dmorley21

I was inspired by the idea of an optimized list for Nighthaunt not based on just using the stuff we/I like and came up with this: Harrow (General/RotSH/Aetherquartz Brooch) Reikenor (Soul Cage) Spirit Torment (Pendant of the Fell Wind) Guardian of Souls w/ Nightmare Lantern 40 Chainrasps 40 Chainrasps 10 Reapers 2 Chainghasts 10 Bladegheists 10 Bladegheists The Condemned battalion/Chronomantic Cogs/Purple Sun/Command Point 2000 pts exactly. 136 wounds/7 drops/2 command points I'd set up the Chainrasps on the table. They'll be a massive footprint that you can use to grab objectives, tarpit an opponent's model/unit, and just have board control. With the re-rolls they get out of the battalion, they can actually sneak in a little damage at times too which might take an opponent by surprise. They'll still wilt pretty easily to most combat units, but they have enough wounds for it to take more than a single combat phase. Reikenor starts on the board too and sends out Purple Sun as soon as possible to give the opponent something to think about. The Reapers and two units of Bladegheists will then be used to deepstrike. On the turn when you think you'll deep strike them, cast Cogs. Overall, I think if someone wants to be as competitive as possible with Nighthaunt, you've got to have two units of 40 Chainrasps. They're cheap and so very useful to have as the big footprint unit you deploy in the beginning of the game, which gives you more freedom with your better stuff. Now, I don't care for huge units like that, so I would probably never field it. But that's probably how to play the most optimized lists.

They lack elite hammers and anvils IMO. For hammers, there's a few options. Bladegheists can get the job done, but most tend to use them in units of 10. Reapers are still great against units of 10+ and if you face an opponent that relies on one unit you can take Reapers in the Death Stalkers battalion. Some people have luck with Myrmourns and I think Harridans are underrated. As for the lower model count, some people swear by Spirit Hosts. I haven't tried them as I don't see it, but they are a lower model count build. The Death Riders battalion is another option for a lower model count.

Yeah, it really is there for deep striking or charging after teleporting. If you're just using it to increase movement, then Pendant of the Fell Wind has you covered. The other thing worth noting for Cogs, is that if you don't need the bonus for charges that turn, it's great to camp Reikenor next to it so he can use his casting bonus to get off two spells.

Way to go! I'm having trouble fitting Cogs into lists with it going up in points, but it's still important for me because I do like to deepstrike. It just adds something else for my opponents to think about even if it doesn't work for me. I agree about Slaanesh and Skaven being probelms for Nighthaunt, but I don't think Fyreslayers are as bad. They're a slower army, so we can dance around them pretty well. I also typically run 60 Reapers in a Death Stalkers battalion, which can chew through their slow, death star builds. I've started looking at other, MSU style builds, but if you know you're playing Fyreslayers, that's the way to go.

There's some debate right now about how viable a list with the Death Riders battalion is. That's really the only way to avoid hordes as they army is designed rules and fluff wise to be hordes. You can and probably should run lots of small units, but your model count will still approach 90ish.

I'm wondering if I missed this, but is the book for Forbidden Power going to be available to purchase digitally in the app?

180 as in GHB.

I'd go with Pennant. The D6+3 lantern is really nice when you successfully cast the spell, but at 6+ that won't be all the time whereas the pennant always works. I once brought back 9 Harridans with that lantern which was epic, but I've had it not work multiple times.

I'm pretty sure units deployed in the underworld don't lower your drops. Am I reading that wrong?

I honestly think double battalions may still have a place in MSU style armies. They get you a command point. We know command points are really important for NH. They get you an additional artefact. Aetherquartz Brooch, Pendant of the Fell Wind, Wychlight Lantern, Midnight Tome - those are all really strong artifacts IMO that really upgrade our heroes. Command points are worth 50 pts and are important for our army. How many points would you say those artefacts are worth? I'd say at least 25 pts. So that's 75 points before you consider the special rules of the battalion or that it lowers your drops. Since many of us are into minimum sized units now, let's take a look at minimum battalions. Shroudguard - 410/460: 2 x 5 Bladegheists, MKoES/Reikenor - 16/17 wounds... 25.7/27 pts per wound... 3 chances for WoT Deathriders - 760: 1 Harrow, 2 x 5 Hexwraiths, 1 Black Coach - 37 wounds... 20.5 pts per wound... 4 chances for 9+ WoT The Condemned - 660: 1 Torment, 1 x 2 Chainghasts, 2 x 20 Chainrasps - 49 wounds... 13.5 pts per wound... 4 chances for WoT Chainguard - 580: 1 Guardian, 2 x 20 Chainrasps - 45 wounds... 12.9 pts per wound... 3 chances for WoT Execution Horde - 540: 1 Executioner, 3 x 3 Spirit Hosts - 32 wounds... 16.9 pts per wound... 4 chances for WoT Death Stalkers - 620: 1 Wraith, 2 x 10 Reapers, 2 x 4 Stalkers - 32 wounds... 19.4 pts per wound... 5 chances for WoT Shrieker Host - 520: 1 Tomb Banshee, 2 x 5 Harridans, 2 x 4 Myrmourns - 22 wounds... 23.7 pts per wound... 5 chances for WoT That's interesting. Deathriders remains the most expensive battalion, but Shroudguard is actually the worst bang for your buck for both wounds and WoT opportunities. Shrieker Host got cheaper but is still really expensive per wound. Obviously things change if you max some of the units, but it's interesting food for thought. I think there may be room for a double battalion MSU list. Or maybe I rely too much on command points and artefacts.

