You'll still want WWR (at least 20, I'd say) for the counter-charge, but this works pretty well.

I'd guess the wargrove itself won't, if they make wargroves work more like keyword sub-factions, but there might still be a battalion that allows you to include an order wizard ally.

I would expect rules for each Wargrove that encourages certain force compositions by providing bonuses to non-Dryad battleline units - currently Dryads are far and away the best battleline, and many strong lists just tank up on Dryads to the exclusion of other units, simply because they are so potent and cheap. I'd also expect some new battalions (for obvious reasons) and probably a reconfiguration of items and so forth to reflect current game realities. I'm most interested to see how reliant on Wyldwoods Sylvaneth will be, and how we will generate them moving forward, given that much of our current strategy seems to hinge on getting the first turn and blanketing the board so we are ensured both our mobility and our protection.

I know this is mostly a thread about how people can't get boxes, but having read through the rules for the scenarios and board rules, I'm actually kind of confused as to how to the Sylvaneth forces stand a chance for any of the scenarios. The force has much fewer wounds to play with, and much fewer targets to focus, and the Grots have mobility and pretty significant mortal wounds potential. Also, the rules for underground battles and specific scenario rules have lots of ways to generate mortal wounds, along with the MW the Grot squig riders can generate. I'm just not seeing how the sylvaneth force, at 30 wounds, half of which is in 3 models, can possibly survive any of the scenarios in the book.

Get a Start Collecting box, it gives you more than enough to get started with the game and learn the ropes. It will give you a caster hero, 20 dryads, and your choice of Treelord - personally I'd build it as an Ancient, since they are decent in combat, durable, and also a caster. You'll want to hold off currently on buying a Wyldwood - I'm sure people would let you play with a template or something while you wait for the new models to get out of China. I'd also invest in a box or two of Kurnoth Hunters, because they are pretty boss and do great work regardless of which flavor you build them as. Alarielle is very good, but is more of a super-durable support unit and force multiplier than a frontline bruiser. Her abilities make your whole army better, especially if you are running lots of multi-wound models. I'd hold off buying her until you are confident with the army and understand how it plays, as she's a significant monetary investment, as well as a big points investment. For other models, I'm a big fan of Drycha, both because of her great model and because she does great work on the table - her toolkit solves some problems that Sylvaneth otherwise have trouble dealing with. Both Tree-Revenants and Spite-Revenants are basically chaff units, despite being really great-looking models, at least with current points costs, and with Dryads being both cheaper overall and much more potent overall thanks to all the rules that help them. It's hard to say how valuable they'll be in the new book, so hold off on them maybe for the time being - but keep in mind that they might become a great option depending on how the rules end up going. We'll be getting a new book soon, so it might be reasonable to hold off buying the battletome until then. In the meantime, buy the models in the range that appeal to you and start building them up. The ones above will get you started on the right track, I think!

I'm gonna hedge my bets and see if I can't land another one from someone else's box if they part it out, I don't know if I'd use two for most games, but I'd still like two. 😛

they will sell both heroes as individual blisters later down the line.

Um, also, I just built my Arch-Revenant, and while it appears pretty monopose, you have some leeway on a few things if you are crafty. I built the first one with the stock pose, but once I get a second one, I think you could easily build it so that it's right arm (the tree-looking one holding the shield normally) is raised up, and then put the flappy sprite on that arm, and put the shield on the model's back. Then, you could angle the spear arm downward, so it looks like it's being carried rather than planted. Lastly, with a bit of trimming of the right foot (which has a little slot to fit in the skull) and a bit of repositioning, you could model the Revenent so that it looks like it's jumping off the skull and starting to fly, with the spite carrying the model. ... Maybe a picture would work better. I think it could look pretty neat!

Many other armies have FNP saves, and some even get bonuses to that FNP save if its a mortal wound. It's common enough in my local meta that I just want as many gauranteed (or nearly guaranteed) wounds after armor saves that they have to roll their FNP saves against. -2 rend does that for me, while -1 will leave many models with a 1/3 or 1/2 chance of saving. Even having seen the math, I think it boils down to a personal, emotional thing. Wargaming isn't a dispassionate pursuit - it can be hard not to be disappointed by a flubbed combat phase, or a double turn at a critical moment, or costly mistakes on your end. Even if it's not statistically ideal, seeing a whole lot of wounds go through unsaved on an attack makes me feel better as a player than seeing a bunch get saved with some mortal wounds going through. That and I play Dreadwood, so I'm already deep into gambling on good rolls, since I'm relying on fewer models to do work. I'll eventually build Sword Kurnoth, at least a group of 3, and try them out. They make great allies for my Wanderers, and they'll be nice to slot in for a 2.5k if I ever play something that big. Currently, though, I'll be building the Looncurse box and Ynarri's dudesman (who are actually fantastic to ally with Wanderers at 1k or 1.5k thanks to their cost).

Shoot it, spit spells at it, chaff it so it can't do much... when your opponent has a really strong model, especially a monster, you don't have to kill it if you can neutralize it. Also, KH with Scythes obliterate monsters. It's what they are best at. I regularly face a Nurgle player who always uses a GUO and the other huge monster dudes, and 6 Scythe Kurnoth will chew one down in a turn reliably - doubly so with the new hero giving each one an extra swing. I know that the new Sword Kurnoth are the new hotness, but I hate when I wound a lot and then my opponent makes a bunch of armor saves, so I've decided I like -2 rend more than anything. My thinking is that even with FNP saves, it still won't help you enough if I generate enough wounds. That said, I'm going to build some Bow Kurnoth and go ham on the monsters and other rough hammer units I see. Ranged in AoS seems to be a tool for weakening units and monsters before you fight them, rather than a primary killing strategy, anyway.

In my experience, Drycha is the behemoth that gets cut around 2k when you want to start fitting Alarielle and Durthu in your lists - you just don't have the points to spare on her - even though she's got really strong ranged options, her melee hits on 4s, which is really rather bad overall. All the other big trees hit on 3s, and even a normal Treelord is cheaper. It comes down to not being able to fit everything you'd want at 2k, and then taking the best options you can, I think. Anything below 2k, I want Drycha for the options she provides, and above 2k I'd happily slot her in, though. She is my favorite Really Mad/Sad Beehive Lady.

As someone who has 7 bases of Citadel Woods, I've been thinking about how to convert them to be more similar to the newer models. I'm thinking with enough greenstuff I could do a pretty convincing job - adding hight to the tree and potentially cannibalizing part of the the old bases for the crescent bases. Could save a good amount of money and add some nice variation to the tree shapes!

Let's not forget that models with ranged attacks are usually given higher point costs, since ranged is at a premium in AoS. It could be that the melee units are less expensive per group of 3.

Dreadwood Wargrove does it right now - you use Spite-Revs as your battleline and then fill the rest with heroes, Kurnoth, and big trees/Alarielle. I usually play this way, though I use a Branchwraith to summon Dryads in for extra tanking and to protect home objectives while my other models go on the offensive.

GW likes to do a week or two of previews before a release, for hype purposes, so we'd still be a few weeks out from release anyway.