dmorley21

There's definitely merit to the first part of what you're saying, as the list from the GT showcases. However, I was under the impression that if I a run a 4 drop list (Death Stalkers, Shroudguard, GoS, Chainrasps) that I could deep strike part of the battalions and thus 5 units in that particular setup so it wouldn't harm the deployment tactics too much. I cut off a lot of your post to make it more manageable. I'm located in Michigan in the US and thanks for the offer but don't worry about it. I'm still trying to build up to a 2k force, so I really shouldn't be throwing money at pretty replacement models as that's all it seems that it is at this point. I agree that the battalions are lacking. The one I can't quite get a feel for on paper is Shroudguard. After facing 4+/4+ Phoenix Guard, I like the idea of unrendable 4+/5+ but worry that Reikenor (who I would take) is just too squishy. I'd also love to hear some battle reports or even just a quick summary of the strategy used. Wow! I played 3 games and had no problem casting Cogs. Glad you still managed to have a good game! I still think that Reikenor + Cogs are musts if you plan to deep strike. Though, it's another reason why lowering your drops and getting the first turn is so important as he is pretty easy to delete if someone really wants to. The poor Black Coach is such a cool looking model but I just don't see how it's worth its points. It should have been a hero and either a spellcaster or summoner IMO.

Unfortunately I won't be getting the new model - my closest store is 3 hours away. Thanks @Tropical Ghost General and @Espy85 for sharing how you're finding success with your lists. There was some debate on another thread that one of the problems with Nighthaunt is simply the players not knowing how to play them yet, so it's great to see strategy shared. It's also neat that there were three different lists being discussed, all of which were finding success. As a new/returning player, this stuff helps me immensely. On another note, a Nighthaunt list just had major success at the Warhammer GT. It was a very balanced list, but what struck me was the lack of battalions. I had got it into my head that our army really wanted to lower drops to have a chance to control the order of the first turn, but maybe I had it wrong. If one avoids the battalions, it allows one to take a really varied list with a lot of units and heroes. That list in particular had 98 infantry and I believe 5 heroes. So what are everyone's thoughts on that list? And did anyone have a chance to see how the list was being used?

No need to apologize for the long post - it's exactly what I was hoping for! It's really smart how you split your battalion into groups, though I'd be worried that the 4 Myrmourn Banshees would die too easily. When I faced LoN, I wasn't causing enough damage to his units for them to even need to take a Battleshock test. I was facing Phoenix Temple, not Order Draconis. Their infantry's (which gets a 4+/4+) rule is that they do not need to take battleshock tests if within 8" of a hero. Hero sniping is very difficult, as their hero rides a Phoenix. Still, I'm glad to hear the battalion works for you. I don't think it will against the armies that I will be facing most frequently, but maybe I'll build it eventually and play it at a local store. One more question - what's your intent with the Banshee in terms of making her your general and giving her the first command trait? They do seem like lists that are pretty easy to grasp. Neither's quite my style, but I see the merits of both. How much success have you had with them?

Well, I'm all for speeding up the game. I'll have to look into them once I gather my force. Have you posted your Death Stalkers and Chainguard lists? I'm always curious to see lists and hear about how they perform. Thanks for sharing! I find it interesting that you don't go for a unit of 12 Myrmourns. When I had originally planned it, I planned to take to units of 10 Chainrasp and a unit of 30 Reapers to fulfill the battleline. A couple questions for you: 1) What heroes do you take? Obviously a Tomb Banshee... do you equip her with anything? 2) How often did you face armies that more or less ignored battleshock? I'm having doubts because it seems like I will primarily be playing against Legions of Nagash (bravery 10) and Phoenix Temple (they ignore battleshock). Did you still have success against these armies? Yep! All of those are reasons why I'm having second thoughts about it. It would be nice if it could also include Lady Olynder as she's not in any of the battalions. If we're wish listing, here's what I would love: 1-4 of Lady Olynder, The Briar Queen and her peeps, Tomb Banshees 1-2 Dreadscythe Harridans 1-2 Myrmourn Banshees Then keep the special rule and add an additional -1 to bravery for units within 6" of the battalion if they're bravery is normally higher than 6.

