dmorley21

I'm pretty sure units deployed in the underworld don't lower your drops. Am I reading that wrong?

I honestly think double battalions may still have a place in MSU style armies. They get you a command point. We know command points are really important for NH. They get you an additional artefact. Aetherquartz Brooch, Pendant of the Fell Wind, Wychlight Lantern, Midnight Tome - those are all really strong artifacts IMO that really upgrade our heroes. Command points are worth 50 pts and are important for our army. How many points would you say those artefacts are worth? I'd say at least 25 pts. So that's 75 points before you consider the special rules of the battalion or that it lowers your drops. Since many of us are into minimum sized units now, let's take a look at minimum battalions. Shroudguard - 410/460: 2 x 5 Bladegheists, MKoES/Reikenor - 16/17 wounds... 25.7/27 pts per wound... 3 chances for WoT Deathriders - 760: 1 Harrow, 2 x 5 Hexwraiths, 1 Black Coach - 37 wounds... 20.5 pts per wound... 4 chances for 9+ WoT The Condemned - 660: 1 Torment, 1 x 2 Chainghasts, 2 x 20 Chainrasps - 49 wounds... 13.5 pts per wound... 4 chances for WoT Chainguard - 580: 1 Guardian, 2 x 20 Chainrasps - 45 wounds... 12.9 pts per wound... 3 chances for WoT Execution Horde - 540: 1 Executioner, 3 x 3 Spirit Hosts - 32 wounds... 16.9 pts per wound... 4 chances for WoT Death Stalkers - 620: 1 Wraith, 2 x 10 Reapers, 2 x 4 Stalkers - 32 wounds... 19.4 pts per wound... 5 chances for WoT Shrieker Host - 520: 1 Tomb Banshee, 2 x 5 Harridans, 2 x 4 Myrmourns - 22 wounds... 23.7 pts per wound... 5 chances for WoT That's interesting. Deathriders remains the most expensive battalion, but Shroudguard is actually the worst bang for your buck for both wounds and WoT opportunities. Shrieker Host got cheaper but is still really expensive per wound. Obviously things change if you max some of the units, but it's interesting food for thought. I think there may be room for a double battalion MSU list. Or maybe I rely too much on command points and artefacts.

I tend to agree that Blades don't work that well in max sized units. It really takes away from their abilities, and they're expensive. If you want to run full sized units, I'd suggest trying Harridans instead. You're paying 40 less points so with three full sized units that's an extra 120 points. There's a lot you can do with those extra points. Then, if you look at the damage output, Harridans actually do better than Blades on turns when Blades don't charge and if the Blades don't have a nearby ST/Chainghast. With the new command ability to re-roll 1s, Harridans can be supported by characters other than Spirit Torments. And while everyone focuses on the fact that they need to face low bravery opponents for one of their abilities, I've always had a lot of success with their double damage ability. Helps to do a couple extra wounds.

Anyone catch the Nighthaunt faction reaction podcast today from The Honest Wargamer? Playing the army as an MSU type force was brought up a bit. I know some of you have done that as well. Curious to hear other thoughts.

Mannfred dropped to 380, which makes him a potential ally for 2000 pt games. He's got good speed and his command ability seems useful. What does everyone think about him?

I don't think a General's Handbook has ever changed a warscroll, so I wasn't hoping for that. We'll have to wait for a new book for that.

Thanks for pointing that out to me. Overall, it seems like anyone who wanted to run a Death Riders style list is winning the most from these changes. Also my days of running the Death Stalkers battalion with 60 Grimghast Reapers seem over. I figured the Reapers would go up, but hoped the Stalkers and Cairn Wraith would go down.

Can anyone make out the points for the battalions? It's too blurry for me.

I don't see either happening anytime soon, but I'd rather have a new book that rewrites some war scrolls instead of a piece of terrain. To me, Nightmare Lanterns and Black Coaches should be as close to terrain as the army gets due to the lore of the army. As for the new GHB, is anybody else hoping for battalion point drops? I think that could have a large impact.

I agree with this. It's really good in theory, however our army is command point starved. It's hard to give one away.

I always thought based on the background in the book that it made sense to eventually have two armies: Legion of Grief led by Lady Olynder as another Legion of Nagash and Nighthaunt as a force of destruction, allied with nobody. I'd rather see this happen and honestly might sell my stuff if we're just another legion of Nagash.

What does everyone think of the new contrast paints for Nighthaunt? As someone new to painting, I'm pretty excited.

