mmimzie
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Posts posted by mmimzie
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1 minute ago, DarrinTheOccult said:
Am I the only one upset about the constant equipment changing in Tzaangors warscroll? First you had to assemble some with shields and some with pair blades for max efficiency; next you only needed one shield so you had to remove shields; and now you may only use one of the two options for the whole unit. You cannot mix anymore 😵
it's the cost of progress
but think you get to roll play change every time they come out with a new book and change your models.-
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30 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:
This is indeed not really super powerfull. And for other guilds, 30 spells is really too hight. You have to aim to 20 (or less) for the pinks horrors which is usually around tunr 3 in heavy magic lists and fights... For me it is clear: I'm not counting on those Fate points at all.
27 minutes ago, BillyOcean said:Yeah, I'll likely only be summoning screamers or blues to help with objective play. Occasionally an exalted flamer if someone really needs to get shot.
I think it's strong enough the ignore battleshock artifact is quite nice and the bonus CP artifact is also great. SO it's a 4+ every turn more +1 to cast for daemons within 12, and your pink horrors are less afraid of thier biggest weakness. Right now just rolled my 9 destiny dice just to see and only got a single 1, and heck no 6s v.v what sad day. So that battleshock immunity can really matter in saving you cp which is more +1 to cast.
Outside of that it's the only place to make summoning worth something. 9 spells you get a LoC, he's abit chubby with 14 wounds on a 4+ its about 28 effective vs the blue horrors 24 effective wounds. The damage out put is quite abit higher than the blue horrors as well as the blues won't be in units of 20 and what be casting the +1 to hit buff on themselves they will only do a wound or 2 to a unit with a 4+ save. The LoC also brings his own -1 to hit aura for melee making him that much tankier. You'll get more out of a lord of change in that department. Where the blues are obviously better is they count as more models if they can get in range of a poorly defended objective.
So it makes your summoning a little faster as the first is on 9 meaning one less spell than our standard lowest, and more impactful as it gives you a more powerful piece for cheap.14 minutes ago, Sinfullyvannila said:I’ll give them a try when they come out. I think we were all expecting better.
Taurus and in certain lists, the Dirghorn(BoC); Darkfire Daemonrift and probably the Rupture are better options than what we get in it, however:
Simulacrum is basically a second Gaunt Summoner warscroll spell that can backfire on you. I dunno. The Purple Sun is really popular in our lists and I see the same problems with it, and it’s only more useful against Elite armies. If we use it we’ll though it should our damage pretty much anything other than a well placed Daemonrift.
The Tome I think is pretty good if you don’t want to deal with Blue Scribes. There are other sources of reroll casts, but reroll casts is REALLY good. At I think that we’re collectively underselling auto cast and unbind immunity on Snakeeyes. I think that now people in the know about Horrors are going to make a point to focus down the Pinks until we lose our Icon Bearer, diminishing the value of 1s on Battleshock for that.
Lots of people are dismissing the Sigil on first look, because its results are unpredictable and possibly can hurt us. But the timing of it is actually really easy to mitigate poor results.
Some things to note about the spells with drawbacks.
1) A LoC can just eat it
2) We still can attempt to dispel them with Pinks and Acolytes when they are wizards.
I think if you are running change host a lot of the endless spell options change abit as stuff like pendulum and purple sun coming out at the top of turn 1 running through large swofts of an opponents army is quite impactful.
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3 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:
What do we need in the army list to be able to play them (in addition to their cost of course)?
wizards with the right keywords. Gaut summoner on disc and the sorc lords can cast the StD varients. Tzaangor shaman on disc can do the BoC varients.
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7 minutes ago, Paniere said:
the wording is clear: Horrors are battleline if they contain no blues/brims. Also they cost 100 only if they contain no pinks
I don't have the book so don't know. Can only go off hearsay.
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10 minutes ago, Paniere said:
400 imo
I think it would be 300 but looking at it I think they'd lose the option to be battleline listening to the guerilla miniature's guy.
