Cloak of mists and shadows. Does this count as having retreated if within 3" of an enemy?

[Southern trolls]

[rokapoke]

Definitely can't see the image. Which unit is this?

[Southern trolls]

Sorry the image isn't working. Basically asking if at the start of the hero phase I'm in combat, when I use cloak of mists and shadows and charge later on? Retreat states at the start of the movement phase, and this is done in the hero phase that's why I ask. 

[Andreas]

Yes

I think there are some FAQ somewhere maybe someone can find it but in general I believe that if you leave the combat it counts as a retreat.

[Squirrelmaster]

I would say no. Using the cloak isn't "moving"; The model is removed from the battlefield then set up again.

[Andreas]

I see ☺️ so this the whole moving without moving discussion again when a move is a set up, that has not been resolved yet. It's probably going to be in the next FAQ. I am fine if it is ruled either way but I am more in the "if it quacks like a duck"-camp so that is my prediction for how it is going to be ruled. But I could be wrong and I am out of this discussion until then.

[Nico]

It's a 100% set up rule, so you aren't retreating. Same as Vexilloring out of combat (contrast with Destruction Move Rampaging Destroyers, which is a retreat).

[Nico]

It depends on whether it's a set up or not.

[rokapoke]

It depends on if you start the movement phase within 3" of the enemy. Heinrich Kemmler's ability takes place in the hero phase, so I'd say it's not a retreat. 

[Squirrelmaster]

For those who can't read the pic, the wording is:

Quote

remove the model from the battlefield, and set it up again up to 12" away from its original location, and more than 3" away from any enemy models

 

[Andreas]

9 hours ago, rokapoke said:

It depends on if you start the movement phase within 3" of the enemy. Heinrich Kemmler's ability takes place in the hero phase, so I'd say it's not a retreat. 

No there are plenty of movement shenanigans in the Hero phase that counts as a retreat for example the destruction move. It depends if this is to be considered a move at all. Is it a move if the model is moving or is it a move only if it is stated as such.

[rokapoke]

2 hours ago, Andreas said:

No there are plenty of movement shenanigans in the Hero phase that counts as a retreat for example the destruction move. It depends if this is to be considered a move at all. Is it a move if the model is moving or is it a move only if it is stated as such.

This action doesn't reference "as if it was the movement phase," which is why it doesn't carry the same restrictions as such a move (e.g., retreating). 

[Dan.Ford]

No FAQ required it not a move .

"move" is not even in the description.

The model is removed and then set up 3" away.