Aginor's mixed rules questions

[Aginor]

Hey y'all!

Unfortunately I couldn't determine whether y'all prefer one thread per question or threads with multiple questions, so I'll stick with this thread for now. Please tell me if I should do it the other way.

Oh and please guys and gals, don't let the size of this post put you off. Just answer one or two questions if you like and return at a later time. I understand that even for veterans like y'all 20 questions at a time are probably a bit much.

So here they come. I have numbered them for your convenience:

1. A Skink Starpriest can buff units with his his Serpent Staff, so they gain the chance to double damage with their bite or jaws. This seems to not only affect Skinks or Saurus, so it is right to assume that it will
a  buff the Troglodon's "Venomous Bite" to a damage of 4 (if he makes the roll of course)?
b  affect both the Saurus Knight's "shield and jaws" attack AND his Cold One's "vicious bite" attack?
c  NOT affect the Kroxigor's "Jaws like a Steel Trap" because that's a special ability, not a weapon, but will affect his normal "Vice-like Jaws" attack?
d  affect the Carnosaur's bite so it has the chance to deal 6 (SIX!) damage??
e affect basically everything that contains the words "jaws" or "bite" in its weapon name?

2. I think I read it in some FAQ but can't find it right now... Is a unit in range of itself? So, can an Oldblood on Carnosaur use its command ability on itself?
If yes: Combined with question 1 that would mean it could get seven attacks if I choose , each with a 1 in 6 chance to do six damage?

3. When I set up my Terradon Riders after having them hide in the clouds, using the Shadowstrike Starhost, do they get their normal movement after using the ability? On some Warscrolls that is clarified but I am not sure here.

4. If it is not stated on a Warscroll that an ability or spell needs line of sight, does that mean it doesn't?

5. Are melee units with a range of 1" really able to hit flying units? The highest "flying" Terradon model is on a 3.1" stick. That would mean when measuring from the model it would be immune to melee. So I just wanted to check if I missed something. To me it breaks immersion a bit. I understand that many units are not flying all the time but only fly in their movement phase, passing terrain, and then land. But Terradons, Griphons and the like, who really have wings and so on? Why should they be in melee range?
People in my store told me otherwise though (we do usually measure from the bases and those are in range of course), and I kinda agree it would probably make flying units imbalanced. But... I have a hard time with that rule.

6. Kinda related to question 5: A Skink Priest with a "Cloak of Feathers" can fly. Does that mean he always has line of sight for his staff in the shooting phase? Or is his flying only in the movement phase so he will check his LoS from the ground?

7. Also related to questions 5 and 6: When a unit can fly, can it charge over another unit (provided there is enough space to fit the base there) in the charge phase?

8. If an ability allows to "re-roll a single dice roll" (like the Skink Chief's "marked for greatness" ability), does that mean I can re-roll just one dice of a 2d6 roll, or do those two dice count as one dice roll?

9. Kinda related to question 8:  Can an insight from the Skink Starseer used to re-roll the roll for number of attacks a Bastiladon or Razordon makes?

10. also about re-rolling: Imagine a Skink Chief near an Astrolith Bearer. Will he be able to re-roll the hit roll for his blowpipe twice?

11. also about re-rolling: A Scar Veteran on Cold One's command ability allows to re-roll hit rolls of 1. Does that mean if he is near my Astrolith bearer I would first re-roll all missed attacks and those that THEN show ones will be be re-rolled again? Or is the sequence of re-rolls defined in some way?

12. also about re-rolling:  What if my opponent played Lord Kroak or another unit with a similar ability that can alter opponents' dice rolls? Which one would be the last?

13.  Do bravery bonuses/maluses stack? Example: I have a Troglodon (-2 to bravery) and a Saurus Knights' unit with a banner (-1 to bravery) both in range of my opponent's Orruks. Will they now have REALLY bad bravery of 3 or so?

