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Ignore this Vandus nonsence. This list will be stomped by practicaly anything, no extra CP to stack Vandus CA, no Save buffs, only 2 heroes with 3+ save. There is not that many missions where you will get the chance to counter charge objective wise, usually it will be mid table fight over objectives and you are not winning those with 4+ saves. If you are willing to give up staunch defender - just go celestial vindicators, same +1 attack, just unstackable, but gives you rerolls on the charge, better trait and weapon (then HoS) And you really should not consider bringing dracoth lords on this point format, except if you know that you will have to fight for the objective with him, therefore you MUST have staunch defender and some protective item. This is my 1k list changed to field retributors Will work with Celestial Vindicators as well, I have never felt lacking instruments to win with this type of list Allegiance: Stormcast EternalsMortal Realm: AqshyLeadersLord-Castellant (100)- General- Trait: Staunch Defender - Artefact: Obsidian Amulet Lord-Relictor (100)- Prayer: TranslocationKnight-Heraldor (100)Battleline10 x Liberators (200)- Warhammer & Shield- 2x Grandhammers5 x Judicators (160)- Skybolt Bows- 1x Shockbolt BowsUnits3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (100)- 1x Stormsurge Tridents5 x Retributors (220)Total: 980 / 1000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 200Wounds: 67

Retributors and Prosecutor - feeling you, they have been my first love in AoS, have 15 of ones and 24 of the others Celestant - remember, he must be in combat himself to pop his CA Lantern healing - correct, gets better with Staunch Defender and cover, gets worse from rend For relictor's prayer I'd reccomend 2 choices - Divine Light (choose any unit, goes on 3+, gives reroll 1s to hit against enemy unit or 6s agains yours) for defence, Bless Weapons (unmod 6 - additional wound roll) for offence (I belive that due to wordings won't do anything for retributors) Other: Azyros, finally buffed to being usefull and become AMAZING, give reroll hit rolls of 1 against enemy units within 10" on both shooting and melee all phases (will do wonders to sequitors) and once per game can dish out AOE MWs; Vexilor - reroll charges and rus bubble, can throw comet (blast of D3 MWs with 2d6" radius at I dont remember what range smtg about 24") or teleporting friendly unit from one point to another (9" away) both effects are once per game and you only get one of those on each Vex; Incantor - solid wizard, amaizing auto dispell ability, situational but VERY devastating self explosion gear (like Arcanum's) I find decimators absolutely incredible, but rarely have place for them in my lists, but they are terrifying to 1w low save hordes. Protectors are solid on paper, rarelly use them, maybe I've been unlucky - but they never fulfilled their role of monster hunters in my games. For paladins star soul maces are great, most of the time my decimators have been able to deal with hordes with just 3 axes and then go pulverise anything tanky with maces Celestial Vindicators have rerolls of 1s to hit when charging, CA +1 attack on unit, not stackable (basicly best damage amplyfier for retributors), compulsory command trait: +1 damage on hit roll of 6 (or something like that), compulsory artefact of power: in the combat phase you can choose to lower your save by 1 to get 2 attacks. A note on liberators and sequitors: Since vanguard wing is not a thing anymore (almost) and celestant's CA is when he is in combat only you can run libs with swords and be dandy. Swords on sequitors are better than maces mathematically and gap increases with buffs.

Everything changed dramatically with the new battletome, battalions are almost irrelivant at this point. If you dig swords and retributors - you are welcome in chambers of Celestial Vindicators stormhost, those guys are true fanatics, chanting prayers and warsongs in battle to guide their hatered for chaos. Also have decent rules, not max competetive though and amazing color scheme. Now units, retributors always been overpriced and they also being completely outperformed by Evocators (but since last ones can wield swords you are still be going with Vindicators theme) and robbed of synergies with Bless Weapons prayer and Celestant's CA. Prosecutors really beg for discount, we pay a lot for their outstanding mobility that they don't really have much to do with, at best you can utilise them to tie enemy shooters for a turn or mess with opponents pile in by charging them in far end of enemy unit whille your heavy hitters do their thing from the front. Liberators are solid, always been that way, but hit like wet noodles, upgraded double weapon rule won't help an ounce and it's really painfull when you take lots of casualties on big unit and then some run away, these guys are just your battleline, that could be used as an anvil. Everything else you mentioned is solid and already have been commented accuratly. For heroes you always want your gentelmen's set: Lords: Celestant on foot, mounted on dracoth, Castellant, Relictor, Arcanum on gryph charger (on foot if you want minimum points spent to have seq in battleline, on dracoline if you run dracolines (though he perform good on its own) on taularon cuz cool model and his possibilities are yet to be explored) Knights: Azyros, Vexilor, Heraldor, Incantor

