mmimzie

I drilled a hole up their butt and put the plastic peg up there after clipping it alittle. Worked amazingly

I watched a few games with seraphim against thrall and the id player had no chance. With arcs of sorc clocking in a bunch of free damage, and basicly ignoring the thralls lack of surface area and damage. While slanns safely summoned all game. With out speed to threaten the slanns he hardly even had to screen, and damage falling limply against stuff ignoring the thralls rend they were just terrible. While my own experience getting blended by daughters I'm alot of levels over thralls or stremptijng to do anything with them where I care about their damage out put as it's rather low. On the super buff thing you really only need like a 3 or 6 man morrsarr squad getting +5 or more attacks as that makes those 3 more powerful than 9 morrsarr all hitting a nice small area allowing you to blow through most important targets. Or doing g similar with a turtle. I'm till waiting to be convinced by thralls imo. Currently my list is at: King geneeal Tide caster Tidecaster Tidecaster Soulscryer Royal court 9x ishlaen 3xmorrsar 3xmorrsar Turtle Cogs Geminids

That or a generic king. I find the generic king easier to protect than vulturnous.

I'd have to agree with @Caladancid block of 30 seem wiser. One because they matter more longer, but also because they need to kill 30 models to the man as they know for sure if morale get to high you will either use the moral artifact or the command ability.

It depends on who you ask. Most seems in camp eels. But like @DantePQ says he has been have some success in side games with his competitive friends. Both ha e their pros and cons. I thi k with summoning being what is is. The alpha list is almost mandatory. You just dont have time to poke around with thralls when your opponent could be summoning like 500-800pts of free stuff. The real problem thrall armies will be serapphon, tzneetch, and death. 2 of which eels o think can just shut down. The high speed and damage from morrsarr or even ishlaen let's you break the required summoner'd back. Tzneetch will require you to ha e so much control over the table there is no where to set models down. Which is significantly harder.

So for the aspect of the sea and the aspect of the storm I'm gonna put those two in the same boat as the turtle. I think this put the units into prospect. The point of these units is on the buffs and debuffs they provide. The power they bring from melee is considerably lacking. Looking at the melee beat stick aspect of the sea its damage out put and wound count are basicly morrsarr guard. You are paying 260pts for +1 save. That to me isn't good enough. However if he is providing reroll 1s to multiple unit then he starts to see alittle value. He wouldn't be too bad in a vulturnous list as a second unit buffed by a king. He's not very good when buffed as he has few profiles to benefit when compared to his cost. Aspect of the sea similarly does comparable damage if you have him use his damage spell. He is about the -1 to hit. Alone he can give 1 unit -2 to hit and more so with the artifact that let's you extend duration you can start stacking up or -1. I pair them with morrsarr guard who dont scale off army buffs, but would love enemy attacking them with multiple -1 to hit. The turtle again similar damage output as storm and brings cover. Pairs well with ishlaen from the book. That +1 save is great when you can take it away, and the turtle scale well getting the buffs from the king on turn 3. +5 jaw attacks is pretty good.

More so to your point i would say it also flys in the face of the faction focus they released right??? https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/06/09/9th-june-faction-focus-idoneth-deepkingw-homepage-post-3/ were they talk about the kings command abiltiy only working turn 3., and even show his lord of tides ability as it is in the book

The way i read it the tides of death preempts the normal fighting order. Than you fall back to the normal fighting order. however there are lines in the high tides rule that confuses this some for sure. Edit actualy it's clear you" fight with eligible ID units then resolve fights with any other units." Thde only high tide eligible units are the ones that you high tided. SO then you fall back on normal turn order.

So i broke down and bought the app to see what some of the battalions do... those have also been updated... royal court is waaaaay better. IF you have a king you can pick one unit, if there is a tide caster near him you can pick another, and if a soul scryer is near you can pick yet another. Each chosen unit gets +6"move No need for any of the units in the battalion to be general. That's basicly the auto +6" run command ability but better, and definitly removes the need for twitching tides to get turn 1 charges from out deployment. Royal Court deepkin are FAST. With the soulscryer thats 3 units with basicly +9" to thier effective movement for the turn if you add the charge. With morrsarr moving 20" with a +3" charge. The others didn't change also says updated june 2018. Edit: without a casting value on that and bringing it's own CP to use itself atleast once thats better than the cogs for sure Since you also can get that soulscryer boost in there or versatility to not keep him on the table to sneak stuff on the board. The list i'm thinking with these rules: Ionrach for casting bonus (????) Tidecaster General Cloud of Midnight Tidecasters W/ Coral ring Tidecaster King Soulscryer Royal Court (with the king, Soulscryer, and 2xtide casters in it) 6xmorrsarr 6xmorrsarr 10xreavers 10xreavers 10xreavers Umbral Spell Portal Geminids of Uhl-gysh +1 Command pt.

also on the bottum it says updated june 2018 so they were very recently poked at maybe?? I'd play it from the app, but i wouldn't recommend any one buy anything or sell anything based on it for a week or two.