I tend to agree that Blades don't work that well in max sized units. It really takes away from their abilities, and they're expensive. If you want to run full sized units, I'd suggest trying Harridans instead. You're paying 40 less points so with three full sized units that's an extra 120 points. There's a lot you can do with those extra points. Then, if you look at the damage output, Harridans actually do better than Blades on turns when Blades don't charge and if the Blades don't have a nearby ST/Chainghast. With the new command ability to re-roll 1s, Harridans can be supported by characters other than Spirit Torments. And while everyone focuses on the fact that they need to face low bravery opponents for one of their abilities, I've always had a lot of success with their double damage ability. Helps to do a couple extra wounds.

Anyone catch the Nighthaunt faction reaction podcast today from The Honest Wargamer? Playing the army as an MSU type force was brought up a bit. I know some of you have done that as well. Curious to hear other thoughts.

Mannfred dropped to 380, which makes him a potential ally for 2000 pt games. He's got good speed and his command ability seems useful. What does everyone think about him?

I don't think a General's Handbook has ever changed a warscroll, so I wasn't hoping for that. We'll have to wait for a new book for that.

Thanks for pointing that out to me. Overall, it seems like anyone who wanted to run a Death Riders style list is winning the most from these changes. Also my days of running the Death Stalkers battalion with 60 Grimghast Reapers seem over. I figured the Reapers would go up, but hoped the Stalkers and Cairn Wraith would go down.

Can anyone make out the points for the battalions? It's too blurry for me.

I don't see either happening anytime soon, but I'd rather have a new book that rewrites some war scrolls instead of a piece of terrain. To me, Nightmare Lanterns and Black Coaches should be as close to terrain as the army gets due to the lore of the army. As for the new GHB, is anybody else hoping for battalion point drops? I think that could have a large impact.

I agree with this. It's really good in theory, however our army is command point starved. It's hard to give one away.

I always thought based on the background in the book that it made sense to eventually have two armies: Legion of Grief led by Lady Olynder as another Legion of Nagash and Nighthaunt as a force of destruction, allied with nobody. I'd rather see this happen and honestly might sell my stuff if we're just another legion of Nagash.

What does everyone think of the new contrast paints for Nighthaunt? As someone new to painting, I'm pretty excited.

I actually think Myrmourn Banshees will drop in price. I'd guess that Chainrasps, Spirit Hosts, Harrows, Spirit Torments, Reapers, Cairn Wraiths, Reikenor, and Bladegheists all stay the same. Reapers might go up to 180 for 10 so they match Bladegheists. Everything else I would expect to drop. I think if Reikenor/Kurdoss/Olynder were 160/180/200 it would make some sense. Stalkers need to be dropped to 40 for 4. Harridans 70 for 5 (same as Reapers now). Both KoS should drop 20 pts. Hexwraiths really need to drop to 120 before I'll consider them. I wouldn't take the endless spells ever... there's always other spells I would rather cast. I also think some battalions need to drop in price. Shriker Host has no battleline and requires 4 units and hero. There's no way it should be 140.

I'm honestly surprised Skaven haven't appeared in 40k.

So I've got a hobby question for you all. I've been using cotton on the bases of my models to attempt to create a "just emerged from the underworld fog." However, I found this to not be very practical for actual gaming. I've only played at my house so far with friends, but am hoping to be able to travel to gaming stores this summer to play against a larger variety of opponents. So, a few questions: Has anyone else gone for this effect? If so, any tips? I am in the process of magnetizing my models as I have found the cotton loves to stick to the old-school GW foam that I have... and also the models don't fit in my old carrying case.

Where is that stated? The ability doesn't specify you can't use it on successful charge rolls, and I don't see it in the charge section... pages 3 and 5 respectively via the app.

I've always played that you can only try it once. I just have the option to re-roll for multiple units.