dmorley21

It’s funny because I was actually super down on Hexwraiths in 3.0. I was running a unit of 5 and a unit of 10 in Death Riders/Emerald Host for a hot sec and they were soooo good. Then 3.0 happened and I only ran 2 units of 2 as bodyguard and all they did was die. I’m interested to try them with a different mindset. This is good, but Nighthaunt don’t need a patch in casual games IMO. I find they do quite well against weaker lists or players that aren’t super competitive due to the combo of Fly/Ethereal/Movement Shenanigans.

That’s from 4chan.

I'm fairly plugged in to rumors, and I haven't seen anything like that. So don't get your hopes up. And there's been a handful of good results for Nighthaunt lately at different events. So that's been nice to see.

Fair, though this is the guy that was the first with how oppressive LRL Wind Spirits were going to be. Answered already, but also worth noting the guy that beat him finished first I believe.

Wow, a great weekend for Nighthaunt at tournaments. Bill Souza took his Hexwraith spam and Big Drogg list to a 5th place finish at Da Boyz GT. His only loss was game 1 against Jordan from Season of War and his Lumineth. Another player then went 5-0 at a 24 player event called Little Bo Peep GT. I haven't seen the 5-0 list, but there's pics of the games on Twitter and it looks like a MSU list running Olynder and Reikenor. You can find the pics on Twitter under the account "PissPoorGeneral".

Pretty much all of this. I run a blob of 30 Reapers with the Cruciator, Spirit Torment, and Guardian of Souls, and it has been an impossible unit for my opponents to chew through (well except for one silly charge of Thanquol... better off not talking about that). Units turn into hammers with Wave of Terror and you might be kind and call Kurdoss a mini-hammer, but really Big-Drogg is so common as an ally because he's the only true hammer Nighthaunt have access to at the moment.

It's a real list. The player, Bill Souza, takes very off-meta lists that seem underpowered to tournaments and proceeds to win the tournament regularly. In 3.0, he's done this with Flesh-Eater Courts and Hedonites of Slaanesh. As for your other questions, there are 3 named characters in Sons of Behemat that are mercenaries and are allowed to be allied into certain grand alliances. All Death factions are allowed to take Big-Drogg as their one and only ally. It's a similar mechanic to how Gotrek works.

Yep, meant to write that. Good catch. You might be on to something there.

The buffs are still pretty strong. If you all out attack them, they're hitting units with under 5 models on 3's while re-rolling 1's and then wounding on 2's. I do run them in Emerald Host as well, and almost always put the -1 save on some monster hero that they end up running into which in effect gives them -2 rend. Also, Bill Souza who is pretty much one of the best players in the world, is taking this list to a tournament in the U.S. call Da Boyz:

400 points is the rule for the type of matched play almost everyone plays - the General's Handbook is a slightly different ruleset than the one in the core book. However, Power in Numbers means that models can't claim objectives unless they are battleline, so allies wouldn't help you there. And honestly there is decent mobile chaff in the book between Aetherwings and Prosecutors; even the Farstriders or Gryph-hounds are cheap and mobile chaff.

So I've been running a block of 30 Reapers in my league play, typically supported by a Spirit Torment/Guardian of Souls/Krulghast though sometimes one of them runs off with my 10 Harridans. Then, I went to my first 2 day event and decided to run two blocks of 20 Reapers due to a battelplan that had objectives that could only be claimed by battleline units if another battleline unit was contesting it. And I ended up regretting my decision. Due to the fluidity of the game and need to unpack your army at different points, that second unit of Reapers was never in buff range and my units of 20 just didn't hold up or fight as hard as my unit of 30. So, the short of it is, really there's only so many models/units you can get into your buff range. This is due to terrain, your opponent's forces, objectives, and battle tactics. I personally prefer a big block of Grimghasts to a big block of Chainrasps as a 4+/5+ is a lot different than a 5+/5+. It makes them an absolute anvil that has enough reach to have some fight as well.

I think even more so than counters, it's hugely beneficial for battle tactics to have a difficult to kill monster. Gaining access to Monstrous Takeover as a battle tactic is huge. Getting an extra point here or there from achieving a battle tactic with a monster is huge as well as I have found that game scores tend to be close more often than not. Then there's what Big Drogg brings: the most wounds we can have in a unit, the highest rend we have access to, the most damage we have access to, an additional -1 bravery. I also still think there's a good list out there with him and a unit of 20 Harridans with buffs in place (Krulghast/Torment/Guardian... RotSPH and Black Coach and Emerald Lifeswarm if you have it). That combo would mean anything bravery 8 or less (hello Maw-Krushas and Stormdrake Guard) would be at -1 to hit. He could also stand behind two ranks of them and still probably get off his 3" attacks. If I had the model, I'd try it. I'd even look at buying it if it didn't look like all of a sudden we were getting a new book sometime soon with new models.