Teh tide caster now has a new command ability as well. Doesn't have to be general either lets you adjust tide up or down 1 at the start of any battle round. For eel list this lets you get 2 turns of cover pretty easily. Wish i had the book on my app to see if any of the battalions have changed as well. ALSO WTF lol the ishlaen lost ignore rend in favor of a 6+ wound shrug. Lol very interesting developments today.

The command ability of the kings have been changed as well from +1 attack to make the target unit or units (base king 1 unit culternous 3) act like high tide for the turn. Which is cool becuase if you charge turn 1 with 2 units of like 9 morrsarr. You can use a regular king to give one high tide and then use the other one as your first option to attack. Then even if you went firsti n the battle round you can still get cover. it also doesn't remove the run and charge from the turn to ability becuase it only gives you high tide for the combat phase. However it does remove the option for the powerful turn 3 opressive +5 attacks thing. ALso i don't think he has to be your general.

Well so maybe the cogs are countered quickly by an oppent deploying back 3" taking you outside of an average 7" charge range. The Fuethan has a nice base long range and a lower investment, but sorta sucks becuase it takes alot of your turn 3 thunder away. Plus 1 cp onyl boost 1 unit ~3" depending on your run roll. I personally really like the royal court. It affects 3 units with +3 moves and your whole army with +3" charge for 1 CP that it brings with it. If you Use your TP for the turn or more from what you buy you can make the charge and range longer. Half tempted to run the 2nd soul scryer the 2nd 2-3" charge range bonus is good, that said it's really only a something like a 2" difference as you still ahve to be within 12". You have those stronger rituals, and in match ups where you don't have to be affraid of your soul scryer getting sniped turn 1, you can deploy the 2nd one off the table to claim an objective later in the game.

Scryer is royal court or bust. I dont like trying to sneak him onto the table. The angles can be really bad or pointless. However royal court with morrsarr you just deploy the guy on the table and charge across the board. That said the cogs exist and can do similar Cogs are 160pts (tidecaster and cogs. Can maybe be cheaper with allies) for +2 move and +2 to charge range. With morrsarr guard or ishlaen guard that's a 16" move meaning against stuff on the line that's a 8" charge for a net 6" charge with the cog bonus. Note that the cogs have to be cast making them vulnerable to both unwinding and just out right failing to cast. Another downside the margins on this are super narrow as your opponent need only deploy 2 or 3" back to make the charge fairly unlikely. The tidecaster also has to live to cast the cogs and might be vulnerable to being sniped by spells. Royal court is 240prs more than you'd normally take. It gives you the 1 CP you need to use the command ability which is +3" move, and you also get +" charge from the soul scryer (who has a range of 30+D6" on his point ability after his normal move + run). That's a 17" move for a 7" charge against targets on the line, or a net charge of 4" with the soul scryer bonus. If compared to above that's 2" extra, but with royal court you could use the +3" move twice with your first turn command or. Giving you at least a 7" charge on targets at least 30" a way from your starting line. You can further this turn q charge range by buying more cp which you might want to buff the king up anyway. The biggest downside is that this all falls apart if the soul scryer is killed turn 1 (most likely by magic) a second soul scryer in ionrach let's you extend this range a tiny bit, but also can give you some job security on the command ability. Fuethan+tidecaster general gives you another alpha option with morrsarr and/or ishlean they can run and charge. With the new command ability this can be forced to 6. Giving you a charge range of 4" from your opponents line. Nother need to stay alive. Which is pretty good. However 1 cp only boost one unit. Also you lose the power of the kings command ability on turn 3. You also lose access to other enclaves. Edit note on my points costs: I excluded the tidecaster and king in the royal court math as likely you are bringing these in your list already. If you aren't than covs are just better. The cog price does include the tidecaster as one of your wizards have to give up a spell slot to drop the cogs. As our army can use most of not all of their spell turn one via steed of tides and good spell choice this is abit of an opportunity cost for bringing covs.

I mean I dont even think gw would argue it's a pretty bad mistake. That said mistakes do happen. So you make the best of a bad deal.

*depression* Lol oh well i guess maybe that means ican still make excuses for bringing the turtle in my army.

Steed of tides gets you up the table in one spell 9" a way from enemy units with a 15" aura from 6" range bonus and 9" bonus on the cover spell. Not to mention the base of the balewind vortex becomes your new base. Your aura is quite a lot larger than that of the turtle. This is why I dont like thralls. Your just play their game and your doing it badly as other airs can do it just plane better than you. The morrsarr and ishlaen list have the spell and alpha strike punch to neuter these armies before they get rolling. Death dies of you punch a few units hard enough and block grave sites. Seraphim want to keep a bunch of frogs alive for 3 turns to start making positive pts value. Which gives you two turns to kill said frogs. Slannesh I dont know slannesh to be honest. I have looked into it or followed it at all. From what I know of their faction focus they looked pretty men, but I dont know the value of their excess pts. Nor do I know exactly what units in yhier list you have to take out to stop their summoning.

