Overread

What is this "playing the game" of which you speak? And, well, this is the rumours thread, a mole on the inside would be able to feed us rumours for this thread That's the idea of a mole, or we could upgrade to a spy as the perks are better! Still we've got the GW open day coming up with some news we can expect and we've got Skirmish that we know of plus Moonclan - the only thing sitting in rumours is if we see anything more done with Slaanesh in the early part of the year or not

What we need is a mole! Someone in the inside to feed us rumours!

Morathi shouldn't be negotiating whilst in snake form - typically that's her enraged and out of control form That said "dance" might be a term that the Masque can interpret. For example it doesn't have to be a physical dance does it - a dance of words, thoughts, themes etc.... Maybe it can subtle dance so that little sways and flicks of a hand - what might be just casual normal motions to some, can be a woven complex subtle dance for it.

I think this is because we as a fans have yet to really establish a sense of what the realms are. Furthermore GW has been somewhat useless in giving us a proper timeline, dates and, importantly, detailed maps of every region. A lot of the lore we currently have is spread over quite span of time. We've got the Realmgate Wars where Sigmar is only just appearing; then we've got stories like Heart of Winter where there cities that have been recovered, rebuilt and been running for at least two or three generations along with extensive trade networks forming. To me that says at least several generations and 100 or more years since the Realmgate War. So I think that has the greater effect. It's not so much size its the lack of ability to place things in relativity to each other in time and space. I think that iwll only come to be once the Lore settles down and once GW gives us a proper time-line of events and slows the pace down so that we are dealing with a tangible span of time. Right now we are dealing with spans of time where most humans are going to be alive in one story and then grandfathers in the next and then dead and buried for generations in the next. The Old World dealt with a much smaller span of time which meant that places like Karak Eight Peaks could establish themselves with a history and we could appreciate the gravity of major events unfolding becauase we could see how they'd have knock on effects on other things. Right now we've got huge cities that are essentially unknown. We can't tell if they are a major powerhouse; a blip; a central seat of power etc... So we can't appreciate the gravity of their loss or conquest or of the shifting political stances. Part of it is that GW has shifted from a more mortal driven story to a more god driven one; where mortals feature but only in short adventures whilst the main story plays out to the gods - who transcend time. That Chaos, Sigmar and Death are the primary factions makes sense for this because they all have means to keep their "humanoid" heroes alive long beyond when a Free People hero would be dead and buried.

I think the main issue with returning characters is that the AoS realms are supposed to be several thousand years old already. One issue with it finding its own identity is that GW did its discovery, age of grand building and then fall into Chaos and the Chaos age all in a handful of lore pages. For characters who once were living within quite a short timer period in the Old World they now have to have reasons to have survived and hidden for several thousand years - that's a huge span of time. A few have managed by becoming godlike or gods. Others might appear from trapped souls within Slaanesh. But the Gotrik trick can only be done a few times before it feel weak. That and I think that the new age hasn't got as many estabilshed heroes of its own yet. That should come with time though and I'd wager many of the old heroes might appear now then fall into the backgorund once more.

True but my overall impression is that in most areas AoS is doing better since 2.0 by a large margin.

It's not about making this a "them and us" situation with regard to fantasy and AoS fans - esp as the two are often the same person. It's simply appreciating that AoS isn't a brand new game with brand new models only. Plus nothing stop GW using existing sculpts and then upgrading them later. Also lets not be forgetful - the launch of AoS was a vast slap in the face to any fantasy fan from GW of old. Heck the launch of AoS was a total mess; there were no rules save for some daft ones and GWS management attitude was that they were just going to make cool models. It's no wonder that there was a lot of hostility early on. That has eased off a lot and barring a few, I'd say its at a time now wher AoS isn't a dirty word. In fact the greatest call I hear is that we want MORE AoS. We want more models and more battletomes and more rules- we want more from GW in the AoS line.