Movement trays? I thought round bases were to eliminate things like that. I'm not sure if I feel like spending money on that, but I'll consider. Does it limit your flexibility with arranging the unit and piling in? And yeah, I just jumped into a thread about Grims getting nerfed. I'd say 90 is definitely power gaming, but their battalion requires 2 units of them so I can't see myself doing less than 60 if I take that battalion. And since I want to lower my drops (learned this first hand this weekend when I got KO'd by a Black Knight charge and walled by a unit of Phoenix Guard in my two losses while walling my opponent's entire army in my single win) I'll probably take the battalion. My hope is to build a three or four drop list. I'm hoping that if Grimghast Reapers go up in points costs, other units/characters go down. Or else a difficult army to play will get even more challenging.

So I finally got together with my buddies and played my first three games this weekend. My list was: Reikenor+Cogs, GoS, 20 Reapers, 10 Chainrasps, 4 Myrmourn Banshees, 10 Dreadscythe Harridans. I played against a Legions of Nagash (Wight King, 2 Necros, 40 Skellies, 10 Black Knights, 5 Dire Wolves, 5 Grave Guard) list twice and Phoenix Temple once (Annointed on Frost Phoenix, Frost Phoenix, 10 Phoenix Guard, 20 Phoenix Guard). The first game was against Legions of Nagash playing Duality of Death and I scored a major victory as I was able to deep strike my Reapers and Harridans to tie up his entire army for most of the game. The second game was also against Legions of Nagash playing Knife to the Heart and I ended up conceding defeat on turn 3. My Reapers successfully deep struck his Skellies and to my surprise wiped out the whole unit only to then get wiped out in one go from the Black Knights who then proceeded to kill my Harridans and Reikenor leaving me with nothing but my Chainrasps and GoS to face down his entire army minus the Skellies (he had resurrected his wolves). The third game I also ended up conceding. I never got near his objective which was held by 10 Phoenix Guard. The 20 Phoenix Guard were able to survive several rounds against a combination of my Chainrasps, Harridans, and Reapers before the Anointed showed up to finish off my units. I did end up killing all of the 20 Phoenix Guard, but it was too late. Some thoughts on my units: My heroes were great. Reikenor + Cogs worked out as well as I had hoped and the GoS as my general was fantastic. I gave it the +3 to Spectral Lure item and at one point it returned 9 Harridans from the dead! So those three models are keepers. Reapers are Reapers - I've read enough to know that they were going to do well. I did make the mistake of trying to use them to take out an individual character the first game, and realized it's just not an effective use for them at all. The Chainrasp Horde never saw action in the first two games, and then were simply there in the third game. I used them as objective sitters. The Harridans were better than I had expected. In particular I appreciated their extra damage on 6's. However, I was left wishing they were Bladegheists because there were a lot of times when I could have done a retreat through a unit and charged a more important target. The Banshees also did better than I expected. They unbound a Vanhel's in the first game my other casters weren't in range of, tied up the Wight King in the second game for three turns, and worked in conjunction with Reikenor to kill a Frost Phoenix the third game. Overall thoughts: My army felt very incomplete. I can't wait to get enough for a 2000 pt game. As somebody who last played WHFB, moving Grimghast Reapers is a pain! I only had 20 and will likely have 60 at 2k... I'm not looking forward to that. I struggled with killing characters. I plan to build a Death Stalkers battalion and hope that will help. I found smaller units were actually better at killing characters so I'm hoping that can be a purpose for the Glavewraiths that seem rather bad but are necessary for the battalion. I had planned to build a Shrieker Host at 2k (which is why I have 10 Harridans and 8 Myrmourns) but now I know that the battleshock phase doesn't really impact my main two opponents so that plan is no longer. Bummed I spent the money on the models, but they didn't seem bad so it's okay. I also learned to deep strike Black Knights over Skellies as they are deadly on the charge and that Phoenix Guard simply don't die with their 4+/4+ and immunity to battleshock. I spent so much time worrying about the Phoenixes preparing for facing that army that I didn't consider how unmovable the Guard were.