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9 minutes ago, Gwendar said:
While that's true, I would be losing the 1 drop, extra artifact for Aura of Mutability and the extra CP which will be greatly needed in this army. For now I think it will work just fine.. just have to see how some competitive builds are looking and what works and change accordingly.
Not to say there aren't other ways of going Flamer heavy of course, especially with the fact you could easily just run 1x12 + 1 Exalted, 30-60 Horrors and fill the rest with Wizards and Endless Spells... but being able to dictate going first with teleporting shooting is great to have. The utility of Changehost is present throughout the game; being able to go anywhere for 2 units is invaluable when only Seraphon come's close to that (in my opinion).Change host is definitely good. It just depends on the list and using what you have. Just change host is also restrictive as it can limit your number of mortal wizards for spells like gaze of fate.
The bridge though too can be used to Port units about and isn't as limited. With an LoC you can undispel it with impunity.
The daemon fire rift is also pretty great in our army if you are bringing ant greater daemon who can Auto unbind the thing before it has a chance to hurt your own army. Only concern is getting the wizard in range to cast the spell.
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11 minutes ago, Paniere said:
2070 points according to my rusty math. I think a unit of 20 horrors costs 400 points if there are 19 brimstones + 1 pink
Brims cost 80 for 10, blues cost 100 for 10, and pinks cost 200 for 10.
So the 10pink + 10 blue unit is 300pts
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1 minute ago, Hannibal said:
Hi,
just a short question: I read somewhere that Flamers can be battleline now. Which of the Covens offer that rule? Can this be combined with the Changehost Battalion?
Eternal flame congragatuon
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4 minutes ago, Gwendar said:
Keep in mind you're only teleporting 2 units per turn with that though.. not to say it can't be done without that as Flamers have a 27" Threat range, but any decent player will make sure the non-teleporting Flamer group will be out of range of anything important.
Yeah.. I've ordered the list I posted a page back but I'm totally in with making those 2 Horror units go up from 10 to 20. The problem I tend to face when building out that list is hitting the tax on Changehost while still keeping things relevant..it could be solved a bit by splitting the Flamers into units of 3 but teleporting 2 units a turn makes that detrimental to their damage.
However.. with 20 Pinks you're looking at ~23 damage against a 4+ on average with all the buffs you described, so just shooting them up the board could be worthwhile. I would want to put them on objectives for obvious reasons, but at the same time having them tie up their frontline while you blast it with Heroes\Flamers sitting on objectives instead could be great depending on the matchup. Those strategies only work against some of course 😉If your dropped change host you could just take the bridge endless spell. Then you aren't locked into change host and can still sling shot models up the table
..... Maybe I should do that.
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The list I'm looking at is guild of summoners with change host
Guild of summoners
LoC general + feather charm
Fate skimmer
Fluxmaster
Changecaster
Changecaster
10pinks +10blues
10 pink horrors
10 pink horrors
10 brimstones
Purple sun
Pendulum
Gravetide
Bale wind vortex
1990
Debating swapping grave tide for burning head for the reroll 1s aura as the Pink's.might be enough of a wall. Both do about the same damage otherwise.
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The list I'm looking at is guild of summoners with change host
Guild of summoners
LoC general + feather charm
Fate skimmer
Fluxmaster
Changecaster
Changecaster
10pinks +10blues
10 pink horrors
10 pink horrors
10 brimstones
Change host
Purple sun
Pendulum
Gravetide
Bale wind vortex
1990
Debating swapping grave tide for burning head for the reroll 1s aura as the Pink's.might be enough of a wall. Both do about the same damage otherwise.
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2 minutes ago, Magnus The Blue said:
The more I think about it, the more I think units of 20 pinks, in The Eternal Conflagration with change host battalion are just savage. With no support, if their spell goes off, they have 60 shots, 3+/4+/-1 and 100 wounds. So they are dealing nearly as much damage as 6 flamers and an exaulted but over 6 times the wounds (400 v 340 points)! Sure they are slow and short ranged but changecult solves that (mostly). Buff them.with a fate master and/or aura of mutability and things get really silly. Tasty
And once you start killing them they get more shots!