@EnixLHQ This happened a couple months ago (August) and we discussed it then IIRC. It was a 30 person event in Washington state. A more recent 4-1 list was run by Mathew Tyrrell in an online tournament in Australia. He's the one that has the Borderline Wargaming YouTube channel that features some Nighthaunt battle reports. A link to that list can be found below: TTT | Mathew Tyrrell - List (tabletop.to)

So I think I can file my first 2 day event as a tremendous learning experience and a lot of fun. I lost all of my games Saturday, and won both on Sunday. The two other Nighthaunt players managed to go 3-2 (one running the staple death start list and then Tyler Mengel running 3 Mournguls). Overall, I was left wishing I had one more unit more often than not. Mannfred was my MVP (quickly followed by Krulghast) and I never lost my grand strategy of Prized Sorcery (Mannfred stayed alive every game... I also had Olynder, a Guardian, and a Midnight Tome carrying Krulghast). My list was: Emerald Host Lady O (general / shademist) / Mannfred / Guardian of Souls (soul cage) / Spirit Torment (PotFW) / Krulghast (Midnight Tome / Reaping Scythe) 20 Reapers / 20 Reapers / 5 Hexwraiths / 5 Hexwraiths Mortalis Terminexus A short and sweet rundown: Game 1 was versus Hallowed Knights in Apex Predators. The list didn't have any of the new Stormcast in it - a lot of Sequitors and Evocators on Dracolines. I was given first turn and had a great first turn, getting off the Mortalis and Mannfred's Wind of Death for a lot of mortal wounds on his MSU units that were castled up. Controlled each objective with a unit of Reapers in the middle and Mannfred and Lady O on each flank. He only had two heroes and wasn't able to claim a single objective on turn 1. He got one on a Turn 2 and at that point it was 10-5. Then we messed up. I sent a single Hexwraith and my Guardian into his deployment zone for Savage Spearhead and he thought he could Unleash Hell from a movement instead of a charge and I didn't catch it, thinking I had just make a huge mistake. Didn't end up realizing our mistake until after the game. Losing that battle tactic was the beginning of the end for me as I couldn't stop his Evocators from tearing through my troops. I hadn't played against them before, and definitely underestimated them. I ended up losing by 1 pt for a minor loss (pack rules), but should have won the game had we remembered how Unleash Hell worked as he scored max points the rest of the game to get the 1 pt win. So that was frustrating on my part. Game 2 was versus an all Squig Gloomspite Gitz army in First Blood. I've never played against Squigs before, and was caught off-guard on a turn when they had all of their buffs up and some really good rolls. They bounced over my units and killed all of my heroes... and then I was toast. That was a learning game for me as it was an army I hadn't ever played against or really read up on as they're not that common or strong. Game 3 was against a Petrifex Elite Ossiarch player in Savage Gains. This was my worst loss. The list featured one bubble of 20 Mortek that was supported by a Harvester and Arkhan. I've never seen that type of castle before and thought a unit of 20 Reapers supported by the Spirit Torment / Guardian / Krulghast would be able to go in and just keep that unit locked in combat with similar casualties on both sides. Wow, I was wrong. With how many Mortek were healing from Arkhan and the Harvester plus some good shots from the catapult killing my Krulghast, that flank collapsed quickly. So then that block eventually made it into the middle and then I was doomed by a pincer. Game 4 was against Slaanesh on Power in Numbers. This won I ended up running away with as I was able to burn 3 objectives on turn 2, removed an objective on turn 3, and then burnt another one. This time a blob of 20 Grimghasts with their support system (Krulghast / Spirit Torment / Guardian) along with the Hexwraiths and Lady O were able to lock Gluttos, an allied Mega-Gargant, Sigvald, and a Keeper of Secrets in combat for several turns. This allowed Mannfred and my other unit of Reapers to play in my opponent's territory. Game 5 was against Ogors in Feral Foray. This was a close game that didn't finish, but I was able to raid two of his objectives while he still didn't have access to any of mine which allowed me to get far enough ahead on points. As I said, it was a lot of fun and a great learning experience. I do feel like I probably would have been fine doing a blob of 30 Reapers and a unit of 10 Harridans as I had been doing, but look forward to going to more events.

Yeah, I’ve been having some luck with a blob of 30 Reapers / Krulghast / Guardian / Spirit Torment. Had a funny game where they got into it with Yndrasta / Praetors / Annhilators and the two forces just exchanged blows the rest of the game as neither could punch through the other. I’m participating in an 80 person event (Michigan GT) tomorrow and switched to two blobs of 20 Reapers. We’ll see how it goes. There’s two other Nighthaunt lists too.

@Btimmy Bummed to hear you didn’t have fun. Nighthaunt, even at their best, are certainly a trading army where you focus on the scoring and objectives instead of raw damage. Definitely not the alpha strike force their lore makes them out to be. My hope is that a new book allows for both play styles.

Honestly, I think Cities of Sigmar makes a lot more sense than Stormcast to get the Space Marines treatment where different subfactions (cities) get different distinct books. I'm very interested to see what their next update looks like.

She had it temporarily available via a battalion in BR: Be’Lakor. That went away.

