SleeperAgent
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Posts posted by SleeperAgent
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22 minutes ago, Dracan said:
I took the Honest wargamer stats and made a quick graph of their AOS 2.1 vs AOS2.2 comparison for 6 May 2019 table leaving out the "non army" armies and got to this.
One can prob with certainty say Daugters to Idoneth are pretty solidly top tier with win ratios over 60% which is way too high, second tier is probably skaven to Beastmen which might need slight point adjustments, Tier 3 with Bonesplitters to Seraphon who prob need slight point drops, and last tier of armies not even competing, luckily most of them still will get new books but it does show Gloomspite and NH where pretty shafted in their bbooks.
More proof that Nighthaunt needs a buff or rework. We got a 2.0 book before all the good stuff came out. Should be handing out -3 bravery naturally and even more spells and abilities on top of it.
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1 minute ago, Neck-Romantic said:
Or a Terrorgheist! (I keep referencing them; if they open up our allies than those things will be nuts)
I had hoped from the begining for a more 'outside the box' army that killed with bravery and MW output, hoping for the Myrmourn dreadvault band to have some interesting bravery gimmick too
As someone who has fielded a Royal Terrorgheist recently, yeah it would be insane with bravery debuff. On top of how insane it already is. I just want the spooky ghosts to be able to do somewhat similarly strong stuff without needing to field "physical" units. I want my sheets to do it all by themselves
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37 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:
I also think the NH lore is just reused. The big kicker will also be how this is done, as the soul wars models are usable in legions, which was an incredibly half baked solution. If all nighthaunt become integrated into the legions book, then cool stuff opens up.
The legion of grief itself is most likely the same as the other legions with a slight spin next to grave markers etc. The bravery debuffing, while thematic, has me worried. Bravery and battleshock has been ruined a lot in my opinion, with GW handing out battleshock ignoring abilities left and right, such as terrain for goblins and beasts, where they are completely immune, not to mention high CP generation to just use inspiring presence as needed.
With many demons as well with 10 bravery, they really need some kind of magic trick in the rules to make playing the bravery and battleshock game worth anything. At the very least the army then needs the banshee battalion effect of ignoring inpisiring presence or it quickly becomes pointless if your strategy can be countered every time på 1 CP.
I dont think they really need to worry about this. HAving so many armies get battleshock passes easily means they can go BIG on bravery debuffs which help NH in many other ways. Imagine taking something down to 1-2 bravery then rolling with a couple Tomb Banshees. That thing is DEAD.
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15 hours ago, Equinox said:
Since everyone is wish-listing, here is what I would like to see:
1. No battalions. Removing them from 1000 point games eliminates 1 drop armies and limits the vast majority of armies to 1 magic item.
2. 0-1 Behemoths. At a 1000 points, a single behemoth is plenty.
3. Some type of point limit on hero models that prevents people from bringing Nagash/Morathi/etc., but doesn't stop the smaller unique heroes (Masque/Skulltaker/etc...) from being used.
4. No maximum size units. Give the option to vary the sizes of units without going to the limit means no point discounts.
5. Battleplans that are specifically written for 1000 point games
I agree with most of this. But I think we should be able to take big units, maybe not 800 points big. Cap it at 400.
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6 minutes ago, Neck-Romantic said:
Think they would update one of the other Death fsctions with a book but no new models?
They updated FEC with 1 model. It's entirely possible.
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6 minutes ago, Neck-Romantic said:
I do hope this means we can field Nagash as well in a LoG....
This could be insane
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I really expect this to end up being an unclaimed rework of the Nighthaunt book. It launched too early and every army has gotten such a better update. The only reason Stormcast was ok coming out at the same time is because they have their own grand alliance worth of models. LoG should get all NH units and some new ones should be battleline, most likely Dreadscythe Harridans. Doubtful, but I would like to see just a new generic Banshee horde unit that's battleline otherwise. They'll hopefully get some really good bravery debuff things, like spells and terrain.
On top of that, some units need point drops. Olynder could go down 20-40 (compare to the Verminlords). Kurdoss could go down 20-60. Reikenor should go down 20. Guardian of Souls needs to go down 20 or be a 2 spell wizard. Both Knight of Shrouds could go down 10-20. Hexwraiths need to go down 20-40. Spirit Hosts should just be flat 100. Mourngul needs a steep drop. Like 60-100.
Glaivewraith Stalkers need a rework. There's just no reason to take them over other options.
I've said it before, but Harridans needs to either go down in points or hit on 3's. This is assuming the bravery debuffs LoG get aren't entirely adequate. So this is more of a wait and see. They could be 140-160 for 10 if they were battleline.
Black Coach should become a hero or drop in points. Staying at 280 as a hero is decent with the deathless save aura. Without it I could see coach going down 20-40.
Something needs to have the word Spooky in it.