Competitively I think the one thing we can say for sure in that the balewind is good for us. It's cheap and we have two strong spells that work very well off the bonus range. Both vorpal maelstrom and the cover save get really great buffs when used along side the vortex. It also gives us a bit of a defense against endless spells should they matter in the meta. Lastly with steed of tide the valewind+ caster combo being one model means we can keep that combo mobile if needed. From there we have a debate of morrsarr vs thralls. Which has been going on since the release of the deepkin book. Thralls are all about horniness and regaining. Being high model count means when you are on an objective its easier to control. Morphan in my opinion is the only way to do thralls. Morrsarr hit hard and fast having lots of of alpha strike options. Taking important deants out of the enemy lines. They also combo well with roaming the king command ability of turn 3. As of right now I see two ways to use morrsarr. The first way is to hit hard turn 1, retreat turn 2, and hope to get another good charge in turn 3 with king buffs. Or with ishlaen holding the table a bit, then with a soul scryer bring in a big 9-12 morrsarr guard unit and a king turn 2. Pop cloud of midnight during enemy turn 2. Then have the king Chung as many CP as you could muster to buff your 9-12 man morrsarr guard unit with +4-6 attacks, charge in and delete the enemy army. Ishlaen are still good but are a bit weaker now. With out mystic shield getting a 2+ is possible. Meaning you can at best get a 3+ with cover and either reroll 1s with mystic shield or full refill from sisters of the thorn. The latter having an added benefit of allowing you to do bounce back mortal wounds. The list I'm going for will be 12 ishlaen and 2x6 morrsarr guard back with royal court, and sisters of the thorn. Turn 1 charge with ishlaen and shield of thorns to do reflect damage and lock up a good chunk of the enemy army. While the 2x6 morrsarr guard units work from one side of the table chewing up units that have been cut off by the ishlaen. Its alittle vulnerable to mortal wounds but the tide casters and ionrach enclave seek to counter that. Which gives access to good unbinds and reliable-1 to hit against some to hit based mortal wound units. Edit: also both eels and thralls have about the same vulnerability to mortal wounds. With the max unit size discount for thralls vs eels having 2 more wounds for the base price. Both armies will have about the same wounds. That said for them to be even thralls bust be taken in blocks of 30nothereise thralls ar rather weak to mortal wounds.

I don't like fuethan. So I agree with not going the route. Cloud of midnight would be my go to in the king. Not entirely sure you need cogs. Effectively royal courts is a better and worse cogs. For one royal court gives you a bonus cp so you start your first turn with 2 cp. So you can use the royal court command ability twice. Giving you +6" to your morrsarr move. That with the scryer +3" charge you should have 3 units in combat turn 1 no problem. If you ran ionrach you could run a second scryer or tidecaster as needed. These back up tidecasters and scryer have a good job in helping the ritual and in make sure you can actually use the royal court command ability. I don't like the allopex. You could drop it and a unit of ishlaen to have 2 units of 9 morrsarr. Rush those two up turn 1. And give +3 move to 2 of your soul scryer to make sure they are in range to provide the charge bonus. Edit: also I believe royal court is 100pts in 2.0

If summoning is going to be a thing. I think it will depend on faction bonuses to aid it and as you say garenteed summoning. FEC could very easily get an alliengce ability where thier models can just walk on from the tabl edge using reinforcement points but it has to be FEC alliegance units. Would be thematic. Death mages could get double summoning and maybe a command trait for quaduple summoning so they coule set up full power horde units. With spells that let them buff and move said newly summoned units. Khorne could get something similar to blood tithe points where dead units give you tokens that let you summon stuff. Tzneech right now is in a great spot summoning wize as every hero is a strong wizard and summon can cast multiple spells. They also have a large selection of models that can be summoned, and once summoned usually have a shooting attack or spell they can use. Destiny points make summoninf stuff like a lord of change realistic for any caster. So i think we are on the way. We just need the faction bonuses to get there.

FAQ says you throw out all other coniditions in a battle plan. So the victory conditions for the matched play scenarios ignore the core rule victory conditions.

Eh i dont like opening up to many generic battle line options. You only need 3 so the restriction is quite small already. I like it rewarding sticking to a theme. Opening this up to much would just make chaos and order even crazier.

3. Could easily be fixed on a per warscroll bases. They could do it like they fixed bale wind. Update thier war scroll and your done. Either add "these can ignore the rules of 1 for arcane bolt" Or don't make it a spell and instead make it an ability they use in the hero phase.

Most importantly to me. I think the game the way it is right now is really great, and simply needs abit of a rules polish than any real changes. Base to Base should be a thing. Offer standard match play base sizes next to each profile. Make a GW basing kit. It'd be like printing money to be honest. add more battle plan. Maybe enough so you can roll d6/d6 for them like mission 1-1 or mission 4-3 what have you. Everything blow is take it or leave The only change would be to make shooting suck a bit when you get em in combat. I say if they ahve something within 3" they can only shoot that target. Drop a big book of allegiances and battalions. IF they just drop a bunch fo simple not ridiculous battalions and allegiances would be pretty sick and go a long way to making the game feel complete.

Auto doesn't make them here in the events it throws them in the USA international subsection