14. Musicians and standard bearers: Do they (invisibly) carry their normal weapons? It seems so. But wouldn't that mean the ideal tactic would be to maximize those (which would be kinda silly IMO)? From the kit I could build 10 Saurus Warriors, of which 1 is a drummer and two are standard bearers. If I have enough kits and field a small unit mixed from them everyone would be either a drummer or a standard bearer!?

15. In a unit I can often choose a leader, called "alpha" or so in many cases. When he doesn't carry a special weapon (or even if he does, see question 14) can he also be a standard bearer or drummer?

16. If I have an Astrolith bearer and a Balewind Vortex, do those range bonuses stack, and if yes: In which order? addition before multiplication or vice versa? To me it feels imbalanced to have 52 (or 44 depending on how you do the math) range on an arcane bolt and great line of sight. My wizard becomes melee-immune artillery that way! But then the Balewind Vortex makes the wizard immobile and it is pretty expensive at 100 points...

17. If a Slann is on the Balewind Vortex and uses a Troglodon to cast through, does the extended range bonus apply
- not at all
- measured from the Troglodon
- the range between the Slann and the Troglodon?

18. Same question as 17, but with the range bonus from an Astrolith Bearer instead the multiplier from the Vortex.

19. I understand if one of my units is hit, it is me who determines the killed models. So imagine the following situation:
- I have 30 Skinks on the table, ordered in a rectangle of 10x3 Skinks.
- My opponent wins the initiative, charges my Skink line from the (shorter) side. So he is in range for just three of them.
- He causes three wounds, I allocate the wounds to the models closest to him. They die.
- My turn starts. In the hero phase I use an Oldblood's command ability to move each Skink except one (the one farthest away from the enemy) three inches, thus out of melee range.
- In my movement phase I use my movement of 8 to get away as far as I can.
--> So I can move ~12" away doing this? Or am I missing something?

20. Similar to question 19, trying to understand the "Wary Fighters" ability better:
- My opponent wins the initiative, charges my Skink line and does some damage. I allocate the wounds to a few of the models closest to him. They die. But I still have some in less than 1" from his models.
- Still in my opponents' combat phase, now I can attack with one unit, I choose the Skinks, pile in closing the gaps, and attack. I maybe even do a few wounds.
- Now my turn starts. I choose the Skinks first. I would get another pile in now, right? So I can now choose to not attack but use "Wary fighters" to pull 8" back, thus denying my opponent an attack with that unit.
- If I now win the initiative: I move further back, ending up to 16" away. This does NOT count as retreating so I can shoot him. On his turn he may now try to charge me, but he might not make it.
- If he wins initiative he just charges me and this whole thing begins again.
--> is that approximately right?

Thanks in advance!

[KHHaunts]

Proberbly not that many people would attempt to answer all of them if you post them in this way and you may find yourself having to piece it together.Aslo i cant remember every bit of Faq so ill go by what i know and other can correct if ive misses something.

here goes . . . .

 

1 your interpretation would seem to be correct. Their is no further requirements for the ability so its safe to assume you can.

2. I cant remember if it say in the FAQ about using command abilites on yourself but:

you are in range of yourself

and unless its faqd the rules dont say you cant use it on yourself unless its stated in the ability.

3. i dont have acess to the battalion. If they are summoned then the cannot move. However unless it states otherwise in the abilityi would assume you can.

4. In the rules its saysnothing about line of sight but does bother to mention it in the rules for Arcane bolt and Mystic shield as well as many other spells. Therefore as far as the rules go you are right to target units out of sight unless the spells states otherwise.

5 Obviously playing base to base eliminates this rules however as far as base rules go (and i belive i read it in an faq) then no you cant hit a model out of range. This makes sense fluff wise but i would imagine that in most cases this would be a talk to your opponent moment. I would a gree that while fluffy its a little broken in some ways however it also means that stuff that flies potentially cant reach things on the ground either.