Except GW has gone out of their way to preserve a lot of old world models and even elements of its lore. Excluding the cuts at launch - which we must accept was a different AoS in terms of product - they've not cut much else since. Daughters of Khaine, Beasts of Chaos, Skaven - all of those use old models not just as few fringes but as the core of the army. Heck some, such as Scourge Privateers* have had whole Novellas dedicated to them in the BL publications and you can bet that GW doesn't invest money into writing lore about things they are going to remove from the game. Yes a lot of older sculpts are showing their age, but I'd wager we are more likely to see GW use those old scupts and ugprade them to more "AoS style" rather than retire them utterly. AoS is its own thing but its built right off the back of fantasy and I think that GW knows that alienating that market segment more than they already are with more major model and line cuts isn't the way forward. *They are even still sailing around in vast Black Arks.

GW did a rough clean up of factions without Battletomes to make the game more easily understood on the store front side of things. It's normal for now, even a lot of the Aelves are all grouped together. Most fully expect that as GW rolls out more Battletomes some of the now gathered forces will split out again into their own distinct factions. Which ones and how they divide up is, just as before this change, totally unknown.

On the Marvel comment don't forget that was an entirely different product and market. AoS needs a faster turn over at least of battletomes for currently released armies. The product is already on the shelf it just can't, as easily, be used nor marketed. It means money is sitting there ready for selling and isn't selling. Plus the confusion it creates reduces appeal and uptake potential of the game. AoS is selling strong; take away the confusion and bring in more Battletomes and you increase sales potential; increase actual sales and uptake of the game and likely recruit more old-world fans into the title as you make it more inclusive of those armies who alreadyhave models in peoples collections. Those people are thus more likely to buy more and buy into the new game and also to be there to be opponents and guides to new gamers picking up the game for the first time. So its a win-win for GW and there's no real reason for them to want to delay Battletomes intentionally. Totally new armies they likely will stagger just to fit them into production lineups and so as not to swamp their own market too fast with too many new models. But also because releasing a halfdozen new models is a big and expensive undertaking.

A big Slaanesh release doesn't have to coincide with a big story event, that can be totally separate. I think the other thing to remember is that AoS needs a lot of attention and really it needs all its armies to be Battletomed up before 3.0. Otherwise GW is leaving too much inventory sitting on shelves doing nothing; its leaving confusion in its market for no reason and by the time a 3.0 comes out older battletomes from the 1.0 edition are really going to be showing their age. They need to do what they'v done with 40K and get their armies supported across the whole range. Even if it means we dont' get any "new" armies this year it would at least make their range functional for what they have got out. That not only means more of their models will sell (good for them) but it means when we introduce new people to AoS its really easy for them to get into it and they can see what armies are on offer and what Battletomes to get. dont' forget many of us are already casually aware of things like the old Dark Elves and High Elves model lines so the alliance blocks we have within Grand Alliances make sense to us and we can easily see what fits where. Newbies won't have that benefit and it will confuse them why there are models for armies that appear to sort of be an army but are not. Take Darkling Covens, they've got army rules in the Generals Handbook, but right now are not listed as their own force on the GW store. Are they coming as their own army, are they being downsized, forgotten, dropped, replaced etc... For a newbie those are important questions - esp if they want to play with those rank and file troops and sorceresses upon dragons.

We already know - Moonclan. They got hinted at several times and its the most likely next big release for AoS with a Battletome. I would wager that they might come also with Endless Spells and there might be some new models, but that latter point is hard to be certain off. I'm reasonably sure each Battletome we now see will come with Endless Spells. After Moonclan its anyone's guess. There were a lot of hopeful guesses that we'd see a big Slaanesh release in the early part of the year, same as GW has done for the other 3 Chaos gods. Slaanesh is really lagging in both 40K and AoS in terms of updated models, new models and in AoS, a Battletome. That we are seeing the new Khorn VS Slaanesh kit speaks strongly of an approaching Slaanesh update - same as how GW has done for the other armies after a duel boxed set. Necrons and Ad Mech both got new Codex around their joint boxed set. Spacewolves and Genestealer Cultists both have - although for some reason GW has been rather slow at getting the Cultists out (however they ARE the next Codex release for 40K). So Moonclan next for near Certain Slaanesh strong possibility After that its anyone's guess.