I agree but I'd make a unit of 10 Pinks and 10blues. Alittle more cost effective. Likely letting you take such units in change host and let those shots fly.
Less durable more damage it's a trade off.
2 minutes ago, Bence said:Hy! Maybe a silly question, but daemon heroes also gaining the buff from the locus? For example a changeling in the back of the enemy recieves the locus and can pukish misdirect an enemy for an extra - 1 to hit?
In melee from the locus yes unit can be affected by Thier own aura unless it says other.
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4 minutes ago, AverageBoss said:
All pinks must be killed first. So you will never remove blues/brims until all pinks are gone. So there is no way around it, unless you go for the alternative chance at a mortal wound rule.
Yeah just saw the full warscrolls are up.
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1 minute ago, Forrix said:
Same here....except 50 wounds of horrors cost $100 ($30 PH+ 2 boxes of blues and brimstones for $35) and involves 50 models (though nice and fast to paint).
Well technically you can Auto kill the blues and brings as you put them down to make it cheaper.
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15 minutes ago, Gwendar said:
I had to cancel my game today, so figured I would post up what I'm currently wracking my brain with since I have nothing to do for a bit.
I really liked the direction of the Flamer spam lists, but I'm stuck between wanting more magic and still keeping relevant shooting. However, f I wanted to run Summoners Guild in this manner, I would be looking at 600 points of Horrors for BL (or 2 and 1 Acolyte unit to save 100 points) and at that point I have a hard time fitting in any Endless Spells. I think Summoners Guild might actually be a good choice if not running a battalion so you don't have any tax to worry about and can simply load up on Wizards in order to generate those Fate Points as quickly as possible.
Anyway, for my take on Magic\Flamer Shooting (and no, WSB isn't updated... I just manually edit 😅Allegiance: Tzeentch
Host: The Eternal Conflagration
Leaders
Lord of Change (380)
- General
- Trait: Coruscating Flames (Forced trait, Daemons -1 to hit wholly within 12")
- Artefact: Aura of Mutability (+1 to wound to Daemons wholly within 9")
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
The Blue Scribes (120)
- Lore of Change: Tzeentch's Firestorm
Herald of Tzeentch (120)
- Artefact: Shroud of Warpflame (Forced artifact, 3+ W\MW reflection from melee)
- Lore of Change: Treason of Tzeentch
Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
6 x Flamers of Tzeentch (240)
6 x Flamers of Tzeentch (240)
Units
1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (100)
1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (100)
Battalions
Changehost (180)
Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Umbral Spellportal (70)
Balewind Vortex (40)
Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 761 Drop. Scribes for RR's or getting off Firestorm easily through the Portal while the Herald goes on BW. I initially had thoughts of a Changeling over the Herald (where I would Swap the BW out for a Pendulum) but wasn't 100% if I liked that as much.. the issue would mean the LoC would be forced to take give up Aura as the Changeling and Scribes are both unique. With the 2 teleports and high likelihood of choosing who goes first, you have a lot of options here.
You could:- Teleport a Flamer + Exalted unit up to potentially wipe a unit (even without the +1 wound buff or RR 1's from CA you're still looking at ~18 damage on average against 4+)
- Teleport the Pink units to immediately grab objectives and\or throw out shots. Remember, Conflagration also gives the Horrors +1 rend so if they get their spell off you could be looking at 60 shots doing ~10 damage on average against 4+.
- Teleport the Herald up the field, BW and then throw out 2 decent spells.. this gives you option to include something else to support him.
Or any combination of course.. but overall, yeah I really like it. Later I might write up something for Summoners Guild.. but I think it really has legs if you want completely magic dominant list. Anyway, curious to hear any thoughts.. this could definitely be tweaked I'm sure.
ghetto commet/warplightning/chain lightning Fatekimmer (herald of chariot) with his new spell on a bale wind. HIs range gets buffed from 9" to 15" and in the book he rolls for 3+s letting him teleprot up and throw down an area hurt. For summoning points i also like the vortex because it gives you back a spell. With it's own built in auto unbind you can unbind and recast every turn for another fate point.