6. Going by the model. a unit that can fly can is only flying when it is moving. and must then land again or "hover" if its model is in flight already therefore when you measure LOC its always based on what the minatures actual position.

7.Yes providing unit cohernecy is maintained and all other requirements are fulfilled then yes you can. I do it quite alot with my hexwraiths to get their little "bombing attack"

8. If you look youll see it actually says " A single dice" not "a single dice roll. Therefore its one dice only per phase.

9.It says "any single dice" unless the dice roll is already a reroll (You cannot re roll twice) then you can roll any dice roll before the next hero phase ( I might be wrong but it may have been faqd somewhere that initiative rerolls arent allowed but check on that one)

10. You canr re roll a dice if its been re rolled already.(in the rules

11.Same again you cant re roll a dice more than once.

12.For Kroaks ability its a re roll . . . . . the same again. cant re roll a re roll. Forsomeone like Karios fateweaver however thats not a reroll so should be able to re roll unless its been faqd (However any with any sense would wait until you have re rolled before alterin the dice)

13.Yes there is no reason to say they wouldnt.

14. Firstly yes they do have their weapons unless stated otherwise in the warscroll. And secondly it dosent matter how many versions of that model you have you can only have one muscian and banner bearer (Unless the warscroll specifies otherwise) so your entire unit could consist of banner bearers it would make no difference as you decide who dies in the unit when wounds are allocated. However if i was your opponent and you did that i would ask that you specifiy your actuall banner bearer.

15.I dont belive you can as a leader is a seperate thing. However im not sure why you would do this as it wouldnt have any benfit to you

16. Im not an expert on the "Balewind vortex issue" but as far as i can see there reason why these cant stack. They would count in the order they are activated. (I would perhaps check up on this as balewinds were/are a hot topic for debate)

17. again there is nothing to say that you couldnt do this.

18. Same as above

19. As an ability this would not count as a retreat so as long as you are more than 3" away from the enemy unit then you can move as normal.

20. As far as i can tell. Yes

 

phew

Alot of this is in the rules. If it hasent been Faq's carefully read the rules and warscrolls. If it dosent say you cant then technically you can. Just be aware of some un faq's rule issues that you may want to discuss with your opponent.

 

[KHHaunts]

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[Aginor]

First of all: Thank you very much, @KHHaunts!
You answered all 20, and also made some principles more clear to me so I probably will have it easier to answer such questions myself in the future.

Those are all of the questions I have gathered over the last few months, since I could solve some of my other problems with the rules by looking up the English rules instead of the (IMO badly translated) german ones, or by just searching the web and the FAQs.
But for those above I wanted to make sure they are exactly my problem, many discussions on the web talk about those topics either before the FAQs, before the GHB release, or with a slightly different situation to talk about. And of course I am sure I have missed some stuff in the FAQs and the rules, it is a lot to read if you are new to the game and even have to look up basic stuff from time to time.

 

about Q9: Yes, I think I remember reading somewhere that the initiative turn was NOT alterable. I read it differently somewhere else (might have been 1d4chan) but also a discussion in one other web forum that agreed with you. I just looked up the Order FAQ v.1.1 and it is not in there it seems, and the rule says "any single dice before your next hero phase".  So hmmm... I am not sure. The Starseer and Kroak are pretty powerful. Initiative is a big deal though.

 

about Q14: I was thinking along these lines:
Saurus Knights Warscroll, Stardrake Icon, says:

Quote

Models in this unit may carry terrifying stardrake icons. If a battleshock test is made for an enemy unit within 5" of any stardrake icons, add 1 to the result

So to me it reads as if
- more than one model can carry a stardrake icon
- the distance is measured to the model(s) with the icon. So if I have a unit of 10 Knights with one standard bearer, and the standard bearer is on one side then an enemy unit that fights my unit may actually be out of range. Maybe it should actually be "If a battleshock test is made for an enemy unit within 5" of a unit carrying any stardrake icons, add 1 to the result"

 

about Q15: The only - minor - benefit could be that if everyone in a unit of Saurus Knights dies, except one model (the leader of course) then he could still be the standard bearer, lowering battleshock for all units around him. But I tend to agree that leader and standard bearer in one person are probably not allowed.