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24 minutes ago, soots said:
But thats my point. I really think they want to retire the nighthaunt book. Olynder is now LoG. with a brand new spanking storyline. Every unit in Nighthaunt is now LoG. NH was due for a review being 41% win rate and really lacking competitiveness, then suddenly all of the models become relevant under the LoG guise . I wouldnt be surprised if they stopped supporting nh as a standalone anymore.
This is what I expect to happen. It says Legion of Grief will include "the Nighthaunt’s full roster". So in essence it's Nighthaunt, but they can add more stuff to it. They will probably get their own terrain soon and a new book which hopefully rewrites the endless spells to be useful.
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One thing I really hope for Legion of Grief is some Banshees become battleline. Whether it's Myrmourn or Dreadscythe I dont mind.
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55 minutes ago, Neck-Romantic said:
Yes, I was always puzzled that we didnt have more Bravery interactions.
Was originally expecting us to get a 'terrorgheist' style banshee scream with 3 dice too, and disappointed we couldnt Ally one in. Perhaps now as a FEC merc....
Hopefully since it's a new legion that means 6 new spell lores to choose from. And BIG hopefully one or two of them remove bravery somehow. We have so much stuff based off bravery but can only give -1 due to NH allegiance ability. No spells, no abilities, kind of a flavor fail.
Side note: Dreadscythe Harridrans need to either hit on 3's or cost less. 90 points for 5 is whack.
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5 hours ago, swarmofseals said:
HUGE news for Nighthaunt today from Warhammer Community:
"the Legion of Grief – a new Legion of Nagash led by Lady Olynder herself who allow you to combine the terrifying might of the Nighthaunt’s full roster with Bravery-manipulating game mechanics, gravesites and more…"
While the details aren't clear yet, IMO the one thing holding Nighthaunt back more than anything else is that it just can't compete with Legion of Nagash's ability to recycle units. This could fix that.
I have wanted more bravey debuffs, this sounds perfect. Gravesites are just gravy on top.
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Annnnnnnd it's already sold out online.
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1 hour ago, gronnelg said:
Can I wait to see if casting roll is successful before I use a warp spark to reroll?
Yes.
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22 minutes ago, Overread said:
Seraphon are like Skaven - old but well rounded and well survived from the launch of AoS. Whilst new stuff would be nice much of it would be revamping what is already there so I can well see them easily passing over and going for new stuff in other armies. And that's fair - both those armies are big (by AoS standards) and they don't need new toys or tools to work as they've got pretty much everything including most of their war engines and siege gear.
We would actually just like our toys to be made of plastic.
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15 hours ago, Tropical Ghost General said:
But if we did get a terrain piece, a guaranteed way to revive entire dead summonable units would be so good.
A way to be immune to battleshock would be great as we could actually take hordes rather than MSUs.
But I'm a realist and if we get anything I expect that it will just be something that gives -1 bravery (like sinister terrain) but a range of 12" rather than 1", but the affected unit has to be wholly within to be get the debuff. That way it falls in line with a lot of the other guff we have 😂.
What if it was like a herdstone. Starts at 12" and every turn it got 6" bigger, and the bravery debuff is equal to the turn. So turn 3 every enemy within 24" (not wholly) get minus 3 bravery, plus our natural Nighthaunt debuff. That would be sweet. That would make a lot of our abilites better without changing them.
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5 minutes ago, Qrow said:
Completely agree, is there a hard rule that a model with 10+ rules must degrade? It seems to be like that in 40K.
I for a minute thought that you meant that unmodified 6s would cause 2 mortal wounds, and then continue on rolling to wound like normal, which would also be amazing. That exact ability is what makes Legion of Azgorh fireglaives so powerful.
They give him that and he can stay at 300
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52 minutes ago, Qrow said:
Brackets? As in the damage table?
Yeah, as in don't make him weaker as he takes damage.
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3 hours ago, Greasygeek said:
None really, but if I had to say my guess would be on Myrmourn Banshees going up to a 100pts.
Maybe also the Dreadblade Harrow increased to 120pts. Though Squishy, that guy is my go to general very often.
But on that same topic.
How much do you think the following should cost for you to consider them in your lists?
Glaiverwraith Stalkers? Rework Needed
Dreadscythe Harridans? Extra bravery debuff?
Lady Olynder? 200 points or lower. Or increase wounds to 10+.
The Craven King? 160.
Knight of Shroud (on foot)? Needs something changed.
Our Pointless Spells?* Complete rework or make them free. Terminexus could be ok as is if opponent didn't ever get to choose what it does or how it moves like Khorne judgments.
*: Endless spells.
Aside from what I listed above, Mourngul should be 240 points or less. And I've been saying this since the nerf, he is not the rules boogeyman he once was. The game has caught up with, and surpassed him. Either give him back the unrendable 3+ and separate mortal wound protection on 4+ or drop him 60-100 points. Aside from that, drop him 20-40 points and take the brackets away. A fair compromise.