I don't like the fluff of the Torment and also think it's a pretty bad synergy both fluff and actual gameplay wise. Fluffwise the synergy should be with Chainrasps. In gameplay, the Torment moves 6" which negates the speed of the Bladegheists and their ability to charge a unit, retreat through it, and charge something behind it while still getting re-rolls. They really ought to have something that gives them re-rolls on a charge while the Torment ought to make hordes of Chainrasps an actual threat. But to your original point, they probably are better than Harridans.

To each their own I suppose - I got them because I specifically enjoyed their fluff and aesthetic (though honestly there should be male and female ones as I'm sure there's male healers in the mortal realms and I don't care for the flowers in the hair). Unfortunately, in a couple of test games against myself I'm finding even a unit of 10 at 500 pts to not really end up doing enough damage. They have a ton of attacks but are built in a way where it's hard to get everyone into the fight with the 1 inch range and I've found that even though they have a ton of attacks hitting on a 4+ without re-rolls isn't quite cutting it. So, I'm no longer sold on them. The battalion ability is great, but it's great against horde units which Grimghasts already mow down with ease. I'll see how they do for me in a couple 1000 pt games and then decide whether I want to keep going that route or not.

Thanks for the suggestions. We're playing 1000 pts and for now I'm just going to use models that I have. I got the Myrmourn and Harridans because I was planning to build a Shrieker Host at 2k but I'm having 2nd thoughts about it. I'll plan to deepstrike something (probably Harridans and Banshees) into the Phoenix to lower its wounds and make it not as dangerous. Thanks for the tip!

Is this normally the case? The unique Guardian of Souls has different rules and this model is carrying a weapon that other Bladegheists don't carry, so I thought she would have her own rules.

At a minimum I hope she counts as a unit champion and gets an extra attack with her other weapon.

I know some people have had luck with them as a core part of the army, but on paper they seem better at being used as a flanking force due to their speed and wound count. They're capable of grabbing objectives and hunting down lone, small heroes. Here's a different question, or rather, scenario for you all: Two of my buddies and I are getting together next weekend to play our first game/s of AoS. While I sold my old WHFB army to start Nighthaunt, they'll be making a force out of their former armies (Vampire Counts and High Elves). So a couple questions with this. What do you think is a good battleplan to start off using? My one buddy will likely be putting one of his Frostheart Phoenixes in his list. What's a good way to deal with that? My force will consist of models that I currently have, which include: Reikenor + Cogs Guardian of Souls 10 Chainrasp 20 Grimghast Reapers 10 Dreadscythe Harridans 8 Myrmourn Banshees I'm planning to only bring 4 Myrmourn banshees to make the points work, but I can always change my mind if they're the best bet against the phoenix.

Yeah, lots of takes on even that type of build. So many options! I think Blades with their battalion don't need other support heroes. The 4+/5++ should allow them to survive and while getting re-rolls for them are nice I think they are pretty powerful without re-rolls. I definitely could be wrong though! Overall, I think your list is really solid. I'd use the additional 40 pts for another endless spell. As for artefacts I think any of the lanterns, midnight tome, and pendant of the fell wind are really good depending on how you want to play. I don't think you can go wrong with midnight tome. Do you know that math on that? I thought the KoS would be better for something like Dreadscythe Harridans.

All too true. I'm personally happy with my theme of spirits rebelling against Nagash that focuses on a Shrieker Host. However, I'm pretty sure a list like the one below would do well at tournaments: Guardian of Souls (General, Ruler of the Spirit Hosts, Soul Cage, Beacon of Nagashizzar) Reikenor the Grimhailer Cairn Wraith (Pendant of Fell Wind) 30 Grimghast Reapers 20 Grimghast Reapers 10 Chainrasp Horde 15 Bladegheist Revenants 10 Bladegheist Revenants 4 Glavewraith Stalkers 4 Glavewraith Stalkers Shroudguard Death Stalkers Chronomantic Cogs Suffocating Gravetide That's 4 drops, 2 extra command points, 109 wounds, 93 infantry (most of which cause a ton of damage), 3 heroes, and clocks in at 1990 pts. It has a ton of board presence, is very maneuverable, and should be able to cut through almost anything in its way. And there's a lot of different takes on it. Is the second battalion worth it to lower the drops when you could drop it and add a support hero and/or more models? Suffocating Gravetide for board control or a different endless spell with the extra 40 pts? Etc., etc. Yet I haven't seen that type of list at a tournament yet. Now, maybe I've missed some, but I think that list would do well. What do you all think?