An important note for summoners guild is that it has that artifact that lets you ignore battleshock for units in range. battle shock is a big weakness to horror as you might have 50 wounds but it's waaay easy to get that pink unit to take like 40 models worth of death and die later to battle shock. Which you'd have to be gamie about the artifacts placement if you have any ones in your bank ready to use on your pinks you'd want to use those instead.
Edit: also damage wise if you wanted to pump number with horrors pinks are more effcient. as it's 20 shots for 100 rather than 30 for 200. This mean you could take a unit of 10pinks with 10 blues. for a total of 50 attacks and they get the +1 to hit for being a bigger squad. Meaning you get to 3's to hit. moves the need on damage abit more, but reduces durability sort of. -
6 hours ago, Paniere said:
Would be lovely but LoC can not teleport via changehost
You break my heart. But thanks for clarifying. I guess he's just an enabler not a doer.
Either way I think I'm still more on the LoC and make it more of a choice between the two of them. LoC let's you do fancy stuff and army buff. Kairos gives you +1 destiny die and +1 spell cast.
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8 hours ago, Sinfullyvannila said:
I don’t mind that LoC only has 2 casts. I’m probably only going to summon him in guild of Summoners, and pay the points for Kairos.
Kairos is abit better now but only in that now his damage table is flat 6 bringing him to where infernal gateway is.
That said i give it to the LoC if for no other reason that a bonus -1 to hit from feather charm (getting to -2 to hit in melee?? -1 to shooting) or other artifacts like eternal amulets, his command ability being a summoning and damage force multiplyer, and his ability to fit into the good Battalions.
Infernal gate way off the pop is average 6 mortal wounds that's pretty beefy.
This combines to a model that can teleport up close turn 1 throw out 6 mortals to break an important enemy hero, and then lay a pendulum down the vitals of an enemy army or a purple sun (which is more likely as it sure up some of our anti horde power).
Also Kairos lost the thing that had him taken before. His oracle no longer works on fold reality. It's not just 1 free 1 or 6 destiny die which was big with enlightend. I don't think he's bad, but i saying more recognize he's goals are to be a buffed caster with psuedo +1 to cast and who bring +1 destiny die to the game. He'll definitly want spell portal.
Personally i prefer the LoC he can do more and be a start in more ways, From being only summoned which make them alittle slow as they won't start doing stuff til lthe next turn, as force multipliers to your casting army, or as power house sneaky rogue assassin pieces. -
14 minutes ago, Gwendar said:
It's a self-buff really, that's it. They can't cast anything else (even Mystic Shield or Arcane Bolt).. but yeah, all Horror units can cast it even if other's cast it previously.
what kind of buff like a damage buff? +1 to hit? rend?
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also i couldn't make it out but it looked like pinks also have a spell on thier scroll they might able to spam.
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@Gwendar just so you know the lore is each horror splits into two. Pink splitting into 2 Blues each modeled individually as they enough to count as one model though only just. The brims also split into two, but the two brims are modeled together on the same base.
I'm the faction focus they said Pink's still split into two blues, and so I'd assume each blue then split into one brimbase (containing two little flames).
As for how they separate them. From what I could see on the war scrolls. The pinks have a 6+ extra save against mortal wounds and regular wounds ontop of the 6+ save. While brims and blues only get the 6+ save.
I think Pink's are great battle line options but if you want spell density in your list acolyte's are better, while Pink's are VERY tanky being 50 wounds at 200 pts that more staying power than clan rats Becoming more durable -1 to hit.
This all said battleshock is real as each dead model will count against battle shock for the Pinks. So destiny dice rolls of one will be HUGE.