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This has probably been answered before, but what is the Archregents base size? I wanna build FEC but I refuse to pay ebay scalper prices of $50+.
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8 minutes ago, ByronicHero said:
I see, so the unit I choose to summon doesn't matter - just the name of the ability. Thanks.
Well each one summons different things. ArchRegent is the only one that can summon different models.
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43 minutes ago, ByronicHero said:
Am I right in my understanding that the AGK and AAR summoning command abilities can be used as many times as command points allow?
I am considering juggling my list a little to fit in a TG or RZD instead of my block of 6 horrors, which would also allow me to start with an extra command point with which to summon 3 of them anyway alongside the free throne summon and AGKOTG summon I was already going to do.
Am I missing anything that precludes this or makes it stupid? (I like the dragons).
The wording allows you to use each one a single time per battle. "Pick a friendly unit that has command this ability that has not used it before this battle". So you can use AAR's Summon Imperial Guard once, AAGK's Summon Men-at-arms once, AGKoZD's Summon Courtier once, and AGKoTG's Summon Royal Guard once. Since they all have seperate names.
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6 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:
Retired, meaning you want them gone for good or just resculped in plastic?
Resculpted in plastic.
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8 minutes ago, Laststand said:
Question @SleeperAgent. What do you want to be able to do? I assume if you want to go skryre you will have at least one unit of stormfiends. 3 dont do much so it would have to be 6-9. Thatbleaves you with 2 battleline to find. Could you not convert 2xunits of 5 acolytes? (I agree with @mmimzie and @Skreech Verminking that they are amazing in decent numbers). 120 points for both of them and then you can do anything you want with the rest of the army.
Or is it that you want 1 clanrat/giant rats unit as a screen but not 3?
Personally i think the battleline restrictions are ok. They make things interesting and list building is always a feast of options.
Realistically I want to be able to use Grey Seer (with or without bell) and a verminlord (maybe some other non-skryre heros). The only way to do this is with 3 units of Clanrats or Stormvermin. And those units look nothing like my Skryre ones. I want a decent unit of battleline thats between paper acolytes and costly stormfiends.
And more importantly, I want ALL metal miniatures retired.
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11 minutes ago, mmimzie said:
There is a artifact that lets you make a terrain feature a gnawhole for eshin. (if you said as much sorry this is a pre bed post).
Anyway that teleporter thing just isn't our thing. We are like humans with super swingy randomness, but very high average numbers. So we can get high average numbers that can some times fall completely flat.
Our clan rats are among some of the toughest units per pts
Plague monks are one of if not the most killy unit per pts
Warp lightning cannon is the best character sniper in the game
Warp Vortex is the best endless spell in the game
Jazails are a premo killy shooty unit.
Warpseer might be the tankiest 2 spell mage for his pts in the game?? (with artifact help of course)
We definitly have a lot going for us and things other armies simply don't have, but we are at our core a jack of all trades armies and we can only master a few:
We have teleport options C or B tier
Melee kill option S tier
Anvil options A+/S tier
Shooting options SSS tier (no one else shoots and does well)
Magic A/S tier
So you can either mix all the above or go hard on one. I think maybe stormfiends are meh??The Eshin artefact is just ******. You can make anything a Gnawhole for one turn, but your general has to be there, and you are still limited to one teleport per turn.
Stormfiends are indeed "meh" for their point cost. Acolytes are even worse. The problem I have is that I want to play Skryre but the battlelines are either a cheap piece of tissue paper, or 720 points of "meh". Not to mention the costs of Skryre models. 3 jezzails is $52, 1 model of Acolytes is $10 (need minimum of 5) and they both look like dogshit.
I want the army to have some differences. But lumping them all into one book and not expanding on some of the weaker clans just homogenized all the lists into 60-120 clanrats and some things after that. I really think they should remove the battleline restrictions on all the battleline units that have them. Its such a ridiculous restriction on your army that EVERY unit has to be the same clan and almost forces you to just take clanrats.
And why didn't Skryre get the Verminlord Warpseer? Corruptor is Pestilens, Deceiver is Eshin, Warbringer is Verminus....
AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion
in Death
Posted · Edited by SleeperAgent
The boat seems absolutely worthless. Wholly within 3 in the hero phase is next to impossible. Then if you do pull it off you just get a 12" move and 1 model is slain. This will never see play.
The bridge is alright, I wish the initial setup was 18" and if in Shyish it was 30". But more bravery debuffs are always welcome.
Horrorghast is perfect. Gimme dat -2 bravery.
Shards are a much better spell than predatory spells. They don't punish you for keeping the first turn in the round. Also pretty sure they can make Lord Executioner unkillable. Because you can already get him to -2 hit from units and -3 from heros. This makes it -4. If you use Geminids it's -5.