I think Nighthaunt is tier 2, but I've yet to see a tournament list that I thought was a true power list. Most lists seemed more aimed at personal taste (which is fine and what I will be doing). A power list would feature two units of 30 reapers and then probably the Shroudguard battalion as support. Or a unit or two of 40 Chainrasps with heavy hitting support. Most lists don't have nearly enough models to make the most of the list. Mine won't either most likely. There's just a lot of cool and fun stuff. I don't think it would have made sense for them to ignore battleshock. But more ways to reduce bravery does seem like it is missing. An endless spell, regular spell, artefact, unit... anything. The reaper spell, cairn wraith, and black coach would all make sense. Maybe an additional -1 on a turn when charged by Nighthaunt. Any of those things would have helped with what's meant to be a shock force.

I'm wondering about this too. Also, with my Shrieker Host, does it count as deploying 1 unit or 5 units off the table?

I'm not sure they're fast enough to be character assassins. As for utility roles, for 20 more points I'd rather take 10 Chainrasp Horde. They won't assassinate characters (though I'm not sure Stalkers could either) but they can grab/hold remote objectives and with 10 models can form miniature screens.

I agree about mathhammer not usually working out in actual games, which is why I focused on what they could do without buffs. Chances are, even if you play well, you'll be attacking without buffs at various times - at least if you're playing a good opponent. And I'd argue it's quite likely your Bladegheists will participate in more combats where they didn't just charge then where they did - all of your opponent's phases, and then you opponent can block you in so you can't retreat and charge. Shroudguard is probably the better, more well-rounded battalion. Honestly the most competitive Nighthaunt list would probably feature three units of 30 Reapers. Shroudguard would be next. But I think Shrieker Host can be right there too. At least, that's my hope. I haven't compared the Tomb Banshee to the Chainghasts - they don't mesh with my army's fluff. Same with the Spirit Torment. I think the Tomb Banshee isn't great, but with the midnight tome she's a cheap spell caster and if she's up against a low bravery army she can cause a lot of damage.

There are numbers earlier in this thread that showed that Harridans without buffs do better than Blades on turns when Blades don't charge. As for the models, I don't mind them and definitely don't hate them like others. And I love the fluff for them and the banshees. I agree that the battalion tax is a lot. I wish it was 1-2 units of Harridans and Banshees. Right now my plan is 20 and 5 Harridans and 12 and 4 Banshees. I plan on putting midnight tome on my Tomb Banshee which should make her useful. I also love her for nostalgic reasons when I first started playing in WHFB 6th Edition and my buddies played O&G and Skaven. But still, an 80 pt caster with a shooting attack has uses. At least I know my Nighthaunt army will probably be a lot different than what I play. Yeah I plan on using Gravetide in my 2k list. Do you think Jaws is better than Gravetide? I'm not too worried about them. They've always had deep striking abilities historically, but Nighthaunt can do it much better with fly. Their headstone won't lower our ethereal saves. And while the herdstone can protect them from battle shock, the range on turns 1 and 2 is limited. And their naturally low bravery is a juicy target for Tomb Bamshees.

You're right about the shriek ability not being really feasible, but I still think they are underrated. They always have 3 attacks, and their attacks can do 2 damage. That's pretty nice. However, their battalion abilities are crazy good. Preventing Inspiring Presence and making your opponent re-roll rolls of one in the battle shock phase along with being able to deep strike and fly makes taking out any specific unit really easy when you consider the amount of damage they can do. I think there's a lot of potential there.