its a skill that we learned back in the dark days when GW never spoke to us save through divine literature published but once a month and often after major events. In those dark days we had to read into any sign that would come forth from them; any little hint as to what the future might hold for us. Armies would shudder in fear as each portent could foretell of their impending doom!

I'd wager yes, I figure whoever did the classifications works on the website but isn't a gamer and likely missed that Pestilens has their own Battletome. Of course GW could change it if they wished, but I'd not read into it on the website at yet.

Audvin if you're looking at the store page its mostly just organising some of the currently battletomefree factions into groupings to make the store page easier to navigate and less of a confusing mess.

To clarify Wrath and Rapture is currently being shown as pre-order preview so it will go on pre-order next weekend (15th) and we expect general sale a week later (22nd). Though GW could surprise us and release it earlier and have a shorter pre-release period.

That is a lovely looking army and I really like the powerful tones you've got on the deer riders! Good luck selling and hope someone can pick the whole force up and put them back to battle upon the tabletop once more.

@Nos yes but when your once functional army is fractured and the only thing stopping it working once more as it used too is just GW putting two or three miniarmies together again then it can be frustrating to players. Esp if one or two of those mini armies are basically not functional as an army. Anyway that aside GW have dropped one of their hobby news posts but nothing about hints for next weeks pre-orders! Which might mean that we aren't getting any! Or that something else is happening. It might just be the news is late as I would have expected GW to give some "here's the last for the year have fun see you next year" post

I don't think it sets the stage, the more I look the more I think its just setting the stage for some, whilst with others its just a random grouping. I think its more just GW trying to make the game look more interesting rather than having lots of 1 or 2 model factions dotted around.

Well its probably not helped by the fact that most of the incomplete factions were complete functional factions until AoS launched. With wide rosters of units to rival the current count of Stormcast.

And Skaven Pestilens do and yet are lumped in with Skaven - there are clearly some inconsistencies

Moonclan don't have a Battletome so don't get their own tab. I'd wager we'll see that happen when GW launches them and they get their own Battletome.

Probably for the same reason all the Aelves are lumped together. GW is basically stripping all the "micro" factions into lumps. It makes sense as those micro factions likely don't sell well at present anyway and won't until they get a battletome. It cuts down on a lot of confusion for new people more or less and at least makes the game range look smaller, tighter and more organised. We can expect to see them branch out and split off things as they tackle them As for the Ironweld they'd been lumped into a general collection of Free Cities mech weapons for a long time now. GW just hasn't actually dealt with Ironweld and Battletomed them (or whatever they plan to do) so there are still loads of changes to come. I'm surprised that factions like Dark Covens are not listed on their own as they do have a dedicated army page in the Generals Handbook. But I guess the instructions to the tech were "anything that hasn't got a battletome just dump them roughly together sort of". Although interestingly Skaven got all lumped into one group

Mostly everyone thinks it will now go on pre-order on the 16th with a release on the 23rd. Which is very odd timing if it does. I think GW will likely put it on pre-release on the 16th but on sale earlier in the week such as on the 19th. The other option is that it goes on pre-order early as well. There is still time, but its surprising that its coming so late and so near to Christmas - GW must be running all cylinders like mad this year!

OH GODS YES! GW reorganising the listings is fantastic news! No seriously it is! Just think now we know what battletomes are coming and what's going to happen to a lot of fringe factions - oooh this is a joyous day indeed. Esp since now its going to be even easier to get people into AoS! Although they lumped all the spare Aelves into one block