 

and one additional question, Q21: What about abilities that ALTER rolls (adding or substracting one)? Can I apply those after a re-roll?

 

So, anyone, further remarks, corrections or explanations are of course welcome, but for now I am happy that most stuff is already cleared up.

[KHHaunts]

First of all your welcome.

I assume i win a prize for answering all 20 first???

first of all be careful with 1d4chan as quite as ive noticed that quite alot if it is out of date now as peoplehave started editing it less now that most things have been filled.

 

As for

Q14: I see what your getting at. And certainly an argument could be made.However. Firstly if you have a look at the majority of other warscrolls it says the same however makes the point at the end that the effect is 1 per unit (although it could be more direct i grant you) and while i am a beliver in playing the rules as they are written and not altering them without discussion because "you dont like that rule" is wrong. I would say that i could make the same argument for the skeleton warriors banner as it says MODELS as well. and of course D6 models for each banner if the whole unit had banners without any additional cost is just down right insane so i would apply the same logic.

However in an attempt to interpret the wording in a way that i belive it was intended:

"if a battleshock test is made for an enemy unit within 5"of any stardrake icons ad 1 to the result"

I would say the within 5" of "any" icons bit would imply that you add 1 to the result regardless of the number of the icons.

That being said one advantage you could take that appears legal is by taking multiple icons you can extend the range that this ability covers as it would b 5" from any of the models in your unit (if they all had icons) even if it dosent stack (As most banners dont usually have a range that applies to toher units)

I would remember though that despite you being technically correct you my find some players scowling at you if you pull that one on them without a prior discussion like we are having. Id be fine though.

 

Q15: again as a new game there is still elements of interpretation which i am hoping the will correct one day.

 

 

Q21. That was my reference about Karios on Q12. It just says alter any dice roll. The rules state that you can never re roll a dice more than once. However "altering" a result isent rolling therefore its perfectly legal imo

 

Glad to help.

[Aginor]

Yes, you get a prize! That was pretty impressive! 
 

Q14:  I definitely agree they don't stack, and I also think it would be weird to bring more than one. I mainly wondered about the range and whether it could be beneficial to bring two for larger units. I think I'd also scowl at someone playing five in a unit (although it would look awesome! )

Q15: It is a minor one and I think it is hardly exploitable, so I think it doesn't matter much. Perhaps in the future they'll add a word or two to the scroll to make it more clear.

Q21: I think I didn't understand your earlier post fully because I hadn't looked up the scroll yet and don't know Kairos. So yeah I agree.

[Nico]

Quote

If I have an Astrolith bearer and a Balewind Vortex, do those range bonuses stack, and if yes: In which order? addition before multiplication or vice versa? To me it feels imbalanced to have 52 (or 44 depending on how you do the math) range on an arcane bolt and great line of sight. My wizard becomes melee-immune artillery that way! But then the Balewind Vortex makes the wizard immobile and it is pretty expensive at 100 points...

Yes they do stack. They stack in the order in which you use the abilities. So you're better off adding the 8 and then doubling the total. You're paying 100 points for the privilege and you may well fail the cast roll of 7 (which is far from trivial).

[Aginor]

Thank you, @Nico

At least it is a six with my Astrolith Bearer near, but you are right. It is not trivial.

My Orruk playing friend calls it cheese though, since he has no ranged attacks and we both know it. :-D

BTW was there a final clarification on whether the guy on top of the Balewind Vortex really cannot be charged? I read several discussions on that over the lasr few months but each of those left me only more confused. My gut says no. So only flying units and spells and ranged attacks can reach it.