That would be solid for 1000-1250 pts games, but not really enough for 2000 as you will lack units to summon, if you decide to play FEC - get one Start Collecting and one Skirmish box (don't recall it's proper name, but thats 20 ghouls and 3 horrors/flayers) also second Varghulf would be nice to get. And you can also play with mixed Death and therefore include all the stuff you own/like and even get some synergies from it (like +1 attack from Vampire Lord's CA)

FAQed

If not considering scion slots and drops in total, will 2 units of 3 work less efficient than 1 unit of 6? I belive it's going to be more flexible, whille able to achive same goals as 1 unit, and also it will have back up in form of having 2 attempts to charge and it will less likely to lose unit by bravery if you take 2 casualties in 2 units, than taking 4 in 1

Feels like another Surecharge gimmick. Have to point out that it is auto lose on any "heroes score" mission, as well as total commitment, won't play this at tournament unless there is no such missions (need to say that my local meta influinces my view heavily) But it also can hard-counter hero dependant armies I guess You should definitely try this and tell us how it plays

Yeah, for fun it will work. Liberators really don't worth wasting everything that can make this list good for stupid surecharge, because they will hit like pillows. Getting crossbows packed in big unit means troubles if they get charged, so probably will take shield libs to protect them with a little more chances to fight back due to battalion. Honestly I'd go with bows here, don't waste Scion slots, bigger threat range, less likely to get into combat ect. More than 3 melee prosecutors are never worth considering unless you just want to run something really silly, 3 will manage backfield harrassing just fine and don't need Gavriel with tambourine to be placed well after reserve charge and you'll be better spending those points that you are willing to spend on bigger prosecutor unit on relictor or ballista. The only good thing I can say about VW now is that buff range is not a problem at all, I easily managed to fit 30 semi-spread out libs into bubble from 6 prosecutors, so getting anything 20 models or less will be easy as pie, even with 3 man unit of prosecutors. At it's current state I see vanguard wing as collection of solid units that will find their place in any match-up (even our overcosted wing boys)

Hello fellow kings, I finally decided to build my FEC army and I'm going all in with it - will go for 2000 tournament this weekend (one day, 3 games) here is my list Allegiance: Flesh Eater Courts- Delusion: Crusading ArmyMortal Realm: UlguLeadersAbhorrant Ghoul King on Zombie Dragon (440)- General- Trait: Magestic Horror - Artefact: Doppelganger Cloak Abhorrant Ghoul King on Terrorgheist (400)- Artefact: The Flayed Pennant Crypt Ghast Courtier (80)Crypt Ghast Courtier (80)Battleline20 x Crypt Ghouls (200)20 x Crypt Ghouls (200)10 x Crypt Ghouls (100)Units6 x Crypt Horrors (320)BattalionsGhoul Patrol (180)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 114 I'm open to suggestions on artefacts and need some advice on what to build for GKoT summoning (Flayers might be better than horrors I guess?) For GKoZD I have 2 Varghulfs so no problem here. I also would like some advise on playing this list (and FEC in general) correctly, I can also drop here what missions will be on tournament. P.S. I'll also get 70 more ghouls from my friend for patrol summoning, might include some more in list itself

You already separated it by implying that there will be close to no screen in your "random game setting". To answer your question about what armies can throw away 1 big unit of chaff, or multiple small units: mixed skaven, fyreslayers, death, FEC, bonesplitters, Free Guild, slaanesh, seraphon, DOK and that's only armies that will guaranteed have enough models in every list. It IS a big deal, BUT it IS easily countered, at least 1st turn, then, by saying that "oh, SCE will shot you whille you turtle" you are separating it even more. Surecharge is scary as hell, but you can't say it bypasses screen like it's not there.