I think the book is great. DoT needed very little and all the changes just make the books feel great
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12 minutes ago, Gwendar said:
Been considering Tzeentch but wanted to get the scrolls and tome in my hands to analyze stuff before settling... but oh man, I really think what you're proposing with the Changehost + Guild is wonderful. Luckily the Horrors are simple to paint. I could easily see a list running at least 3x20 Horrors (or MSU's of 10) and filling the remainder with with have you. Maybe Flamers, Screamers and heros?
Loving it so far.I'm thinking you'll want to max out your change host loading up in horror hero's is the way to go to make room for endless spells which you'll need to increase the LoC usefulness.
Flamers and screamers can also be used to make way for endless spells.
Only change host downside is your really pressing yourself to get 9 spells out a turn. While you'll have +2-4 on everything a few fella and you'll fall short of 9 spells in your first hero phase.
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26 minutes ago, AverageBoss said:
Ya. Screamers still completely lack a role. And I still think the LoC is far too expensive for the modern game state. But all 3 Flamers look to be much better (still waiting on a way to buy exalteds on their own though, without having to but the whole chariot) in addition to the KAs.
honestly i'm pretty on the lord of change, but if you want just run guild of summoners and summon 2 for nothing.
LoC has always been great in the army and can really boost your spell out put. With better change host just letting you teleport units you are in pretty good shape. But now he just eats endless spells where ever during your hero phase with no cost to your spell out put. This means you can play endless spells with impunity.
Honestly thinking of figure out a 3 LoC list with 1 on the table and getting 2 more with guild of summoners. Then maybe mixing in some more endless spells where possible
Edit: this in change host seems pretty cool as they can teleport where ever for free, set up endless spell that you can immediately or later pick up with your lord of change(s).
You'll have a better buffs from your lord of change in guild of summoners as well as every turn on a 4+ you get more CP meaning you could get up to +3 to cast on your pinks. With each pink squad being effectively 50 wounds it actually an insanely durable list depending on how much of what you end up beable to fit in. -
Slaves are all buff dependent for sure. The reroll save being a free spell helps a lot.
I think as @Rors says you can take the shrine/sorc combo to make sure you get the buff you need. It's redundant if you get one off, but you just need it to start punching at a good level.
I think alternatively you can take cabalist. Getting the bonus to cast is enough to make your spells reliable, and you only need to get a few of the peaces working to win a game as the slaves spell lore is so powerful.
I think knights are good with lances and buffs. The 4+ rerolling save is pretty good, that can either go nurgle for more durability or slannesh for more punch. You can easily fit 2 5 man squads into the army so if you do with the shrine/sorc you could buff 2 seperate units.
I think on the topic of cav MSU marauders horsemen with darkoath warqueen support in ruinbringers is no joke. While the gorebeast chariot can potentialy hit hard its surface area and points increase don't get you very far. However the horsemen bring shooting attacks, access to similar movement buffs, and lots of wounds to the table. Charging 6 horses into various targets after lauching those 60 tickle attacks addes up really fast. It also doesn't even need any particular buff as the warqueen just lets you boost the range of the charging power. Also it's very easy to get 6 horsemen units to connect with most other units. -
30 minutes ago, Malakithe said:
The ability to slap down an emergency 50 wound unit cant be overlooked. But at 260pts DiscGaunt isnt cheap and he doesnt have the Arcanite keyword which could be an issue for abilities, spells, and battalions. Maybe they will give him the keyword later but his warscroll was updated so recently so maybe not.
This has never held him back before.
260 is rather cheap when you consider he starts as a 2 spell wizard with a free range bonus trick, and later is a 3 spell wizard, and flocks in at about 56 wounds that can split appart and do separate things.
Plus he has the daemon keyword in slaves to darkness getting him -2 to be hit with look out sir and locus
He ain't cheap for sure, but I think a one of is going to be a strong take in about any list.
On another note with feather charm the LoC with locus should be at -2 to hit as well.
Honestly I'm mostly excited to summon multiple LoCs.
AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion
in Chaos
Posted
There are no standard rules for summoning and if they can move. Each rule is it's own thing.
This ability happens at the start of the hero phase.