I tend to agree that Hexwraiths should get their Ward, and the TO thought the same until he noticed how similar the rule is to the Fyreslayer one that is specifically called out in the FAQ. There's differences, but it's my first 2 day event and I'm looking to have a good time and meet people - not ruffle any feathers. It is what it is, and doesn't really change my goal of going 2-3 and aspiration of going 3-2. I only run 2 units of 5 Hexes and they're literally just there as a wound pool for Olynder and to make my opponents think twice about going for Slay the Warlord, with the benefit of being fast enough to have utility if needed. Here's hoping for OIynder to get the Warsong Revenant / Yndrasta / Celestant Prime treatment and gain a 4+ ward (with an appropriate points increase) so that she can be used more freely without 300 points of bodyguard.

Sadly, not consensus. I’ve had opponents tell me both ways. I’m also going to the Michigan GT this upcoming weekend and had it ruled that my Hexwraiths don’t get a Ward.

So the issue here is that Bladegheists make for a poor main blob. They're too expensive, can only be taken in a unit of 20 max, and too inefficient in large groups. Any of Chainrasps, Grimghasts, or even Harridans or Spirit Hosts make for a better main blob. Typically, you'll want your Spirit Torment with your main blob, so that it can be bringing back models to that blob. This allows your main blob to act as an anvil. Obviously, it will also boost the hitting power of your main blob. Due to this and that taking a second Spirit Torment is often not in the cards, it may make sense to have a unit of Chainghasts to buddy up with a unit of 10 Bladegheists that are meant to threaten an area outside of your main blob.

Hey all. Just been thinking a bit about the next Nighthaunt book. Obviously, we don't know when this will be and it's all just speculation, but I think there's a few things we can maybe guess from recent releases: Aura of Dread may be buffed to be like Soulblight's Reanimated Horrors, where having more than one unit near the enemy results in -2 bravery. Myrmourn Banshees and Glaivwrath Stalkers may follow the lead of other small infantry units and become 2 wound models. Any of Lady Olynder, Kurdoss, and Reikenor may gain a Ward Save. We've seen this happen to several low wound but important heroes (Warsong Revenant, Celestant Prime, Yndrasta). Lady Olynder may gain Warmaster (but they've had opportunity to do this already, and have not). Going back to Yndrasta and how command abilities are getting removed from warscrolls, Lady Olynder's command ability may just become a generic ability. Spectral Summons may become one of several command abilities we can choose as an enhancement, and may become once per game. Different sub allegiances may unlock units as battleline. The army will probably have less army rules. We could see the army have two rules overall (Deathless Spirits / Aura of Dread) and then you can choose one army that gets Wave of Terror and From the Underworld They Come and one that is essentially Legion of Grief. This is how the Stormcast book is setup. Subfactions won't mandate certain command abilities. The army will get specific Grand Strategies and Battle Tactics that won't be better than the generic ones, but will provide more options. Both Knight of Shrouds will lose their command abilities. I would guess they might become generic abilities or they might get updated rules. Dreadblade Harrows will become a 2 model unit. There's been a movement to make units better represent what you get in the box, and that would likely mean Harrows become a unit instead of a single hero. If this happens, I'd have to imagine they become the Emerald Host style elite cavalry (but probably not that elite) while Hexwraiths, being the oldest model, get phased out with poor rules/points cost. With the disappearance of battalions, subfactions will provide one rule that battalions provided previously. Overall, while some of these may be reaches, they are all based on what we have seen from recent releases and not on things that I want to see. I'd be fine with some of these, and less fine with others. I do think it's a decent idea of what realistic updates we could expect to see. Do you agree that these seem realistic? And if so, do any stick out to you as being particularly game changing for us in a positive or negative way? Personally, I'd love to see a 300 point Lady O with a 4+ Ward and her command ability as just a generic ability to put her about the equal of Yndrasta. Meanwhile, I fear about how much dust my 15 Hexwraiths may collect in the future.

Small world! Yeah, I played against him three times this summer - twice in 2.0 and then once in 3.0. I found it to be a good matchup in 2.0, but in 3.0 it's a really tough one as the Megas are so difficult to shift for Nighthaunt. Battles tend to last a couple turns (as you're right about lining up defensively outside of taking a charge) and I'm never winning objectives those turns if I'm fighting on them. And most matches just don't have enough objectives to spread them thin. IIRC, the Gargant one-shot was due to a Wave of Terror roll on my unit of 30 Grimghast Reapers against the Gargant I had done -1 save to already with the Emerald Host ability. Reapers boosted with All Out Attack or Grief Stricken (on the target), a Spirit Torment, and a Guardian of Souls, can still do some work on single models. It's hitting on 3's, re-rolling 1's, and then wounding on 2's. Thanks to my Wave of Terror, I think I got close to 100 attacks in on him.

They pin you. You can’t get more than 3 inches to them and then you can’t charge them as they move out of charge range after you movement phase and before your charge phase. When there’s enough of them, they can effectively trap your army. So Sevireth isn’t really a problem IMO. Even playing a melee army (Nighthaunt), I don’t mind playing against him. But when there’s enough foxes that my army can’t do anything, then that’s a problem. Can’t get to objectives or do battle tactics. (I play Nighthaunt and Lumineth).