I have a hard time imagining how you can bypass a screen when facing even semi-compitent opponent with at least 30 semi-disspossable models in their army. It is basicly a 60" WALL of no-go. If I were to face a stormcast with surecharge I would do exactly that - build a stupidly cheap wall of whatever available and countercharge my opponent when he wipes it out

Is it possible to 3" electricute those prime targets over the screen or is the bubble wrap too big?

Past what exactly you can charge with 6+2d6? Any 10 models unit on 25mm bases will be unpasseble. It's never going to be enough, considering you have to charge 9" to even get into combat with screening unit.

Get the ones per game artefact that makes unit untargetable in shooting phase then

I saw the photos of your army and wondered where are the rest of it, now when I saw 6 CP it all makes sence)

I would probably go with fulminators and LCoD, because Fulminators have a natural 2+ reroling 1s save against shooting, so you buffing them won't be vital, and Celestant because he will have same 2+ rerolling 1s thanks to the staunch. You should try and hunt down his heroes who go too close to objectives with ballista and maybe spells, make skinks run away from fulminators and hold one of the objectives with LCoD

However, with that list being 40 points under 1000 and no particulary usefull endless spells here (Maybe pendulum to swing over one of the objectives?) I think you can also try to fight through enemy army with lord celestant (axe/tempestos + pack leader) + fulminator's charge, trying to cripple him as much as you can and then running down his heroes, but that is risky IMO (and I like it) Allegiance: Stormcast EternalsLeadersLord-Celestant On Dracoth (220)- Tempestos Hammer & ThundershieldLord-Castellant (100)Knight-Incantor (140)Battleline5 x Liberators (100)- Warhammers5 x Liberators (100)- WarhammersUnits5 x Decimators (200)War MachinesCelestar Ballista (100)Total: 960 / 2000Extra Command Points: 20Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 60 P.S. Don't mind weapon options, I wasn't changing those

Cannot agree more on choosing Lightning hammer over Tempestos, just feels more reliable, Tempestos sometimes being too spiky is not really worth more potential damage

Hmmm, I wasn't overthinking it so adviced something that is mine go-to 1000pts list I feel like being very balanced If you want to have more chances against shooting - you can't go wrong with mirror shield. Also decimators are quite devastating when they go close and personal with anything that have one wound and low saves, so I would recommend those, instead of dracots. And for shooting to scare out enemy hero from sitting on objective I would swap 5 liberators for ballista, unless there will be bastilladon - nothing in seraphon army will be comfortable under -2 rend bolt shower

I would rather not use LCoD on 1000pts He might be good, but too expensive for my taste, I usually take 10 libs, 5 juds, relictor with translocation, castellant and go from there. Also I played something similar two weekends before against mostly skryre skaven army and going to battle without shooting felt terrible

Ballista drop seems to be as good as you can get when dealing with Nagash, try to hold out until you know where he is placed, before doing your ballistas, It might be better to safely shoot him at 30" distance with double shooting from Anvils than droping in, if he will have first turn and ability to make 18" scion deny zone. And if not sure - split it up with 1 ballista on the table, to have a of crippling him turn 1 and 2 ballistas in reserve

You always roll all your preventive abilities

I was just being funny, that's all Also they aren't the only ones who don't need to roll. SCE have Evocator's arch lightnings and Paladin's SS Maces and many other ways to deal MW without hit rolls. Also there is offensive magic, prayers and other stuff. GF Charm is by far not the best artefact, it's just great on 4+ monsters and foot characters who does not heve better defence options For monters with 3+ it will be Etherial amulet which is insane and it's introduction is one big mistake. For SCE Star Drake Ignax's Scales is the best, because of the best saves in the game And that was only defensive options, somebody might even throw out defence and go offence with blade of judgement, runeblade (as well as it's ulgu collegue) and ghyrstrike. It might be the best defence option for FEC, not the best realm artefact

Skaven Skryre Warpfire Throwers & Warp Lightning Cannon crews: <Hold my beer> :D

Fair enough, still taking any named character makes it much better.