Here's a different question: what endless spells have people had success with other than Chronomantic Cogs? In particular, I'm wondering if anyone has tried one that also debuffs bravery as I'm looking to run a Shrieker Host and would like to use something with our allegiance ability to lower enemy bravery. So, any thoughts?

I think it has some potential, especially if there's always something you want to alpha strike in your meta. If you take it, I'd see Reikenor and Chronomantic Cogs being a must as you really want to make sure you get that deep strike charge off against the unit/model you want. I'm considering building a Shrieker Host at 2k that acts similarly. However, I heavn't really considered running that battalion because Glavewraith Stalkers are such a weird unit that just don't really fit with the rest of the army. I'm on the fence about building toward Shroudguard or Shrieker Host, but am leaning toward the Shrieker Host partially because I think Shroudguard will end up being very common. If I were building the unit, I would go for units of 20 and 10. I think 5 is just too small for them to be effective in any capacity. Also, I find it odd that Myrmoruns were sold out for weeks as I haven't seen them in many lists. I know they were, and I bought two boxes myself, but I really haven't seen many people talking about actually using them. I can't answer most of your questions as I still haven't played my first game, but this one I feel like I can. Cogs (and Reikenor IMO) are necessary if you want to attempt a deep strike charge. Reikenor with his candles is the most likely to get the spell cast, and the extra 2" on the charge means you only need to roll a 7 to successfully charge a unit, instead of a 9. That's very significant. However, if you're building an army where you don't care as much if you can charge on the turn you deep strike, then it's not necessary at all.

Thanks for the report. It seems like Olynder did a lot for you. I haven't thought about using her because she seems too fragile and like too much of a target. What did she do for your that made her so good? Very nice. What color are you using on your ghosts? 1) You can use both at 2000 pts, but probably not at a 1000. There's a list that won a tournament at 2000 pts that used both. 2) They're two of the most expensive units in the list, so I'd guess you'd want to put them with Chainrasp Hordes so you could get your numbers up there. 3) I'm not sure all of those units would combine to form the best force. They're all pretty expensive. But that's no reason not to try! 4) It seems to me like almost all lists will want Reikenor and Chronomantic Cogs so that you can charge an enemy on your first turn. Also, I haven't seen many using this, but it seems like a unit of 10 Chainrasp Horde is a cheap but semi-durable screen for units you want to protect.

I just want to say that some Nighthaunt do not serve Nagash. Some are natural occurrences and some were who fought against Nagash were released by some Idoneth Deepkin per the battletome.

All right, here's my first try at a Vanguard list for my first game which will be the end of September or beginning of October. Allegiance: Nighthaunt Leaders Reikenor the Grimhailer (180) - Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist Cairn Wraith (60) - General - Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts - Artefact: Midnight Tome Battleline 20 x Grimghast Reapers (280) 10 x Chainrasp Horde (80) Units 8 x Myrmourn Banshees (160) 10 x Dreadscythe Harridans (180) Endless Spells Chronomantic Cogs (60) Total: 1000 / 1000 Extra Command Points: 0 Allies: 0 / 200 Wounds: 59 I currently have the models for Reikenor, the Reapers, and the Banshees. My buddy has models for a Cairn Wraith, Tomb Banshee, 10 Hexwraiths, and 3 Spirit Hosts that I can borrow. Overall here's my thoughts: I'll deploy Reikenor and my battleline on the field and use the Wraith, Banshees, and Harridans to deep strike. The Chainrasp Horde will be used as a screen. I will use the Cogs to help get Banshees and Harridans into battle with specific units. The Wraith is there to support them (he was all I had room for) and support them with his command trait. I know the Banshees are probably not the best use of points in a Vanguard game, but I like their versatility to defend against magic and be assassins for high rend units. I am still on the fence between Harridans and Bladegheist Revenants, but I think I like the Harridans a little bit better. I'll also probably be facing a Frost Pheonix regularly (we used to play WHFB and my one buddy has two of them from his former HE armies), so I'll need to know what to do against that. Thanks for any feedback!