I actually think Myrmourn Banshees will drop in price. I'd guess that Chainrasps, Spirit Hosts, Harrows, Spirit Torments, Reapers, Cairn Wraiths, Reikenor, and Bladegheists all stay the same. Reapers might go up to 180 for 10 so they match Bladegheists. Everything else I would expect to drop. I think if Reikenor/Kurdoss/Olynder were 160/180/200 it would make some sense. Stalkers need to be dropped to 40 for 4. Harridans 70 for 5 (same as Reapers now). Both KoS should drop 20 pts. Hexwraiths really need to drop to 120 before I'll consider them. I wouldn't take the endless spells ever... there's always other spells I would rather cast. I also think some battalions need to drop in price. Shriker Host has no battleline and requires 4 units and hero. There's no way it should be 140.

I'm honestly surprised Skaven haven't appeared in 40k.

So I've got a hobby question for you all. I've been using cotton on the bases of my models to attempt to create a "just emerged from the underworld fog." However, I found this to not be very practical for actual gaming. I've only played at my house so far with friends, but am hoping to be able to travel to gaming stores this summer to play against a larger variety of opponents. So, a few questions: Has anyone else gone for this effect? If so, any tips? I am in the process of magnetizing my models as I have found the cotton loves to stick to the old-school GW foam that I have... and also the models don't fit in my old carrying case.

Where is that stated? The ability doesn't specify you can't use it on successful charge rolls, and I don't see it in the charge section... pages 3 and 5 respectively via the app.

I've always played that you can only try it once. I just have the option to re-roll for multiple units.

So to clarify, the list I run is Death Stalkers/Chainguard and I posted a link to a PDF of my list. The list I wrote out isn't one I have used, but it placed 8th at a recent competitive event. The Wraith and Stalkers are tax of running the battalion. I find the Wraith is great... as he's rarely targeted so he's a great artefact holder. The Stalkers also aren't targeted ever, so they become somewhat versatile. With the recent general that FEC have, I can't imagine not taking Death Stalkers.

I'm not sure how competitive my current list is as I haven't played competitively yet - just locally. But I run a four drop list that looks like this: DeathStalkersChainguardList.pdf I love starting with 3 command points to fish for the WoT if I feel like it's needed and I love that it's 4 drops. Meanwhile, Ben Savva (a seemingly really good competitive player) took a Shrieker Host/Chainguard build to Masters. He had poor results playing against some of the best players of the game, but later tweeted that he thought it was still a competitive build, though I personally think Shrieker Host builds need some point drops. It's also worth noting his list came in at 1930, so he had 3 command points to start. As for the list that finished 8th at SAGT, it has one battalion but is 1850 points so it starts with four command points. That list was: Dreadblade Harrow (general) w/ Midnight Tome and General Trait "Cloaked in Shadow" Mounted Knight of Shrouds Cairn Wraith w/ Aetherquartz Brooch Vampire Lord (ally) 10 Chainrasp Horde 30 Grimghast Reapers 20 Grimghast Reapers 4 Glavewraith Stalkers 4 Glavewraith Stalkers 10 Bladegheist Revenants 12 Myrmourn Banshees Death Stalkers Chronomantic Cogs It's totals were: 1850 pts, 4 command points, 110 wounds, 7 drops. You can visit AoS Shorts for more information on that. My point is, that I really think Nighthaunt lists need to find a way to start with several command points in order to be successful.

I agree with all of this. I think players are starting to move toward builds that try to increase the amount of CPs, whether that's through buying them incrementally with low point lists, have battalions, using the aetherquartz brooch, and using Kurdoss or some combination of all of them; and I think that's the way to play Nighthaunt competitively. The list the placed top 10 at the recent Australian event was particularly interesting to me though I still think I like double battalion builds.

I use Cogs because I love to deep strike units. Rolling a 7" is so much better than a 9". I also start the game with 3 command points, so it allows me to fish for a Wave of Terror and not worry as much about failing the charge.

I haven't played against a Stardrake, but behemoths is something I really struggle with playing against. Myrmourns can be great and destroy behemoths if they get extra attacks and get off a Wave of Terror, but that's difficult to pull off consistently. I don't use Torments or Chainghasts when I run Blades, but in that case I use Blades the same way you would likely use Hexwraiths - to hunt down small heroes or units.

It looks like the game just comes with the standard Myrmourn Banshee models based on the picture.

I think people are taking the "for all players" out of context. At least I took it as meaning a preview for all game systems.

I haven't used it, but it does seem like it could be very useful. I remember it was mentioned on one of the Just Saying podcasts as being a good investment.